Need recommendations on f/4.5 lens of about 150mm

[westpost]

I am looking for an f/4.5 lens for a 4x5 camera of about 150mm. Although I appreciate the finer things in life, in this case I am looking merely for a lens that is average, rather than top of the line. Specific recommendations appreciated.

Thanks!

[notorius]

Given the input parameters (f/4.5) an old Tessar 15 (or 13,5) cm would be my candidate. Movements will be very limited for 4x5 though. I would not rate is average. I would say classic instead. :)
In the f/5.6 rank there would be much larger selection of lenses and manufacturers to choose from. And my pick would be Fujinon 135 or 150. http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm

[westpost]

I currently have a Graflex Crown Graphic with an Ektar 152mm f/4.5 lens, and am looking into possibly getting a Sinar Norma monorail instead. Can I use the Ektar on the Sinar Norma? If so, what is involved in mounting a lens onto a different lens board? Are tools necessary? Please keep in mind that I am a beginner.

[Ulophot]

Hi, Westpost. Others will offer more expert advice than mine, but here's what I can share.
If you're going to a Norma, I expect that you'll find more need of coverage that with the Graflex. This depends, of course, on what kind of images you wish to make, but one of the points of using a monorail camera is the increased movements flexibility in comparison with most flatbed cameras. "Coverage" is the size of the image circle projected on the film-- the larger it is, the more you can move the film within it, or move the circle by tilting, swinging, or shifting the lens, without one or more film corners coming to the circle edge and starting to vignette. The Tessar lens design is restricted in this aspect; the image circles are smaller than other designs offer.

Regarding lens mounting, if your lens is currently mounted in the shutter with a screw-on retainer ring in the back, it is a fairly straightforward matter to remove it and mount it onto a new board, as long as the new board has a hole large enough, but not too large, to accommodate it. In my experience, the back element group of the lens is unscrewed and removed, then the retaining ring, then the shutter adn front element group can be removed from the board. Mount the shutter/lens front in the new board, screw on the retaining ring, and reassemble. Again, others will supply more details.

In your place, I think I might forego the extra half-stop advantage for more lens coverage and wider possibilities.

[westpost]

In your place, I think I might forego the extra half-stop advantage for more lens coverage and wider possibilities.

In this particular case, I am using the camera to do wet plate collodion, and since that has an ISO of approximately 1, it is necessary to use a lens with a very wide aperture. f/4.5 is the minimum aperture necessary.

[paulbarden]

In this particular case, I am using the camera to do wet plate collodion, and since that has an ISO of approximately 1, it is necessary to use a lens with a very wide aperture. f/4.5 is the minimum aperture necessary.

One of my personal favorites for wet plate work is the 203mm Kodak Ektar f7.7 which works perfectly well for the purpose. I wouldn’t get too obsessed in the search for a large aperture lens when any decent lens will work as well.

[Dugan]

Schneider-Kreuznach 150mm f/4.5 Xenar (or an f/3.5 one if you can find one...)
Wollensak 6 3/8" (162mm) f 4.5 Velostigmat (uncoated) or Raptar (coated).

[BrianShaw]

Look into Kodak Anastigmat No 31 or 32. 140mm and 160mm focal lengths, if I recall correctly. Might meet your needs. Quite affordable if you use one in barrel rather than shutter. Excellent lens for its era.

You can easily move your Ektar to another camera’s lens board and use it. Easy to do. There are plenty of information on internet to instruct you.

If you plan on using both cameras it’s a lot more convenient to have separate lenses on each respective lens board.

[tundra]

Reading down thread, I notice your concern is lens speed moreso that "average" optics.

A bit shorter than you like, but you might consider a Zeiss Jena 135mm f/4.5 or a Kodak Ektar 127mm f/4.7. I own the latter lens and it is a superb performer.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51934923850_b7dad04f42_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n8j4ty)Makiflex TMX100 Kodak Readyload 545 D23 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8j4ty) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

TMAX100 4x5 Readyload 545 Back Makiflex D23. Omega DII with Omegalite laser aligned Arista RC #2 paper Multigrade dev. Digital background shot by Tim Layton and enlarged at Cosco. Studio overhead lighting. 150mm f4.5 chrome barrel Schneider Xenar. Great lens I bought for fifty bucks.

[Kiwi7475]

If you spend some time searching for "Petzval F3" (or F4 if you prefer) at the auction site you will find many options for old petzvals and projection lenses of various price ranges covering around 150mm. It doesn't have to be a Dallmeyer or any of the major names, I'm sure any of those will be plenty good for the goals you describe, and at ~F3 about a stop faster than F4.5.

[paulbarden]

Look into Kodak Anastigmat No 31 or 32. 140mm and 160mm focal lengths, if I recall correctly. Might meet your needs. Quite affordable if you use one in barrel rather than shutter. Excellent lens for its era.

For years, I used a Kodak Anastigmat No. 31 (https://flic.kr/p/2h4Fh1m) (5.5") for 4x5 wet plate work and found it quite excellent. It's relatively low contrast is a very good match for the tonal scale of Collodion. I bought mine for about $100 in a working Compur dial-set shutter.

[Mark Sampson]

Perhaps you can find an adapter board to use your 152/4.5 (in its Speed Graphic board) on the Sinar. That would be the best of both worlds. I've never seen such a adapter, but they may exist: if not, a repair shop could easily make one. Maybe Richard Ritter or SK Grimes could help.

kiwi7475's advice about Petzval-design brass lenses is good- if you want the 19th-century look popular among wet-platers.

[westpost]

If you plan on using both cameras it’s a lot more convenient to have separate lenses on each respective lens board.
The plan is to keep only the Sinar.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I'd put your 152mm on a flat Norma Green Board, might have to cut out the right sized hole though. Norma boards do pop up on Ebay fairly frequently. Maybe one will come with your Norma?

[westpost]

kiwi7475's advice about Petzval-design brass lenses is good- if you want the 19th-century look popular among wet-platers.


Can I use a barrel lens with the Sinar Norma? I don't think it has a focal plane shutter.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I'd get a lens in shutter, or refit the one you already have. Sinar Norma made a shutter, it's generally expensive.

[Dan Fromm]

Can I use a barrel lens with the Sinar Norma? I don't think it has a focal plane shutter.

There are several ways to use barrel lenses. For long exposures, anything opaque in front of the lens will do. Hats are often suggested. Remove, count time, replace.

For short exposures, depending on the lens, an adapter to hold the lens in front of a leaf shutter or a leaf shutter in front of the lens. I have both types.

[BrianShaw]

Can I use a barrel lens with the Sinar Norma? I don't think it has a focal plane shutter.

Yes. You’d have to use a lens cap or fedora to expose your film/plate. With long exposure times that is easy.

[Kiwi7475]

Can I use a barrel lens with the Sinar Norma? I don't think it has a focal plane shutter.

You’re shooting at ISO 1, a 3D printed lens cap will be fine!

[Tin Can]

Used to be a No NO to link to any eDont


I'd get a lens in shutter, or refit the one you already have. Sinar Norma made a shutter, it's generally expensive.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p3519243.m570.l1313&_nkw=sinar+norma+board&_sacat=0

Or maybe this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/186191758551?hash=item2b59e4c4d7:g:1w4AAOSwqxdla2NB&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4MZY4D4SXOtP9y6TEtq8RhWkmmXPwVmI5xgOOX8x%2FEGjk%2BQ78cIdSzoGGnxhpi0tuD2Rjs7pe31hRTtcAZ4kSo1P0Cj6O6v2JEN1rKCVztA%2BG%2B3%2B5hhfxkoMeMS%2B%2BsNJYmmyqjzvJIGyChmuG%2FNqeLOBubZlJRHHvbspR%2Ftt2n82CQakNnnfAiY%2BX0ZdWw%2BW4%2B6FlS6dAkAccN8wLG04wnzZZDvDNFi1deu%2BND1Y911yB07N5Ah1FK0oRZoNKz7xGsQE%2B91e0p0E%2B4HMzTzKyMgEI6N%2Fgu9dg94gc8Fn9QoS%7Ctkp%3ABFBM4MqLh5pj

[Tracy Storer]

Search "150 lens shutter" on Ebay, MANY MANY inexpensive (but good quality) offerings.

[gypsydog]

I own a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 16.5cm f3.5 in Compound, it is a lovely fast lens.

[maltfalc]

there are literally tons of old 6" or 7" f/2.8 or 3.5 projection lenses out there for dirt cheap that would work just fine.

[Dan Fromm]

there are literally tons of old 6" or 7" f/2.8 or 3.5 projection lenses out there for dirt cheap that would work just fine.

Do they cover 4x5?

[Tim Meisburger]

Why are you buying the Norma, if you are planning to shoot wet plate with a 150mm lens? Why not just use the Crown Graphic? Or trade it in on a Speed, so you have a focal plane shutter that will work with cheaper shutterless lenses? The Norma is a beautiful camera (I used to have one), but straight on will yield exactly the same images as the Crown.

If you plan to shoot collodion in a studio, or in your back yard, you would be better off with a 5x7 or 8x10 camera. A 5x7 plate is much nicer than 4x5, and if you want to enlarge collodion negatives, you can easily adapt a 5x7 holder to shoot 4x5 plates. My advice (worth just 2 cents in today's inflated economy) would be to use what you have to learn the process, and then if you find you love it, get a bigger camera. Good luck!

[Vaidotas]

It seems nobody mentioned triplets.
Taylor Hobson Cooke Anastigmat series II in this focal lenght (shutterred) is not rare find.
Dallmeyer, Ross, Wray, Zeiss, Meyer (and others) made them.

[John Layton]

Jeesh...all of these choices! The New Yorker magazine ran an article a few years back about the "paradox of choice," presenting a good argument that when confronted with an overload of choices, a potential customer may just quit looking altogether. A great example would be toothpaste...literally hundreds of choices - when you just need some...toothpaste for crying out loud!

I'd like to make a suggestion: There is a decent looking 180mm f/4.5 Xenar listed (for what looks like a decent price) in the For Sale section of this forum. This would offer you the speed you are looking for, plus give you more coverage than a 150mm 4.5 Xenar (or other Tessar type lens), and so would be a more viable option for a camera with greater movements....such as the Norma you'd mentioned.

[maltfalc]

Do they cover 4x5?

most standard triplet or tessar fixed focal length projection lenses should cover 4x5 at a 6"/150mm or longer focal length, depending on how much you care about fall-off. there are some planar projection lenses with better coverage if you know what to look for.

[xkaes]

If you spend some time searching for "Petzval F3" (or F4 if you prefer) at the auction site you will find many options for old petzvals and projection lenses of various price ranges covering around 150mm. It doesn't have to be a Dallmeyer or any of the major names, I'm sure any of those will be plenty good for the goals you describe, and at ~F3 about a stop faster than F4.5.

Along these same lines, you might already have what you need to make a 150mm f4.5 -- and not know it.

If you attach a #1 CU filter to the front of a #3 shutter and a #5 CU filter to the rear of the shutter, you have a 167mm f3.7 lens.
If you attach a #2 CU filter to the front of a #3 shutter and a #5 CU filter to the rear of the shutter, you have a 143mm f3.2 lens.

If you attach these to a smaller (#1) shutter, the f-stop will be smaller (f4.5?), but in any case, not only will you have a great soft-focus lens when used wide-open, stopped down the results will be amazingly sharp.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/softfocus.htm

[mdarnton]

180/2.8, just in case the idea tickles you. Explanation below photo. It sharpens up as stopped down, of course.
. . . . https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaeldarnton/26275968925/