Best 8x10 camera for ultra-wide angle?

[Vaughan]

Hello

There are LOTS of posts asking about which wide angle lens is best for 8x10, my question is: which 8x10 *camera* is best for ultra-wide.

I have a Toyo Field 810M and a Fujinon NSW 125mm f8 which almost covers 8x10. (Don't judge me, I purchased the lens for 5x7 before I bought the 8x10.) Anyway, I like ultra-wide in general, but the lens is a pain to use on the Toyo with the bed appearing in the frame: yes the bed can be dropped down and the standard tilted up etc but those movements make the camera a real pain to use, as all the geometry of the optical axis changes when the focus is adjusted.

I have an old unbranded, probably Japanese, wood 5x7 folding field camera camera that allows the rear standard to be moved forward for focus (I dunno the correct technical term for this) so the front standard can be left at the front preventing the bed from appearing in the frame even with a 75mm lens.

Are there 8x10 cameras similarly made? I'm looking at putting a Nikkor SW 120mm on it which will better cover 8x10 than the Fujinon and be a little wider to boot.

[RichardRitter]

A custom built camera.
It has short rails. The front focus and the back can be reposition on the rear rail. This would keep the front and rear rail out of the image.
Bellow would be both pleated and has a bag.
Length of rails and bellows 18 inches.
I have built a few this way.

Richard

[Tin Can]

Depends on distance to subject

This 8X10 studio shot with KODAK Magnesium 8X10 KMV





SCHNEIDER 120MM F5.6 APO-SYMMAR MC COPAL 0 LENS
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51901774335_feff5a6b6e_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/V4nYktrKe7)2 Minutes to Midnight (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/V4nYktrKe7) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[DannL-USA]

"Rear Focus" can be found on many view cameras from the past. A very handy feature to have. The minimum focus distance will probably depend on if the bellows will collapse enough.
244850

[Mark J]

Gandolfi ( Precision ) does this. On my 5x7 one, you can use a 105mm in portrait format no problem, I think same would be true of a 90.

[Willie]

Deardorffs have the rear standard that moves forward on the bed. 120 Nikkor works just fine - with one exception. The Bellows is compressed and movements aren't easy other than rising and falling lens using the moving mount.(where the lens board can move up and down a bit)

Extreme wide angle lenses generally don't have much extra coverage so not having much movement may not be a problem.

From experence with a 4x10 back on the 8x10 Deardorff I know a 90mm Super Angulon XL is OK on the camera. Covers the 4x10 negative - again the bellows is tight.

[Oren Grad]

"Best" 8x10 camera for this specialized use? Off the top of my head:

Short-bed non-folding cameras:

1. Tachihara 810 Super-Wide. Minimum extension of 75mm, maximum 230mm. Very hard to find, alas, though I've seen it turn up on eBay once in a very blue moon.
2. Korona 8x10 Wide Angle Camera. According to the Pierce Vaubel site, it was offered only from around 1925-1931. I've seen exactly one of them for sale over the years.
3. Ebony SW810. Easier to find than the prior two, but very expensive if you do. Extension 105mm min, 380mm max.
4. Shen-Hao TFC810-A. Extension min 85mm, max 450mm. Available new, has become pricey.

Box cameras:

5. Adapt a box camera or have one built, since you don't have room for movement anyway. I have an 8x10 Hobo that I had adapted to mount a 120 Super-Angulon in focus helical.

EDIT:

Of course, you can cobble together a wide-angle camera from one of the monorail systems, using a short rail and a bag bellows. I've done it with Sinar, though I ended up never using it in the field because the front/rear standards I had on hand for 8x10 were P rather than F, which made it quite heavy.

[ic-racer]

Shen-Hao FCL 810-A can focus 75mm and likely even shorter lenses too. It can bring the lens all the way back to the ground glass (something the TFC810 can't do). Of course it is a great camera for everything else too.
With the 75mm, in landscape orientation, the bed is not in the view when set up like the first picture.

Compared to the Hypergon, the Fujinon 125mm is no problem and it works fine with standard bellows. (second picture).

244851
244852

[Michael R]

Maybe a Walker XL 8x10? The Walker XL cameras are designed/intended primarily for short focal length use. It might be difficult to find one of these used/cheap though, but maybe it will at least give you some ideas. http://www.walkercameras.com/XL_8x10.html

[Oren Grad]

Maybe a Walker XL 8x10? The Walker XL cameras are designed/intended primarily for short focal length use. It might be difficult to find one of these used/cheap though, but maybe it will at least give you some ideas. http://www.walkercameras.com/XL_8x10.html

Just checked the Walker price list - at the current exchange rate, the Walker XL is actually quite a bit less expensive than the Shen-Hao TFC that I mentioned.

[Michael R]

Just checked the Walker price list - at the current exchange rate, the Walker XL is actually quite a bit less expensive than the Shen-Hao TFC that I mentioned.

That’s interesting - I hadn’t even bothered to check and just assumed it would be expensive (like everything these days) relative to something like a Shen Hao. I briefly owned a Walker 4x5 SF which was quite reasonably priced at the time but that was more than a decade ago.

[Michael Jones]

Not knowing what movements OP needs, the people behind the 75mm Hypergon have a short focus ‘quick shot’ camera supporting ultra wides on 8x10: the eco810ss.

https://elevanfilm.com/product/eco810ss/

[Oren Grad]

Box cameras:

5. Adapt a box camera or have one built, since you don't have room for movement anyway. I have an 8x10 Hobo that I had adapted to mount a 120 Super-Angulon in focus helical.

Forgot about Morten Kolve's "Will Travel" cameras:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333790645038

https://film.kolve.org/darkroomdiy/will-travel-friendly-cameras/

[domaz]

My 8x10 Gowland can easily focus the Nikkor 120mm. It's a simple lightweight rail camera design. The focusing rail itself isn't very long and you can position the front and rear standards basically however you want so the rail doesn't get in the way. The only limiting factor in this design is the bellows.

[Kiwi7475]

125mm shouldn’t be too much of a challenge for many 8x10 cameras. For example the Chamonix focuses the Nikkor SW 120mm f8 just fine without showing the front of the camera. Monorail based systems like Arca Swiss and others also do this without issues. I think where it gets tricky once you get below the 120mm mark… like with the Schneider 110XL; not only because of obstruction from the camera’s front but also because the compression of the bellows. And the Hypergons, of course, which is another level of difficulty.

[Vaughan]

Thanks for your suggestions. I should have mentioned that zero movement are required other than the ability to centre the lens.


Compared to the Hypergon, the Fujinon 125mm is no problem and it works fine with standard bellows. (second picture).

How is the coverage of the Fujinon NSW 125mm lens on 8x10? I was getting dark corners but it may have been incorrect entering the lens axis over the film.

[Mark J]

On paper it doesn't look good. The 1997 catalogue shows it as a 96° coverage which means 280mm diameter. 8x10" is around 310 to 312 . Maybe they were aiming for the 82mm front filter size or something.

[Vaughan]

On paper it doesn't look good. The 1997 catalogue shows it as a 96° coverage which means 280mm diameter. 8x10" is around 310 to 312 . Maybe they were aiming for the 82mm front filter size or something.

Indeed. The older writing-on-front Fujinon SW 120mm f8 has a slightly larger 290mm circle. The Nikkor SW 120mm f8 has 312mm which should cover 8x10 fully, and give Nikon's often conservative specifications should do better when stopped down further that f16. The Nikkor 120mm is reasonably cheap too.

Note that the Fujinon 125mm is a very nice lens for 4x5, 5x7 and 6½x8½.

[diversey]

My widest 8x10 lens is Nikkor SW 120mm too. I use it on my Deardorff V8. This lens just barely covers 8x10, almost no movement. If you use screw-in round filters and they may cause dark corners due to light blockage. I have to use square sheet filters to avoid dark corners.

[Dave Wooten]

I have an 8x10 W Svedovsky, 120mm to 400 mm. Check them out
Also a custom Ritter built specifically for this application is more than a wee bit enticing

[Axelwik]

Maybe some of the old tail board cameras. Nothing to get in the way forward of the lens board, and with some the rear standard can be moved pretty close. With the bellows compressed my old Ansco Universal is right at 120mm, lens board to ground glass. I have the same lens, but haven't tried it on the Ansco yet (use it for 5x7).

[David Lindquist]

Maybe some of the old tail board cameras. Nothing to get in the way forward of the lens board, and with some the rear standard can be moved pretty close. With the bellows compressed my old Ansco Universal is right at 120mm, lens board to ground glass. I have the same lens, but haven't tried it on the Ansco yet (use it for 5x7).

This was essentially the case with the Calumet C-1. I used my 110 mm Super-Symmar XL on mine. The lens was mounted on a Calumet 4 x 4 inch board; the C-1 adapter for these boards was itself recessed. Of course the bellows was quite compressed but the coverage of the 110 mm didn't really allow for movements. There was the C-1's notorious issue where the shorter the lens the more the rear part of the bed tended to get in ones way for composing and focussing.

Sold the C-1 some years ago as I was getting too old to carry it about.

David

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

My 8x10 Deardorff can handle a 75mm Biogon. Of course the lens won't cover the format, but I love the circle.

244870 244871

[Tin Can]

Love round!

Your porch is almost like mine!




My 8x10 Deardorff can handle a 75mm Biogon. Of course the lens won't cover the format, but I love the circle.

244870 244871

[fuegocito]

Are there 8x10 cameras similarly made? I'm looking at putting a Nikkor SW 120mm on it which will better cover 8x10 than the Fujinon and be a little wider to boot.

I think any cameras that can move the rear standard independently toward the front(hence avoiding the protruding front rail/bed) should in theory get the Nikon SW120 to focus . Obviously there are specific short bed SW cameras, like this Svedovsky: http://svedovsky.com/cameras/8x10w-camera/ Or the lot more expensive and if can be found in the open second hand market, Ebony SW 810

Personally I use a Deardorff(Rear standard being able to go forward but the best part, the lens board panel that can do a bit of up/down shift) and if when necessary a Sinar, but really that just in theory when one is thinking of needing extreme movements, but in my shooting anyway, with ultra wide, I almost never need to employ any movements.

[Tin Can]

I am thinking convert a Pin Hole box to close up with a bit of focus

I shoot in studio

[jnantz]

a hobo

[Drew Wiley]

Non-folding compact wooden cameras with short racks and bag bellows are one excellent option. I think Ebony was the first to offer these. But many monorail cameras can be configured that way too. Just use a short rail section and a bag bellows.

[John Kasaian]

If the OP is considering an old woody tail board, make sure the front standard can take the weight.
Those wide lenses can be heavy.

[domaz]

If the OP is considering an old woody tail board, make sure the front standard can take the weight.
Those wide lenses can be heavy.

Some are, some aren't - my Taylor Hobson Cooke VIIb 159mm f/6.5 covers 8x10 with no issue and it's about the same weight as your typical 120mm Angulon in a shutter. A Super Angulon that can cover 8x10 is a different story...

[Robert Opheim]

John Kasian is absolutely correct about lens weight. I found out years ago the hard way, with a 12 inch Wollensak Velostigmat mounted on a wooden tail board camera. I broke the front standard of the camera - and had to glue it together.

[Andrew O'Neill]

For field cameras, you'll want one who's rear standard slides forward toward the lens. This is one of the main reason I picked up a Canham.

[cp_photo]

For field cameras, you'll want one who's rear standard slides forward toward the lens. This is one of the main reason I picked up a Canham.

I was intrigued to see the Canham JMC810 metal 8x10" camera has a minimum bellows extension of 69.5 mm, which is remarkable!

https://canhamcameras.com/8x10metal.htm

[AuditorOne]

For what it is worth my poor old Conley No 1 8x10 allows my to slide the rear standard forward so you don't see the front rails with a wide angle. It is a bit loosey goosey now so it takes some care to get everything aligned for focusing but it is still light tight. :D

The design allows me to run the rear standard backwards on a separate rear set of tracks if I need more draw on the bellows but I never found a need for it when I use my 12 inch Dagor. To be honest I am not even certain how much draw I can get as I have never used the rear rails.

[Rod Klukas]

The Arca-Swiss 8x10 with a short rail and the wide angle bellows, performs great, even with the rather poor quality in the corners, 120mm lenses. But it is superb with the 150mm to 165mm lenses.

[Dave Wooten]

Www.svedovsky.com
8x10 W

I have this one

[Robert Opheim]

I was thinking about a 8x10 wide angle camera as well. I ended up with the question - do I need a bag bellows or not? Then does the camera needs to have both bag bellows and standard bellows? Will I ever need much movement with a wide to very wide lens? Currently my lenses don't have large coverage maybe 325mm to 350mm coverage. I would need to purchase a really big piece of glass to use much in the way of movements on 8x10. 165mm 210mm Super Angulon, 150mm Nikon SW, 155mm Grandagon, for example. Years ago I had a tailboard wood camera that I broke the front standard by using a heavy lens on. I have a C-1 Calumet that is heavy, and the bed is in the way with wide lenses but it gets the job done.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51484462408_71e2220c85_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mrvjYY)8x10 Sinar Norma Julius Shulman Titlall Setup 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2mrvjYY) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Best is subjective. 8x10 Sinar Norma on modded early Leitz Tiltall. Don't bump it and it's fine. And I can pick this up and carry it, it's relatively portable for quick placement. 121mm F8 Schneider Norma Super Angulon. Covers 18x24cm nicely, hyperfocal focus bigger circle covers 8x10 in a pinch. Camera is infinitely extendable and nearly a hundred accessories were available. This rig is great for quick set-ups and avoiding screw ups. TTL 8x10 Sinar Norma Sinarsix metering eliminates exposure errors which can compound with expensive 8x10 film.

[Ben Horne]

The rear standard of my Chamonix Alpinist X 8x10 slides forward so the lens can be positioned closer to the front of the focus bed. I use my Nikkor SW 150mm with ease, and the stats on the Chamonix website say the minimum bellows draw is 60mm. There may be some other factors at play when it comes to ultra wide lenses, but I'm amazed at how versatile this camera is, especially since it can also handle my 600mm lens, is extremely lightweight and extremely rigid. IMO, one of the best 8x10 cameras ever made.

[Vaughan]

The rear standard of my Chamonix Alpinist X 8x10...

Don't tempt me Frodo!

[earlnash]

How about a pinhole 8x10?

[Greg]

How about a pinhole 8x10?

Taken with 8x10 pinhole camera. Focal Length around 90mm.

[Tin Can]

DIY

Use all of these great ideas

Pinhole is a lens

I may use Magnesium C1 back and box

To load one film or paper

Test with 4X5 and 5X7 as I have the set

[Vaughan]

How about a pinhole 8x10?

Toyo bellows.

[Scott Davis]

Another vote for a Canham 8x10. I have the wood field version, and as with any Canham, you can slide the rear standard forward. Keith sells a bag bellows for it if you want to go super-wide.

[wouthazel]

Taken with 8x10 pinhole camera. Focal Length around 90mm.

What kind of hole size does this pinhole have? Nice sharp image for a pinhole.

[neil poulsen]

I would definitely go for a rail camera and NOT a flatbed. I can think of three options, all of which I've owned at one time or another. Rail cameras have the option of a shorter rails to make it more compact with less weight.

The best, easiest to find option in my experience would be a Sinar P or a Sinar F 8x10 with an F2 front standard that has long risers meant for the 8x10 camera. (I owned the P 8x10, but not the F 8x10.) For a lighter weight rear standard, Sinar made an 8x10 P base intended for copy work that weighs a lot less. But, they are hard to find.

A second option would be a Sinar Norma 8x10 with a Norma 8x10 bag bellows. These are relatively light-weight, and one can purchase extenders for the front standard risers from www.glennview.com. (This avoids having to tilt the rail for greater extension. They screw in at the top.)

A third option might be an Oschwald era Arca Swiss 8x10 with a bag bellows. The problem with these is that, there's little enough room on the front risers for extended rise, without having to tilt the rail up. My solution for this was to have S. K. Grimes rebuild the silver front risers to make them longer. (They did a fabulous job; I couldn't believe it.) But, the fabrication cost would be greater than $6C.

[Mark J]

DIY
Pinhole is a lens


You wash your mouth out with soap !
There are lens designers on here.

A pinhole is a stop.

[Greg]

What kind of hole size does this pinhole have? Nice sharp image for a pinhole.

thanks...
Measured the camera and focal length is more like 100mm. My notes list the starting pinhole size of being 0.0138 inches. I know that I had replaced the original pinhole at least once to optimize the sharpness so I'm guessing it is around 0.0130 inches diameter. Shim metal used was .002 inch brass. I had found that the thickness of the metal shim material matters a whole lot.