Help me make a decision... Sinar Norma or Toyo.

[jammo]

I need to lighten up a bit, not my mood though..

I own a Sinar Norma in 4x5,5x7 and an 8x10, all in great condition. I Recently got hold of a new Toyo 810MII with the intention of selling on the Norma 8x10. However, I am hesitating and hesitating. The Norma has been so good to use. The Toyo does have the advantage of being easier to use on the road, I assume as I have yet to try it, but the Norma is no slouch either.

To cut it short... Anyone used both and could comment on their experiences?

Thanks a lot.

[Lars Holte]

I have a Toyo 45A and would love to own a Toyo 810MII, but if you already have a full complement of Sinar Norma gear in three formats, I would have stuck with that if it were me. Changing brand will mean added costs such as the need for new lens boards. If you really need lighter gear, there are lighter options than Toyo 810M.

[MartyNL]

I have a Toyo 810M and I have monorail set-ups.
I keep both simply because I don't believe the one can replace the other.

So, unless you seriously need the money...

[CreationBear]

The Norma will always take up more space than the Toyo, but I doubt the later will give you much in the way of weight savings like, say, a Chamonix Alpinist would. As for ease/speed of set up, check out this hack from Neil Poulson:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?137209-Backpacking-a-Sinar-Norma-8x10-Camera

If you preposition the rail bushing on the 6” rail, it basically works like a QR system—just screw in a longer section of rail and pop the camera into the clamp. Also, while on the subject, it wouldn’t surprise me if the combination of a Sinar pan/tilt head and rail clamp would give you some weight/volume savings over the head that would be required for the Toyo….you might also get away with a lighter tripod than would be necessary for the folder as well, since the monorail lets you position the camera with optimal balance.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52217232332_2080f588f6_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nyfXXb)SONY DSC (https://flic.kr/p/2nyfXXb) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I built this 8x10 Norma (my second one) which I configured from pieces I recently acquired. An F Front Standard, and a Norma 8x10 Rear Standard. A great location combination. I got this idea when my Wife and I went to the Wexner Center at O.S.U. to see Annie Leibovitz's photos on exhibition. This camera was shown in a photo Annie snapped was a wall-sized B&W, of Richard Avedon's equipment closet. I thought it rather strange at the time, an F attached to a Norma. I think it will make a very good field camera. Shown with the 360mm Schneider Symmar in Norma Iris mount, and the Norma Shutter. So a 60's era speedy location camera. I've been using the camera in the studio and it's a winner.

[Neal Chaves]

I have a Toyo 45A and would love to own a Toyo 810MII, but if you already have a full complement of Sinar Norma gear in three formats, I would have stuck with that if it were me. Changing brand will mean added costs such as the need for new lens boards. If you really need lighter gear, there are lighter options than Toyo 810M.

There are no lighter options I know of that fold compactly, have full front movements, rear focus and a front standard robust enough to support large heavy lenses. Adapters are readily available to fit the Sinar shutter and lenses from the Norma.

[jammo]

Thanks for the replies. Daniel, why did you choose the F front over a Norma? I would have thought, though not having used an F, that the Norma front would be more solid?

And Lars, actually all I needed was a board adapter or two, so that was fine as far as lens boards are concerned.

Marty, its not the money as such, just a guilt feeling of owning two systems that can basically achieve the same. GAS reversed...

CreationBear, yes I considered doing that with a rail, I used to simply mount the front and rear standards on a short 6" rail without the head clamp and then remount on location, which was getting tedious when often changing locations on the same day. I would use a Linhof Levelling Pan/Tilt head which was originally for the Kardan, but can be used for other cameras with an available plate, and is only 1.5Kg so yes heavier than the Sinar head but still retains a very low profile. I must admit the Norma 8x10 seems lighter to carry than the Toyo, but as Neal wrote, the Toyo is one solid beast of a camera and would do all I need of it.

The thing is this Toyo is my first "unused" LF piece of equipment and if I do decide to pass it on then also as unused...

Thanks again for the feedback.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Daniel, why did you choose the F front over a Norma? I would have thought, though not having used an F, that the Norma front would be more solid?

I am curious to determine why AVEDON would use such a combination?? I know a local photographer who was an AVEDON assistant. He told me "He lived like a King. He could snap his fingers and obtain quickly whatever he desired". The answer for me, is, it's actually a great combination. I have Normas in all sizes here, there is something about this I like. So now I get it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51204469626_632107156a_h.jpg[/url]5x7 and 4x5 Sinar Norma TLR's (https://flic.kr/p/2m1LhTd) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

[Mark Sampson]

Since you have both cameras, try each on location and see which is easier to travel with and use in the field. I've never used a Toyo and my Sinar Norma is a 4x5, so i'm no expert- but actual use will give you your answer.

[jammo]

Since you have both cameras, try each on location and see which is easier to travel with and use in the field. I've never used a Toyo and my Sinar Norma is a 4x5, so i'm no expert- but actual use will give you your answer.

Of course, however the Toyo is still new and unused, and if I decide on keeping the Norma I'd like to sell the Toyo on as unused.. Thanks

[Serge S]

I am curious to determine why AVEDON would use such a combination?? I know a local photographer who was an AVEDON assistant. He told me "He lived like a King. He could snap his fingers and obtain quickly whatever he desired". The answer for me, is, it's actually a great combination. I have Normas in all sizes here, there is something about this I like. So now I get it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51204469626_632107156a_h.jpg[/url]5x7 and 4x5 Sinar Norma TLR's (https://flic.kr/p/2m1LhTd) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I don't remember the exact details, but it had something to do with automating steps..self cocking? Quicker to use, if I recall. Never used one so don't know anything except what I recall reading...which is not much:(

[Drew Wiley]

Components and accessories for the Sinar system are far more abundant than for the Toyo. You can even interchange all kinds of later Sinar P and F series components with Norma ones.