Ebony 4x5 conundrum

[Andrew Ito]

So here's the deal. For years I had an Ebony 23S that I absolutely loved. It was fairly lightweight, super quick to set up and use and worked flawlessly. Over the past few years I had yearned to shoot 4x5s and 6x12 panoramics more and wished that I had instead purchased a 4x5 as I could always shoot smaller formats with roll film backs. So I put the 23S on fleabay and made my money back on it if not more. Well, here's where I started getting into trouble. I found a used 45SU and bought it thinking that it was the "end all" camera. I guess that I was so used to the compact size of the 23S that the 45SU seemed too big and bulky so I sold it and started looking at (and buying) folders. Next on the list was the RW45 which was nice and compact but didn't have the extensive movements of the 23S that I was used to nor the bellows draw that I wanted. So, that went back... Now I'm onto a nice SV45Ti. It's a great camera. But.... Folding it up and getting it zeroed takes so much more time and effort than setting up the non-folders. Also, with the normal bellows it only can use down to 90mm lenses if I want to use any movements. Now I'm starting to think that I should just get a 45S. I prefer the Ebony to Mahogany, and the non-folders to folding cameras in use. I do realize that I'll be limited to shorter focal lengths unless I get the extender back or top hat lensboards.

I realize that I'm pretty lazy when it comes to using a view camera. I guess I've just been spoiled over the years with the ease of use of the 23S. With that camera I didn't have many limitations/issues with lens focal lengths since a 200mm lens is relatively long on 6x9. I have a Nikkor 65SW, Fujinon 90SW, Schneider 135 Sironar N, Nikkor 200M and Nikkor 300M that I'd like to use. All the lenses seem like they'd work fine with the exception of the 300M. Perhaps the 452 extender or a 35mm top hat board would work for using that lens to focus infinity. I was planning on picking up a Fujinon 450C to use with the Ti but realize that it would be impossible to use with the 45S. Perhaps I shouldn't have sold my Fujinon 400T.

Now that I'm done with my confession I ask for your opinions. Should I bite the bullet and "get over it" and use the SV45Ti or should I pick up the 45S. I guess I should've just stopped with the 45SU...

Folding pros:
- compact
- more bellows extension
cons:
- need universal or bag bellow for wider than 90mm
- need additional movements for lenses shorter than 90mm

Non-folding pros:
- use wide lenses without special lensboards or movements
- very easy and quick to set up and use
cons:
- less extension

Your comments, thoughts and suggestions would be much appreciated. Please keep the "shame on you" or "make up your mind" comments to a minimum. :) Thanks!

[Frank Petronio]

A Linhof Master Technika 2000 is very easy to set up and will handle your 65 just fine...

[Michael Gordon]

Hi Andrew: we met at Per's Joshua Tree gathering a few years back. How long have you been using the SV45Ti? I have one as well and can unfold it, mount a lens, and get it neutral in probably 15 seconds. Maybe you're just not practiced enough yet with the camera.

For me the SV45Ti is largely an "end all" camera.

[Randy Redford]

I would check with Ian at Ebony about custom making a 45s with longer bellows and extension. Ebony is now making me a custom SLW810 with extended bellows to fit a 450mm lens. I went through Jim at MPEX and he was able to take care of everything.

[Andrew Ito]

Hi Michael. I remember meeting you at Per's workshop. I believe you were shooting with a Shen Hao at the time. Anyways, I do agree that with practice I'll probably get much quicker at handling the camera. I guess I just need to shoot with it more and see how it goes.

Randy, I think I'll ask Jim at Midwest about a custom camera. I bought 2 Ebonys from him already so I think he'll know what I have in mind. Is the custom work a big upcharge?

[Randy Redford]

My custom was the same price as the "standard" SLW810.

[Robert Skeoch]

Reading your sad story reminds me that we all have a cross to bare.
I see your point though. I think I would give the SV45Ti that you have a good workout and see if it can work for you. They are a pretty nice camera.
-Rob Skeoch

[John Brady]

I guess I should've just stopped with the 45SU...

Hi Andrew, How much time did you spend with the 45su? I love mine and it sounds like it is the answer to what you are looking for. I love the fact that you can leave a lens mounted and keep it ready to shoot in your pack. I keep a 47sa mounted and for the most part focused. It's almost like having a 4x5 point and shoot.

You will already have fairly long bellows draw and the assymetrical movements are always nice to have. I agree ebony wood is the way to go.

Good luck with your quest.

[CXC]

Get a 45S. Get used to cropping.

[Sal Santamaura]

...we all have a cross to bare...I'd prefer that you all keep them covered up. :)

[Roger Richards]

Hi Andrew,

I sold my Ebony 45s as I had moved up to 8x10. The 45s is an extremely fast camera to get into action, and for me there was no other 4x5 that fit how I worked better. However, I would say that if you need to use longer lenses a greater proportion of time then you should stick with the SV45Ti. I think it would take more time to set up your 45s with the extender than just unfolding and leveling the SV45Ti. You could go the other way and buy a tele lens for the 45s, but either way you will have to acquire more stuff. If the 45SU did not hold on to you then I fail to see how the 45s will be any different. The only way I would say go for the 45s is if you shoot in wide angle more often, and absolutely need the extra speedy setup. The SV45Ti looks like a fine camera to me, perhaps you should hold on and work with it a bit more.

[Andrew Ito]

Yes, I should work a bit more with the SV45Ti before making any rash decisions. To be completely honest, I didn't have the 45SU long before I sold it and should've kept it in retrospect. My first thought was that it was not very "packable" and that I wouldn't use it as much if I couldn't carry it around in a smaller bag vs a large backpack. After spending some time looking at the specs it really is only a few cm deeper and a few cm taller.

[Gregory Gomez]

Hi Andrew,

I was a 4x5 and 6x9cm shooter, so I do know what you are going through. I feel your frustration.

Once you have had an Ebony, other field cameras are going to seem like junk, but here is a list of alternative cameras that might get you thinking in a useful direction:

Canham DLC 4x5: $2,150

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=96

Arca-Swiss 4x5 Misura: $3,450

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=20

Wisner 4x5 Flight (Company in reorganization): $1,900

http://www.wisner.com/flight.htm

Zone VI 4x5: $1,500

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/ZN1000.html

Calumet Cadet 4x5: $549

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CC3001.html

But if it were me and I wanted to do both 4x5 and 6x9cm on the fly with maximum flexibility using a compact monorail design, I would go with the Ebony 45S Mahogany stock, or get one custom made that would allow 381mm (15 inches of bellows draw) to accommodate your 300mm lens.

Ebony 45S 4x5: $2,395

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=49

If I could not get a custom 45S, then I would purchase an extension Tube Set

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1146

and a camera back extender

http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1144

Then I would buy a Linhof, Ebony, or Wista recessed lens board for your 65mm lens.

I hope this helps.

[Brian Ellis]

A Linhof Technika will be slightly faster to set up, probably by about 3-5 seconds, because you just open the camera and slide the front standard out to the infinity position. You don't have to bring the front standard to vertical, then raise the lens board up all the way, then slide it back down into position as you do with the Ebony folding Ebony (I've owned two Technikas and two Ebony folders, the Ti and the Te). But you'd have trouble using your 65mm lens with any Technika other than the Master 2000 and that's going to cost about $4500 new (you almost never see them for sale used, which either means they're so expensive no one is buying them or everyone who buys one keeps it).

Interestingly, as between the Ti and the Te I preferred the Ti for its lighter weight. I sold mine and bought the Te in the mistaken belief that it would be more precise and solid with the ebony wood which it wasn't, it was just 2 pounds heavier.

[Ted Harris]

One quiet voice to suggerst that there really are other choices out there besides Ebony and, no, they won't all seem like junk. A lot depends on wht you expect from your field camera. I have spent many more years using metal fields than wooden ones. I tried an Ebony, used it extensively about a year ago. A fine camera, no doubt, I would highly recommend it. But, there is no way an Ebony, or any other wood field for that mnatter, has the same precise feel as any of the metal fields. A lot of it is subjective, but to me the most precise feeling wood field is one of the Zone VI cameras made at Zone Vi's factory in Vermont. The Ebony is a close second.

All that said, as long as you have the movements you need and everything locks down tight then it really doesn't matter in the end. Some cameras work faster and better for some than they do for others. One thing on the Ebony, the one I was using had the universal bellows and would handle a 90mm on a standard board with ease and a 75mm on a standard board with some fiddling to set the camera in 'wide angle' mode.

[Ling Z]

Once you have had an Ebony, other field cameras are going to seem like junk, but here is a list of alternative cameras that might get you thinking in a useful direction:



I cannot agree on this. I used to be an admitted equipment-holic and have played with many field cameras such as Shen-Hao, Ebony SV45Te, Linhof MT2000, Sinar F2, Arca F-Line and Toyo 45AII. I agree Ebony camera might be the best among wooden cameras, but in terms of rigidity, smoothness and durability, I like my Linhof MT2000 better. It's built like a tank, can be set up within 5 seconds, and has enough movements for landscape.

The camera is just a tool, and good pictures come from the one behind the camera.

Ling

[Danny Burk]

Don't be too quick to give up on the SV45Ti...it's *not* difficult to set up quickly. My SV45U2 has the same setup procedure and it can go from bag to attaching the lens in 15-20 seconds. It's *very* easy once you've practiced it a bit. It's a wonderfully designed and versatile camera; having tried a LOT of cameras belonging to my workshop participants, I wouldn't trade mine for anything else.

[Steve Hamley]

Also, metal cameras aren't always more rigid than wood. Smoother maybe.

http://www.skgrimes.com/thisweek/1-13-06/index.htm

Ian Wilson and Hiromi got a chuckle out of a custom brace to firm up a metal camera when I sent them the link.

Steve