Voigtlander lenses for 4x5 Format?

[Csholl]

Hi,

I have a question regarding Large Format and Voigtlander lenses. Can you use a Voigtlander screw-in mount in a 4x5 lens board? I'm assuming I would need a retainer ring. Not sure though, since a lot of the Voigtlanders are for Leica cameras. Also, what Voiglanders are there for 4x5 format as far as wide angle lenses go. I looked up Voigtlanders on ebay and get a lot of Leica one's (28mm). Does anyone have experience with a 65mm or 75mm lens for large format? I just want to know for future reference if possible. thx.

[Oren Grad]

The lenses for 35mm format that are labeled Voigtlander that you see for sale on eBay and elsewhere are made by Cosina, which licensed use of the Voigtlander brand. Cosina does not make large format lenses. The Voigtlander company that made large format lenses is long out of business, and produced its last large format lenses in 1972. See Arne Croell's article for more information:

https://www.arnecroell.com/voigtlaender.pdf

[paulbarden]

A Voigtlander lens made for 35mm won’t provide enough coverage for 4x5.

[Corran]

Not well known, and I've never seen an image from one, but there are these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266517282642

I've always wanted to try one of these, but lost my opportunity to buy one for $600 some years ago.

[Dan Fromm]

http://www.arnecroell.com/ voigtlaender.pdf

[Mark J]

Having analysed both the Angulon and Ultragon designs recently ( on the computer ) I do think that there's just a rarity premium on the Ultragons, it doesn't seem to offer anything outstanding in performance, though it is a little different in its balance. There may be hands-on traits that the vintage fans like, though.

[Csholl]

Yeah, I saw those too, but there way too expensive for an old lens. I'll probably opt for a Rodenstock or Schneider when the time comes.

[David Lindquist]

Having analysed both the Angulon and Ultragon designs recently ( on the computer ) I do think that there's just a rarity premium on the Ultragons, it doesn't seem to offer anything outstanding in performance, though it is a little different in its balance. There may be hands-on traits that the vintage fans like, though.

Very interesting. The two designs are quite different. (Just looked at Cröll's paper cited above by Dan and Oren.)

David

[Mark J]

Yes, looking back at my archives, I think because the Angulon goes a bit wider ( its design is better for that ), I had compared the 90mm Angulon against the 115mm Ultragon.
It's gets messy with the Angulon design, because the one you can find is the 1932 patent, which is fully symmetrical and not that good. I believe there is a second Angulon design that was designed some time later and sold in the 50's/60's that is slightly asymmetrical in thicknesses, as seen from the cross-sections in the brochures, and better.
I did experiment with the 1932 design and it improved, but I can't pin down my version of that, quickly.

Anyway here is the Ultragon ( 2nd patent example is the better one ) at f/5.5 and f/22.
I analysed it out to 5x7" ( just to see how it held up - really it's a 4x5" lens with movement).
Like a few lenses of the earlier eras, it has rather too much on-axis performance at full aperture, which compromises the stopped-down astigmatism levels in the field.
The Angulon is of quite similar performance when stopped down, but a bit different at full aperture. Sometimes it can be basic things like the length of the optic in relationship to its focal length ( these are both very short ) which limits the performance when stopped-down.

A sharper modern alternative at 1/5th the price would be the early-70's Fujinon-W 125mm f/5.6 !

244347244348

[David Lindquist]

Thank you very much!

David

[Greg]

In the late 1970s I owned and used a 115mm f5.5 Voigtlander Ultragon. My sample was in mint condition but the image it produced was only mediocre. Why it became a "cult" lens is beyond me.

[Mark J]

Like a few lenses of the earlier eras, it has rather too much on-axis performance at full aperture, which compromises the stopped-down astigmatism levels in the field.

I can't be too hard on Tronnier though - to design a lens like this without a computer, is beyond what most of us could do these days !

[Mark J]

Greg - I have been picking up that the 'old' Voigtlaender was pretty strong on marketing.
The Ultragon was never a 90° lens - only 80° when stopped-down.
The whole 'Apo Lanthar' thing has lead to decades of misconception. Their lenses were only 'semi-apo' at best, given the glasses available and the simple constructions. Plus the lanthanum glasses were never part of the 'Apo' correction, they are just high-index crowns.

[waterlenz]

One can use lenses made for 35mm format as macro lenses on larger formats since the covering power increases with bellows draw. One should, however, reverse mount them for best results. This means having on hand a lens board with a male filter thread.

I have such a board with a Nikon BR-2 ring (Nikon reversing ring) affixed which is for 52mm filter sized lenses. The only lens I have set up is a 1960s vintage 55mm f/3.5 Micro-Nikkor lens. With about a foot or so of bellows one easily gets >1:1 with comfortable working distance. I was able to reach over to the subject on a table while sitting in a chair next to my on-the-floor-tripod-mounted Sinar 4x5 Norma equipped with a Sinar-Copal shutter that was placed up against the table.

[David Lindquist]

A circa 1955 photographic supply house catalog I have lists the 115 Ultragon, claimed to cover 5 x 7. Said to be in a Compound shutter. Price was $135.00. The 120 mm Angulon was $89.95, the 90 mm Angulon was $69.95 (both in the Synchro-Compur shutter).

David

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50823673491_d191b71b3e_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2kr7BsB)Abandoned Orchard Apple Tree HRU Maki 210 Heliar (https://flic.kr/p/2kr7BsB) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

In my neighborhood there are remnants of the apple orchard that stretched for a good distance many decades ago. At the back of my property is one of the original trees, now gone wild. Plaubel Makiflex Standard, 210mm Makiflex Auto Iris Heliar, Fuji XRAY HRU 4x5" cut from 8x10. Grafmatic Film Back, Sinar 103mm Glass Disc Yellow Green. 1/15 at F5.6 Legacy Mic-X 18 minutes at 60C. Aristo #2 8x10 Omega DII Omegalite Diffusion Head Multigrade dev

I have a 150mm and a 210mm Voigtlander Heliar, both in barrel mount. I use them with 9x12 and 4x5 sheet film, negative image 9x9cm. Back in the day I don't remember Heliars being expensive.