Nikor 4x5 Tank developing issue

[Ronan]

Hello,
I just recently bought a nikkor 4x5 steel tank and it has damaged some very important negatives. I loaded the negs with the emulsion side facing in as you would expect but the tank has left marks on the centre of all the negs. Have i done something incorrectly?

Thanks

Ronan

[Renato Tonelli]

What kind of marks? Scratches? If the negatives are streaked, the most likely culprit is tank agitation. Others will chime in with suggestions.

[Ronan]

No scratches, just a strip thats underdeveloped then over on both sides of it. It lines up with the suppost section in the middle of the cage if that makes sense.

I agitated the same as i would any other tank? I did notice that a lot of the negs had slipped froward from their grooves and were almost up against the side of the tank but that didn't make any marks.

such a shame to have negs destroyed that i can never retake.

[Doremus Scudder]

No scratches, just a strip thats underdeveloped then over on both sides of it. It lines up with the suppost section in the middle of the cage if that makes sense.

I agitated the same as i would any other tank? I did notice that a lot of the negs had slipped froward from their grooves and were almost up against the side of the tank but that didn't make any marks.

such a shame to have negs destroyed that i can never retake.

Really too bad. It's always worth a test or two when using a new developing method. I never use new anything with important negatives; only the tried-and-true.

Your problem is likely one of two things. Either your agitation left a dead spot where development didn't happen as rapidly as the rest, or the film was in contact with the center support for some or all of the development.

FWIW, I've not heard great things about Nikkor tanks for sheet film. I've never used one, though.

Best,

Doremus

[Tom Monego]

Learning how to use the Nikor bird cage can be frustrating. I had the same problem when I first had the tank. It is the emulsion touching the divider strips. If you load the cage with the base up you don't have the problem. I have the film cut outs facing up towards the top of the cage, facing out, base side towards me. I haven't had a problem since figuring that out.
242995

[Gary Beasley]

Ive had the same thing happen with my Nikor tank. I have the metal band that restrains the negs too, no problem with the negs slipping. I finally quit using it and turned to my Jobo. Much better results.

[Tin Can]

Mine works fine, but I use it only for 3 1/4 X 4 1/4

It needs VERY careful height setup

So I never change it

[Ronan]

Thanks everyone, I just cant believe it would do so much damage.

Dont see how i could have set it up any better and from what i can gather here I had the negs aligned correctly.

Very sad day.

[Tin Can]

Have you done one at a time trays

I never screw that up


Thanks everyone, I just cant believe it would do so much damage.

Dont see how i could have set it up any better and from what i can gather here I had the negs aligned correctly.

Very sad day.

[Vaughan]

My guess is that the tank is missing the metal band that wraps around the outside of the reel to prevent the sheets from moving around and sliding out. Most tanks on the used market are missing this part.

[Mark Sampson]

A simple rubber band will replace the original stainless one.
But as i posted in another thread, these tanks are difficult to master. One thing that helped me was to have a dozen scrap negatives around, to practice loading the reel with. Of course practice in room light, to check the reel alignment and to see where you go wrong loading it.
I used to practice that way before every real film run. And for insurance, split up the day's film into two batches and process one half of them at a time.
Like Tin Can, I had better luck with 3-1/4"x4-1/4" film than 4x5. But I was able to build a darkroom and go back to processing in trays; a method with its own disadvantages, but ones I have long experience with.

[Ronan]

I didn't know it needed a band to hold them in place. I have practiced carefully loading the scrap films and the alignment was correct. I just cant see how the marks were made or how it could be avoided in future.

I think i should probably just move to some kind of tank and dipping system. I lost 5 rolls of 35mm in my JOBO ATL 1500 on a freak that it didnt pump the developer properly.

Anyone want to buy an ATL and a Nikkor tank? :(

[Tin Can]

We don't sell on open Forum

Use FS thread

I process 4 up 4X5 KODAK only, film or plate Hangers

I can dip and dunk 16 films at one go


I didn't know it needed a band to hold them in place. I have practiced carefully loading the scrap films and the alignment was correct. I just cant see how the marks were made or how it could be avoided in future.

I think i should probably just move to some kind of tank and dipping system. I lost 5 rolls of 35mm in my JOBO ATL 1500 on a freak that it didnt pump the developer properly.

Anyone want to buy an ATL and a Nikkor tank? :(

[Michael R]

Do you do that manually or do you always use your gas burst system?


We don't sell on open Forum

Use FS thread

I process 4 up 4X5 KODAK only, film or plate Hangers

I can dip and dunk 16 films at one go

[Tin Can]

Always gas

and I do it in daylight after loading

then water stop, covered, no agitation

tank 3 is TF5

lastly 70F filtered water

The 3 bubbler tanks are in a 70F flowing big tank

all SS



Do you do that manually or do you always use your gas burst system?

[Michael R]

That’s interesting - I didn’t realize your tank setup was daylight. Even better.


Always gas

and I do it in daylight after loading

then water stop, covered, no agitation

tank 3 is TF5

lastly 70F filtered water

The 3 bubbler tanks are in a 70F flowing big tank

all SS

[popdoc]

So sorry for your loss.

It’s not agitation related.

Your “dead spots” are absolutely related to there not being a restraining strip/rubber band in place.

Without the restraining stainless steel strip, or a rubber band, the negatives will release from their original position, flatten out some, and come in contact with , and rest against, the internal spiral guide that’s in front of the emulsion. Resting firmly against the spiral, the emulsion does not receive any exposure to the processing chemistry. Hence, the dead spot…

If you don’t have a stainless steel strip, be careful with how tight you use a rubber band. You don’t want to make it so tight that you make the film bow further, and then it comes in contact with a spiral behind it. Like Goldilocks said, “just right“…

Don’t give up…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ronan]

Thank you! I bought the tank from a reputable seller, you would have expected him to know this was missing. I thought that the sides of the tank were meant to hold them in positon. Ill try it one more time on some test films. Just such a shame to loose those. I have been under a lot of pressure lately. mixed up the graflock backs and thought i was developing differnt images for a "test run". Heart breaking but ill keep trying.

Regards

Ronan

[Ronan]

Always gas

and I do it in daylight after loading

then water stop, covered, no agitation

tank 3 is TF5

lastly 70F filtered water

The 3 bubbler tanks are in a 70F flowing big tank

all SS

what kind of tank system do you use? I would like to buy a new processor and invest in something that has no automation and can do a cage of reels and sheets at different times.

Enough of these auto machines ive lost too much to errors now.


Thank you

[Ronan]

so sorry for your loss.

It’s not agitation related.

Your “dead spots” are absolutely related to there not being a restraining strip/rubber band in place.

Without the restraining stainless steel strip, or a rubber band, the negatives will release from their original position, flatten out some, and come in contact with , and rest against, the internal spiral guide that’s in front of the emulsion. Resting firmly against the spiral, the emulsion does not receive any exposure to the processing chemistry. Hence, the dead spot…

if you don’t have a stainless steel strip, be careful with how tight you use a rubber band. You don’t want to make it so tight that you make the film bow further, and then it comes in contact with a spiral behind it. Like goldilocks said, “just right“…

don’t give up…


sent from my iphone using tapatalk

thank you!