Paper safes

[Bob Kerner]

I’m looking for a paper safe that will accommodate up to 11x14. It looks like paper safes in general are a rarity; I see them sold in only two stores and the closest size is 12x16.

Is there such a thing as an 11x14 paper safe, or should I just get the 12x16 and deal with the extra bit of size?

Is there any reason to avoid the used market, beyond the fact that the couple I found were within $5 of a new one? I’d be concerned about cracks in something that’s maybe been lying around in someone’s basement etc.

Thank you.

[JMO]

Note that Ilford FB Cooltone paper comes as 12x16in, and not (I believe) as 11x14, so if you might want to use Cooltone you'd like to have a safe that can accommodate up to 12x16. Otherwise, I've always appreciated the extra bit of room in my 12x16in safes for the various types of 11x14 paper I use. Another long-time LFer and darkroom printer also advised me to not buy safes designed for 8x10in papers, as it's just as easy to buy the 12x16in size safes and use them for either the 8x10 or 11x14in papers.

[Bob Kerner]

Another long-time LFer and darkroom printer also advised me to not buy safes designed for 8x10in papers, as it's just as easy to buy the 12x16in size safes and use them for either the 8x10 or 11x14in papers.

Ok then, you drilled right down to the origin of my question! I took a printing class last week. Instructor recommended getting a paper safe for efficiency. It’s a community darkroom so you don’t want to be wasting time fiddling with the box and black wrapper bag. She said to get 11x14 not 8x10 for exactly the reason you just wrote……you can use the bigger box for multiple sizes, but not the other way around.

[wclark5179]

Freestyle has a few:

https://www.freestylephoto.com/search?q=Paper+safe

For decades I used the box the paper came in and kept it in a drawer, wrapped in the black plastic bag that came with the paper.

[Pieter]

The paper safe I have for 11x14 measures 12x16.

[John Layton]

If you want space to accommodate up to 12x16 inch paper - just make sure that the boxes' inside dimensions will be large enough.

In other words, if I had this (12x16 paper) requirement and saw a listing for a paper safe which "measured 12x16 inches," I'd want to know if these were the physical dimensions of the outside or inside of the box (neither of which would work), or if the box were truly designed to accommodate 12x16 paper, in which case the inside dimensions of the box will be somewhat larger to allow for smooth and safe paper handling. Make sense?

[David E. Rose]

In my experience, the cabinet style metal safe with multiple shelves and a spring loaded front door is much nicer to use than the two-piece plastic style with the plastic hinge on the short side that always seemed to break off. The best answer would be a light tight drawer in the enlarger base cabinet, I have seen plans for those but never made one.

[Kevin Crisp]

Try Craigslist. Often sellers don't know what they are so won't actually list them, but if you search for "darkroom" (and "dark room") you can see photos of piles of old darkroom stuff and spot an occasion paper safe. You know the type of seller, unloading dad's hypo-stained print dryer. Premier made or might still make them. Their style has the very strong spring door. My favorite is by "Brumberger," ("Brooklyn 33, New York") which has a segmented roll up/down door like you'd see at a loading dock. I suspect mine is from the 60s. They do save time when printing and from time to time when you need a quick place to stash film so you can turn the light on they work for that too.

[David E. Rose]

Do a search for “darkroom paper safe”, there is a nice Brumberger available for $90

[John Layton]

Those Brumberger safes are nice (I've owned a couple) - but they can get rusty with age, especially when used for extended periods in damp darkrooms. So be careful!

[Bob Kerner]

It needs to be portable. I’m traveling by mass transit to a community darkroom. The Brumberger might be a bit awkward on the A train.

[Oslolens]

In my experience, the use of a paper safe is too costly when light is turned on at the wrong moment

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[phdgent]

I always used the box wherein the paper came.
But to be sure I lined the box with some extra black paper and made an inner cover with a sheet of black paper having the right size of the inner part of the box.
Just some DIY will do...

[John Layton]

Oh...mass transit? Yeah, too risky for a plastic paper safe...to awkward/dangerous for a heavy clumsy Brumberger...so just use the paper box and make sure the inner black bag is tightly sealed. A bit less convenient when on site but at least you'll have good paper to work with!

Alternately...is there a way to safely leave a supply of paper at the community darkroom? Are there lockers available there?

[Tin Can]

I never travel, never a problem

I love my CHEAP Plastic Paper AND X-Ray Paper/X_Ray Safes

Clean, no light leaks, they stack

I bought mine at least 10 years ago

They all are oversize, 3 up to 22X26" inside

Free Shipping!

[Bob Kerner]

Oh...mass transit? Yeah, too risky for a plastic paper safe...

Why do you say that John? The one I used had a fastener (Velcro?) on the end to keep it from popping open. I could also run a strap across the top.

I’m just trying to be efficient with my time and not fiddle around with the box and bag each time I make a print. The darkroom only has a couple of these and it’s first come first served. Just trying to be self sufficient to the greatest extent possible.

[Duolab123]

I use the Brumberger models. A 11x14 Brumberger is huge, as big as a microwave oven. I have a bunch of different paper safes. The easiest to use are the clamshell like black plastic models. These are still available (I think), best found used and local. Keep it empty, when you want to print put in your paper and go. Use two different papersafes one exposed one fresh.
All these things can be left cocked open a bit, the clasp on the plastic things if left at a 45° angle will hold the lid up just enough to ruin your day.

[John Layton]

Bob...I'm just imagining myself in a crowded bus or subway car - doing my best to protect a fragile plastic paper safe. Perhaps if it could be placed into a slightly larger cardboard box...or even a single compartment, padded equipment case? Hmmm...

But I could not imagine myself schlepping a Brumberger around on mass transit!

[Pieter]

If you buy a paper safe new, it comes in a cardboard box that could be used to transport it. I would add a strip of gaffer's tape to keep the lid closed, too. Are you carrying a negative file as well? How do you transport your finished prints--are they dry or still damp in a blotter book? If so, a Granny cart might be useful. I don't think a 12x16 paper safe would fit in a backpack.

[Bob Kerner]

I bring the negatives in Besfile binder- box. Only the ones I’m working with. Developed prints, contact sheets etc go home in same box. Darkroom has a print dryer so they are not wet.

I transport this stuff in a knapsack or tote bag. The paper safe would go in the knapsack/tote with the Besfile binder.

I didn’t realize these things were fragile. The one I used was not metal, for sure, but it also didn’t feel like it was going to be delicate.

[Torquemada]

on the premier paper safes, does anyone ever actually get the "mechanical system" to actually dispense a sheet of paper when they open it, as is claimed by the company?

[Pieter]

I bring the negatives in Besfile binder- box. Only the ones I’m working with. Developed prints, contact sheets etc go home in same box. Darkroom has a print dryer so they are not wet.

I transport this stuff in a knapsack or tote bag. The paper safe would go in the knapsack/tote with the Besfile binder.

I didn’t realize these things were fragile. The one I used was not metal, for sure, but it also didn’t feel like it was going to be delicate.
They are not delicate, probably 2.5mm sturdy plastic, would only break if something heavy fell on one or it was dropped on a corner. I suggested gaffer's tape to keep the lid from accidentally opening. The lid is held in place with velcro. Some brands have a latch instead, but I would throw a piece of gaffer's tape on it anyway.

[Gord Robinson]

on the premier paper safes, does anyone ever actually get the "mechanical system" to actually dispense a sheet of paper when they open it, as is claimed by the company?

I have an 8x10 Soligor paper safe that dispenses a sheet of paper when you pull down the door tab. Mine works fine but i had to make a couple of adjustments when I got it because it was missing two of the lead weights on the arms. If yours does not dispense a sheet of paper check and make sure these weights are in place. If they are not there they may be in the bottom of the paper safe if they have come loose

[phdgent]

A little question purely out of curiosity: does this 'dispensing' of these paper saves also works with, the somewhat heavier, fiber paper?
And what if the fiber paper is slightly curled (when coming straight out of the box)?

[Mark Sampson]

When I worked at Kodak, paper safes were necessary, since the enlargers were all in darkrooms separate from the ones where the print processors were. Lots of walking! So we had many paper safes; the best ones (as I recall) were made by Doran, simple hinged boxes, but we had several diifferent types.
I could use a few of them now; Foma paper comes in awkward plastic bags and flimsy envelopes, and the Ilford boxes are shallow. That all makes me more careful when handling paper in the dark, which is good; but it's still an annoyance.

[Renato Tonelli]

A little question purely out of curiosity: does this 'dispensing' of these paper saves also works with, the somewhat heavier, fiber paper?
And what if the fiber paper is slightly curled (when coming straight out of the box)?

Mine is fiddly with fiber; works fine with RC.

[Maris Rusis]

Not all paper will work easily with a paper safe. The latest Ilford Multigrade FB Classic photographic paper in the 8x10 size has a curl so strong that it could defeat any paper safe. I have to use a spare 250 sheet box just to contain 125 sheets in the black plastic bag and still get the lid to stay on properly.

[Pieter]

Not all paper will work easily with a paper safe. The latest Ilford Multigrade FB Classic photographic paper in the 8x10 size has a curl so strong that it could defeat any paper safe. I have to use a spare 250 sheet box just to contain 125 sheets in the black plastic bag and still get the lid to stay on properly.
Must be the climate. I have no problem at all with it, though I only put about 25-50 sheets in the paper safe at a time. Just as a matter of caution--in case the paper safe gets knocked off the shelf or I have a brain fart and open it with the lights on. Although neither has ever happened (yet).

[phdgent]

Must be the climate. I have no problem at all with it, though I only put about 25-50 sheets in the paper safe at a time. Just as a matter of caution--in case the paper safe gets knocked off the shelf or I have a brain fart and open it with the lights on. Although neither has ever happened (yet).

But, and correct me if I am wrong, I think that the climatic circumstances while packing (in the factory) could play a role too, after all, the paper comes boxed and packed in a closed plastic bag.
And the curling I encountered, repeatedly, was when opening a fresh 50 sheets box of 24x30cm paper bearing the same emulsion number.

For the sake of completeness I should point out now to only speak about the FOMABROM FB III paper.

[John Layton]

Sometimes, in my attempt to deal with edge-curling of unexposed photo paper...I'll take whatever batch I'm loading into my paper safe (typically ten or so sheets), and rearrange them so that they're face face and back to back - an orientation which helps to "cancel out" the forces of curling. But then again, I remain a bit concerned about any deleterious effects of having emulsion sides facing each other and getting too "friendly."

Hmmm...maybe some thin interleaving would help - which I could save and use for each batch? And perhaps go the extra mile by sliding a thin sheet of something like aluminum (as a weight) on top of the batch in the paper safe...which I'd remove for each printing session? Kind of a PITA maybe, but then again...

[Pieter]

Sometimes, in my attempt to deal with edge-curling of unexposed photo paper...I'll take whatever batch I'm loading into my paper safe (typically ten or so sheets), and rearrange them so that they're face face and back to back - an orientation which helps to "cancel out" the forces of curling. But then again, I remain a bit concerned about any deleterious effects of having emulsion sides facing each other and getting too "friendly."

Hmmm...maybe some thin interleaving would help - which I could save and use for each batch? And perhaps go the extra mile by sliding a thin sheet of something like aluminum (as a weight) on top of the batch in the paper safe...which I'd remove for each printing session? Kind of a PITA maybe, but then again...
Curling has never presented any problem for me. In fact, it makes it easy to identify the emulsion side in the dark. My easel handles the curl without issues, and one the paper is wet, it is a moot point.

[Conrad . Marvin]

Curling has never presented any problem for me. My easel handles the curl without issues, and one the paper is wet, it is a moot point.

In fact.

[phdgent]

In fact.

Yes, curling isn't a problem, should not be (I don't know for the good working of paper safes), and a good easel can do wonders (and is certainly not a element to disregard)...

[Martin Aislabie]

I use a 12x16 Paper-safe for my 11x14 paper and enjoy the room around the outside of the paper which I seem to need to lift the paper out.

My 12x16 paper-safe is a simple plastic unit with a bottom, a clamshell type lid and a mechanical lock on the lid.

As with most of my stuff, I like the simplicity of it and think it has been one of the best things that I ever bought for the darkroom.

I prefer its simplicity over the more complicated 10x8 paper-safe, with its paper delivery system, that I was gifted some years ago.

Martin

[bob carnie]

I am trying to make my own paper safe ... 34 x 44 inches any good MGuiver Ideas that I could consider?

[Pieter]

I am trying to make my own paper safe ... 34 x 44 inches any good MGuiver Ideas that I could consider?
Some of the darkroom books had plans for a paper safe built in to a drawer. Caution: copyrighted material from The New darkroom Handbook, Focal Press 1998.

245448

[Renato Tonelli]

Some of the darkroom books had plans for a paper safe built in to a drawer. Caution: copyrighted material from The New darkroom Handbook, Focal Press 1998.

245448

This is what I built under my enlarger table to hold paper up to 20x24 with some wiggle room to spare. Works well.

[Conrad . Marvin]

I built a drawer with a sliding top many years ago that is fit under my enlarger table and closes when the drawer is pushed in.
If you make a smooth slot on the sides and front of the drawer it will be easy enough to pull to open. The biggest problem that I had was the back which wanted to leak light when the drawer was closed. As I remember I used some black felt and had to stiffen the top so that it wouldn’t bend up in the middle. It was for large paper but I soon started to use it all of the time and put my Brumberger safe in the closet where it remains. If you can do it or find someone to help you make it, I really recommend it.

[Mal Paso]

I am trying to make my own paper safe ... 34 x 44 inches any good MGuiver Ideas that I could consider?

MGuiver is a bad example. None of his tricks like making an electromagnet from a brass faucet work without a special effects department.

Under my enlarger are more brackets to hold the baseboard lower. No space for a Brumberger so I got some of those clamshell paper safes. I've seen at least 3 different brands on the same safes. They are probably made by the same vacuum molding company.

[phdgent]

I am trying to make my own paper safe ... 34 x 44 inches any good MGuiver Ideas that I could consider?

There is a light and easy to handle PVC material used to mount prints which is flame retardant, different thicknesses and should exist in black too, can be cut with a Staley knife, and glued together. We used to call it FOREX but that is the brand name...

[Gord Robinson]

If you have the space and you use more than one type of large paper you could look for a Stacking 4 or 5 Drawer Map Plan Flat File Cabinet. They are close to the dimensions of your paper and seem to be available through government surplus sites. Making them light proof if they aren't already may be an issue

[Ron McElroy]

There is a light and easy to handle PVC material used to mount prints which is flame retardant, different thicknesses and should exist in black too, can be cut with a Staley knife, and glued together. We used to call it FOREX but that is the brand name...

I believe that the material you are referencing is sintra board and it does come in black.

[Roger Thoms]

I believe that the material you are referencing is sintra board and it does come in black.

Aka foamed PVC board.

Roger

[bob carnie]

If you have the space and you use more than one type of large paper you could look for a Stacking 4 or 5 Drawer Map Plan Flat File Cabinet. They are close to the dimensions of your paper and seem to be available through government surplus sites. Making them light proof if they aren't already may be an issue

Hi Gord. I do have stacking metal drawers in my lab, I have thought on how to do this , they are certainly big enough and made of metal

[Pieter]

Hi Gord. I do have stacking metal drawers in my lab, I have thought on how to do this , they are certainly big enough and made of metal

I would think you could make a light-tight box with a lid hinged halfway the fits in the drawer, maybe out of plastic/acrylic.

[bob carnie]

I would think you could make a light-tight box with a lid hinged halfway the fits in the drawer, maybe out of plastic/acrylic.

I am going to investigate this , thanks

[Tin Can]

Blueprint cabinets