indicator stop bath

[monochromeFan]

Is there any logical reason to think that an indicator stop bath like Ilford ilfostop will cause any staining issues?

Also on ilfostop, bh photo video makes this statement on it,

A full working strength solution will produce 150 135-36 or 120 films or 600 20.3x25.4cm (8x10") RC prints or 300 20.3x25.4cm (8x10") FB prints

ANYONE ever achieve that production run?

[Michael R]

No, the dye in Ilfostop (or Kodak Indicator Stop bath) will not stain photographic materials unless you misuse it. Follow the directions.

I have never needed to replace a stop bath in a printing session. Use Ilford’s capacity instructions and you will be fine. The only caveat is that a citric acid stop bath (Ilfostop) working solution will generally not store as well as acetic acid so don’t keep it longer than Ilford recommends (ie 7 days).

[paulbarden]

Is there any logical reason to think that an indicator stop bath like Ilford ilfostop will cause any staining issues?


No.

[Doremus Scudder]

Is there any logical reason to think that an indicator stop bath like Ilford ilfostop will cause any staining issues?
Also on ilfostop, bh photo video makes this statement on it: A full working strength solution will produce 150 135-36 or 120 films or 600 20.3x25.4cm (8x10") RC prints or 300 20.3x25.4cm (8x10") FB prints
ANYONE ever achieve that production run?

You should learn to be a bit more trusting. Why do you suspect that Ilford, a company that's been in business for decades, has a good reputation and is a leader in the industry, would sell you a stop bath that would stain your prints? And why should you doubt their capacity recommendations?

Furthermore, technical data sheets for all Ilford products are easily available from their website or by just Googling the product name. Here's the one for Ilfostop: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1865/product/669/

Best,

Doremus

[Tin Can]

I use Citric acid food grade

I can tell by touch when it needs replacement

[Michael R]

I use Citric acid food grade

I can tell by touch when it needs replacement

Yes that is basically as good a test as the dye colour change anyway.

[monochromeFan]

You should learn to be a bit more trusting. Why do you suspect that Ilford, a company that's been in business for decades, has a good reputation and is a leader in the industry, would sell you a stop bath that would stain your prints? And why should you doubt their capacity recommendations?

Furthermore, technical data sheets for all Ilford products are easily available from their website or by just Googling the product name. Here's the one for Ilfostop: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1865/product/669/

Best,

Doremus

im trusting to a point, but in the past i have gotten Ilford technical support email folks to admit to things about their 35mm film stock and even about dd-x developer that contradict the CURRENT printed material.

[Michael R]

im trusting to a point, but in the past i have gotten Ilford technical support email folks to admit to things about their 35mm film stock and even about dd-x developer that contradict the CURRENT printed material.

Stop baths are the simplest part of the process by far. An acidic environment stops the developer activity. That’s really all there is to it. Just follow Ilford’s directions and you’ll be fine. You have to be really, really bad at this to screw up with stop bath.

[monochromeFan]

I have to order film, stop bath, and fixer. I think ive settled on Ilford.

Mixed up a new liter of DD-X,,,, test rolls of delta 400 just playing in the yard with the zone system.. Accidentally used fixer instead of stop bath.. film still turned out great. Oddly, even considering the over exposing i was doing.. the negatives came out better then the last few rolls i shot.

I admit that some of the exposures i made were bad.... but some are so nice and crisp its not funny. But i have to admit the zone system may not work so well with a matrix/averaging TTL meter system.

[Drew Wiley]

The whole point of Indicator Stop Bath with its litmus dye is that it tells you when it's exhausted by the color change from yellow to purple. But I never use it to the point of exhaustion anyway. My reason for using it is to save me time from actually measuring the amount of dilution. I just mix it to a pale piss color for sake of my film development drum or tray, then toss it afterwards.

In terms of Ilford's own instructions, those are relative to their own films. Some EU films were/possibly still are, quite sensitive to too strong a concentration.

[monochromeFan]

The whole point of Indicator Stop Bath with its litmus dye is that it tells you when it's exhausted by the color change from yellow to purple. But I never use it to the point of exhaustion anyway. My reason for using it is to save me time from actually measuring the amount of dilution. I just mix it to a pale piss color for sake of my film development drum or tray, then toss it afterwards.

In terms of Ilford's own instructions, those are relative to their own films. Some EU films were/possibly still are, quite sensitive to too strong a concentration.

What dehydration level are you measuring by on the official government charts?

[Tin Can]

I mix PF5 with only Distilled water

I keep track of footage

Floating lids

Flotsum falls to bottom

2.5 gallon tanks

Double lids, no evaporation

[paulbarden]

im trusting to a point, but in the past i have gotten Ilford technical support email folks to admit to things about their 35mm film stock and even about dd-x developer that contradict the CURRENT printed material.

If all it takes is one or two data points for you to conclude that an entity like Hartman/Ilford is “not trustworthy”, then you’re going to have great difficulty trusting any information you receive. Is that the life you really want to live?
The trick is to question what you see, but not make sweeping assumptions about the results of an inquiry.

Light sensitive materials (and their associated chemistries) evolve over time, and new ways of approaching their usage emerge. Most media are fluid. So, it’s erroneous to assume technical matters are static, or approachable by only one avenue. Yes - even Ilford technicians have their own opinions! That should surprise you??

[jnantz]

Is there any logical reason to think that an indicator stop bath like Ilford ilfostop will cause any staining issues?

Also on ilfostop, bh photo video makes this statement on it,

A full working strength solution will produce 150 135-36 or 120 films or 600 20.3x25.4cm (8x10") RC prints or 300 20.3x25.4cm (8x10") FB prints

ANYONE ever achieve that production run?

don't bother with stop bath, just water rinse, it's not really that necessary. it's nothing to stress about.
I stopped using stop bath in 1988, was taught it was unnecessary by someone trained as a portrait photographer in the Great Depression ( I developed thousands of sheets of 5x7 film and thousands of prints all day long for her, never an issue ) ..
best part of photography is just sticking film in your camera exposing it, developing it, and printing it. if you really need stop bath just use plain white vinegar, cheep and easy and your darkroom will smell delicious like a sub shop. I think the sprint stop is vanilla scented so you're always hungry no matter what you will use .. if you use citric acid, it doubles - use as a veggie-wash to rinse off the round up and other delightful pesticides that love the wax layer on american produce ..
im not sure of the concentrations of CA you might use for stop or for veggie wash ( they probably aren't the same and there's probably some u toob video on that you can watch that explains it all )
bon appétit !

[Doremus Scudder]

... But i have to admit the zone system may not work so well with a matrix/averaging TTL meter system.

The Zone System works best with a spot meter for metering shadow values and with sheet film. With a sophisticated roll-film camera and matrix metering, I would approach exposure/development in a different way.

Trust your meter for all but contrastier-than-normal scenes. With the latter, add exposure (one or two stops, depending on how contrasty the scene is) to compensate for the meter's tendency to underexpose in these situations. That's it for exposure.

For development, keep good notes for a while and note the scenes that you photograph that are "normal" in SBR. Start with the manufacturer's recommended development time and tweak that so that your negatives from normal-contrast scenes print well at a middle contrast setting. That will give you room on either side for the contrasty and flat extremes. That's it for development.

When you get a view camera and start using sheet film and a spot meter, then you can really deal with the Zone System. Until then...

Best,

Doremus

[Jim Jones]

Yes, indeed! You can become your own best teacher if you make every roll of film and every sheet another lesson. NO ONE ELSE is in a position to do that for you.

[monochromeFan]

The Zone System works best with a spot meter for metering shadow values and with sheet film. With a sophisticated roll-film camera and matrix metering, I would approach exposure/development in a different way.

Trust your meter for all but contrastier-than-normal scenes. With the latter, add exposure (one or two stops, depending on how contrasty the scene is) to compensate for the meter's tendency to underexpose in these situations. That's it for exposure.

For development, keep good notes for a while and note the scenes that you photograph that are "normal" in SBR. Start with the manufacturer's recommended development time and tweak that so that your negatives from normal-contrast scenes print well at a middle contrast setting. That will give you room on either side for the contrasty and flat extremes. That's it for development.

When you get a view camera and start using sheet film and a spot meter, then you can really deal with the Zone System. Until then...

Best,

Doremus

I am seeing a big difference in the negartives. 1 camera is averaging meter only, 1 has option of spot or averaging meter, and other 2 have the nice sexy ftb spot meter system.

matrix metered negatives have massive changes when i adjusted, but the spot meter systems have definite changes between what the meter wants, and what using the zone system gives. And yes, fresh batteries make the cannon light meter needles bounce like a red squirrel on crack.