Selecting 4x5 camera for Long Tele application Longest bellow possible ?

[Wall-H]

Hi Expert,

Most likely this will fall under ridicules request but is there any 4x5 system out there that will allow me bellows to 800 to 900 mm ?
Following are the details.

Location : 100% in studio.
Lenses: Nikkor-T ED 360/500 mm (may be 800 mm)
Intended Formats: 4x5 films, Digital back.

I'm currently on Cambo Actus system and i found that Longest bellows is 450 mm and not available unless i special order and i can buy another used cambo at the price of that bellows. So before i start selecting my 4x5 film, I'd like to check if it is even possible to have that long bellows on 4x5 ?

Thanks,
Rahul

[xkaes]

There are plenty of 4x5 cameras that allow you to add on extra bellows (and rails to support them), but you can easily use many tele lenses with much shorter bellows because REAL telephoto lenses have flange focal lengths much shorter than their optical focal length. For example, I use a 600mm Fujinon T lens on my 4x5 which has 360mm of extension without any problem. To go to the 800mm-1000mm range, you'll need a camera that has a much longer bellows or one that can expand.

Another option is simply to get as long as you can with whatever camera and bellows you have -- and then CROP.

[rfesk]

The Sinar (and others) allows you to use intermediate standard(s) to connect two or more bellows for as long as you want.

[Wall-H]

There are plenty of 4x5 cameras that allow you to add on extra bellows (and rails to support them), but you can easily use many tele lenses with much shorter bellows because REAL telephoto lenses have flange focal lengths much shorter than their optical focal length. For example, I use a 600mm Fujinon T lens on my 4x5 which has 360mm of extension without any problem. To go to the 800mm-1000mm range, you'll need a camera that has a much longer bellows or one that can expand.

Another option is simply to get as long as you can with whatever camera and bellows you have -- and then CROP.

Thank you. I'm trying to avoid crop. So with Nikkor-T ED 500 mm, i've FFD 350 mm. Hoping that by 400mm, i'll be able to focus inside my studio (so more as i'm not focusing on infinity). But if i'll go to 800mm then i'll be at 1:1 reproduction ratio. At least that is my hope.

[Wall-H]

The Sinar (and others) allows you to use intermediate standard(s) to connect two or more bellows for as long as you want.

Thank you. Is there any specific name for that intermediate standard? May be once i find the name of that accessory that i'll search for and then i'll know. I'm trying to narrow down my search by selecting extreme criterias. I believe the Sinar components are hard to find (for someone new like me who doesn't even know names of some of accessories.).
IMore i'm searching i'm inclining towards Linhof Technikardan which i don't think will work with this system but Appreciate if you can help me with name or some more brands than Sinar ?

[Mark Sampson]

A Sinar will be better for your needs than the Technikardan. It's a modular system that you can configure to meet your varying needs- the TK is more a standalone field camera (although a versatile one).
Sinars were very popular with commercial photographers in the USA, and there is a lot of used gear around for sale (unlike some other competitive brands). And there are a number of people here who are very familiar with the several different Sinar models and the many accessories. We're happy to help, too.
Since you're in Chicago, have a look at glennview.com. That guy has lots of stuff and a great deal of knowledge.

[Wall-H]

A Sinar will be better for your needs than the Technikardan. It's a modular system that you can configure to meet your varying needs- the TK is more a standalone field camera (although a versatile one).
Sinars were very popular with commercial photographers in the USA, and there is a lot of used gear around for sale (unlike some other competitive brands). And there are a number of people here who are very familiar with the several different Sinar models and the many accessories. We're happy to help, too.
Since you're in Chicago, have a look at glennview.com. That guy has lots of stuff and a great deal of knowledge.

Thank you very very much. For sure i'll write email and get in touch with this person. I think i'm learning more about photography in last few days i'm on this site than i learned in last few years outside of this website. Thank you ... !!!!!

[B.S.Kumar]

Thank you. Is there any specific name for that intermediate standard? May be once i find the name of that accessory that i'll search for and then i'll know. I'm trying to narrow down my search by selecting extreme criterias. I believe the Sinar components are hard to find (for someone new like me who doesn't even know names of some of accessories.).
IMore i'm searching i'm inclining towards Linhof Technikardan which i don't think will work with this system but Appreciate if you can help me with name or some more brands than Sinar ?

For an 800mm extension, you definitely need a monorail camera.
Sinar, Toyo, Cambo all made intermediate standards, as I think others also may have. They're called "Intermediate Standards" - surprise!
I have these standards (and cameras and other accessories) for these three brands.
Wista did make a tele-macro rail for very long extensions with their metal field cameras. I think I have some of the components, but I have to confirm.

Send me an email if you'd like to discuss further.

Kumar

[rdenney]

Yup, Sinar really is the way to go. If cost-constrained, look for a Sinar F2, which will come with a 12” rail standard. Extensions come in 6”, 12”, and 18” lengths, and screw together end to end as needed. For 800mm, you may want two tripod adapters and at least a support leg under the second one. Two standard bellows connected by an intermediate standard should do the trick.

If you need precision geared movements, look for a Sinar P instead of the F.

And the older Norma is even more beautifully made and nearly all the components are interchangeable, so a Norma intermediate standard will work fine on an F or a P. But Norma cameras in good shape are getting pricier than P models, which can be had cheaply. Example: I bought a Sinar P Expert Kit in its case for $300 three or four years ago. The Expert Kit already has the rail extensions.

Nothing else is as reconfigurable and versatile for the money (or really any amount of money), and the low prices on the used market are because of relatively abundant supply not and problem with quality. But these were used by pros so condition has to be carefully checked.

Rick “Science, Industry, Nature, Architecture, Reproduction” Denney

[B.S.Kumar]

If the OP wants to use a digital back on the 4x5 camera, the Sinar F2 wouldn't be my first choice. A Sinar X or P2 would be better. The X doesn't have the annoying zero detent on the shift and rise movements and allows smooth shifting. At extreme extensions, one wants as much rigidity as possible, particularly with digital.

Kumar

[Wall-H]

For an 800mm extension, you definitely need a monorail camera.
Sinar, Toyo, Cambo all made intermediate standards, as I think others also may have. They're called "Intermediate Standards" - surprise!
I have these standards (and cameras and other accessories) for these three brands.
Wista did make a tele-macro rail for very long extensions with their metal field cameras. I think I have some of the components, but I have to confirm.

Send me an email if you'd like to discuss further.

Kumar
Thank you. Sent email.


Yup, Sinar really is the way to go. If cost-constrained, look for a Sinar F2, which will come with a 12” rail standard. Extensions come in 6”, 12”, and 18” lengths, and screw together end to end as needed. For 800mm, you may want two tripod adapters and at least a support leg under the second one. Two standard bellows connected by an intermediate standard should do the trick.

If you need precision geared movements, look for a Sinar P instead of the F.

And the older Norma is even more beautifully made and nearly all the components are interchangeable, so a Norma intermediate standard will work fine on an F or a P. But Norma cameras in good shape are getting pricier than P models, which can be had cheaply. Example: I bought a Sinar P Expert Kit in its case for $300 three or four years ago. The Expert Kit already has the rail extensions.

Nothing else is as reconfigurable and versatile for the money (or really any amount of money), and the low prices on the used market are because of relatively abundant supply not and problem with quality. But these were used by pros so condition has to be carefully checked.

Rick “Science, Industry, Nature, Architecture, Reproduction” Denney
Thank you.

[Tin Can]

4X5 to 11X14
75" bellows

I mostly shoot 610mm and 900mm


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50792670886_d7f2b16fc3_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/62wh8537c5)Deardorff S11 New Bellows (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/62wh8537c5) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51661786413_79f2a7a3df_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mHbaep)Beauty Lighting 790mm F14 Apo Ronar 5x7 Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2mHbaep) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Setting up to use the big 790mm F14 Apo Ronar on the 5x7 Sinar Norma. 47 inches of bellows extension equals 1 1/2 stop bellows factor. Will try some horizontals, using HRU XRay and also Ilford Ortho Commercial. I placed a large order for 13x18cm B&W (buying a variety) from PhotoImpex in Germany. Should be shipping soon as Ilford delivers to them 13x18 Delta 100. Ordered FP4+, Fomapan 200, Fomapan 100, Adox CHS 100 II, and Delta 100 all in 13x18 format. I have plenty of 13x18cm Sinar Norma holders

[Jim Jones]

For someone who isn't locked in to off-the-shelf equipment, consider this: much of the extension from film to lens doesn't need to be a bellows. A stove pipe or black plastic drain pipe can be trimmed or extended to great length and probably be easily adapted to the front of many of the cameras mentioned above. I've used drain pipe to extend the reach of a camera about 20 feet.

[jnantz]

For someone who isn't locked in to off-the-shelf equipment, consider this: much of the extension from film to lens doesn't need to be a bellows. A stove pipe or black plastic drain pipe can be trimmed or extended to great length and probably be easily adapted to the front of many of the cameras mentioned above. I've used drain pipe to extend the reach of a camera about 20 feet.

Hi Jim

It's funny you said this, I was thinking "telescopic drain pipe" when I read the original post, and there you go .. thanks !
John

[xkaes]

Thank you. I'm trying to avoid crop. So with Nikkor-T ED 500 mm, i've FFD 350 mm. Hoping that by 400mm, i'll be able to focus inside my studio (so more as i'm not focusing on infinity). But if i'll go to 800mm then i'll be at 1:1 reproduction ratio. At least that is my hope.

If the 500mm has a FFL of 350mm, you'll need 350mm + 500mm (850mm) to reach 1:1 -- but 800mm will be darn close. So all you need is a tiny crop for 1:1.

[Mal Paso]

Cambo SF currently at 42 inches but I'm looking at an extension.

244748

[darr]

For someone who isn't locked in to off-the-shelf equipment, consider this: much of the extension from film to lens doesn't need to be a bellows. A stove pipe or black plastic drain pipe can be trimmed or extended to great length and probably be easily adapted to the front of many of the cameras mentioned above. I've used drain pipe to extend the reach of a camera about 20 feet.

I agree with this suggestion, especially if you have a fixed studio setup where the distance between the film plane and the subject remains constant.

I utilize an ALPA camera equipped with metal extension boxes in my digital medium format setup.
While it's not a drain pipe, it follows a similar design concept: no bellows and the distance remains fixed unless I incorporate additional extension boxes.

https://cameraartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/alpa-digitizing-tools.jpg

I have used this same setup on a tripod for macro shooting slices.

[Wall-H]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51661786413_79f2a7a3df_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mHbaep)Beauty Lighting 790mm F14 Apo Ronar 5x7 Norma (https://flic.kr/p/2mHbaep) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

Setting up to use the big 790mm F14 Apo Ronar on the 5x7 Sinar Norma. 47 inches of bellows extension equals 1 1/2 stop bellows factor. Will try some horizontals, using HRU XRay and also Ilford Ortho Commercial. I placed a large order for 13x18cm B&W (buying a variety) from PhotoImpex in Germany. Should be shipping soon as Ilford delivers to them 13x18 Delta 100. Ordered FP4+, Fomapan 200, Fomapan 100, Adox CHS 100 II, and Delta 100 all in 13x18 format. I have plenty of 13x18cm Sinar Norma holders
Great. These pictures are very helpful in terms of studio space needed perspective. Thank you.


For someone who isn't locked in to off-the-shelf equipment, consider this: much of the extension from film to lens doesn't need to be a bellows. A stove pipe or black plastic drain pipe can be trimmed or extended to great length and probably be easily adapted to the front of many of the cameras mentioned above. I've used drain pipe to extend the reach of a camera about 20 feet.
Thank you.


4X5 to 11X14
75" bellows

I mostly shoot 610mm and 900mm


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50792670886_d7f2b16fc3_b.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/62wh8537c5)Deardorff S11 New Bellows (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/62wh8537c5) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr
Thank you.


If the 500mm has a FFL of 350mm, you'll need 350mm + 500mm (850mm) to reach 1:1 -- but 800mm will be darn close. So all you need is a tiny crop for 1:1.

Yup. Thank you.


I agree with this suggestion, especially if you have a fixed studio setup where the distance between the film plane and the subject remains constant.

I utilize an ALPA camera equipped with metal extension boxes in my digital medium format setup.
While it's not a drain pipe, it follows a similar design concept: no bellows and the distance remains fixed unless I incorporate additional extension boxes.

https://cameraartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/alpa-digitizing-tools.jpg

I have used this same setup on a tripod for macro shooting slices.
Got it. Thank you. This helps a lot. I've serious health issue and I'm limited to what amount of weight i can pick. I'd to sell beloved 400 2.8 as result of that. So getting hallow can as fixed extension works great for me. I'm pretty clear of what i'm looking for so, I guess, I'll have to start taking measurements of bank balance and hollow extensions to get that 1:1 focus.
Thank you all.

[Oren Grad]

Thank you. I'm trying to avoid crop. So with Nikkor-T ED 500 mm, i've FFD 350 mm. Hoping that by 400mm, i'll be able to focus inside my studio (so more as i'm not focusing on infinity). But if i'll go to 800mm then i'll be at 1:1 reproduction ratio. At least that is my hope.

Why do you need 1:1 if, per the discussion in the other thread, your interest is in portraiture? 1:1 on 4x5 means recording only a portion of someone's face, not even a tightly-cropped complete head shot.

If what you're really after is, say, head-and-shoulders shots, then 1:2.5 or 1:3 should be all that you need, and that will make finding a suitable camera setup much easier.

[Wall-H]

Why do you need 1:1 if, per the discussion in the other thread, your interest is in portraiture? 1:1 on 4x5 means recording only a portion of someone's face, not even a tightly-cropped complete head shot.

If what you're really after is, say, head-and-shoulders shots, then 1:2.5 or 1:3 should be all that you need, and that will make finding a suitable camera setup much easier.

Great point. Basically that's what i shot before, and that's what i like to shoot. I'm okay not shooting in 4x5 film if i can't get that setup. I was happy in my Nikon D850 200mm F/4 macro 1:1 world till a concept/idea came up for which i needed to use Scheimpflug principle and I got into MFDB inferno.

I've love hate relationship with film but when i take some pictures like below,
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=244736&d=1702515481
I feel i should take these on film too.
So go forward, I'm trying to get 2 systems.
1. Phase 1 IQ3 100mp : Via Cambo Actus or with something similar to that with ~ 300mm to 400 mm i can achieve this Full frame 200 F/4 one to one macro. Other thread helped me with This point. I'm nearly there and I'll keep IQ3 100 and continue digital set up.
2. On 4x5 film : I don't want to make mistake that i did with Cambo. I entered into system without knowing bellow and system calculations. If i don't find the set up, i don't want to make move. I'd love to but i'll rather find details first. I'm hoping other thread will help me get to gear so i can shoot 4x5.

I hope this helps. I'm not professional, if i don't take this picture, no one going hungry at home so if i get this info, great but i don't want to cause any inconvenience to anyone.

[Dan Fromm]

So go forward, I'm trying to get 2 systems.
1. Phase 1 IQ3 100mp : Via Cambo Actus or with something similar to that with ~ 300mm to 400 mm i can achieve this Full frame 200 F/4 one to one macro. Other thread helped me with This point. I'm nearly there and I'll keep IQ3 100 and continue digital set up.
2. On 4x5 film : I don't want to make mistake that i did with Cambo. I entered into system without knowing bellow and system calculations. If i don't find the set up, i don't want to make move. I'd love to but i'll rather find details first. I'm hoping other thread will help me get to gear so i can shoot 4x5.

I hope this helps. I'm not professional, if i don't take this picture, no one going hungry at home so if i get this info, great but i don't want to cause any inconvenience to anyone.

1. Huh? 1:1 on an IQ3 100mp? Do you really want to shoot a subject the size of the IQ3's sensor? You've been talking about shooting models. At 1:1 you'll capture 53.4 mm x 40 mm of a model. On the face of it, this is ridiculous. When you write 1:1, what do you mean?

2. You want a long rail 4x5. The humble Cambo SC system is modular, uses rails that are 1" square. You can make a rail for an SC as long as you want, and cheaply, out of 80/20 brand t-slotted extrusion, size 1010. Cambo sells intermediate standards for connecting one bellows to another. Or you can use normal ordinary 4x5 SC standards. They're cheap, but heavier than the intermediate ones. So are bellows. Support will be a problem. And so will shooting models, if that's what you want to do. You'll have to convince them to hold poses for as long as it takes you to get the composition you want and go through the close the shutter, cock the shutter, stop down to shooting aperture, insert film holder, pull dark slide and shoot bit.

If you shoot 4x5 at 1:1, you'll get a 4x5 inch bit of model. Larger than 53.4 mm x 40 mm, but is that what you want?

And why do you want to use a tele lens? They make sense only for short cameras.

[Vaughan]

If you're doing studio work then get a monorail system that's effectively unlimited in extension, given enough rails, intermediate standards and bellows units. IMHO the Toyo 45G is a good, comprehensive system that's now reasonably cheap. Original Toyo bellows are notorious for leaking so plan to buy them new: they can be purchased in frames ready to go, or as naked bellows to DIY into existing frames.

[Wall-H]

1. Huh? 1:1 on an IQ3 100mp? Do you really want to shoot a subject the size of the IQ3's sensor? You've been talking about shooting models. At 1:1 you'll capture 53.4 mm x 40 mm of a model. On the face of it, this is ridiculous. When you write 1:1, what do you mean?
If you shoot 4x5 at 1:1, you'll get a 4x5 inch bit of model. Larger than 53.4 mm x 40 mm, but is that what you want?

ok. When i say 1:1 i mean that completely in Nikon full frame Nikkor 200 mm F/4 True macro 1:1 lens mounted on D850. For me it means around 5 ft from model, i see this image. If that is not 1:1 if it is something else then i stand corrected. This look is what i'm looking for.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=244740&d=1702515587
and that is what i'm trying to achieve. Minimum 5ft and probably not more than 10 ft distance from model covering as much as you see in above picture. That's all i need. I don't mean to confuse anyone (Though i'm super confused.) . I agree with your points but this is example image i'm looking for.


Support will be a problem. And so will shooting models, if that's what you want to do. You'll have to convince them to hold poses for as long as it takes you to get the composition you want and go through the close the shutter, cock the shutter, stop down to shooting aperture, insert film holder, pull dark slide and shoot bit.
Yeah. That is not a problem at all. First up, i don't have to convince them at all. It's models who talked me into this film stuff because they want these pictures. I suspect that they brainwashed me into this film. All models i work with, LOVE film. We have markers placed on ground. Plenty of strobes filling room. Shooting at F16 to F22. I picked the string method from this forum. Focusing is not easy but that is not problem for me as much as this bellow thing + Good models hold the poses. I've seen 8x10 wet plate photographer taking count of 10 and getting decent sharp picture with good model. Thank you for heads up though.


And why do you want to use a tele lens? They make sense only for short cameras.
I agree. This is not much sensible. But i believe i can make it count. I put Nikon 400 2.8 on Hasselblad X1Dii 50c. Via converter, it resulted in 319 mm 2.2. I'd to handhold ~14 lbs lens and later put it on gimble and took picture of bird on manual focus. It was totally worth it. I'm tele photographer. I'm really not into normal or wide photography. You help me with this camera/gear set up i need, I owe you jaw dropping picture ..
So far with each of these gear updates (Nikon to Hasselblad to Phase one) me and my team (model and make up artists) see significant improvement (not just technically but overall) in pictures we are taking. I'm hoping this 4x5 would be the last jump on gear side before we start concentrating all efforts on creative side.

[Vaughan]

I put Nikon 400 2.8 on Hasselblad X1Dii 50c. Via converter, it resulted in 319 mm 2.2. I'd to handhold ~14 lbs lens and later put it on gimble and took picture of bird on manual focus. It was totally worth it. I'm tele photographer. I'm really not into normal or wide photography. You help me with this camera/gear set up i need, I owe you jaw dropping picture ... I'm hoping this 4x5 would be the last jump on gear side before we start concentrating all efforts on creative side.

If you're into tele then large format will not meet your needs.

[Dan Fromm]

ok. When i say 1:1 i mean that completely in Nikon full frame Nikkor 200 mm F/4 True macro 1:1 lens mounted on D850. For me it means around 5 ft from model, i see this image. If that is not 1:1 if it is something else then i stand corrected.

Oh, dear, that's not what 1:1 means. Please go away, learn the common language, and then come back. Trying to help you when you don't understand what you're told is as waste of your time and ours.

[Tin Can]

Dan

Be

Polite

Please



Oh, dear, that's not what 1:1 means. Please go away, learn the common language, and then come back. Trying to help you when you don't understand what you're told is as waste of your time and ours.

[rfesk]

Actually what you are talking about is a long focal length lens - not a tele-lens. That is a special lens design that allows short(er) bellows than normal for cameras that don't have enough bellows for the normal long focal length lens.

[Dan Fromm]

Dan

Be

Polite

Please

Thanks for the request. No offense taken.

[Oren Grad]

ok. When i say 1:1 i mean that completely in Nikon full frame Nikkor 200 mm F/4 True macro 1:1 lens mounted on D850. For me it means around 5 ft from model, i see this image. If that is not 1:1 if it is something else then i stand corrected.

1:1 refers to the magnification of your subject relative to the sensor/film size. So 1:1 with a 35mm or full-frame digital camera would mean that you are filling the frame with a subject roughly 1 x 1.5 inches. That's clearly not what you have in mind.

Horses for courses: I adore film and I'm happy to see more people using and enjoying it, but 4x5 is not an especially practical choice if one is bound and determined to make studio portraits using a focal length ~4.5x the format diagonal, like that 200mm on your D850. Your life will be much easier, and you are likely to achieve a higher yield of usable results, if you just get a Fujifilm GFX camera together with the 250mm GF lens. If you really want the "flavor" of film with a larger size than 35mm, a Mamiya RZ67 with the 350mm Apo-Sekor will give you that with modern camera conveniences that make your studio shooting workflow smoother.

If you are determined to try 4x5, I would recommend starting with a focal length that's longer than the format diagonal but short enough to work well for portraits with an ordinary field or monorail camera with standard bellows - say a 210 or a 240 - and see what you can accomplish with that before you start piling on the rail sections, intermediate standards and extension bellows to build a big contraption that will be a regal pain to use.

[xkaes]

If you were at 1:1 with your 200mm Nikon lens, the camera would be about eight INCHES from the subject. In the case of a person, the only thing you could see in the viewfinder would be ONE EYEBALL.

If you were at 1:1 with a 200mm large format lens, you would still be eight inches away, and the only thing you could see on the ground glass would be TWO EYEBALLS -- since the film is much larger.

Take Dan's idea and go to your local library, and flagellate yourself with a book on photography.

[Wall-H]

If you are determined to try 4x5, I would recommend starting with a focal length that's longer than the format diagonal but short enough to work well for portraits with an ordinary field or monorail camera with standard bellows - say a 210 or a 240 - and see what you can accomplish with that before you start piling on the rail sections, intermediate standards and extension bellows to build a big contraption that will be a regal pain to use.
Thank you for this input. Very valuable.

[Wall-H]

Please go away, learn the common language,
I saw your profile and this forum is for you and your friends. I’ll leave you in peace. I’ll not post any questions anymore.
I’ve picture in mind and i made genuine mistake in getting carried away and putting question. I should have refined it and posted it with clear communication. Apologies from me for wasting time of the experts here.
There were very valuable inputs that i received from other people.
I’d like to retain access to that valuable information.

They could have been as kind as polite and Class act like you but they didn’t and i’m thankful to them about it. I’’d also like to send my questions to people in messages & I still see need to be in forum for acquisition of some gear. Hopefully this thread will not get deleted. But in nutshell, I've no interest to listen to your wisdom. You'll not hear from me.


Take Dan's idea and go to your local library, and flagellate yourself with a book on photography.
I received this book just enough late for me to get blessed with politeness of expert on this site. I'll read this book and i’ll post no further questions as promised above.
244780

[Wall-H]

I was being polite earlier and did not respond but there is this sense that, this is not generally done or this is not reasonable and as much as i'd like to hear it as wisdom there are some judgements


1. Huh? 1:1 on an IQ3 100mp? Do you really want to shoot a subject the size of the IQ3's sensor? You've been talking about shooting models. At 1:1 you'll capture 53.4 mm x 40 mm of a model. On the face of it, this is ridiculous.
You mean to say, Ridiculous in your opinion.

And why do you want to use a tele lens? They make sense only for short cameras.
Again, in your opinion.

If you were at 1:1 with your 200mm Nikon lens, the camera would be about eight INCHES from the subject. In the case of a person, the only thing you could see in the viewfinder would be ONE EYEBALL.

If you were at 1:1 with a 200mm large format lens, you would still be eight inches away, and the only thing you could see on the ground glass would be TWO EYEBALLS -- since the film is much larger.
Again. If i find that composition worthy of taking picture, Why i shouldn't try ?

There is whole world out there. Fashion. Beauty. I was hoping to find some of those photographers here because It is done for long time.
Since you people mentioned about me going to library and reading few books and getting educated, How about you checking photographer named Albert Watson and book or project named Moroc ? He did this either 1993 or 1998. I believe but entire project was done on film. (At least he said he did it on film).
That book is not easiest to find but i found this picture on his website.
244781
please search "Editorial Beauty campaign for Dior or channel or any make up brand or on link below.
https://anneofcarversville.com/fashion/2022/8/7/rouge-dior-forever-lipstick-campaign
https://www.lofficielbaltic.com/editorials/a-day-in-life

It was mistake asking for options to see "what would it take to do it." Whether to go ahead and do it can be decided. I'm very grateful for all the inputs given but Neither i forced anyone to spend time and respond nor i offered my judgement about work of other people or their take and questions and answers.
I kept quiet and moved to next thread.
This world is full of surprises and beautiful things and TONs of opportunities to learn (even from new people because usually their head filled with crazy ideas. They are not institutionalized by practicalness) till you keep your judgement with you. Just because someone don't speak your "common language" could mean they simply struggle at communication rather than users of "tiny camera"

[Wall-H]

There is this whole AI thing and flooded tools to make models skin plastic and instagram influencers creating schools about make up to put shiny powders on kids faces saying glamour.
As a fan of this art, it hurts.
I'm going to do something about it.
I'm going to go to timeless classic. Film.
When people see the picture, it should leave no doubt.
It's not retouched in crazy plasticky manner. It is not created by AI.
It's done right in the click itself. 4x5 film.
It's not going to be easy but i'm going to try and do it and i can't do it alone.
I need help, i need wisdom and that's why i posted this question.
That's why i tried to find out about this. I'd no intention of wasting anyones time .. (like it matters to judgmental people) but it matters to me that i put out what i was trying and why.

[Dan Fromm]

There is this whole AI thing and flooded tools to make models skin plastic and instagram influencers creating schools about make up to put shiny powders on kids faces saying glamour.
As a fan of this art, it hurts.
I'm going to do something about it.
I'm going to go to timeless classic. Film.
When people see the picture, it should leave no doubt.
It's not retouched in crazy plasticky manner. It is not created by AI.
It's done right in the click itself. 4x5 film.
It's not going to be easy but i'm going to try and do it and i can't do it alone.
I need help, i need wisdom and that's why i posted this question.
That's why i tried to find out about this. I'd no intention of wasting anyones time .. (like it matters to judgmental people) but it matters to me that i put out what i was trying and why.

All this is well and good but you're going about learning what you need to know -- not necessarily what you think you want to know -- the wrong way. The bulletin board -- that's what online forums are -- is a poor medium for learning. Posters who ask apparently simple questions that want book length answers. Short, often incorrect, usually incomplete answers.

This forum's parent site has much information, in the form of articles, about many aspects of LF photography. Root around there, you might find enlightenment. It also has a somewhat hidden resource, an annotated list of links to information of interest to LF photographers. The first post in this discussion https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses has a link to the list. By the way, "the list" contains a list of the most recommended books on LF photography. The list also mentions A. A. Blaker's book Field Photography. This is the best introduction to photography I've encountered. I like it so much that I've given copies to friends who were starting out. 35mm centric, but the ideas presented generalize to all formats.

Re what you're trying to accomplish. You're the only person you have to please. No one here much cares about your artistic goals. They're yours. We all recognize that there's no disputing tastes. We do believe in communicating clearly by using words in their usual meanings.

Now get a book or two and start reading.

[Tin Can]

I have studio Horsemen and have made it 4X5 6 ft bellows

a dark tunnel

Bellows Factor!

know it

[Daniel Unkefer]

I think I understand where you are trying to go with this. It reminds me I would like to emulate the famous photo "Hot Lips" by Pete Turner, but with the larger format. The lighting is sooo beautiful in that one. Good Luck with your project. Your Cambo Actus shot be great for "tuning up" the image, then reconfigure with larger format. Interesting concept.

[xkaes]

A. A. Blaker's book Field Photography. This is the best introduction to photography I've encountered.

I could not agree more. I'm always surprised that it is hardly ever mentioned.

[GG12]

Not to put one's foot into where it doesn't belong, but....

I have met Wall-H a few times, helping him as he gets into tech'l cameras. He's quite excited to try 4x5, but is still learning. As a second language, the writing is sometimes awkward. No harm is meant but most of his learning has been all on his own. He is quite a good photographer, with some stunning work.

Many of the next generation are used to learning from the 'net, and forums. LF is its own animal, has its own way of learning (slow, thoughtfully, takes time.... it's just different IMHO), and it takes time for that to sink in. I would hope we'd be supportive of new interests.

Some comments here were frankly impolite, and while I agree with the suggestions (read more), they could have been given in a more positive way.
Hopefully we can move forward peaceably from here on out.

Geoff
(infrequent poster, but big fan of LF)

[darr]

As a member of this forum and past educator in the field of photography, I've observed a concerning trend where some of our more experienced members, may unintentionally come across as dismissive or disrespectful to newcomers. While the depth of knowledge here is truly impressive and a valuable resource, I believe it's crucial that we foster a welcoming and supportive atmosphere for all enthusiasts, regardless of their skill level.

Photography, like any art form, thrives on diversity of thought and experience. Every question posed by a newcomer is an opportunity for us to nurture their passion and perhaps, learn something new ourselves. Remember, we were all beginners once, and the guidance we received played a significant role in our development.

Let's continue to make this forum a supportive community for all photography enthusiasts.

[Jim Andrada]

+1. Couldn't agree more.

[rfesk]

We (including me) are getting older. We gotta make the younger ones feel welcome or there won't be much of a large format community.

Edit: Some of us are technically capable where others of us aren't. I learned long ago where I stand from my brother-in-law.
He could take any simple camera and get better composition than myself. But you almost had to show him where the shutter button was.
So we are all different.