Aviphot vs. "Svema" vs. green x-ray vs. mammography ? [Archive]

landstrykere

25-Jan-2024, 12:26

I am about to buy more film for use in 13x18/5x7 and 8x10/18x24.
I have still a stock of Fuji HR-U (green sensitive), and two kinds of single-sided Agfa of which one is mammographic, and few sheets of "Svema". X-ray film is becoming harder to find, as medical use switches to digital. I am considering to buy a roll of 70m in 24cm of Aviphot.
I write "Svema" with quotes because the guys of Astrum in Shostka don't tell what they actually sell in custom cuts. It is aerographic for sure. Anyway despite they are cheap, ten years expired Aviphot sells even cheaper, very sometimes.
I like the x-ray sheets because the thickness, and depending what I will capture, the ability to use two-sides or single side emulsion (if green two-sides I remove one side emulsion before use and stock small amounts of these single sided sheets for future use). Aerographic film being thin it's easier to cut, but I insert it into the backs over a sheet of paper. Aerographic also isn't so scratch prone than x-ray. All in all, as for manipulations, I can deal with whatever but of course when less care is required, better.

what I am wondering is if there are big differences in spectrums between these two kinds of orthochromatic films, aerographic and medical.
(as for developers, I typically use metol variants D23-like, sometimes two baths à la Beutler, and otherwise have some of the usual raw chemicals to mix whatever)

Vaidotas

25-Jan-2024, 12:56

I’m using expired Svema from ~ 1990 in 9x12, 13x18, 18x24 format in sheets (not precut aerial film).
Film base is slightly thinner than conventional film.

There is strong variation in quality from batch to batch, quite a lottery.
And the best of it has prominent base fog.

There are some sellers from Ukraine in big auction site with moderately priced offerings but as you said, Aviphot roll has better price performance.

I’m curious about your one side emulsion removal procedure from double sided x-ray film.

DannL-USA

25-Jan-2024, 13:27

Here's a thought, you might consider removing the backside emulsion after the film has been exposed and developed. Just remember what side was the backside. The emulsion will help protect the back of the film from scratches. I'm using the Fuji green also. Started recently developing in PMK Pyro which seems to be giving me good results. I'm new using Pyro. Somewhere between iso 50 and 25. I ran into a lot of problems recently with D76 giving me little spheres all over the x-ray film, which I thought was kind of strange. Had never seen that before. Just some random thoughts.

landstrykere

25-Jan-2024, 14:03

I’m using expired Svema from ~ 1990 in 9x12, 13x18, 18x24 format in sheets (not precut aerial film).
Film base is slightly thinner than conventional film.

I bought what Astrum guys sell as new stock, fresh. The emulsion in 100 iso is what they sell in 35mm canisters. You tell them what size you want and quantity, they cut and package. Here my remaining sheets bough last year. Contact on Telegram, bank wire to a bank account in Kijow.

https://i.imgur.com/jG45687.jpg

the point is that you don't know what it is in fact, because Shostka is affected by regular power supply shortages since ongoing Donbass war, and manufacturing lines require temperature stability for proper operation. I know a reseller of they 35mmm canister who asked repeatedly to have a footage (mobile phone for instance) of the facility but they always eluded.
But that's not remains of last soviet stock, it's at least from before 2022.

I’m curious about your one side emulsion removal procedure from double sided x-ray film.

damn simple.
I use plexiglass plates. Ensure surface is clean, no dust, nothing. Tape the sheet with magic tape ie. invisible matte tape, at least 3 or 4 mm edge around. Be sure the tape sticks good, for this with the thumb rub strongly just over the edge. I always put a small piece of tape on the corners too. Ie. no liquid must sneaks its way under the edge of the tape and so pollute the other side.
I put the plate in the shower, pour some domestic chlore, can use gently a wide flat soft brush (laquer finish kind) or toilet paper to rub without pressing. Then rinse. Dry with toilet paper, ensuring tape is dry too, remove the tape. With scissors I do two cuts to create a notch.
On this plate here I do two sheets at a time. A bit tedious but doesn´t take so long either. I do 8 or 10 at once from time to time and store for future use. Clean the plexiglass for reuse.
Or use glass plates, but in case it falls plexiglass won't break anything. After some times, buy a new plate, they are cheap.

https://i.imgur.com/1KGy9GO.jpg

landstrykere

25-Jan-2024, 14:05

you might consider removing the backside emulsion after the film has been exposed and developed

it's easier before, chlor washes the emulsion without any effort.

DannL-USA

25-Jan-2024, 14:38

Oh yes, I am very aware. I'm really glad to see that the process caught on. That must've been 10 years ago now. Awesome!

landstrykere

25-Jan-2024, 15:34

Oh yes, I am very aware. I'm really glad to see that the process caught on. That must've been 10 years ago now. Awesome!

I have done both, before and after.. I will certainly not advocate the before way, it requires caution, but for me it's ok I prefer.

Just for fun, the other day I was playing with Caffenol-L (40g. coffee, 10g. ascorbic acid, 16g. sodium carbonate, ioded salt) in stand 1 hr. Here a single side emulsion Fuji HR-U, with other side emulsion washed away before shooting. The damages along right edges are not because the emulsion removal, but manipulations in cutting the 8x10 sheet to make 5x7. I use a guillotine cutter, still it requires attention. Aerial film is easier to cut.

https://i.imgur.com/OQ0Irtb.jpg

DannL-USA

25-Jan-2024, 18:03

I also cut the film on a guillotine cutter. I have several to do that job, one big and one small. I end up cutting the 8x10 fuji x-ray film for a full plate, half plate, and occasionally a 5 x 7 camera. Since using PMK Pyro I noticed that I haven't needed to strip the emulsion. Still practicing with Pyro. Sadly my time is very limited.

Andrew O'Neill

26-Jan-2024, 09:17

I experimented removing the unsharp side of double-sided xray (the side not facing the lens) many years ago. It's easy to do but pointless for several Alt. processes, such as Carbon transfers. When you remove one side, you literally are cutting the DR in half. Even extended development times wouldn't give me a decent DR. I use flat-bottomed tray for developing, and gentle agitation, D-23 1+1, or Pyrocat-HD 1+1+100 (preferring the former). No scratches. If you are getting scratches, you need to change something in your workflow. :)

DannL-USA

26-Jan-2024, 09:57

Some scratches were caused from film holders (circa 1910) having imperfect paint in the film inserts. Then there were scratches caused by brand spanking new plastic developing trays. So I now have been using metal baking pans, but will probably turn to glass baking dishes soon. I love glass.

Alan Townsend

26-Jan-2024, 20:18

What I am wondering is if there are big differences in spectrums between these two kinds of orthochromatic films, aerographic and medical.
(as for developers, I typically use metol variants D23-like, sometimes two baths à la Beutler, and otherwise have some of the usual raw chemicals to mix whatever)[/QUOTE]

The HRU green xray film is designed for use with a specific phosphor that is used, which has specific very narrow bands of green lines that it must have best sensitivity to, which a general purpose ortho film does not. I woulld think think the green xray film spectral sensitivity is different, but now much so would be only a guess. I would guess the green xray has better green sensitivity than other ortho films. Looking at a brite light through unprocessed HRU it appears to be very magenta in color, which is likely the ortho sensitizer.

I'm surprised that there are orthochromatic aerial films. I had a K20 US aerial camera that used 5 1/2 inch wide roll film, but never say any US ortho film stocks for that. Just as ortho films are 4-8 times more sensitive than color blind emulsions, pan films are also much more sensitive than even ortho. In aerial photography, where focus is mostly at infinity was fairly large aperatures and fast shutter speeds, that film speed is pretty important.

I currently use 8x10 HRU cut down to 4x5 processed in D23 at 1:7 dilution for 20 minutes. I'm able to get a good density range of about 1.8 with that processing. I do not remove one side, since that would cause other issues, but process 12 sheets at a time in a Doran cut film tank. I use a yellow filter to reduce the amount of light that reflect back off the second film surface, which acts like a halation layer due to its reflectivity. I also shoot some ortho litho films as well, using red construction paper behind the thin ortho litho film to take up space and help anti-halation while being easy to see under red safelight. To ortho litho, red is black, or at least dark grey.

Have fun,

Alan Townsend

Dugan

26-Jan-2024, 20:24

I bought some Svema 100 sheet film...it had some manufacturing faults. I had some difficulty taming its tendency to blow out highlights. It does have some near-infrared response if rated at ISO 1 with an IR720 filter, if is useful to you.

landstrykere

27-Jan-2024, 11:41

I'm surprised that there are orthochromatic aerial films. I had a K20 US aerial camera that used 5 1/2 inch wide roll film, but never say any US ortho film stocks for that. Just as ortho films are 4-8 times more sensitive than color blind emulsions, pan films are also much more sensitive than even ortho.

I made a mistake: Aviphot PE 200 is indeed panchromatic. Yesterday I just bought a ten years old roll:

https://i.imgur.com/n99Rw3L.jpg

I was confused because quite some of the soviet Tasma and Svema were ortho for a while. But actually current Tasma 25L and 42L are panchromatic.

I currently use 8x10 HRU cut down to 4x5 processed in D23 at 1:7 dilution for 20 minutes. I'm able to get a good density range of about 1.8 with that processing. I do not remove one side, since that would cause other issues, but process 12 sheets at a time in a Doran cut film tank. I use a yellow filter to reduce the amount of light that reflect back off the second film surface, which acts like a halation layer due to its reflectivity.

I never thought of trying very diluted D23, will try that. I use often replenished D23, I filter out the deposit with coffee filters from time to time. Have played with diverse 2-baths formula also. As for the single side or double side and halation glow I am still undecided, depends luminosity and the kind of scene.

Daniel Unkefer

27-Jan-2024, 11:55

For my two big Normas, I'm using 500 sheets of 8x10 Fuji HRU. And I have 500 sheets of the French 18x24cm Kodak Mammography films, and a roll of the 24cm Agfa Aviphot 200 as well. For Panchro 8x10 I have some olde HP5+, Shanghai 100, Ilford Commercial 8x10. Recently I added 50 sheets of 8x10 FOMA 200 which I intend to push process for highest speed. Right now I am using D23 at 1:1 and also Replenished Straight.

I like using all of these films.

landstrykere

27-Jan-2024, 13:50

I'm using 500 sheets of 8x10 Fuji HRU. And I have 500 sheets of the French 18x24cm Kodak Mammography films, and a roll of the 24cm Agfa Aviphot 200 as well.

what are your thoughts about HR-U vs. Mammography vs. Aviphot? do you prefer one in particular depending you take indoors portraits, natures mortes, or general outdoors, architecture, nature, landscape, sunny or cloudy?

Daniel Unkefer

27-Jan-2024, 14:13

Often I shoot duplicates if I'm not sure which works best. I'm really just getting started with 8x10 again. I shoot a lot in the studio so can shoot multiple film types as a sort of "bracketing".

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52222110706_6deac495ff_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nyFY85)18x24 Mammo Shortie Sawed Off Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2nyFY85) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is a test shot (my Shorty Norma) French Kodak 18x24cm Mammo Film, processed in D23 1:1. Taking camera is my new Annie/Avedon inspired 8x10 Norma. I applied 30 degrees of front and rear swing, the Norma original recessed lensboard is sharp all the way across the field. I like how the DOF drops off with the 360mm f5.6 Norma Symmar. There appears to be highlight blooming, which I find kind of attractive. Best thing about this film was that it was not at all expensive. And I have a lot of it. My "Shorty Sawed-Off Norma" has a basic rail cut down, to just accomodate a 120mm lens. Here it is shown with the 47mm f8 Super Angulon, which I am looking forward to using a lot with 2x3 and 6x9. This is not a telephoto camera, but I can easily lift and carry it with one hand without strain. The lowly Star-D tripod is sturdy enough with this setup, given proper time to settle down. I cut both ends off a basic Norma rail with my Lil Machine Shop Bandsaw. So it is now simply a hollow tube perfect length for Field and Architecture.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51974286563_d1a7ffb345_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2)18x24 Mammo Sinar Norma 300 Xenar Arista No 2 RC (https://flic.kr/p/2nbMND2) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Second test of 18x24cm Kodak Min-R XRay film developed 18 minutes at 60F Straight replenished Legacy Mic-X in Cesco trays. 300mm Schneider Xenar barrel lens f22 Yellow Filter. Four pops Broncolor C171 Beauty Light Contact Print 8x10 Arista #2 RC Multigrade dev. Again interesting how the red flowers go deep black.

Daniel Unkefer

27-Jan-2024, 15:54

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53289293012_6c3ebf7e9e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pbZyf1)Makiflex 150 Xenar HRU D23 Octobox 150 (https://flic.kr/p/2pbZyf1) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Plaubel Makiflex 150mm Schneider barrel Xenar 4x5 Fuji HRU XRAY D23 1:1 8x10 Aristo #2 RC Omega DII laser aligned. Dektol 1:2 Broncolor Octobox 150 with frosted bulb and Octobox Supplemental Diffusion. Backround by David Maheu "Tim Kelly Classic".

Daniel Unkefer

28-Jan-2024, 10:29

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51946522165_e83df3d9b3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n9kvfv)18x24cm Mammo Norma 121mm F45 18 pops C171 Beauty Light Grid (https://flic.kr/p/2n9kvfv) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Testing Kodak Mammography 18x24cm in HC-110 "H" 6.5 mins at ambient. 8x10 Sinar Norma 121mm F8 Sinar Norma Schneider Super Angulon on Norma Vertical Copy Arrangement. Shooting straight down at F45. Broncolor C171 Monolight with Broncolor Blue Pulso Beauty Dish, popped eighteen times with shutter on "B" to build up the density. Contact printed Omega DII with Omega;ite Arista RC #2 Matte paper Multigrade developer. Digital background shot by Tim Layton and was blown up by me at Costco. It was dark red so I guess I should have expected a lack of density on the right. Live and learn. Highlight tonality looks decent to me. 18x24 XRay film is easy and fun to shoot

waterlenz

28-Jan-2024, 12:15

Eugen Mezei

28-Jan-2024, 20:25

popdoc

28-Jan-2024, 20:48

Tin Can

29-Jan-2024, 14:43

All Lf size Medical USA XRay is called Green or Blue

However actually both are Blue tint

Only to reduce glare and eye strain for Dr and Technician

I buy whatever is cheaper

XrayShooter

30-Jan-2024, 09:05

For their double sided films Carestream indicates orientation. The two sides are colored differently. One has to be oriented to the "lens". The emulsions are of different sensitivity and grain.
So which to remove?

I use 3 different speeds of Carestream Industrex for Industrial Radiography. Both sides are the same emulsion. Both sides are the same color. Both sides are glossy. The emulsion can change color if the angle of light changes. The film is usually placed between two equal intensifying screens so both sides are exposed "equally". However, the screens can be a different thickness Front /Back and that is the critical orientation for us.

The notches on the film are for film type identification in the darkroom and post processing. By code we are only permitted to use specific film types. The MX125 film has no notches at all. Each type does have a different color emulsion though. MX is bluelish. T is a greenish beige. AA is a greyish beige.

In radiography we refer to the exposure side of the film as the "front, or source side" (toward the source of the xray), and the other side is the "back side".

Eugen Mezei

31-Jan-2024, 07:11

I use 3 different speeds of Carestream Industrex for Industrial Radiography. Both sides are the same emulsion. Both sides are the same color. Both sides are glossy. The emulsion can change color if the angle of light changes. The film is usually placed between two equal intensifying screens so both sides are exposed "equally". However, the screens can be a different thickness Front /Back and that is the critical orientation for us.

The notches on the film are for film type identification in the darkroom and post processing. By code we are only permitted to use specific film types. The MX125 film has no notches at all. Each type does have a different color emulsion though. MX is bluelish. T is a greenish beige. AA is a greyish beige.

In radiography we refer to the exposure side of the film as the "front, or source side" (toward the source of the xray), and the other side is the "back side".

I did not know Carestream produces X-ray for industrial/metallurgical application. Thought they bought only the medical part of Kodak.
I was referring to the double sided medical films. Some time ago I published a link to some brochures of Carestream medical film (single and double sided X-ray), it is here somewhere in the thread. Therein Carestream proudly mentions how the two sides are coated at different sensitivity and grain and which side you should orient to the source. To differentiate the two sides, they are colored differently (one purple, the other green).

Seeing the Fuji industrials are packaged with a sheet of Pb I hoped, they would be single side coated. (As why would one coat the side covered by the lead sheet?)

Are X-ray films for industrial nondestructive tests at least coated on a colorless base or also on the bluish one "to not tire the eyes"?

XrayShooter

31-Jan-2024, 10:43

I did not know Carestream produces X-ray for industrial/metallurgical application. Thought they bought only the medical part of Kodak.
I was referring to the double sided medical films. Some time ago I published a link to some brochures of Carestream medical film (single and double sided X-ray), it is here somewhere in the thread. Therein Carestream proudly mentions how the two sides are coated at different sensitivity and grain and which side you should orient to the source. To differentiate the two sides, they are colored differently (one purple, the other green).

Seeing the Fuji industrials are packaged with a sheet of Pb I hoped, they would be single side coated. (As why would one coat the side covered by the lead sheet?)

Are X-ray films for industrial nondestructive tests at least coated on a colorless base or also on the bluish one "to not tire the eyes"?

Interesting, I never looked at their medical films.

The lead wrappers in the contact packs are actually intensifying screens so that it is ready to shoot. No need for any cassettes.

Industrial xray film is double sided to reduce exposure times. You have emulsion in direct contact with the intensifying screens and improved density (with the sum of the two densities).

You can get industrial film without any additional packaging (no envelopes, lead, or other wrappers) too.

The film base is blue and I thought it was to improve the image tone of the radiographs. Old xrays had this yellow-brown tone. It can still get tiring on the eyes looking at a lot of film in one sitting.

Eugen Mezei

1-Feb-2024, 06:47

The lead wrappers in the contact packs are actually intensifying screens so that it is ready to shoot. No need for any cassettes.

The remains of the veterinary lab I bought the X-ray gear also contained casettes. I told the seller I dont want those (I was only interested in the hangers for dip and dunk) and later she told me, he sold those to somebody interested in the lead in them. I was a bit suprised, as the only casette I have, for panoramic dental x-ray 10x15 cm, does not seem to have lead in it.

You can get industrial film without any additional packaging (no envelopes, lead, or other wrappers) too.

In the link I posted for Fuji industrial xray in the big xray thread (I think it was this: https://www.mpmproducts.com/fujifilm---film.html) they have rolls of different wide (70 mm, 100 mm, but I read in some other thread they produced 90 mm in rolls of 600 m) with or without lead backing and with or without paper wrap. This could be interesting.

Btw, also interesting: https://www.fujifilm.com/de/en/business/inspection/non-destructive-digital/xrayfilm A list of all their industrial xray and formats but also the second tab with the brochures to every film and to general information about industrial xray is very informative.
And here subdivided into specialised fproducts for the oil and gas, aerospatial industry: https://www.fujifilm.com/us/en/business/industrial-materials/non-destructive-testing

The film base is blue and I thought it was to improve the image tone of the radiographs. Old xrays had this yellow-brown tone. It can still get tiring on the eyes looking at a lot of film in one sitting.

I wonder if we could convince one of the producers to run a batch coated on transparent support. Should not be a technicall challenge but a quantity one.

Tin Can

1-Feb-2024, 06:52

ZZ Medical is a major seller

I buy only from them in bulk, meaning cases of 500 sheets

https://www.zzmedical.com/11x14-in-fuji-x-ray-film.html?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp2002&sc_intid=2002&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAn-2tBhDVARIsAGmStVm5B8jF38ZHxIRCJ9umamIac1j9fC7BuRlf53HHEF8yYff5KtqVQosaAtZ1EALw_wcB

My first big buy was 10 years ago

Bought a case of 14X17" single side now out of production

I have 1/2 left

The biggest problem with x-ray is obfuscation by reinventing the wheel

landstrykere

1-Feb-2024, 22:08

rolls of different wide (70 mm, 100 mm, but I read in some other thread they produced 90 mm in rolls of 600 m) with or without lead backing and with or without paper wrap. This could be interesting.

Lomig Perrotin ie. "Film Washi" sells industrial x-ray roll he cuts in 120 medium format rolls. The "I" film rated iso 80 but he doesn't tell what brand/model he buys:
https://filmwashi.com/en/products/specialty_films/
https://filmwashi.com/datasheet/I_en.pdf
that's the possibility to test instead of buying big without knowing. There are few samples here and there and for instance:
http://www.alexluyckx.com/blog/2022/05/09/film-review-blog-no-83-film-washi-type-i/
but by now Perrotin is out of stock, also all resellers I could find excepted one in Switzerland, but at 50 fr postal fee I don't buy.

https://www.fujifilm.com/de/en/business/inspection/non-destructive-digital/xrayfilm A list of all their industrial xray and formats but also the second tab with the brochures to every film and to general information about industrial xray is very informative.

all manufacturers have online docs about the general physics-chemistry and their own products, but not easy to have exhaustive comparisons of different manufacturers/brands.
A relative old paper (2006) offers a small useful overview:
https://www.ndt.net/article/ecndt2006/doc/P131.pdf

Tin Can

2-Feb-2024, 06:25

There is a very active member who made a film sliter

Maybe he will speak up

Eugen Mezei

2-Feb-2024, 06:29

There is a very active member who made a film sliter

Maybe he will speak up

The idea behind using X-ray film is to replace large format film, as that is what is expensive. (The bigger the more expensive per shot.) Slitting it up contradicts this.
Now everyone can do as he wishes, but x-ray film drying up I consider it a pity to cut it up when you can buy roll formats pretty easily and relatively cheap without being necessary to make compromises.

Tin Can

2-Feb-2024, 06:52

I will never run out of film

landstrykere

5-Feb-2024, 12:42

Often I shoot duplicates if I'm not sure which works best. I'm really just getting started with 8x10 again. I shoot a lot in the studio so can shoot multiple film types as a sort of "bracketing".

I recall these indoors/studio shots of yours because now with still very short days, I can't do photography outdoors after work, which leaves week-ends but of course there are many things to do in the w-e and because that still often night came when I finally have time to do photography....and if not of course either it is a very dark day or it is snowing all day... Finally I get frustrated, indoors is not much my stuff, but saturday evening I just put a Horseman-985 on a tripod and took successive shots with three differents films, in 5x7/13x18: a Fomapan-200, Svema-100 and a Fuji-HRU, so a regular general photographic film, an aerographic and a green x-ray.

I metered everything at iso-100, on brightest part of central area on the ground glass.
btw. meet by dear pin pointing Sekonic:

https://i.imgur.com/XWPWByQ.jpg

my 5x7/13x18 is a FKD with a custom back to accept regular holders, also a custom front. These cameras are great and can cost nothing. This I bought this autumn, included a film holder and the shutter for 9.000 rub in Kaliningrad. Not bad.

https://i.imgur.com/EANAft0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6DgmroR.jpg

i don't use the shutter though, just lens caps with variable ND filters and a stopwatch, typically 4s to 8s. Here the lens is an Industar-51 @f16 and I set the ND so I had 8s exposure. With Foma films this can be tricky because reciprocity failure from some threshold...

everything was developed in replenished D23 (that has got 65x replenishments).

Fomapan-200:

https://i.imgur.com/sFt9Ekw.jpg

Svema-100, the aerographic film (it may be Aviphot or Kodak....)

https://i.imgur.com/HYg3iBh.jpg

and now x-ray green Fuji, with a 7'30" in D23R, custom dip tank, inspection under red light. (I didn't take much care when cutting it from a 8x10 sheet, so it shows on the edges...)

https://i.imgur.com/PEy7ATF.jpg

respectively (Fomapan 200, Svema 100 , Fuji HR-U) detail of front:.

https://i.imgur.com/1ot447z.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S0dNamS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3uYhBXe.jpg

landstrykere

5-Feb-2024, 13:03

I really tried to take some shots for comparison purpose outdoors, despite it was getting sundown. In a hurry against the clock i cut a piece of 13x18 from a 18x24 sheet of Agfa Mammoray, and the other side of the holder i loaded a Fomapan-200.
It was already low light. I metered at iso 100 the ice on the foreground with a spotmeter.
Meet my dear Vivitar 260-LX with 1° spot attachment:

https://i.imgur.com/Ojvht4y.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v0Gz5fk.jpg

it was low light and I forgot to extend exposure for the Fomapan reciprocity failure, so negative is a bit thin but still ok. The blue is the Agfa Mammoray:

https://i.imgur.com/J4KpeM2.jpg

so Fomapan-200:

https://i.imgur.com/bYlKBtW.jpg

the Mammoray, with a huge issue. I never got this kind of glitch, not sure what caused it, but anyway we can see how contrasted it is:.

https://i.imgur.com/s9i68t0.jpg

Eugen Mezei

5-Feb-2024, 17:43

btw. meet by dear pin pointing Sekonic:

https://i.imgur.com/XWPWByQ.jpg

Is that a homemade adaptation?

landstrykere

6-Feb-2024, 13:07

Is that a homemade adaptation?

yes, homemade back.

with the original back and cassette inserted:

https://i.imgur.com/pSl5TdH.jpg

these cassettes are thicker and larger than common 5x7/13x18 ones.
It's very easy to build a compatible back. I wanted to keep the size of the original so I can fold the camera, and make no modifications on the camera.
I make my own backs in 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 also reducing adapters from thin particle plates (MDF) thick cardboard, baseboard oak, glue, screws, metal ribbon, mate black paint, focusing screen from cheap picture frames glass, cardboard, glue, silicon carbide, and instead of metal springs or hacksaw blades, bicycle tube. Bicycle tube strips provide enough elasticity/tension in order to insert and keep film holders in place:..

https://i.imgur.com/UocNbVj.jpg

same thickness than original back, so camera can be folded:

https://i.imgur.com/eRaLUhr.jpg

---

there are countless discussions about the good and the bad of FKD.. Sometime in november I was into such a discussion on french language and I just shot a short footage of me using the camera, just to damn show that yes it's very easy to use with regular film holders. I cut a relevant chunk:

https://vimeo.com/910539102/7b5df29cf8?share=copy

https://vimeo.com/910539102/7b5df29cf8?share=copy

Daniel Unkefer

6-Feb-2024, 14:06

Delightful! Well Done! The lighting on that snow covered tractor was beautiful.

Eugen Mezei

6-Feb-2024, 23:33

yes, homemade back

No, I asked about the pinpointing device for the Sekonic.

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:23

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52277923765_009dca2d52_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nDC2pc)Makiflex 150 F2.8 Auto Xenotar MINR Mammo (https://flic.kr/p/2nDC2pc) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Foxglove on the back deck. Plaubel Makiflex with 150mm F2.8 Schneider Auto iris Xenotar lens wide open. 4X Neutral density filter added. Kodak MINR Mammography Film 18x24cm, cut down into four 9x12cm's. Microdol-X Legacy Developer 12 minutes at 74F. Aristo #2 RC 8x10 print, Omega DII laser aligned 180mm black Rodagon, Dektol dev 1:2. Handheld which I have been doing with Makiflexes a bit.

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:32

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50964223947_249527b71f_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kDwYdk)Makina II HRU Handheld (https://flic.kr/p/2kDwYdk) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

6.5x9cm Plaubel Makina II HANDHELD Fuji HRU cut from 8x10. RADA plate holder with film insert, Plaubel Yellow filter. 1/200 at f6. 5x7 Aristo #2 Omega DII 4x5 glass carrier Multigrade developer. I produced four perfect negatives from this shoot. Successful test with no scratches. This film scratches very easilty

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:34

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50823673491_d191b71b3e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kr7BsB)Abandoned Orchard Apple Tree HRU Maki 210 Heliar (https://flic.kr/p/2kr7BsB) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

In my neighborhood there are remnants of the apple orchard that stretched for a good distance many decades ago. At the back of my property is one of the original trees, now gone wild. Plaubel Makiflex Standard, 210mm Makiflex Auto Iris Heliar, Fuji XRAY HRU 4x5" cut from 8x10. Grafmatic Film Back, Sinar 103mm Glass Disc Yellow Green. 1/15 at F5.6 Legacy Mic-X 18 minutes at 60C. Aristo #2 8x10 Omega DII Omegalite Diffusion Head Multigrade dev

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:37

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50549038488_70929d7405_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2k1R33m)Ashton Pond Norma Handy HRU Mic-X 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2k1R33m) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Ashton Pond Sinar Norma Handy 4x5 Fuji HR-U XRay 65mm F8 at F22 Schneider CF + Sinar Norma Dark Yellow 103mm Glass Disk 1 sec at F22 Legacy Mic-X replenished stock in tray 18 mins at 62F Arista #2 RC 8x10 Multigrade dev

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:39

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50505677496_7eb775d51f_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jX1Nk3)Auto Maki no 2 150 2.8 Xenotar HRU 5 (https://flic.kr/p/2jX1Nk3) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Automatic Makiflex #2 150mm F2.8 Xenotar wide-open 1/15 Fuji 8x10 XRay HRU cut down to 4x5 in Graphmatic back StarD tripod. Development 12 minutes 60F straight Mic-X replenished by inspection of shadow values by deep red safelight. 8x10 Arista #2 RC Omega DII 180 Rodagon f22 50 seconds Omegalite diffusion head Multigrade developer

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:40

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50378155288_6525ef5009_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jKKdqh)HRU Makiflex Std Mic-X 240 f4.5 Tele-Arton (https://flic.kr/p/2jKKdqh) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Plaubel Makiflex Standard camera 240mm F5.5 chrome barrel mount Schneider Tele-Arton at F22. One pop of Broncolor Pulso C171 monolight strobe with Broncolor Pulso Beauty Dish. No fill. 8x10 Fuji HR-U XRay film cut into 4x5s straight Microdol-X replenished in a tray development by inspection under custom red light. 4x5 Lisco Regal holder. 8x10 RC Aristo #2 Multigrade dev Omega DII with diffusion Omegalite head.

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:46

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50348848932_1424fbb535_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh)Kodak 1A Grey Bullet Safelight 2 (https://flic.kr/p/2jHa1Eh) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

3 Watt Lowes Red LED, inside a Kodak Grey Bullet Safelight. Kodak IA deep red filter in front of the LED. As recommended by Jason Lane (the dry plate Guy). Thanks Jason! This one is 7-8 feet from my developing tray in my darkroom sink. No light fog whatsoever even with thirty minute developing.

THE JASON LANE DOUBLE-SAFE SAFELIGHT!

Daniel Unkefer

7-Feb-2024, 07:59

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51960843136_f706152ab7_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2naAUnN)4x5 Fuji HRU Mic-X 5 minutes (https://flic.kr/p/2naAUnN) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Fuji 8x10 HR-U X-Ray cut down to 4x5, Graphmatic Holder, 4x5 Sinar Norma 180mm f5.6 chrome Durst Componon lens, full key sun. This was exposure #6, two stops over ambient reading of grey card EI 50 TTL Sinarsix 1/15 @ Fll. Short development is stock Legacy Mic-X 5 minutes 68F. Cesco flat bottomed 8x10 tray, sheets developed singly. I did a sort of ring-around, varying exposure and development times. This is the lowest contrast version which I like. 8x10 Arista RC #2 Multigrade dev Omega DII with Omegalite circuline head Cool thing is this works out to about 7 cents per 4x5 sheet.

maltfalc

7-Feb-2024, 09:29

The HRU green xray film is designed for use with a specific phosphor that is used, which has specific very narrow bands of green lines that it must have best sensitivity to, which a general purpose ortho film does not. I woulld think think the green xray film spectral sensitivity is different, but now much so would be only a guess. I would guess the green xray has better green sensitivity than other ortho films. Looking at a brite light through unprocessed HRU it appears to be very magenta in color, which is likely the ortho sensitizer.

green sensitizing dyes aren't that specific and there's a limit to how much sensitivity you can shift to green, so there's not a huge difference. hru green is sensitive to everything from uv to orange. you might notice brighter foliage or nicer skin tones compared to some other ortho film, but nothing major.

landstrykere

7-Feb-2024, 10:24

No, I asked about the pinpointing device for the Sekonic.

not homemade, Sekonic L-428 with "pin point" attachment. The L-428 (and L-448) were the last mechanical needle and analogical meters of Sekonic. The L-428 has attachments for incident, reflected, 10° measuring and this optic fiber "probe" ie. you meter a spot on the focusing screen. Attachments come with own computing wheel.
The pin point is a stack of thin optic fibers. The plastic of the sheath deteriorates over time and falls aparts. I removed all, used rubber ribbon (light proof and non sticking) to make a new sheath and covered with pvc electrical ribbon (I had a roll of green).

https://i.imgur.com/T4ECpjv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5wlCzrX.jpg

Gossen and Quantum did also so-called system meters,, ie. a measuring unit with diversity of attachments among which an optic fiber "pin point" for focusing screens. Here my Sekonic L-428 my Gossen Profisix and my Quantum Calcu-Light XP, each with its probe cable on.
Gossen and Sekonic are mechanical needle (but different way to work) with computing wheel. The Gossen doesn´t need to swap the wheel when swapping attachment, just adjust a coefficient on a scale of the wheel. The Quantum is non mechanical, red LED display of a value to set the computing wheel.

https://i.imgur.com/mWfdb3D.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Q33KHng.jpg

there were also long flat arms with a measuring blue silicon sensor at the tip, to be inserted through a slit into back adapters, in order to meter the light in front of the focusing screen. Sinar made this with Minolta, the measuring arm has a wire with a connector to Minolta III/IV/V meters.
The optic fiber probe on the focusing screen were probably set with a calibration inside the meter, taking in consideration an average/typical loss of light through a regular focusing screen with no fresnel, I guess. So depending how clear and clean the focusing screen is there may some variation.

Anyway the utility of these pin probes depends the scene/subject you photograph. I often prefer the spotmetering with my Vivitar LX1+LX260 because the optic bloc is big and clear, and when luminance varies a lot across the scene, depending what result you have in mind, you can meter a much smaller spot than on the focusing screen, specially when the format is smaller like 13x18.
For instance here in red, by the arrow, the dimension of a 1° spot seen from the spotmeter. I can finely meter there on the whitish part of the wall, or on a bright spot of the snow, or on a darker spot of the snow, the pin probe on the focusing screen of a 13x18 size will not allow such level of separation.

https://i.imgur.com/IIYTBR2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iaoUklk.jpg

something else is that I use in 13x18 and 8x10 non-shuttered lenses, most excepted the soviet Tessar at f4.5, are repro lenses german (Rodenstock, Staeble under Helioprint/Agfa, Eskofot brands) and soviet (Industar, LOMO RF) ie. slower, full åpen at f9, and instead of shutter I use variable ND filters for longer exposure. So my lenses with the full åpen ND are no better than f11. When there is low light the pin probe on focusing screen may reach its limit but I can spot meter directly the scene instead and do the math.