How to Mount View Camera Lenses to Lensboards

[Alan Townsend]

I recently ordered a lens mounting flange from a vendor and had to return it due to being the wrong size for my lens, so am posting this to help others avoid the expensive ship it three times syndrome. Comments very welcome.

1. Find a vendor that supplies lens mounting flanges for view camera lenses.

2. CALL THE VENDOR on the phone to discuss the proper flange for your lens.

3. Do not use tables, websites or advice from anyone on a forum.

4. Shutters that are the same but have different lenses mounted to them do not always share the same thread sizes and may require different flanges due to various thread adapters that may be present.

5. Example is my 9 1/2 inch Goerz Gold Dot Dagor on Ilex Acme #3 shutter that uses a "Goerz 2 1/8-25 tpi flange" and neither standard flanges listed in tables for "Ilex Acme #3" or "Ilex Acme #3 - Kodak Type", whatever that means. Is that for a Kodak lens?

Alan Townsend

[xkaes]

3. Do not use tables, websites or advice from anyone on a forum.

Alan Townsend

It can be a frustrating experience, unfortunately.

But here's one exception to your advise -- from my website. So this is advise from a member of this forum AND a website.

If you have a Fujinon lens, here's the Fuji Owner's Manual in PDF format showing how to attach Fujinon lenses to lens boards. The info is applicable to many other lenses as well.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/lensmanual.pdf

[David Lindquist]

I recently ordered a lens mounting flange from a vendor and had to return it due to being the wrong size for my lens, so am posting this to help others avoid the expensive ship it three times syndrome. Comments very welcome.

1. Find a vendor that supplies lens mounting flanges for view camera lenses.

2. CALL THE VENDOR on the phone to discuss the proper flange for your lens.

3. Do not use tables, websites or advice from anyone on a forum.

4. Shutters that are the same but have different lenses mounted to them do not always share the same thread sizes and may require different flanges due to various thread adapters that may be present.

5. Example is my 9 1/2 inch Goerz Gold Dot Dagor on Ilex Acme #3 shutter that uses a "Goerz 2 1/8-25 tpi flange" and neither standard flanges listed in tables for "Ilex Acme #3" or "Ilex Acme #3 - Kodak Type", whatever that means. Is that for a Kodak lens?

Alan Townsend

Alan, I really owe you an apology. Reviewing this thread: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?174276-9-1-2-in-F-6-6-Goertz-Dagor-Acme-3-shutter-thread-diameter-and-adapters it looks like i'm the one who is responsible for your ordering the wrong flange. I'm very sorry for the cost and inconvenience that resulted.

From experience I know that Goerz modified the rear of the No. 1 Compur in order to fit some of their lenses resulting in needing a larger than standard mounting flange. It never occurred to me that they might also do this with the somewhat larger No. 3 Acme in order to fit some lenses.

To be sure I understand you, you ultimately talked to someone at SK Grimes and found out that in fact your shutter takes a 2 1/8" - 25 TPI flange, is that correct?

David

[Lachlan 717]

3. Do not use …. advice from anyone on a forum.

Alan Townsend

Well, this sets up an interesting paradox…

[BrianShaw]

Frustration and expensive seem to be synonymous with large format photography at times. :)

[rdenney]

A 6” caliper and a set of thread gauges is really handy. Both can be had for maybe $25.

Rick “necessary tooling for those who play with lots of old lenses” Denney

[Tin Can]

I make many WOOD lensboards, some OE metal are enlarged

if I need a new lens board

i buy a new round hole saw to size

I have a table top drill press

i set up very carefully with scrap under saw

and CLAMP TIGHTLY with big cast iron C clamps

[David Lindquist]

Alan.... are you sure that you have an Ilex/Acme #3, and not a #4 shutter? Grimes states that they reshutter your lens into a Copal 1 or Ilex 4. Is that erroneous? Other sources (Goerz) seem to agree that it is indeed a #3. Makes one wonder, though.

What is your "source of truth" on that and the flange dimensions? Something's not adding up...

In post #7 here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?174276-9-1-2-in-F-6-6-Goertz-Dagor-Acme-3-shutter-thread-diameter-and-adapters we can clearly see that it is a No. 3 Ilex Acme.

I heartily second Rick's recommendation that every large format photographer get 6" caliper and both a set of metric and inch thread gages. Cheap digital read-out calipers will switch between inch and metric and should be "good enough".

David "feels compelled to buy Starrett but you needn't" Lindquist

[BrianShaw]

In post #7 here: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?174276-9-1-2-in-F-6-6-Goertz-Dagor-Acme-3-shutter-thread-diameter-and-adapters we can clearly see that it is a No. 3 Ilex Acme.

Thank you; that clarifies. Hunting past threads for pertinent information is something I don't generally do. :) Seems like Grimes might have an error on their "reshutter" page.

[xkaes]

Frustration and expensive seem to be synonymous with large format photography at times. :)

Are you saying we are all masochists? That pains me to the core!

Thank you so much.

[Alan Townsend]

Alan, I really owe you an apology. Reviewing this thread: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?174276-9-1-2-in-F-6-6-Goertz-Dagor-Acme-3-shutter-thread-diameter-and-adapters it looks like i'm the one who is responsible for your ordering the wrong flange. I'm very sorry for the cost and inconvenience that resulted.

From experience I know that Goerz modified the rear of the No. 1 Compur in order to fit some of their lenses resulting in needing a larger than standard mounting flange. It never occurred to me that they might also do this with the somewhat larger No. 3 Acme in order to fit some lenses.

To be sure I understand you, you ultimately talked to someone at SK Grimes and found out that in fact your shutter takes a 2 1/8" - 25 TPI flange, is that correct?

David

David, yes correct. No problem, my own fault for not calling, which is my lesson learned to share. I did not have a working caliper when I originally asked for correct size, or a way to measure the threads. After I got the wrong flange, I measured the threads to be 2.11 diameter (have a working caliper now), and very close to a #10-24 machine screw pitch. I called the nameless vendor the next day, and they recommended the correct size. I do not have it yet, but pretty confident it will work. It will be a few days before they receive my returned wrong flange and send me the right one. Thanks for your help. I do not blame you for anything.

[David Lindquist]

David, yes correct. No problem, my own fault for not calling, which is my lesson learned to share. I did not have a working caliper when I originally asked for correct size, or a way to measure the threads. After I got the wrong flange, I measured the threads to be 2.11 diameter (have a working caliper now), and very close to a #10-24 machine screw pitch. I called the nameless vendor the next day, and they recommended the correct size. I do not have it yet, but pretty confident it will work. It will be a few days before they receive my returned wrong flange and send me the right one. Thanks for your help. I do not blame you for anything.

And thank you for making me aware that Goerz modified other shutters in addition to the No. 1 Compur (and Copal) when mounting their lenses. I'm adding a note to this effect to the "All things Goerz" folder on my computer.

And being old school, a print-out of the note will go into the physical folder holding my collection of C.P. Goerz American Optical Co./Goerz OpticalCo., Inc. ephemera.:)

David

[Vaughan]

It can be a frustrating experience, unfortunately.

But here's one exception to your advise -- from my website. So this is advise from a member of this forum AND a website.

If you have a Fujinon lens, here's the Fuji Owner's Manual in PDF format showing how to attach Fujinon lenses to lens boards. The info is applicable to many other lenses as well.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/lensmanual.pdf

Regarding Fujinon lenses: the Seiko 1 shutter used for older single-coated lenses needs a larger hole than a Copal 1 shutter.

[Dan Fromm]

OP, this discussion's title is seriously misleading. Please change it. Something like "Rant about buying the wrong flange" would be more appropriate.

[Alan Townsend]

I make many WOOD lensboards, some OE metal are enlarged

if I need a new lens board

i buy a new round hole saw to size

I have a table top drill press

i set up very carefully with scrap under saw

and CLAMP TIGHTLY with big cast iron C clamps

I made my lens boards from two laminated pieces of 1/8 in. mdf, the outer 4x4 in., the inner 3.5x3.5 to fit Calumet and my DIY 4x5. I use spade bits on drill press for smaller lenses, but a coping saw to rough out for the Dagor, a piece of 1.5 in. diameter PVC with sandpaper wrapped around to enlarge and finish to size. I think a hole saw would be too brutal for such small lens boards with somewhat brittle material. I really hate using a coping saw due to arthritis.

Thanks for input,

Alan Townsend

[xkaes]

Regarding Fujinon lenses: the Seiko 1 shutter used for older single-coated lenses needs a larger hole than a Copal 1 shutter.

What you're saying about the Seiko #1 shutter may well be true, but as far as I know, Fujinon never supplied any of their lenses with any Seiko shutter other than the #0. Do you know differently?

BTW, the Seiko #0 and Copal #0 have the same rear attaching thread of 32.5mm.

[Alan Townsend]

I received a flange today, and it fits my lens, so I am happy. More confusing however, is that on the invoice it says it is a "flange - Goerz 2 1/2 in. 1.0 pitch". It has 3 mounting holes instead of the normal 4. It is a metric 1.0 pitch (25 tpi) but not close to 2 1/2-inch diameter.

I will repeat one more time, to mount a lens, call the dealer for the proper flange or retainer. There is not a one to one for mounting flanges based on the shutter used, as is implied on most websites.

Thanks for the comments,

Alan Townsend

[David Lindquist]

I received a flange today, and it fits my lens, so I am happy. More confusing however, is that on the invoice it says it is a "flange - Goerz 2 1/2 in. 1.0 pitch". It has 3 mounting holes instead of the normal 4. It is a metric 1.0 pitch (25 tpi) but not close to 2 1/2-inch diameter.

I will repeat one more time, to mount a lens, call the dealer for the proper flange or retainer. There is not a one to one for mounting flanges based on the shutter used, as is implied on most websites.

Thanks for the comments,

Alan Townsend

Thank you very much for letting us know the final outcome.

Wonder if someone mis-spoke on the invoice.

David

[Vaughan]

What you're saying about the Seiko #1 shutter may well be true, but as far as I know, Fujinon never supplied any of their lenses with any Seiko shutter other than the #0. Do you know differently?

Yes I know differently. The 180mm and 210mm are mine, the 250mm is from an eBay listing.

243386

243387

[BrianShaw]

A good result… congratulations!

So we know 2 facts: both Goerz and Kodak modified “standard” shutters to proprietary dimensions. Is this unique to Rochester USA or did any other lens manufacturers do similar?

[reddesert]

Yes I know differently. The 180mm and 210mm are mine, the 250mm is from an eBay listing.

243386

243387

I also have a Fujinon 210mm in the Seiko #1 shutter that is like a Copal #1 shutter but slightly larger. I've posted about it here before to assist people. It mounts in a 48mm hole versus the 42mm hole for a Copal 1. The mount thread is M46-0.75 (Copal 1 is M39-0.75). The M46-0.75 thread is the same as 46mm filter thread, so if you lose the retaining ring, you can use something like a 49->46 step down filter ring that has a 46mm female thread.

[Alan Townsend]

I recently ordered a lens mounting flange from a vendor and had to return it due to being the wrong size for my lens, so am posting this to help others avoid the expensive ship it three times syndrome. Comments very welcome.

1. Find a vendor that supplies lens mounting flanges for view camera lenses.

2. CALL THE VENDOR on the phone to discuss the proper flange for your lens.

3. Do not use tables, websites or advice from anyone on a forum.

4. Shutters that are the same but have different lenses mounted to them do not always share the same thread sizes and may require different flanges due to various thread adapters that may be present.

5. Example is my 9 1/2 inch Goerz Gold Dot Dagor on Ilex Acme #3 shutter that uses a "Goerz 2 1/8-25 tpi flange" and neither standard flanges listed in tables for "Ilex Acme #3" or "Ilex Acme #3 - Kodak Type", whatever that means. Is that for a Kodak lens?

Alan Townsend

I will try to conclude this thread with a few photos of the lens board hole drilling and mounting. I did wind up ordering a circle cutter on Amazon for $7.50 for cutting holes in wood between 1.4 and 4.8 inches in diameter.

243855

Tin Can suggested a hole saw, but saw this and figured it more gentle on the materials. I was able to cut 3, 56mm holes quickly after setting the blades and testing.

243856

The lens board are 2 pieces of 1/8 in. mdf glued together.

243857

I mounted the new flange using 3 #2 stainless steel flat head screws with nuts and brass washers.

243858

The washers were the hardest parts to get. I used brass #4 washers I got on Amazon doubled due to the thinness. The finished board with lens looks good.

243859

243860

So, to mount a lens on a view camera, I suggest using a wooden lens board, with a hole cut by an adjustable cutter, using a flange from a vendor that you have called to ensure the correct part is shipped the first time. MDF is a good material for this, since it's hard, doesn' absorb moisture and warp, and is rigid enough to hold the lens flange properly. Wooden boards require flanges for the most part, unless the lens has a very wide shoulder so that a lens collar will work. My Optar 90 and 135 lenses are like this. I also just made a new flat lens board for my 90mm Optar, to replace the 2 inch deep recessed lens board that I made for my Calumet 25 years ago. That board almost always showed the cable release in the picture, so was avoided mostly.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice on this.

Alan Townsend

[domaz]

Nice work, don't forget to do the flashlight test with your new lensboard and the lens attached with the shutter closed. You might be surprised how easy it is to have a light leak if sometimes not totally "tight". Also paint the back of your boards black.