starting out...

[monochromeFan]

IS there such a thing as starting out with a press camera in 2x3 or 4x5 that isnt going to cost more then a new enlarger? seriously.. what the hell is going on with prices these days..

REAL easy to find a press camera with a roll film back, but not lens or sheet film holder... And its like sheet film holders are a DIY project now.

[maltfalc]

my pacemaker speed graphics were a little over $100 and $300 canadian, with the kit lenses. all my 4x5 film holders were $5 or $3. my enlarger was free though, so i guess technically they were more expensive. just be patient and somebody on ebay will post a camera that hasn't been cleaned in 50 years and that nobody wants to bid on.

[jnantz]

hard to pick something up for less than free..
OP. good luck with the DYI, .. T Distance can be a real PITA .. starting out you might take into consideration
that it's probably worth plunking down the $$ on a camera so ... at least you know if the reason none
of your images are in focus is because you actually did something wrong, not that's the only kind of images the camera makes ..
im sure a beater doesn't really cost that much ..

[Tin Can]

10 seconds on eBay I found a 4X5 rail needs bellows

$35 OBO

[Havoc]

Depends on what you want I guess (I have no clue what a new enlerger costs). A working Mamiya Press with lens and 6x9 back isn't that expensive but you give up on movements. It can even use sheet film holders and you can find them for not much because nobody uses 6x9 in sheet. If you can live with a field camera, then Wista is decent and can be found for reasonable prices. 4x5 sheet holders are not that expensive either. And reasonably priced 4x5 can be found. What is the budget and what do you want to photograph?

Film, that is expensive for a consumable...

[paulbarden]

Rather than quote a vague, relative cost, it would be helpful to know what your budget limitations are. Press cameras are dirt common (and can be very inexpensive) if you go to the Fleabay and look. I see plenty of Speed Graphics for sale under $300, which is average if you want a working camera. If you want to search in person in thrift shops, pawn shops, estate sales, etc., then you can likely find one for half that. Film holders are also plentiful and can be had for an average price of $10 apiece, often sold in bundles of 3 or more. I am puzzled by your perception that any of these things are hard to find and overly costly - that's simply not the case.

[Tin Can]

I disagree with allowing price setting




Rather than quote a vague, relative cost, it would be helpful to know what your budget limitations are. Press cameras are dirt common (and can be very inexpensive) if you go to the Fleabay and look. I see plenty of Speed Graphics for sale under $300, which is average if you want a working camera. If you want to search in person in thrift shops, pawn shops, estate sales, etc., then you can likely find one for half that. Film holders are also plentiful and can be had for an average price of $10 apiece, often sold in bundles of 3 or more. I am puzzled by your perception that any of these things are hard to find and overly costly - that's simply not the case.

[DannL-USA]

For what it may be worth (my two pesetas) I would recommend a 4x5 folder (non-monorail) and you'll be in like Flynn. Learning how to use eBay (private sellers), and watching like a hawk for under priced new listings will also help you acquire the most camera for the least mula. ;-) There is no lack of 4x5 film holders on eBay.

Cameras: Toyo, Horseman, Wista, Press cameras . . .

Film, Chems, and goods: Freestyle, B&H, Adorama . . .

Happy shopping!

P.S. Prices are interesting, especially regarding View Cameras. I think of them as a long term investment item. Prices keep going up. Cheap enlargers can "sometimes" be found at estate sales, and Craigslist. Then there's eBay and the accompanying shipping costs. There's probably 10,000 enlargers on eBay.

[paulbarden]

I disagree with allowing price setting

What?? I'm just quoting what I found.

[Peter De Smidt]

Just some examples:
https://www.keh.com/shop/4x5-horseman-le-1.html
https://www.keh.com/shop/sinar-4x5-f-view-camera-body-679681.html
https://www.keh.com/shop/linhof-4x5-kardan-super-color-view-camera-body-679650.html
https://www.keh.com/shop/4x5-graflex-super-graphic-batt-n-a-1.html
https://www.keh.com/shop/large-format-4x5-zone-vi-classic-field-mahogany-bail-back-golden-fittings-224073.html

Of the monorails listed, I'd lead towards the Horseman. They're well built, and they are compatible with a ton of Sinar accessories, such as bellows, lens boards, viewers.....

This is what I've used the most: https://www.keh.com/shop/toyo-view-45ax-field-camera-224069.html
https://www.ebay.com/itm/235243213630?hash=item36c596933e:g:4H8AAOSwfcFkr2LS&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Fu2eoe8e3R0PzrBz3htp17519mXL17PNj%2BtlCH%2BGdKU%2FYraDX%2B96ZkO1uNkOGHJdu5rOuGykTAWXRbX6NQ0N4BmAWjTtLU0%2FhkN75qzRFNvBOSCJJpv8jfbtC8GPmzF8MozDgbrocfXSIqkSEFxSFhzaNuZpSqWKpqANkUeglDqwV6ddJHsdthOawUwbrCXVrwp5ssRj5TO4Lk5k9uzBtSUtnTELNKmobRBwzwQCR2ux32eS7ZnwL6PgQfs9AXmKb9IsdziUL5T9uPHcdTiBgQFaHPWzOO%2BK%2BLRsxv10yBc%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5a5qf2kYw

The Toyo AX is a bit heavy, but it's very sturdy and easy to use.

[monochromeFan]

tin man, cant find that 4x5 rail, not after an hour of searching you must be using some pretty obscure terms.


Im trying hard to make a headline into understanding the various generations and styles of film holder setup for these cameras. The fact the "lower tier" makers used the older style systems for a long time after the "Top Tier" companies went to newer versions.

And the issue i have is that as nice as roll film backs are, almost every camera, at least in the press camera world, if it has a roll film back it doesnt have a ground glass for it. And thats fine IF the camera comes with the correct lens mounted so it works with the stop/cam system that lets it work with the built in range finder system.

And the special lenses arent easy to find, because with the hosreman lineup, you need a pair of stops and cams made for each focal length, if you want to stop using the ground glass.

[Tin Can]

Rail cameras are cheap

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204470297573?hash=item2f9b6123e5:g:wEEAAOSwX5JlC2is&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0AcbJjVYIw9JDooIEI4Loj3yMNakfsf6A3MWohQNa21%2BSzAixfPhrMU0pSlLMlKySE3tLanWEzfrLOzH1M8lBJPliOerZNQ%2B4Q4yPEByfjMi0V1gd8L5kb72pNHVdOF7kSmfq16mLPHzQws7tolBCc83jJU3RkbjuOCmaPPwwhNoihL6yiXM%2FJRj4m2Pj4O3cIVRQ8FgVivEYdIzLqbBQDcxZ7NikI0d0g64TNZE0pMZPvaZ54Bi5j6U%2FUSCuduD3SvN9LsLg1vFTJwuwEShP3w%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMrp-ngKVj

Saww Peters Horsrman Rail Bargain

[Oren Grad]

This is getting confused. Time to re-set.

What size camera are you looking for - 4x5 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4?

Do you want to use it as a view camera, focusing on the ground glass, or do you want to use rangefinder focusing?

[maltfalc]

Im trying hard to make a headline into understanding the various generations and styles of film holder setup for these cameras. The fact the "lower tier" makers used the older style systems for a long time after the "Top Tier" companies went to newer versions.
https://jolommencam.com/holders/

[DannL-USA]

tin man, cant find that 4x5 rail, not after an hour of searching you must be using some pretty obscure terms.


Im trying hard to make a headline into understanding the various generations and styles of film holder setup for these cameras. The fact the "lower tier" makers used the older style systems for a long time after the "Top Tier" companies went to newer versions.

And the issue i have is that as nice as roll film backs are, almost every camera, at least in the press camera world, if it has a roll film back it doesnt have a ground glass for it. And thats fine IF the camera comes with the correct lens mounted so it works with the stop/cam system that lets it work with the built in range finder system.

And the special lenses arent easy to find, because with the hosreman lineup, you need a pair of stops and cams made for each focal length, if you want to stop using the ground glass.

I think you may be jumping to conclusions without the experience under your belt. Once you have "put in the time" working with a couple of the available formats (some examples: 6x9, 2.25x3.25, half-plate, 4x5, 5x7, full-plate, 8x10, 10x12, 11x14) you'll find that the assumptions being made simply do not hold water. Example: lenses designed for 4x5 or 5x7 work great with their respective formats. Film holder sizes were standardized over a century ago. View cameras missing their focus screens are simply "incomplete cameras". So then, buy the missing focus screen when found, or buy a camera that is complete.

When I started using view cameras, I knew nothing about about them. So, I built an 8x10 camera from scratch, bellows and all, to fit the only 8x10 film holder that I owned. My 8x10 lens was the Rapid Rectilinear from a Kodak 3A Model C Folder. Since then, the herd of cameras has grown, and I love each and every one of them. Each is different, and each has it's attributes. View cameras are by far the easiest and funnest of all the cameras to use. Pick a format like 4x5 (most common), and focus on learning every aspect of that format. Then spread out from there.

Under the right conditions, I might divulge everything I know. ;-)

[monochromeFan]

Im interested in light weight. Hence my interest in the press cameras, meant to be hand held and fold up smoothly. I do admit that the big rail cameras can be had rather cheaply for the body, but the NEED of a huge tripod is not a fun one. Some sellers are listing the calumet 4x5 rail camera as being 18 pounds WITHOUT a lens, lens board, or film holders.

There ARE preffered options to the back and how it holds film.

But for a starter outer.. its rather hard to keep from getting screwed on a lens as the lenses dont say what format they are for, and the sellers dont want to say.

I ended up getting creamed on a "really nice condition, almost mint TLR" a few years ago,, beautiful exterior condition. focused fine, shutter was sticking badly. TO get it repaired correctly without destroying the leather, tripled my overal cost for getting into TLR. Hardly ever use it sadly.

Its hard to get the reading material right, but the press camera with its handholding power, and its claimed ability to use lenses with higher powers and faster shutters, in general, is nice. I plan on taking a camera with me to work every day and with the people i work with... it has to stay in my car and get damaged in summer, or be in my tiny locker under pad lock.
Ive had coworkers rearrange the items in my lunch for me. I mean, i make my dinner and the sausage is UNDER the rice, i go to eat it and the sausage is ON top of the rice, strange fingerprints from them trying to get into my phone. things like that.


I dont mind the idea of using roll film backs for it, im used to 120/220 via my mamiya 645. I have been thinking on getting myself a univeral glass carrier for my beseler 23c. I can do 2x3 negatives on it last i checked, and not need anything new.

[DannL-USA]

I now see your dilemma. You need a 4x5 Press camera with the ability to shoot 120 or 4x5 sheet film? Until you can get yourself a 4x5 enlarger, you can contact print your those 4x5 negatives. See how easy that was?! ;-) Now you need to find the right 4x5 press camera with focus screen, a 120 roll-film back, and a working lens/shutter. Shopping is the fun part. You learn as you go.

PS; I say 4x5 because the 3.25x4.25 and smaller sheet films are getting harder and harder to find. Choices are very limited.

6x9 Technical Camera options . . . (but then again there's the limited film problem)
https://www.cameraeccentric.com/static/img/pdfs/horseman_2.pdf
http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/CamProf_Horseman1.htm
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02493/02493.pdf
https://pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02491/02491.pdf

I took the Horseman 985 route myself. Also owned a 980 at one time. Both purchased from eBay sellers in Japan. Both excellent cameras. These cameras can use stops and cams. There are plenty of Roll Film holders available. 6x9 (2x3) sheet film holders are around, but harder to find.

[paulbarden]

Im interested in light weight. Hence my interest in the press cameras, meant to be hand held and fold up smoothly. I do admit that the big rail cameras can be had rather cheaply for the body, but the NEED of a huge tripod is not a fun one. Some sellers are listing the calumet 4x5 rail camera as being 18 pounds WITHOUT a lens, lens board, or film holders.

There ARE preffered options to the back and how it holds film.

But for a starter outer.. its rather hard to keep from getting screwed on a lens as the lenses dont say what format they are for, and the sellers dont want to say.

I ended up getting creamed on a "really nice condition, almost mint TLR" a few years ago,, beautiful exterior condition. focused fine, shutter was sticking badly. TO get it repaired correctly without destroying the leather, tripled my overal cost for getting into TLR. Hardly ever use it sadly.

Its hard to get the reading material right, but the press camera with its handholding power, and its claimed ability to use lenses with higher powers and faster shutters, in general, is nice. I plan on taking a camera with me to work every day and with the people i work with... it has to stay in my car and get damaged in summer, or be in my tiny locker under pad lock.
Ive had coworkers rearrange the items in my lunch for me. I mean, i make my dinner and the sausage is UNDER the rice, i go to eat it and the sausage is ON top of the rice, strange fingerprints from them trying to get into my phone. things like that.


I dont mind the idea of using roll film backs for it, im used to 120/220 via my mamiya 645. I have been thinking on getting myself a univeral glass carrier for my beseler 23c. I can do 2x3 negatives on it last i checked, and not need anything new.

Have you read any of the reviews and guide articles archived on this forum?? Here's a beginner's guide to lenses for 4x5 (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-wide.html) and another (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses4x5.html). It doesn't get much clearer than that. There are scores of tutorial materials right here on this forum. I suggest you do some reading. The volume of invaluable information here (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/) is extensive (go to Equipment reviews towards the bottom of the page), and very useful.

Few sellers are going to tell you what format the lens/shutter they have for sale is appropriate for - it's up to the buyer to have some understanding of what they are looking at/for. The "standard" focal length for 4x5 is 150mm, but anything between 120mm (mildly wide angle) and 180mm (mildly telephoto) is considered "normal" for 4x5. So, you will pretty much know what you're looking at if you find a lens of about 150mm in a shutter for sale. If you aren't absolutely certain it's appropriate for your camera, then ask someone here to review it for you - it's that simple.

But of course, the best option is to buy a camera complete with a lens. There are thousands of Graflex cameras (with lens) out there for sale. If you're really worried you'll end up with a sh*tty camera that doesn't work, then spend a bit extra and buy from a camera shop that 1) inspects and services their used equipment before selling it and 2) guarantees what they sell. Blue Moon Camera in PDX is one such shop, and they sell a variety of Graflexes.

As for weight, the average Graflex weighs between 4.5 and 6 pounds, sans lens/shutter, depending on which model.

[monochromeFan]

and studying photographs has been more helpful with figuring out the "better" lens length for me to think about. Overall I seem to like the 100-135mm portraits i see online.

Normally im a telephoto kid for the 35mm 75-210 or 100-300 is my preference. But a massive amount of smashing good work with 100-135 lenses for 4x5 thankfully.

[B.S.Kumar]

Wait a couple of weeks (30 days for new members) and you'll be able to access the Buy/Sell forum on this site. You'll have a wide range of cameras, lenses and film holders from which to choose.
In the meanwhile, as Paul suggests above, read.

Kumar

[DannL-USA]

Some popular lens lines . . .

FUJINON
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00910/00910.pdf

NIKKOR
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/03550/03550.pdf

SCHNEIDER-KREUZNACH
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02090/02090.pdf

HORSEMAN (TOKYO OPTICAL)
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02493/02493.pdf

GRAFLEX
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02876/02876.pdf

RODENSTOCK
https://www.rodenstock-photo.com/sites/default/files/2020-04/e_Rodenstock_Analog_Lenses_27-42__8226.pdf

[monochromeFan]

Wait a couple of weeks (30 days for new members) and you'll be able to access the Buy/Sell forum on this site. You'll have a wide range of cameras, lenses and film holders from which to choose.
In the meanwhile, as Paul suggests above, read.

Kumar

Well Kumar, interesting name there..

Going to have to wait for a while anyway, I just broke the fun money account tonight by purchasing a small stash of officially unused New Old Stock sheet film holders and metal slides. More expansive then i thought it would be, but no wear and tear, with a 30 day return period is alot better thne trying to spend money on a 70 year old one thats worn to crap.

[B.S.Kumar]

Kumar is quite a common name in India...

FYI, I sell brand new Toyo 4x5 film holders for 11,700 JPY per twin pack plus shipping.

Kumar

[monochromeFan]

Well Kumar, interesting name there..

Going to have to wait for a while anyway, I just broke the fun money account tonight by purchasing a small stash of officially unused New Old Stock sheet film holders and metal slides. More expansive then i thought it would be, but no wear and tear, with a 30 day return period is alot better thne trying to spend money on a 70 year old one thats worn to crap.

was more refering to the B.S. part of the handle..

not bad on the price you charge, but after shipping charges its almost the same as buying from Toyo itself..

I only paid 26.50 each complete unit, so im feeling broke but pretty good about it all.

[B.S.Kumar]

My family name is quite long and many people find it difficult to pronounce. My parents weren't conversant with the American language...

Shipping one twin pack to the US costs 3,600 JPY, making for a total of 15,300 JPY.
Toyo doesn't sell direct, and the price at B&H is $149 plus shipping. That works out to at least 22,000 JPY, about 50% more expensive.

Kumar

[John Kasaian]

If you want a press camera, get a good press camera.
Beware that some less expensive examples of Speeders look like they were hammered from amateur use, and of course no Linhof will be found cheap unless it's so old that worn parts are no longer available.
If you want a press camera, try for a retired pro's well-loved kit, complete with all the goodies you'll need---film holders, lenses and filters, etc... --- this could save you money in the long run.
My current Speeder is a 5x7 which I shoot handheld exclusively, so no tripod needed and since I contact print those beautiful big 5x7 negs, no enlarger required either,
but handheld photography with film holders takes some getting used to.

If you want a 4x5, there are plenty of older monorails that soldier on just fine for less $$
I have a Graphic View II that's a real peach and an aged Tiltall tripod completes the aluminum art deco vibe, but it has all the movements anyone could expect from a monorail of any vintage.

Why would you want a new enlarger when there are plenty of old Omegas and Beselers out there needing homes?
Just like with press cameras, look for one that comes with all proper parts you'll need, often this will be dark room clearance.
I have two Omegas at present, a D-II that cost me $100 a few decades ago and a D-2 that was gifted from out of the blue to me just last year. The Omega D-II/D-2 were professional quality
when they came out and carefully maintained examples are just as good as they ever were. No print could ever read the name on the enlarger that made the print (unlike the lens---get a crummy enlarging lens and you're doomed before you even start!)

My thoughts anyway.
Others here can speak with far more authority.

[John Kasaian]

Has the OP checked out Graflex.org? Lots of good info on press cameras over there!

[monochromeFan]

I now see your dilemma. You need a 4x5 Press camera with the ability to shoot 120 or 4x5 sheet film? Until you can get yourself a 4x5 enlarger, you can contact print your those 4x5 negatives. See how easy that was?! ;-) Now you need to find the right 4x5 press camera with focus screen, a 120 roll-film back, and a working lens/shutter. Shopping is the fun part. You learn as you go.

PS; I say 4x5 because the 3.25x4.25 and smaller sheet films are getting harder and harder to find. Choices are very limited.

6x9 Technical Camera options . . . (but then again there's the limited film problem)
https://www.cameraeccentric.com/static/img/pdfs/horseman_2.pdf
http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/CamProf_Horseman1.htm
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02493/02493.pdf
https://pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02491/02491.pdf

I took the Horseman 985 route myself. Also owned a 980 at one time. Both purchased from eBay sellers in Japan. Both excellent cameras. These cameras can use stops and cams. There are plenty of Roll Film holders available. 6x9 (2x3) sheet film holders are around, but harder to find.

the 985. is it a 4x5 or is it a 2x3? Im seeing them for sale listed as BOTH so i am somewhat knockered on that as im looking at a really nice condition one in japan the seller lists as medium format.

[Oren Grad]

the 985. is it a 4x5 or is it a 2x3?

2x3. There's a 4x5 expansion back but the rangefinder is not usable with it and it makes for an unwieldy package.

The only Horseman field cameras that are 4x5 have "45" in the model designation (45HF, 45HD, 45FA). None of the Horseman 4x5 field cameras has a rangefinder.

[monochromeFan]

2x3. There's a 4x5 expansion back but the rangefinder is not usable with it and it makes for an unwieldy package.

The only Horseman field cameras that are 4x5 have "45" in the model designation (45HF, 45HD, 45FA). None of the Horseman 4x5 field cameras has a rangefinder.

figures, it looks like it hasnt been used since it left the factory. wishful thinking i guess.

[Corran]

Just buy an Intrepid 4x5 and cheap 150mm lens and start shooting. Used Intrepids can be found for under $250.

[paulbarden]

Just buy an Intrepid 4x5 and cheap 150mm lens and start shooting. Used Intrepids can be found for under $250.

Finally, someone said it.

[monochromeFan]

Finally, someone said it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276174674324?hash=item404d4b1994:g:YDEAAOSwAE5lUR2E&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwJfQm6Uu1AWyIBMd%2B0qKXCatW0aUW5Scxsq6DH0s9DqSs3h%2BAhKV2K3pSEPmrZnRtYsVWFQCd0TqvUfFD8fkf0QkL8SAfCd4oZ70Rq7yCHEn97UEVVc%2B14lEoJadMftmpXHp7Ke4AoBj1s3GCxPZ0VYeyG4DQWsP08NUiymVUtYYck1SrCcsh6np6HPkTorx2X%2FM6i3A76VXhNFRGzu9AQMROgqnieXAockK4TKAP%2B6v6W%2Bic%2Ff6nkLtMsfQXZBefw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_yq4IWnYw

ebay rocks for intrepid...

[Corran]

Ignore anything sold by catlabs. Facebook film photography groups are where you can find secondhand stuff easily.

[paulbarden]

Ignore anything sold by catlabs. Facebook film photography groups are where you can find secondhand stuff easily.

Agreed. CatLabs will overcharge significantly for a camera kit like that. Avoid!!

[Peter De Smidt]

If you go that way, make sure you're saving enough from the cost of a new one. I've owned two Intrepids, and they improved their cameras substantially fairly quickly. They also have great support for people who buy new. Sure, it'll cost a bit more to buy new, but it would likely save a lot of hassle.

[Tin Can]

I found finding a complete DR and/or ready to go cameras are cheaper in the long run

[monochromeFan]

I found finding a complete DR and/or ready to go cameras are cheaper in the long run

Not always cheaper in the long run... its one thing to spend more now, but its completely different to spend more money now on a camera with a lens that is DOA..

[DannL-USA]

the 985. is it a 4x5 or is it a 2x3? Im seeing them for sale listed as BOTH so i am somewhat knockered on that as im looking at a really nice condition one in japan the seller lists as medium format.

Ooops! Sorry for the delay . . .

As mentioned by Oren, 2.25x3.25 (6x9cm) for Film Holders. But, if you're more interested in 120 roll film, then the manual states 6x7cm. I believe that goes for the 970, 980, 985, VH and VH-R.
https://archive.org/details/horseman-985-owner-manual/mode/2up

Horseman VH and VH-R series of cameras in the 6x9/6x7 bracket.

http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/LFN/CamProf_Horseman1.htm
https://www.butkus.org/chinon/horseman/horseman_vh-r/horseman_vh-r.htm

Please note: the information given here, is not to be considered as a recommendation to buy. ;-)

[Oren Grad]

Ooops! Sorry for the delay . . .

As mentioned by Oren, 2.25x3.25 (6x9cm) for Film Holders. But, if you're more interested in 120 roll film, then the manual states 6x7cm. I believe that goes for the 970, 980, 985, VH and VH-R.
https://archive.org/details/horseman-985-owner-manual/mode/2up

As stated on p. 5 of the linked manual, the 985 accepts both 6x7 and 6x9 cm rollholders. Same is true for all of the cameras you mention.

[jnantz]

Not always cheaper in the long run... its one thing to spend more now, but its completely different to spend more money now on a camera with a lens that is DOA..

the price of a lens you purchase is never the actual price of the lens. you always have to figure in the price of a CLA.

[DannL-USA]

As stated on p. 5 of the linked manual, the 985 accepts both 6x7 and 6x9 cm roll holders. Same is true for all of the cameras you mention.

I stand corrected. I personally don't use roll film, as I develop each sheet individually . . . and I'm cheap. ;-)

[John Kasaian]

B-b-but all the cool kids shoot Speeders and wear fedoras :cool:

[DannL-USA]

As stated on p. 5 of the linked manual, the 985 accepts both 6x7 and 6x9 cm rollholders. Same is true for all of the cameras you mention.

Sure enough, I dug the Horseman roll film holder from the old trunk. It's a 6x9. I would not have known that if we didn't have this discussion.

An interesting piece of hardware . . .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166563933827?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=bjExlrFnTUS&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=wr-CvC2cTOa&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Missing the eyecup. :-)

^^^ Well that sold fast!

[BrianShaw]

B-b-but all the cool kids shoot Speeders and wear fedoras :cool:

Yes we do... and we use flashbulbs too!

[John Kasaian]

The OP might consider rooting about for a Graflarger, or is it Graphlarger? However you spell it, an accessory that can convert a Crown to an enlarger.
It's a pretty slick deal!

[monochromeFan]

I really wanted a nice nifty easy to handhold camera... finding one that worked for me was pretty damn near impossible. A few "really nice ones" in my budget turned out to be nothing more then shells. hence in the end, an omega view 45d with a mint rotating back came to me.

[DannL-USA]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134902686729

Have you ever looked at one of these? I have not.

[monochromeFan]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/134902686729

Have you ever looked at one of these? I have not.

Ironically i discovered those AFTER i purchased a mamiya 645.... they arent bad choices, but i would not know if it would be wide enough for me to use unless i had it in hand.

[Havoc]

Ironically i discovered those AFTER i purchased a mamiya 645.... they arent bad choices, but i would not know if it would be wide enough for me to use unless i had it in hand.

Wide enough? A 100mm on 6x9 is about the same as the 80mm on your 645 for a point of field of view. But you can have a 50mm for the Mamiya Press which would be about the same as the 35mm of the 645. But you don't have the possibilities of a view camera. It is all about compromises.

[Alan Townsend]

IS there such a thing as starting out with a press camera in 2x3 or 4x5 that isnt going to cost more then a new enlarger? seriously.. what the hell is going on with prices these days..

REAL easy to find a press camera with a roll film back, but not lens or sheet film holder... And its like sheet film holders are a DIY project now.

This is a large format forum, so we only talk about 4x5 or larger formats here. Yes, you can "start out" with a press camera costing far less than the most expensive enlargers. I don't believe there are many enlargers that are new any more other than Intrepid. Prices are somewhat supply and demand related. There seem to be tons of 4x5 press cameras, lenses and cut film holders available for sale on the used market. That's because so many of these were manufactured over the years.

With all large format cameras, the tripod is the accessory that yields the greatest freedom. Hand holding a press camera is very limiting of what you can photograph. Indoors, you will need a large flash unit. Outside, you will be shooting with large apertures (4.5-8) that give very shallow depth of field and need more focusing precision. Hand holding, you will always need a very fast film. Royal-X, which was a popular 1000 speed sheet film, is no longer available. You will need to push process a 400-ish speed film (which are closer to 200 speed in practice), which limits even more. There are reasons the 4x5 press cameras became obsolete during the 1960's, mostly the improving quality of camera films in general, and changes in lithographic printing processes that once favored larger formats for newspaper and other press photographic applications.

Alan Townsend

[monochromeFan]

Wide enough? A 100mm on 6x9 is about the same as the 80mm on your 645 for a point of field of view. But you can have a 50mm for the Mamiya Press which would be about the same as the 35mm of the 645. But you don't have the possibilities of a view camera. It is all about compromises.

actual physical dimensions of the camera itself would be an issue,, honking big glasses wearer here.