Wisner Update?

[Michael Kadillak]

Last update on the Wisner forum was the end of March. Anyone know if they made the "transition" and are going to be a bonefide camera maker in the future? Anyone know if they are in fact taking no-deposit orders and if they have a new price listing? With the upsurge in ULF interest I was curious if they are in a position to sequested some of the incremental demand.

Cheers!

[Ted Harris]

Just for kicks I called both the numbers on his website ..... disconnected. I have also been told that Ron is not answering his cell phone but that is second hand. He had a workshop scheduled for May 7 - 12, anyone know if that happened?

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Who really cares Michael, I bought the 12x20 P that William had on E bay and I am sad to report that the camera is worse than my old Korona at 3 times the price. While the camera is fitted very well and has a beautiful varnish, small details render the camera very unstable making it a PITA to use.

PS. Thanks to all who have inquired about my health. I am doing so so, the chemo and radiation treatments coupled with having to be in Mexico City make for a brutal combination which leave me completely drained by the end of the week. Anyhow, I am in my second week of treatment and fourth chemo and still hanging in there..... :)

[Ted Harris]

Jorge, keep hangin in there ...... nuthin much else to say!!!

[Capocheny]

Jorge,

Good to see you back... take it easy and know that people are praying for your speedy recovery!

All the best! :)

Cheers

[Michael Kadillak]

I have had my problems with fit and finish as well Jorge (thanks to Jeff Wheeler at Quality Camera for taking care of the situation - a class act for sure). THe post was mostly a point of reference and nothing more. Sometimes folks ask you about "options" about ULF products and I would just like to be able to respond with the factual information and not guessing.

We all hope that you have a speedy recovery Jorge. Great to hear from you.

Cheers!

[Steve Hamley]

Jorge,

Best wishes and good luck.

What are the small details that make the Wisner use difficult? I have a "opportunity" to trade a Korona 8x20 on a Wisner. I was leery before and even more so now, especially since the Korona is in good shape and works well.

Steve

[Robert Skeoch]

Nice to hear from you Jorge... sorry the Wisner didn't work out as planned.
-Rob Skeoch

[Ted Harris]

To reply to Steve ... "what makes a Wisner so difficult ...." The problem has always been a lack of quality control and thorough final inspection before a plant left their shop. When a Wisner camera is made right it is a thing of beauty both in terms of its looks and performance. Unfortunately, that is far from always the case. Cosmetic issues aside (and there are plenty of them) a good example is the focusing track which, on any wood field, often needs some final fine tuning and sometimes a bit of shimming to work smoothly ... a bit of final attention that is frequently sadly lacking on Wisner cameras. It is difficult to say how many of the cameras that actually leave (more accurately left since none have been made on more than a year now) the shop have this or other problems. Can tell you this, just the other day Richard Ritter and I were talking about this issue and Richard noted that he sees far more Wisner cameras in need of 'tuning' and repair than he sees of any other single brand.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Steve, in my case the two big problems are tripod hole placement and support for the back standard. In the case of the tripod hole, with exception of the SS210 XL, most lenses that cover 12x20 are above 355 mm. So you rack out the front standard and more than 2/3 of the camera are sticking out there with a heavy lens on the front and no support. Since the bed is massive (something he did not need since the rigidity is more a matter of balance and physiscs) the front part of the bed that is sticking out usually moves with the slightest wind or movement.

In the case of the camera I bought from William, he asked Wisner to take off the back swing movements to save on weight. Well, Wisner should have told him that it was not a good idea since it reduces the support for the back standard. Of course Wisner did not and took off the two strip of brass that made the movement and gave support to the back standard. So, with this camera I can actually see the strip of wood that holds the back standard bow when the camera is open, not only that but when I introduce or remove the film holder I can see the strip yaw, IOW, the part where you remove the holder lifts up and twists forward! If the camera is kept like this, I expect the strip of wood to crack after heavy use.

These two are things that can be fixed, which I will as soon as I am feeling well, but for $4000 they should not exist. I imagine this is the reason Wisner went out of bussiness, not paying attention to small details that made his cameras a little above worthless when taking care of them would have made them exceptional cameras. In my case the camera is beautiful to look at and the movements are silky smooth, but you cannot use it to take pictures.......:rolleyes:

[Brian Ellis]

If Wisner is ever back in business making even a small line of cameras I'll be very surprised. Why? Because he said he'd be back in business making a small line of cameras.

[Steve Hamley]

Thanks Jorge!

I think I'll pass on the trade. Maybe a Canham that can do double duty as an 11x14...

Other than getting a good deal to try the format (which I did), I'd rather only buy once.

Steve

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

Thanks Jorge!

I think I'll pass on the trade. Maybe a Canham that can do double duty as an 11x14...

Other than getting a good deal to try the format (which I did), I'd rather only buy once.

Steve
Well Steve, if someone is willing to trade you a Wisner for a Korona there must be a reason....no?

[David_Senesac]

Last week some juvenile car clouters ripped off a couple of my expensive lenses on Wisner boards while I was in Yosemite Valley. Thus have been trying to contact Wisner via email in order to get a couple of lens boards. So far no response and of course I noticed the phone is disconnected. I'm guessing he is in such a financial squeeze due to business problems that he cannot provide service. Hope that changes of course. I haven't had any problems in the past getting parts and my Expedition has worked well for the past few years. ...David

[Steve Hamley]

David,

I think you can get lensboards from Richard Ritter.

Steve

[bruce terry]

FWIW Back in 98 Ron Wisner and his expert crew supplied me with an 8x10E which has worked perfectly in every respect since the day I first swung it open - no problems whatsoever with racking, excessive play, fit quality - anything.

Certainly it's fair to take shots at this man's ON-OFF business style - I personally had to wait four nervous months with MY money in HIS pocket before finally getting my camera - and forum comments re: business-dealings usually get my head nodding.

BUT broad-brushing Wisner quality as wanting might be just a bit sour-grapes since many Wisner users "out there" might say differently. I for one would like to hear some more comments concerning quality before I assume I was just lucky that while waiting for my camera to be built Ron Wisner found very a clean 9.5" Dagor and 19" Artar, mounted same to shutters and boards for a fair price, gave very helpful guidance in my move straight out of 35mm into full-sized LF for the first time. Was I lucky when camera and lenses arrived along with a broken ground glass and Wisner immediately overnited a replacement? I know it was luck that when TWO years later I requested a ground glass slide cover - expecting to pay for it - and they shipped a perfect-fit cherry slat for nothing. To sum-up, they were slow filling my order, managed to break some of it, and gave me something for nothing. Bad business I suppose, but good people, good intentions, good service and a fine product far as I'm concerned.

I'll bet none of us is perfect.

[Michael Kadillak]

Bruce:

I am glad that you have a reasonable experience with Ron. Hats off to you. Of my two experiences with the Wisner Camera Company using Quality Camera as an intermediary with NO down payment, one was fabulous and the other was less than optimal. However, the purpose of this post is not to re-hash old business practices however good or bad they may be.

I was simply wanting to ascertain if Wisner will be mentioned in a chapter of a history book on LF Camera makers or a reformulated player in a self imposed new game of specialty wooden camera making. As the owner of a Wisner ULF camera there is always an interest as it relates to service and parts however unlikely it is that one would every need these components.

Sounds as though nobody this year has been able to make arrangements for a new camera order so that pretty much answers my question.

Onward!

[John Z.]

You can also have lensboards for Wisner cameras made by S.K. Grimes, and they can be found on Ebay too.

[bruce terry]

Michael - Onward indeed with my (most likely) wooden footnote!!

[David_Senesac]

I just received a quick response from Ron Wisner from an email I sent yesterday. He related they could provide lens boards next week but that their bellows shop is not yet up and running as they are still working on the building construction. Thus response to customers will often be sluggish. In the mean time I've already contacted SK Grimes for lens boards. ...David

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you need a new bellows, Camera Bellows UK does such a fine job, quickly and at a fair price, that I'd probably use them even if Wisner's bellows shop was up and running.

[Michael Kadillak]

I agree with David about Camera Bellows. They made me a 50" 12x20 bellows out of the new synthetic material in a couple of weeks at a very reasonable price. Worksmanship was excellent and their customer service is equally top drawer.

If Wisner is still in the game, the lack of basic communication to the target audience is mystifying and contradicts the fundamental tenets of business practices even for a niche market. Makes it much easier for folks like Richard Ritter, Deardorf and Shen Hao to make incremental sales and develop relationships with new clients and that is a very good thing for all of us.

[Ted Harris]

Richard Ritter, BTW, nearly always has a stock of Wisner lensboards.

[Joseph O'Neil]

Lensboards - Harry's Pro Shop in Toronto still has a few Wisner lens boards on hand. I htink he had one or two used Wisner cameras for sale too.

No affiliation, just a happy customer of his. The last used lens I bought form him was in better condition than described.

joe

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I agree with David about Camera Bellows. They made me a 50" 12x20 bellows out of the new synthetic material in a couple of weeks at a very reasonable price. Worksmanship was excellent and their customer service is equally top drawer.

Drifting a bit from the original topic... But, I also have to agree with both David and Michael. Camera Bellows also made the bellows from my 7x17 Franken-ARCA. The completed product exceeded my requirements and the delivery time and service exceeded my expectations.

Kerry

[Barry Young]

Hang around a little longer, you will see many perfect people in these forums.






I'll bet none of us is perfect.

[Frank Petronio]

Maybe the forum should establish a stickie or a new category for "buying issues" and such, so that we can let newbies see the track record. Any forum regular who still purchases a Wisner does so with their eyes open. But pity the poor newb who falls for the hype and get's stuck with a $2000 camera that is no more usuable than a $200 Korona.

[Inverse]

Good idea Frank... I would like that, as a naive newbie..

[bruce terry]

Maybe the forum should establish a stickie or a new category for "buying issues" and such, so that we can let newbies see the track record. Any forum regular who still purchases a Wisner does so with their eyes open. But pity the poor newb who falls for the hype and get's stuck with a $2000 camera that is no more usuable than a $200 Korona.

Right on concerning sentences one and two. Three is cute but wrong, for such reasoning means my wife's old Olympus Stylus is more usable than my Leica....

....wait! hey! I take it back Frank....you're right!!

Ron Wisner is perhaps the ultimate example of What Goes Around Comes Around. As mentioned in an earlier post, I have been there, in that world of worry, eight years ago, waiting on an 8x10 Expedition, discovering the full price of my yet-to-be-constructed camera already on my creditcard without my OK. Regular and nervous phone calls to this 'fellow-sailor' were made over four months until the camera arrived, Ron always putting me at ease with his friendliness, considerable knowledge and considerable good intentions. Perhaps I was lucky, certainly was with the camera for it has been a dream to use and Frank, it even does a few things a $200 Korona can't do.

My failing is I can't live up to this camera!

Mr Wisner's failing is....HE can't live up to this camera! What a wonderful plate this superb technician and teacher is throwing away by being so secretive and contrary and snobbish, such a poor manager of business.

I REALLY didn't want to post, but this particular case is so sad and so unecessary and so begs comment. I for one pray the object of our complaint will miraculously be shocked into an amazing new, SERVICE-ORIENTED rebirth.

Hope springeth eternal, eh?

[Arthur Q]

I think you will find that there are 2 classes of consumers - those such as I who have bought a used Wisner ..) and find it to be a high quality example of domestic manufacturing, and those who have undergone the frustrations of dealing directly with the factory and Mr. Wisner. Regardless of the personal foibles of the owner, the product would appear to me (having owned Linhof, Sinar and Ebony 4x5's) to be equal to the competition. Unfortunately, it is clear that the Company and Mr. Wisner have a huge uphill battle to re-establish the goodwill that the brand (and Mr. Wisner personally) originally earned. Perhaps it is time for him to "fish or cut bait" and either get out of the business altogether, or hire someone more capable of meeting realistic time and quality goals for the current crop of cameras. There would appear to be no excuse, given the resurgence in demand for quality wooden large format cameras, for the response (or lack thereof) of the Company to deal with consumer complaints.