Need help with lens and shutter selection for a DIY camera

[Frugivore]

Hi guys I'm rather new to this world and I could use some help. I'm a tinkerer and maker and ever since I saw this video (https://youtu.be/Tf_i17v0Jfs?si=1_8miuB5Nwep7xTr) about a 3D-printed camera I've wanted to try my hand at making one. It's been 4 months now and I've finally found the right base for what I want to build. The Oxygen 35mm pano camera by panomicron (https://www.panomicron.com/oxygen-1). But there is one problem with this, the lenses. This camera uses large format lenses and shutters (or specific medium format lenses modified with a large format shutter) which are... well there are a lot of options. I could use some help figuring out what my best options are, what is the best bang for the buck in my price range, and just generally decoding this world.

Key info
-This is the page (https://www.panomicron.com/lenses) on the lenses that work with oxygen. As I alluded to earlier there are two main options 1 use a large format lens (most easily with copal 0 and 1 sized shutters) and option 2 convert a Bronica ETR lens to a mechanical shutter of the same sizes. The guide does the latter as it was made while you could still buy a standalone copal shutter.

-I'm trying to keep the project under 400usd which leaves roughly 170 dollars for the lens. This is a general number and can be anywhere in that range.

-I mostly want to shoot landscapes with this camera.

-I'm willing and able to make modifications to the current design to allow for different configurations.


I've found a few options within my price range that look solid. All are large format lenses that have copal 0 or 1 shutters so far. But I want to explore the other side of this, is there a good place to find a copal shutter these days? The Bronica ETR lenses look reasonably priced and are much faster than the large-format lenses. With a reasonably priced shutter that feels like the best option to me but I just can't find any shutters.

My questions
-What are the different brands of shutters and how do they compare? (I've heard of Compur and a couple of others but Copal seems to be the best)

-Where can you find shutters these days? Does anyone make a modern equivalent?

-Good focal lengths for a 65x24 frame especially for landscapes?

-Generally any tips for this stuff, buying experience, working with vintage optics, etc?

-Can you guys help me narrow down my search and help guide me to the best option?



Thanks for any help! I've done a lot of research but I'm still in over my head here.

[Vaughan]

I'm trying to keep the project under 400usd which leaves roughly 170 dollars for the lens.... Generally any tips for this stuff, buying experience, working with vintage optics, etc?

Unless you have unlimited budget and time, buy something that is already finished and works, with a guarantee and solid return policy.

Panorama stuff is NOT cheap, and making it is not easy. I watched the video: the first camera leaked light, and the second replacement camera still had light leaks.

You asked about a 65x24 frame: I'm not sure what you mean. The camera in the vid is 6x17cm which is a common pano format for 120 film, and it is equivalent to 5x7 sheet film. Many lenses for 4x5 won't cover 6x17 and no medium format lenses will come close to covering. The Bronica ETR is 6x4.5cm format and will only make a spot in the middle of the 6x17 film.

EDIT: I just read about the Oxygen camera: it appears to use 35mm film and makes 24mm x 65mm images. If this is the case then ETR lenses will probably work, but converting the lenses to mechanical shutters is going to be difficult and expensive.

[BrianShaw]

Have you considered using a pinhole “lens”?

[Dan Fromm]

Fruitbat, the normal focal length for 24x65 is 69 mm. Call it 70 mm. The normal focal length for nominal 6x6 (actually 56 x 56) is 80 mm. Any lens in leaf shutter for a 6x6 camera will do for you. Focal length is up to you. The most commonly used focal lengths for landscape (all formats) are normal +/- a little. Wide angle lenses are, in general, a bad bet for shooting broad vistas. Shots taken with them will be all foreground. Been there, done that, don't recommend it for all situations. Lenses much longer than normal see, well, narrower than normal lenses. They have their uses in shooting landscapes, but aren't good in many situations. Use shutters aren't cheap and will need overhaul, also not cheap.

Suggestions: drop your DIY and ETR obsessions, learn about 6x6 and 6x7 (too expensive) cameras that will shoot 35 mm film as well as 120/220. Learn about lenses in shutter for 6x6 cameras.

[Mark J]

The price target for the lens is quite restrictive, but having had a quick scan of EBay there might be some older lenses with shutter out there.
Wide angle could be OK given that this is panoramic format which gets rid of the 'useless' foreground' problem mostly. maybe 65-75mm efl, but not sure what would be cheap in this range.
I can't help thinking that if you just want to take pictures, a folding vintage camera like an Ensign, with 6x9cm film , and a rangefinder , would be a whole lot less faff.

[Frugivore]

Thanks for the help guys. This has been a big help to me with finding focal length and the like. I'm very aware of the challenges (light leak etc) with this project and I'm up for the challenge. I see your concerns but this project interests me because of the handmade nature and not the pano images so I'm going to keep going with it.

[Mark J]

OK fair enough.
Does the lens need its own focus mechanism ?
Otherwise here's something interesting in the right price range -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/386069636203

[Frugivore]

Does the lens need its own focus mechanism ?
The design uses this for focus so I think we are good with out one. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M65-to-M65-25mm-55mm-Focusing-Adjustable-Adapter-Macro-Extension-Tube-25-55mm/223527275228?hash=item340b438adc:g:L~gAAOSwAANY6yuY

[Dan Fromm]

The design uses this for focus so I think we are good with out one. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M65-to-M65-25mm-55mm-Focusing-Adjustable-Adapter-Macro-Extension-Tube-25-55mm/223527275228?hash=item340b438adc:g:L~gAAOSwAANY6yuY

Interesting. Since the camera doesn't have a ground glass back focusing through the lens will be, um, difficult. How do you intend to calibrate the helical?

[Vaughan]

-I mostly want to shoot landscapes with this camera.

In that case, set the camera up for f11 or f16 and fix focus to the hyperflocal distance so it's a point-and-shoot.

IMHO if you want a DIY camera project that won't be a fool's errand money pit, buy a cheap, scruffy metal Toyo Field 45A or Wista 45N or 45D, clean it up and put new bellows on it, and play around with a 90mm lens and some 4x5 black and white film for a while. This is sitting with the cool kids at the back of the bus stuff. You can crop a 4x5 sheet to 6x12cm if you want panorama, just draw some lines on the ground glass. Your choice. After you're done, you can easily sell it and probably get your money back.

IMHO your budget and expectations of the difficulty involved are both way too low.

[Mark J]

If you can find a small piece of glass, like a microscope slide, then you can grind a matt surface onto one side and press it up against the film guide rails while the back is open, and check focus on that. I did this once in the past ( I forget the camera/project ) . If you can do this for an infinity object, then a couple of closer distances then you'd have a useable scale on the helical.

[ic-racer]

Zone focusing large format is challenging because, due to the size of the negative, the magnification for the same subject distance would be greater than a smaller format negative. As one increases magnification, the ability to focus becomes ever more important.

I still think a used monorail would be the best way to start large format.

[Dan Fromm]

Zone focusing large format is challenging because, due to the size of the negative, the magnification for the same subject distance would be greater than a smaller format negative. As one increases magnification, the ability to focus becomes ever more important.

I still think a used monorail would be the best way to start large format.

Good thoughts that I agree with, but the OP wants most to print a camera and secondly to shoot 24x65 on 35 mm film. IMO, the cost effective way to get flexibility and full control would be to use a polyvalent 2x3 camera such as a Century Graphic with a 2x3 roll holder, 120 film and crop. However, short lenses that cover 2x3 are pricey and will put the project outside the OP's budget.

[ic-racer]

Oh, it’s a 35mm project. I did look at the link in the op, but didn’t see any specs. Maybe there are menus that don’t show on my cell phone browser.

[Greg Y]

In that case, set the camera up for f11 or f16 and fix focus to the hyperflocal distance so it's a point-and-shoot.

IMHO if you want a DIY camera project that won't be a fool's errand money pit, buy a cheap, scruffy metal Toyo Field 45A or Wista 45N or 45D, clean it up and put new bellows on it, and play around with a 90mm lens and some 4x5 black and white film for a while. This is sitting with the cool kids at the back of the bus stuff. You can crop a 4x5 sheet to 6x12cm if you want panorama, just draw some lines on the ground glass. Your choice. After you're done, you can easily sell it and probably get your money back.

IMHO your budget and expectations of the difficulty involved are both way too low.

Well-said Vaughn!