Bunch of old Ilford paper from auction - Help!

[Elliot]

Back in the darkroom after 15 years and got a bit carried away at an auction, scoring a bunch of old Ilford paper which I'm hoping at least some is usable without bending over backwards with advanced techniques.

In particular, I'm struggling to find any info on what "SP 875P" is. Believe the batch code to be "93E570X00" but could be wrong.

Just a general question really on what the heck I've got myself into by buying these old boxes of paper. Feel free to start with the most obvious stuff!

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Elliot

[Michael R]

That stuff is all ancient with the possible exception of MGIV which is still going to be quite old. You’ll need to try each type to see if any of it is viable for regular printing. Some will disagree with me, of course, but in particular if you’re coming back to darkroom work after a long break, are out of practice and want to keep things relatively simple I’d recommend using fresh materials.

[ic-racer]

Develop a sheet of each with no exposure and see what you get. Some may be all gray or even black.

[Tin Can]

Experiment

[Oren Grad]

That stuff is all ancient with the possible exception of MGIV which is still going to be quite old.

Yes, MGIV RC Deluxe was introduced in 1994, and given the company it's keeping here, this pack is likely an early sample. The whole batch is probably ~30 years old.

[Molli]

Hi Elliot, with the exception of your Ilford SP875P, I have boxes of all of these papers and have been able to use all of them for the most part. Loss of contrast has been more of an issue than age fogging. The simplest test for the latter is to simply develop, stop and fix a small piece and ONLY fix a second piece. Compare the pair. If you do have fogging, an addition of a few millilitres of 1% Benzotriazole will often clear it up. Alternatively, you can over expose the print and then give it a dunk in Farmer's Reducer to clear the highlights and also give the impression of higher contrast.
With regard to "what is it?" the Agfa-Gevaert and Ilfospeed papers are all graded papers, the grade being the first number with the Ilford papers. After the dot is the paper surface 1=Glossy 24=Semi-Matte 26 = Velvet Stipple 35=Silk 44= Pearl. The letters at the end represent the paper's weight P=Single Weight M=Medium Weight K=Double Weight. Your Multigrade paper uses the same designations, but you get to change the grades through the use of filters.
The Agfa-Gevaert BW310 is Grade 1 is a Glossy Medium Weight Resin Coated paper... I think. I had all of their codes more or less memorised but I'm unsure, in this moment, which letters and numbers represent what.

I possibly have datasheets for most of the papers you have there if your boxes have been opened already and the paperwork has been discarded. At this point in time, they're more in the way of historical interest and a starting point. Let me know if you'd like me to dig them up and scan them for you.

Oh, clearly I have low standards and no aspirations to be a fine art printer, but please don't be too quick to turf old paper. I just enjoy printing and old paper is an affordable way for me to spend time in the darkroom. I hope you get some use and enjoyment out of your paper, too.

Now to go for a dig for some of that SP875P paper - that's a new one to me! [emoji16]

[LabRat]

Old RC & fiber MG papers tend to age funny, as the contrast layer tends to degrade first, leaving the flatter contrast layer dominant, so after 10 or 15 years, it loses the ability to produce good contrast + Dmax...

When fibre paper gets really old, the stresses in the paper base make the baryta base brittle underneath the emulsion, and when wetted and handled, pressure marks can occur when bending, where tongs grab print, even finger marks etc... Best to make prints with ample borders than can be cut off later, and be very careful of bending and pressure to central image area when wet at all times...

Test, test, test...

Steve K

[Elliot]

Thanks all. I'll chop some of the paper up, write on each piece what it is, and get testing.

Initially thought I was on to a bit of a money saver with this paper, but had no idea how old it all was! We live and learn.

Hopefully some of it is usable enough to practice on and perhaps even the age of the paper could add a little look and feel to the end result, or I could be talking total rubbish.

First hurdle is that the darkroom I use only has a red safelight, but all of these papers recommend a light brown safelight.

Cheers

Elliot

[Molli]

Thanks all. I'll chop some of the paper up, write on each piece what it is, and get testing.

Initially thought I was on to a bit of a money saver with this paper, but had no idea how old it all was! We live and learn.

Hopefully some of it is usable enough to practice on and perhaps even the age of the paper could add a little look and feel to the end result, or I could be talking total rubbish.

First hurdle is that the darkroom I use only has a red safelight, but all of these papers recommend a light brown safelight.

Cheers

ElliotIf it's a safelight of a deeper red variety, they're generally good with all black and white papers, regardless of vintage (happy to be corrected by my betters here!). I'm just using an old Kodak Brownie Safelight over a 15W globe in the ceiling - the same as this: https://victoriancollections.net.au/items/595c4d9bd0cdd10fb0e8dc7c
It's decidedly orange.
I'd say it's about a metre and a half from the enlarger and developing trays.
The below is a contact print from a circa 1940s Whole Plate glass negative. As I don't know the people in the photo, please forgive the smiley faces obscuring their identity and also if you can see "scrape marks" running down the prints. It's a gift from my scanner [emoji17] and, as print scans are merely a cataloguing venture for me, buying a new scanner isn't a priority for me.
At any rate, I'm showing you this as it's a straight print on Ilford Ilfospeed 2.1M Glossy Medium Weight Paper, just as you have in your collection there. Still no guarantees for you, but just a "please don't be discouraged until you've tried it" request. [emoji5]
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231016/e3897947e516ca8a9f8b5422b70821df.jpg

[Chuck Pere]

I'd say it was best to see what fresh new paper was capable of doing first. Then you can try out the old stuff and see how it compares. Else you will never know what is possible. You may like the look of the old stuff better and that's Ok if it fits how you want the prints to look.

[Elliot]

Heading to the darkroom tonight so will report back.

Here's an excerpt from a very helpful email from Ilford received today:

"The paper you have dates back to Feb 2004! So definitely old now. It was our variable contrast MG resin coated paper - but the formulation version pre our current sold MGRC Deluxe paper. ie MGRC 1V.
That specific batch was a trial specifically manufactured for a photographic show (Focus in Birmingham). The surface of your paper is satin (25M). "

[Elliot]

I've been using a pack of brand spanking new paper from Ilford as part of my return to the darkroom so will indeed have something to compare to - thanks all for the advice. Having bought all this paper I will of course experiment with it, but also appreciate that I want to minimise the number of parts of the process that can go wonky, otherwise I'll just end up in tears and pulling my hair out!

[domaz]

Learn to carbon transfer print, fix all this paper out and transfer onto that. I doubt it's very usable for B&W paper anymore but as long as it's not so fogged to be off-color it's fine for Carbon Transfer.

[Elliot]

Had a bit of a chilling experience in the darkroom, some might call a ghost story...

In total darkness, I'm opening each box in turn, cutting two test strips, developing one and only fixing the other, to see which of these ~30 year old papers have some life left in them.

This is quite an ordeal in total darkness and I almost knock my trays over.

I turn on the red light to see that the first set of paper is completely fogged. Black. Well, more like a dark grey.

I open the second box of paper, cut two strips, and again in total darkness develop one and fix the other.

This paper shows promise. There is paper white visible, but also a bunch of mottled grey.

I try another strip from the same piece.

Turning on the red light I see a young girls face staring up from the rinsing tray.

I'm thinking, did some eccentric expose this paper and put it back in the box only to be discovered decades later? Is there a message hidden on the other paper? Who is this young person?

In haste, under red light, I pull out the remaining sheets.

To my disappointment, out come a half dozen copies of the same image. I've paid good money at auction for a box of photographs, 6 identical photographs!

At least I can sleep soundly knowing I'm probably not going to be haunted here on out.

I guess this is what you get for buying open packets of old paper off the internet!

243165

[LabRat]

It's cursed... Have a stiff drink and call the priest at 2 am... ;)

Steve K

[Tin Can]

I never buy open box

I have been given very good 8X10 AZO

twice

I also bought more sealed AZO

[Tin Can]

addendum

also given a lot of new and old film

and BIG Flashbulbs

I KNOW my continuous and varied POSTS attract kind PEOPLE

Many more have quit LFPF

as the PURITY GANG here are just mean wannabes

[Ulophot]

Elliot, welcome back to the land of the darkroom, even if your first results were a bit unsettling. I find the image's appearance rather remarkable -- though I did just last week leave one sheet of six unprocessed and only realized it after I had toned the others and cleaned up the darkroom. It got processed next session.

I hope you'll continue to share your results and questions that may arise as you continue your new adventure. Best wishes!

[Elliot]

Thanks very much Philip. I originally learned these techniques in secondary school here in the UK, and my attitude at the time was at best an overconfident know-it-all.

I think I'm at the point now where I've remembered and revisited much of what I had originally learned, but it was daunting getting back into it. Suddenly, feeling all confident again, I had a go at split grade printing for the first time, and realise I need to go over the basics again after getting some confusing results.

I'd be very pleased to share my results and get some pointers. Ultimately it's of course encouraging me to take more care when producing the negative so I have an easier time in the darkroom.

[jnantz]

getting used paper can be an adventure. I'm currently using paper that is so slow I can develop it in an open tray in daylight.
paper that is a little fogged/cured/aged makes perfect paper negatives seeing they can be high contrast, sun prints ( using outdoor sun instead of a darkroom )
can be a blast too. if you go sun printing/ POP/lumen printing/ in camera and solar graphing, after you get your impression on the paper
if you soak your paper in sodium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate you can carefully develop and fix them ..
good luck !

heather palecek just released another book about using paper the first one was great and the new release looks fantastic ..
you might also look into the work of Chris McCaw ..

[Andrew O'Neill]

I would treat the paper as you normally would. Run a test strip. If fogged, add a wee bit of 1% Benzo to the developer. Experiment. You'll soon realise if the paper is no good... and if it is, someone who is into Carbon Transfer (like me!) could use it! ;)

[Tin Can]

I learned my lesson when I spilled 100 sheet box of color 8X10 paper

during a rare cleanup

It all self developed in very interesting patterns!

[Fred L]

Bought some 11x14 Kodak Ektamatic SC paper a few years ago. Was a nice fiber paper made for the stabilization process but also looked really nice developed wet. Was single weight which was why I bought it, but alas it had too much base fog to be of any use. Gave a friend who liths, some sheets to see if it works for them but they had already tried this paper previously and it didn't work for them. It was a gamble that didn't pan out. Trying to decide what to with it.

Still sitting on some blue box Oriental, graded Brilliant (my two fav papers) and graded Kentmere (still salty that Ilford killed it, grrr).

[PRJ]

Lumen prints are the easiest thing to make with old paper. You just need a contact printer, a negative and some fixer. Leave it out in the sun all day and Bob's your uncle!

I never buy old paper anymore. No point.