How to cut a 500’ roll of bulk film? Anyone with experience?

[Memento Mori]

I just acquired a 500’ roll of Tech Pan. I’m very excited. Question is: has anyone here bought bulk (4x5) and cut it into sheets? Any problems you can warn me about? Any tips? Did it end up being difficult to work with due to the curl?
Also, I’ll find out of course, but in case someone knows…is the emulsion on the “inside” or outside, of the curl?
So far the plan is to acquire an old cast iron paper cutter (they’re cheap, rigid, and cut a clean 90), bolt it to my shop table, add a stop 4” from the blade at the same height, wear lint free gloves, slide/chop/slide/chop…in the dark. Insert into empty film boxes, etc.

Anyone have any empty 4x5 film boxes they could send me? ;+)

[jnantz]

I just acquired a 500’ roll of Tech Pan. I’m very excited. Question is: has anyone here bought bulk (4x5) and cut it into sheets? Any problems you can warn me about? Any tips? Did it end up being difficult to work with due to the curl?
Also, I’ll find out of course, but in case someone knows…is the emulsion on the “inside” or outside, of the curl?
So far the plan is to acquire an old cast iron paper cutter (they’re cheap, rigid, and cut a clean 90), bolt it to my shop table, add a stop 4” from the blade at the same height, wear lint free gloves, slide/chop/slide/chop…in the dark. Insert into empty film boxes, etc.

Anyone have any empty 4x5 film boxes they could send me? ;+)

I haven't bought that exact film but I have bought aero film stored in a mountain cave from MRFOTO1 back in the day and cut it down... it can be tricky if you don't have a jig set up. dont' forget film isn't really 4x5 inches it's a little smaller all around. you might get a handheld paper hole punch to give yourself a notch code it's a bummer trying to figure out which end is up in the dark.

[Memento Mori]

" it can be tricky if you don't have a jig set up. dont' forget film isn't really 4x5 inches it's a little smaller all around. you might get a handheld paper hole punch to give yourself a notch code it's a bummer trying to figure out which end is up in the dark.[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, great point about the hole punch/notch code. I might've forgot all about that. Thank you.
As for the dimensions... Ugh, I guess I'll be checking my last developed negatives for exact numbers.
Since this roll claims 5" on the label and there weren't massive cameras running anything near that, I'm hoping this roll has the exact same width as whatever the 5" dimension is.
I will be very disappointed if I have to cut both sides on every frame🥴
I got a good price for it though, makes the headache worth it either way. Very very cheap per frame.
The seller also has a giant roll of 5" panatomic x, I think... That I'll try and buy as well. I'm a bit spent out at the moment though. We'll see. If I can, and rig up a convenient jig, I could resell a lot and cover my cost. I'll post when and if. Cheers

[jnantz]

Ah yes, great point about the hole punch/notch code. I might've forgot all about that. Thank you.
As for the dimensions... Ugh, I guess I'll be checking my last developed negatives for exact numbers.
Since this roll claims 5" on the label and there weren't massive cameras running anything near that, I'm hoping this roll has the exact same width as whatever the 5" dimension is.
I will be very disappointed if I have to cut both sides on every frame��
I got a good price for it though, makes the headache worth it either way. Very very cheap per frame.
The seller also has a giant roll of 5" panatomic x, I think... That I'll try and buy as well. I'm a bit spent out at the moment though. We'll see. If I can, and rig up a convenient jig, I could resell a lot and cover my cost. I'll post when and if. Cheers

yea I think it's 1/16th inch difference on all edges it's easy enough to measure. it might have been for an aerial camera, and that 5" is really 5" ... like the red sensitive pan atomic x you probably saw.. the same stuff I bought 20 years ago! it'll be an adventure at least :). if it is a pain to trim off the edge look for a kid's IR goggle kit sold at toy stores some people like using those to see in the dark to do this sort of thing, or you might consider making a panoramic box camera . I think the photographer's formulary sells a kit for the special developer people used to get pictorial images with that film shot at slow speeds, tech pan is fun stuff, I love shooting it at iso200 and developing it in print developer to get extreme grainless contrast ..
have fun!

[Carol C]

I assume you have a film tent I use to roll my own 35mm and 120mm tech pan in the film tent. I have a rolling machine that fit inside the film tent. it use to be my favorite film. I don't know if they made 4x5 film cutting roller. might check it out maybe they did and you can find a used one.

[Alan Townsend]

I just acquired a 500’ roll of Tech Pan. I’m very excited. Question is: has anyone here bought bulk (4x5) and cut it into sheets? Any problems you can warn me about? Any tips? Did it end up being difficult to work with due to the curl?
Also, I’ll find out of course, but in case someone knows…is the emulsion on the “inside” or outside, of the curl?
So far the plan is to acquire an old cast iron paper cutter (they’re cheap, rigid, and cut a clean 90), bolt it to my shop table, add a stop 4” from the blade at the same height, wear lint free gloves, slide/chop/slide/chop…in the dark. Insert into empty film boxes, etc.

Anyone have any empty 4x5 film boxes they could send me? ;+)

It's likely aerial camera film, not a bulk loading film. It's on a very thin stock which will make it slip out of the film holders. Put a piece of construction paper, cut to just under 4x5 to make up the space and provide a non slipper surface that will help keep the film from flipping out of the holders. You will not need to cut the 5 inch width, but will need to cut pieces roughly 3.9 inches wide to fit cut film holders. I would not cut the film and put in boxes, but just cut it and put in the empty film holders you have. This way, you will not confuse the emulsion side.

Many years ago (1968-70) I did this quite a bit, but got tired of it and just bought sheet film, which wasn't so expensive back then. As a low speed film, hopefully it will not have too much fog or other technical issues. I had a K2 aerial camera that I used it in, which broke, so I got a speed graphic. The thin film stock and curl make it hard to handle, especially hard to hold flat in an enlarger film holder without using glass, which I always kinda hated. For scanning, it will also be hard to hold flat, I would think.

Good luck, have fun with it,

Alan Townsend

[Memento Mori]

Thanks Alan,for the comment and experience. I’ll find out soon. First, I’m just going to open the Kodak can (it’s a factory sealed black plastic tub so no light has gotten in there) and just cut off a foot or so to play with. Obviously in complete darkness.
Someone mentioned using kids “night vision” goggles, the ones with battery powered infrared lights etc. I’m afraid that being panchromatic film it might get fogged or exposed just by the goggles. After I cut off the foot, put the roll back in the tub, I’ll wear the goggles and give the foot a good dose, develop and see. Depends on what wavelength the goggles use.

It would sure be nice to be able to see what I’m doing.
After that comes everything you mentioned.

I sure hope it’s worth all the headache. TP on eBay is stupid pricey these days. If I can get it all sorted…I’m set, for pennies a frame. I also have access to similar rolls of Panatomic X, so I’m determined to make it work.

Unfortunately I’m stuck far away from my home and equipment for weeks (cancer treatment). Cross your fingers for me on both fronts!

[Alan Townsend]

Thanks Alan,for the comment and experience. I’ll find out soon. First, I’m just going to open the Kodak can (it’s a factory sealed black plastic tub so no light has gotten in there) and just cut off a foot or so to play with. Obviously in complete darkness.
Someone mentioned using kids “night vision” goggles, the ones with battery powered infrared lights etc. I’m afraid that being panchromatic film it might get fogged or exposed just by the goggles. After I cut off the foot, put the roll back in the tub, I’ll wear the goggles and give the foot a good dose, develop and see. Depends on what wavelength the goggles use.

It would sure be nice to be able to see what I’m doing.
After that comes everything you mentioned.

I sure hope it’s worth all the headache. TP on eBay is stupid pricey these days. If I can get it all sorted…I’m set, for pennies a frame. I also have access to similar rolls of Panatomic X, so I’m determined to make it work.

Unfortunately I’m stuck far away from my home and equipment for weeks (cancer treatment). Cross your fingers for me on both fronts!

Mem,

I wonder how you will process this film. Tech Pan is a lot like a panchromatic version of ortho-litho film. It's very high contrast, and used a special developer, I believe the POTA formula very similar. One early exerperiment will be to develop some without exposure, to see how much fog there will be, not sure how good POTA is with high fog, not sure if there will be much fog. Very likely, depending on film age. Then testing for film speed, which is likely to be less now than when fresh.

I would just cut off a few feet, and play with it in the daylight to see how hard it is to cut and get into film holders, or film hangers in the case of after cutting it. The curl will not be as bad at the the beginning of the roll as it will be at the end due to the diameter of the roll. With bad curl that I remember, you have to push down on the center of the film just before the film is fully inserted, to get it to go under the final horizontal guide. The film rolls I had years ago were Tri-x 320 x50 ft. I believe, and were pretty small diameter rolls, like mayby 2-3 inches, but were only about 10 years post expiration dates. At that time, I could get either double-x or tri-x rolls from a surplus mail order company in New York for only a couple of dollars. They were difficult to load in film holders and in film hangars for processing. That was when I first used a Doran style cut film tank that holds 12 4x5 sheets. That loaded easily since the film was curled in the right direction, but requires very diluted chemicals for processing and likely would not work well for tech pan.

Today I use cut down fuji hru green xray film for 4x5 that costs about 11 cents per sheet and a little ortho-litho as well costing 20 cents per sheet, but would gladly tried some of that old aerial film if I could find it. I'm not trying to discourage you at all, just sharing fond memories. I likely had more trouble with the curling due to the much smaller rolls than you will.

Have fun with it,

Alan Townsend

[Memento Mori]

The experiments await!
Thanks again for the anecdotes.
As for development, I’ll be using Pyrocat HD, semi stand…my fave.
Good tip about processing a frame for fog check. I wouldn’t have thought of that.

[jnantz]

The experiments await!
Thanks again for the anecdotes.
As for development, I’ll be using Pyrocat HD, semi stand…my fave.
Good tip about processing a frame for fog check. I wouldn’t have thought of that.

I've never used pyrocatHD, but this is the stuff the formulary sells for that's made for tech pan and shooting it pictorially
it's based on the original Kodak formula and made by William Troop https://stores.photoformulary.com/td-3-techpan-developer/
from what I remember from people who were addicted to this film, it needs to be developed using constant agitation ...
good luck with your treatments!
John

[Tin Can]

There is a current member that made and sold Tiny Format film slitters

My old factory slit everything pretty fast

[Daniel Unkefer]

Cut a few test pieces and make sure they fit your holders. Since it curls towards the emulsion side, no need to notch the film.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52237927063_3c7421eae3_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nA62LT)Film Cutting and Loading Area 5 inch Aero 2402 (https://flic.kr/p/2nA62LT) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

These Linhof holders will hold the film flatter than the Graphic type holders with the thinner Aero films.

[Tin Can]

Curl is a problem

[Daniel Unkefer]

Curl is a problem

Not with Linhof :)

[Memento Mori]

Jnantz, thank you! Between Alan, you, Daniel and the TC…this thread is turning into a goldmine of information on the subject!
I guess I’ll have to get some of that TD3 and add a side by side with Pyro, maybe 4 tests…2 for each chem, 1 shaken, not stirred, and 1 stand.
The Linhof holders is an interesting tip as well.
I guess I’ve got work to do…
Thank you all very much for all of this. I’m off to watch those Flickr links…

Also, Daniel, that black plastic Kodak tub is exactly like the one I have full of TP.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52465697221_80a6018c46_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nWdpUz)SONY DSC (https://flic.kr/p/2nWdpUz) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

You can also do 5x7 with this film. This is 5" Plus-X 2402 Aero processed in D23 1:1. An 8x10 Unicolor Unidrum and Uniroller is what I use for this size. Works great. You don't need to clip the corner, Jim Galli told me that over on Phototrio. But do it if you want to.

Makes a beautiful contact print! Costs about 25 cents a sheet.

[Memento Mori]

All fantastic anecdotes, thank you gents. It's 6 months later and I've built a jig and cut dozens of frames and have done enough tests to be able to count on everything[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji120]

I am very happy to say that the Tech Pan is not that curled, not fogged at all, and I'm shooting it at 20iso and developing in PF's TD-3 with good results.
The other mystery film (3414?) is very thin[emoji15] and fiddly to load into both the film holders and the "B's" reel. I'll have to play with it more as I got better negs from it using the Pyro than the TD-3. I've got probably 1000' of it so I had better sort it out[emoji1787]
It may even want am ISO of 8 or so. No fog though!

Cheers

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[MrFujicaman]

Send Daniel Unkefer a PM. He does this a lot.

[jnantz]

All fantastic anecdotes, thank you gents. It's 6 months later and I've built a jig and cut dozens of frames and have done enough tests to be able to count on everything[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji120]

I am very happy to say that the Tech Pan is not that curled, not fogged at all, and I'm shooting it at 20iso and developing in PF's TD-3 with good results.
The other mystery film (3414?) is very thin[emoji15] and fiddly to load into both the film holders and the "B's" reel. I'll have to play with it more as I got better negs from it using the Pyro than the TD-3. I've got probably 1000' of it so I had better sort it out[emoji1787]
It may even want am ISO of 8 or so. No fog though!

Cheers

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

sounds great ! im glad to hear the film and developer played nice. good luck playing with the fire.

John

[Tin Can]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_acetate_film



All fantastic anecdotes, thank you gents. It's 6 months later and I've built a jig and cut dozens of frames and have done enough tests to be able to count on everything[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji120]

I am very happy to say that the Tech Pan is not that curled, not fogged at all, and I'm shooting it at 20iso and developing in PF's TD-3 with good results.
The other mystery film (3414?) is very thin[emoji15] and fiddly to load into both the film holders and the "B's" reel. I'll have to play with it more as I got better negs from it using the Pyro than the TD-3. I've got probably 1000' of it so I had better sort it out[emoji1787]
It may even want am ISO of 8 or so. No fog though!

Cheers

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Memento Mori]

Hmmm, I wonder. It is in a metal can but not original to that can. The can is labeled 3412 (iirc) but there's tape on it saying "1000' 3414 good June 1993".
Mystery film[emoji16]

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[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53795621755_75001704b3_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2pXJC8V)70mm 500 feet Kodak AeroRecon Plus-X 3414 Razor Sharp Danger (https://flic.kr/p/2pXJC8V) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I got this roll of 500 feet Kodak Aerorecon Plus-X 3414. Be careful handling it, you can get severe paper cuts on the edges!! I could load 250 exposures of this stuff into a Kodak 70mm Film Cartridge (if I wanted too). It kinda handles like Olde EI 80 original Plus-X, with slight differences due to it's emulsion characteristics. GOOD FILM! Kinks easily making half moon black marks! Cheap film, I remember I paid $60 many years ago.

This might be your film too, in a bigger size? Kodak Guys here would know what it is! I use it just like Plus-X of olde.

[Memento Mori]

Sheesh, this "tapatalk" app truly has some pathetic and frustrating issues. I try to add a photo and it wants me to sign in again, which it won't let me do because the credentials I use to sign in again are the same and thus kick back as "there's already an account with that name". Brilliant.

[Eric Woodbury]

Mori, I've cut 8x10 Tech pan to 5x7. Many years ago. It was easy with a paper cutter that I borrowed. Paper cut was a guillotine type and it had a clamp to keep the layers from shifting as they like to do if there is any air between layers. It was much like a small version of a cutter from a print shop. The guy that loaned it to me ran a photo print shop. He made 4x6 color prints for the masses. He used the cutter for cutting stacks of RC color prints. Some of these must still be around. It wasn't any bigger than a foot square. Needs to be really sharp.

Splitting 8x10 to 5x7 allowed me to keep the notches on half the film, altho it appears in the wrong place. Film curls towards the emulsion. Also, to a damp finger, the emulsion side is 'stickier' if you will. Not sure about the roll version. The sheet film is on a thin stock. 35mm version is on thin stock too. What thickness is your roll?

I see that 'guillotine paper cutter with clamp' are available new for under $200. Even new, I wouldn't trust the sharpness without your own personal quality check. All the new paper cutters I've ever bought, linear or rotary, have always been less than sharp. Some aren't square either. Practice on something else first. Wear cotton gloves. Avoid too much pressure, as pressure can expose film.

If you cut single sheets, this may not apply. The film will have a tendency to creep as you cut it.

Tech pan has extra red sensitivity. A caution about IR viewers. There could be some cross-over.

Not sure how you are going to use this film. It is tricky. I used it for N+4 and up. It is almost impossible to get that exposed/developed right. I used dilute developers. But you have a lot of film, so you can bracket a few. Good luck and have fun.

[jnantz]

that's the stuff MRFOTO1 on eBay used to sell .. those were the days .. I think mrfoto talked about esktar base and the rigidity of it ( for memory, I didn't photograph his website and it's Houdini'ed ) .. he "seemed" like an old timer back in 2003! so who knows I think he found a tractor truck of a safe in a cold cave full of film ..

[Tin Can]

One of our still active members used to make and sell film slitters

He made a jig

[Daniel Unkefer]

I remember about five or more years back, one of the German Shoppes had rolls of Five Inch Panatomic-X some type of Recon emulsion very long thin rolls. I was SORELY tempted, after all 4x5 and 5x7 Panatomic-X?? Cmon Now! A roll was a bit over $900 US Dollars, never did bite, it was FRESH Panatomic-X. Oh Well.

[Memento Mori]

Ouch. What is that great Mark Twain quote...“Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do." Ain't that the truth.

[Jody_S]

I remember about five or more years back, one of the German Shoppes had rolls of Five Inch Panatomic-X some type of Recon emulsion very long thin rolls. I was SORELY tempted, after all 4x5 and 5x7 Panatomic-X?? Cmon Now! A roll was a bit over $900 US Dollars, never did bite, it was FRESH Panatomic-X. Oh Well.

I have a roll (still unopened), don't remember what I paid for it but I can guarantee you it wasn't $900...

[jnantz]

I have a roll (still unopened), don't remember what I paid for it but I can guarantee you it wasn't $900...

I know! mr foto 1 sold me 100 foot rolls of pan x aero recon film AND cut them down to 8x10 for me I think I paid 50$ a pop, 900$, that's a lot of little liver pills ..

[Memento Mori]

Jody... If you ever open it... Maybe you'll be in the mood to share[emoji16] or a trade! That would be fun, I could send you 50' of Tech Pan, you send me 50' of P-x.

(Just planting seeds... [emoji16][emoji847])

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[Jody_S]

Jody... If you ever open it... Maybe you'll be in the mood to share[emoji16] or a trade! That would be fun, I could send you 50' of Tech Pan, you send me 50' of P-x.

(Just planting seeds... [emoji16][emoji847])

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Thanks, but no. Pan-X was my favorite film growing up, and I have a couple boxes of tech pan that I've never bothered opening either.