PDA

View Full Version : Any 4X5 field camera to recommend?



Scheme
16-May-2006, 00:12
I decide to buy one of these large format field cameras for landscape.
Any suggestion?
What field camera do you guys have?

Richard Littlewood
16-May-2006, 00:41
Walker Titan SF. Good looking, tough, dosn't mind wet or hot weather, good bag bellows, a bit heavier than wood but as fragile as a tank.

Pete Skerys
16-May-2006, 01:40
A good place to start would be Q.-Tuan Luong's "4x5 round up" at the LF Home Page (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup4x5.html). Phillip Greenspan also wrote some stuff about using a 4x5 - check out photo.net for that (http://photo.net/equipment/large-format/). Although the reviews are somewhat negative the issues he raises should be considered.
Start thinking about what sort of photography you wish to do, do more research, ask questions (here's a good place), and establish your budget. You can get a serviceable 45 for very little $ but you can also spend a small ranson on something like an Ebony. It depends on your needs/desires. But remember there's plenty of other gear you'll need - lense/s, film holders, tripod, dark cloth, meter ENLARGER, etc, etc...
Personally, I picked up a Wista 45 a few years ago. While it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the more specialised cameras it does most of what i require. I just shoot within it's limits - and you'll find even the 'best' cameras have their limits.
LF photography is not for everyone. You need to be patient and often fussy. But the rewards can be great. If you find LF photography is your thing you are about to embark on an epic journey, good luck! May the light be with you.
pete

Ole Tjugen
16-May-2006, 03:51
"Any 4x5" field camera"... Yes, I can recommend that. Or a 5x7" one.

Any camera will do the job. Some are better than others at some jobs, but not quite so good at other jobs.

There's often a trade-off between weight and stability - I have seen some very wobbly lightweight cameras. On the other hand I have seen some very wobbly massive studio cameras too, so there are many exceptions.

Mine was a Linhof Color for many years (a monorail light enough to use in the field), but I have now replaced it with a Carbon Infinity (ditto, but even more so). I can recommend the Carbon Infinity as the most versatile of all cameras - if you can find one in the first place, and can afford it if you do find one.

steve simmons
16-May-2006, 05:00
Before buying a camera may I suggest somer reading.

Getting Started in Large Format. It is a free article on the View Camera web site

www.viewcamera.com

and then go to the Free Articles section. There are several articles there that may be helpful.

Find one or more of these books

Large Format Nature Photography by Jack Dykinga

User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone

Using the View Camera that I wrote

If you have the chance come to the Large Fomrat Conference Trade Show in Rockford, IL June 9-11. The trade show is free and there willl be lots of cameras to look at and play with. Rockford is one hour from Chicago. The trade show is at the Bext Western Clocktower Resort and there is no admission charge.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

Ken Lee
16-May-2006, 08:41
Primary considerations: size, weight, ease of use, speed of setup and knock-down, compatability with short/long lenses, suitability for foul weather conditions, durability, range of movements, price, availability of parts, cost of parts, build quality, ability to use standard backs. (I probably overlooked a few here).

Depending on your requirements, only you can prioritze the list and come up with your own solution. You may want to get an Ebony, but conclude that the cost is prohibitive and settle for a Calumet instead. It all depends on how/where/when you shoot.

You may not get the best camera for your purposes the first time. I am on my fourth 4x5 camera now, a Wisner Technical Field (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/tech.html). It meets my requirements best. It's not perfect, but close. I got mine used, at a good price. They don't come up for sale often. I got lucky.

Mike H.
16-May-2006, 09:31
Good advice from everyone. Knowing your options before making a decision can never be bad. Just do me one favor - make sure that you include the ARCA-SWISS field camera in your deliberations. The construction is technically superior, the movements are so fine and easy to make, and the equipment is relatively light weight. The ground glass displays the image very brightly. They are great cameras - and modular when it comes to upgrading. As with everything, there are pros and cons: the cons are that it is relatively costly and you can have slow service depending on where you are and who you deal with. But, I love mine.

Alan Davenport
16-May-2006, 09:54
In general, I have to go with the "any field camera" response, since (IMO) any field camera is pretty much like any other -- a light tight (you hope) box that holds a lens at one end and film at the other. Virtually any field camera will have adequate movements for landscape photos. Likewise, wind and weather will easily overcome any camera, so most are adequately rigid and weatherproof. (In truth most are NOT weatherproof to any degree and must be protected from nasty conditions, and ANY bellows will cause vibration problems in the wind. A thousand dollars more might gain you a few MPH in wind tolerance.)

IMHO, a camera that has front and back tilts, front and back swings and front rise/fall will be sufficient for just about any landscape need. You can effect lateral shifts by using swings on both standards. I don't generally include old press cameras in my personal list of acceptable field cameras, although a few like the the Busch Pressman come close.

Where you'll find real differences is the length of the bellows; depending on your choice of lenses some cameras may not have enough bellows, or not perform well with your wide angles. For ultrawides, you might prefer a camera with a bag bellows option.

My personal choice is the Tachihara (technically mine is a Calumet Wood Field XM, a Tachihara in Calumet's clothing.) It will supposedly handle a 300mm lens but it would be pretty stretched out by then. On the short side, they claim it will handle 65mm but you wouldn't be able to use much tilt (if any) because the bellows is too compressed. My lenses range from 90mm to 254mm and the camera has no trouble with anything in that range. It doesn't offer interchangeable bellows, so no bag option.

I think Ken hit on the truth: any camera is a compromise, whether you sacrifice a little versatility or speed of operation to save some money, or you sacrifice a bunch of money for more foofaraw (sp?)... It's your money and your choice.

David Karp
16-May-2006, 10:45
All the above is useful information for anyone. Other things to consider: What lenses do you want to use? Some field cameras handle wide angle lenses better than do others. Other cameras do not have long enough bellows to use long lenses.

Where do you live? Wood might not be the best material for you if you live in wet humid areas, or areas with lots of rain. Aluminum or plastic might be better. Others disagree on this, but it is worth considering.

Where will you use it? How, and how long, do you plan to carry it. Some cameras are heavier than others.

Answers to these sorts of questions are necessary before we can give you good advice.

Taking all of my needs into consideration, I ended up with a Walker Titan SF. I love it. Others may have the opposite reaction to the camera. It is rigid, beautifully constructed, easily uses lenses from 90mm to 450mm, has an available bag bellows, etc., etc. Almost the perfect camera for me.

Ted Harris
16-May-2006, 10:58
All the bases have been covered but I want to underscore one point and that is price. You can spend anywhere from less than $500 for a decent used field camera to more than $4000 for one of the more expensive new ones. With that sort of a price differential staring you in the face you should look hard at your budget considering that 1) there is much less difference between the 500 used field and the top line 4000 new one than there is between a used very basic SLR and a top line Nikon new, 2) you need to consider how and where you will be using the camera as they vary somewhat in size and a lot in weight; thus, if you are planning on multi-day backpacking weight becomes a significant issue. Or,if you are going to be seriously banging it around then metal v. wood i sanother consideration and finally 3) if you are really ready to start the adventure jus tholdyoru nose and dive in .... very few folks that have been shooting LF for more than a year or two are still using the camera they started with; best thing, you will retain a high percentage of whatever y ou buy when you go to sell or trade it.

Ron Marshall
16-May-2006, 11:25
Try to get to the View Camera conference to "Speed Date" a few different cameras. Unless you are able to handle a number of different cameras you probably will not find the one best suited to you, or your "style" of shooting, with your first purchase. No problem, as it is easy to re-sell LF camera equipment without much of a loss.

My first camera was a Sinar F1. Monorail, sturdy, simple and quick to use, a bit heavy and definately too bulky for hiking. I then bought a 3# Toho, which suits me perfectly.

John Kasaian
16-May-2006, 11:41
Just get an 8x10. Or 11x14. Why mess with an enlarger?

Don Miller
16-May-2006, 11:55
I suggest an inexpensive camera.

You just won't know what you want until you have had some experience. I suggest the Shen Hao if you want to buy new. Don't start with a wide lens.

steve simmons
16-May-2006, 12:06
I would also encourage you to get to the View Camera Conference free trade show. There is no substitute for being able to handle and fondle cameras to decide which one is best for you.

It is all about features. What lenses do you want to use, what will you be photographing. On the View Camera web site I mentioned earlier there is an article called Getting Started in Large Format that will help you decide what features you need.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

raucousimages
16-May-2006, 12:39
I love my Toyo 45AII. Accessories also interchange with my Toyo studio cameras.

Daniel Otranto
16-May-2006, 16:17
shen hao or tachihara cameras are fantastic for the money

Gregory Gomez
16-May-2006, 17:23
Here is a list of new folding field cameras to consider. I didn't include any monorail designs, nor did I include cameras with stratospheric price tags:

1. 4x5 Deardorff: $2,575 (http://www.deleon-ulf.com/)

2. 4x5 Zone VI: $1,500 (http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/ZN1000.html)

3. Shen-Hao HZX 4x5-IIa: $600 (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=120)

(Bellows won't accommodate a non-telephoto 300mm lens)

4. Wisner 4x5 Flight Compact: $1,950 (http://www.wisner.com/flight.htm)

(Will be about $2,500 after Wisner's company reorganizes, if ever.)

5. ToyoView 45CF 4x5 Light Weight Starter Camera: $810 (http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=153)

(Bellows won't accommodate a non-telephoto 300mm lens)

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Greg

Scheme
16-May-2006, 17:28
Thanks everyone.
I will follow your links and do some study on that.

I just have a 35mm camera and one Dslr. I want to try some Large format camera, one of the reason is that I like to have some movement which most 35mm cameras (lens) can not provide.
I would like to use the large format camera 70% of time to shoot landscape, I like hiking for medium distance (8~10 miles a day max). I like 24mm~35mm in 135 format for landscape.
Also I like to shoot some portraits with the large format. My favorite portrait lens in 135 format is the 85mm lens.
Although, I like to shoot sports, but I believe that belongs to the digital camera. That allows you shoot continously without worrying about the price of the film.

Which lens would you recommend for Landscape and Portraits?

My budget is about 1500 for lens and camera, but I don't want to buy some very old camera.

By the way, If I am hiking with both DSLR with 2 lens and Large Format camera which bag would you recommend?

How about hard cases? I was looking at Pelican 1560 or 1510. I notice that 1510 is the regular size carry on case, while 1560 is 5 inches longer, as my experience with air port. So far have no troubles with carry on, but I never exceed the regular dimension of the carry on case. Should I buy a 1510 or 1560? Padded or Foam?

Gregory Gomez
16-May-2006, 17:51
I'm sorry to say that your budget is not big enough, unless you buy used and are very patient; that means, waiting six months or more to assemble your outfit. There are many like you who would like to shoot 4x5 on a shoestring.

Here's my recommendation given your budget:

1. Shen-Hao 4x5 Camera: $600

2. Fujinon A240/9.0: $750 (Portrait lens par excellent! It's about a 70mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

3. Fujinon SW 90mm/8.0: $795 (It's about a 28mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

4. Fujinon CMW 125mm/5.6: $635 (It's about a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

Buy a Gitzo tripod and go to the nearest REI store to get fitted for a good internal frame pack for your eight-to-ten mile trips. The hard cases are fine for air travel, but I wouldn't use them in the field.

Also, you will need a Pentax Digital Spot meter, dark cloth, film holders, and focusing loupe, not to mention filters.

Buy from Badger Graphics; they will have everything you'll need and they will treat you well.

Are you sure you want to do 4x5?

Scheme
16-May-2006, 19:57
I'm sorry to say that your budget is not big enough, unless you buy used and are very patient; that means, waiting six months or more to assemble your outfit. There are many like you who would like to shoot 4x5 on a shoestring.

Here's my recommendation given your budget:

1. Shen-Hao 4x5 Camera: $600

2. Fujinon A240/9.0: $750 (Portrait lens par excellent! It's about a 70mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

3. Fujinon SW 90mm/8.0: $795 (It's about a 28mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

4. Fujinon CMW 125mm/5.6: $635 (It's about a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

Buy a Gitzo tripod and go to the nearest REI store to get fitted for a good internal frame pack for your eight-to-ten mile trips. The hard cases are fine for air travel, but I wouldn't use them in the field.

Also, you will need a Pentax Digital Spot meter, dark cloth, film holders, and focusing loupe, not to mention filters.

Buy from Badger Graphics; they will have everything you'll need and they will treat you well.

Are you sure you want to do 4x5?

I think I will start with a wood camera body, and a used lens first. of course, film holder, focus loupe. I probably can use a black t-shirt as dark cloth, for meter, Can I use the meter on my dslr? I know 1500 is very low, but I can certainly increase my budget, once I graduate and find a job.
By the way, how to fit a tripod for an internal frame bag? Can you give me some link?

John Kasaian
16-May-2006, 20:39
$1500 for a 4x5 should be easy. $600 for a Tachi, $200 or so for a 203mm Ektar, $100 for a bottom o' the line sekonic and maybe $200 or so for a Berlebach tripod. Get your bride to sew you a dark cloth and use an agfa type loupe($8?) $20 will buy you a bunch of film holders on eBay---you'll come out well under budget with a new camera & meter to boot. Or get a good Crown Graphic with a 127mm for $300 or so and add another $20 for used film holders---shoot handheld and guesstimate your exposures and you're in business for less than $400.

Don't stress over gear when you're starting. What matters is getting out there---you'll have a better idea of what you really need after you've been shooting for awhile---then you can stress about equipment!

Frank Petronio
17-May-2006, 04:32
Look at my work and tell me which was shot with the $200 Graphic with the fifty year old lens OR the $2000 Arca-Swiss with the latest Rodenstock ;-)

Maybe you could tell in a 20x24 print, if all other factors are equal. But in reality there is so much you can do that it hardly matters.

But the difference in results between any 4x5 and any dSLR is readily apparent to most non-photographers.

As for gear, sure, you want to be careful buying a $200 Graphic to make sure you get a clean one. But it ain't rocket science and with eBay (or this forum) it makes it very easy to sample a camera and resell it to break nearly even.

For the most part, you can do just fine "normal" photos with predestrian cameras. The rest is exotica and pride of ownership in action. And even a silky new Linhof is still cheaper than a crotch rocket (motorcycle) or other middle-aged toy...

Frank Petronio
17-May-2006, 04:40
Oh, and I only use one lens at a time. One lens, one body. Too many choices can hurt your photography...

John Powers
17-May-2006, 05:05
Oh, and I only use one lens at a time. One lens, one body. Too many choices can hurt your photography...

Oh come on Frank, be fair to the writer. Only one lens fits on at a time, but you are the self proclaimed master of changing pieces parts. I mean this all in good fun, not criticism. You have written of wanting to try all, investing $2000 years ago, trying then selling every good piece of equipment out there. I mean no disrespect. I have bought at least one of your change overs in good condition, but be fair to the writer. You are the master of try it, learn from it, and move on. By the way I really thought you should have tried that Phillips.

John Powers

steve simmons
17-May-2006, 05:25
Without knowing what the person wants to photograph and what range of lenses they want to use I don't see how any of us can recommend a camera.

So, let me ask,

what do you want to photograph?

what range of lenses do you want to use (take your favorite 35mm lenses and multiply by 3 (not an exact factor but close))

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

Frank Petronio
17-May-2006, 05:55
Hey John, swapping equipment is my real hobby ;-)

The fun thing is that if you start with $1500 worth of gear you can try dozens of cameras, and if you're careful, you can end up with $1500 worth of gear in the end.

But a Phillips would break the bank... going to try saving up for it though.

Mark Pope
17-May-2006, 09:50
Don't start with a wide lens.
Hi Don,
I'm another Newbie looking to buy a LF camera. I'm curious as to why you don't advise a wide lens to start with.

Richard Kelham
17-May-2006, 10:50
Hi Don,
I'm another Newbie looking to buy a LF camera. I'm curious as to why you don't advise a wide lens to start with.


Because they're "harder" to use, require bag bellows (which are not available on many field cameras) if you want reasonable movements, and will probably send you back to 35mm! Oh, and good ones are expensive, which is usually enough to put me off. :)


Richard

Capocheny
17-May-2006, 11:09
Mark,

One of the down-sides with wide-angle lenses is that they tend to be more difficult to focus... especially those lenses with smaller initial f-stops. In other words, unless you have lots of light, the resulting image on the ground glass can be darker and focusing can be more of a challenge. Secondly, some cameras require recessed boards in order to use them properly.

It's NOT that you can't start off with a wide-angle lens but, from a learning stand point... it's easier to go longer. Personally, I'd suggest starting off with a 150, 180, or 210 rather than a wide angle. [I started with a Symmar 210 f5.6 and enjoyed using it for over a year before embarking on another focal length.] :)

Cheers

Alan Davenport
17-May-2006, 11:23
There's always the dreaded online auction site. If you're careful in analyzing your sellers' feedback, and use payment methods that offer some fraud protection, it's reasonably safe. You can do worse than buying used; there are lots of people who sell LF equipment that's rarely been out of the bag. You might do something like:


Tachihara, used: $400
90/8 Super Angulon: $400
Gossen Luna Pro F: $200
Half-dozen holders: $60

These are all items that I have purchased, used, for considerably LESS than the prices I list above. The rest of your $1500 will buy all the extra goodies you'll realize you want or need (lensboard, a loupe, new cable release, fabric to sew your own darkcloth, etc.) Or maybe another lens.

Despite the possibility of some initial confusion when confronted with movements, Zone Systems and the rest, large format photography is basic ("simple") photography, and it can be done on a budget. The most expensive LF camera out there still doesn't offer autofocus or evaluative metering. The cheapest LF camera will still allow you do exactly what the expensive ones do: take back control of the photographic process. Priceless.

Eric Biggerstaff
17-May-2006, 11:46
Scheme,

Knowing that you photograph landscapes 70% of the time, you have a $1500 budget ( nice!) and that you are just getting your feet wet in LF, go with a basic set up that can last for a few years and allow you to learn without hurting the pocket book to much.

You can do this farily easily I think with the budget you have and still have money left over for film, food and gas to get you where you want to go.

Take a look at the auction sites but this is what I just came up with in about 5 minutes:

Camera: Nagoaka 4X5 - $300 ( or Wista/Zone VI $300 or Tachihara $400, you get it)
Lens: 210 Caltar IIN - $250 ( a 135mm or 150mm might be a good bet for you as well)
Film Holders: 5 - $40
Pentax Digital Spot: $250
Loupe: $60 new
Total: $900

If you want a dark cloth then chip in another $40 bucks for a total of $940 ( or there abouts). Places like Midwest Photo can set up up a very nice "starter" system easily within your budget.

This set up will get you going and will provide you years of pleasure.

Have fun, don't get caught in the equipment race and keep at it. In no time you will be taking pictures we will all envy!

Scheme
17-May-2006, 13:54
I am picking up some Accessories from ebay as well as other stores now.
I saw a Toyo-view loupe from BH for $44, Is that one good? I do see a lot of loupes on ebay, but I don't know if that is for watch slides or focuse.

steve simmons
17-May-2006, 14:07
A 4X loupe is fine. Anything stronger is overkill.

steve simmons

Scheme
17-May-2006, 15:06
is there any difference between focus loupe and loupe for slides?

Ralph Barker
17-May-2006, 15:22
is there any difference between focus loupe and loupe for slides?
Yes, and no. An LF focusing loupe (fixed focus) will usually have its focus point set so the ground surface of the GG (where the image is formed) will be in focus. Conventional loupes are set to focus on the surface immediately below the base (with the loupe resting on the film). If you use a loupe with adjustable focus, you set it for either, of course.

Jim Grimes
17-May-2006, 15:50
A good place to start would be Q.-Tuan Luong's "4x5 round up" at the LF Home Page (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/roundup4x5.html). Phillip Greenspan also wrote some stuff about using a 4x5 - check out photo.net for that (http://photo.net/equipment/large-format/). Although the reviews are somewhat negative the issues he raises should be considered.
Start thinking about what sort of photography you wish to do, do more research, ask questions (here's a good place), and establish your budget. You can get a serviceable 45 for very little $ but you can also spend a small ranson on something like an Ebony. It depends on your needs/desires. But remember there's plenty of other gear you'll need - lense/s, film holders, tripod, dark cloth, meter ENLARGER, etc, etc...
Personally, I picked up a Wista 45 a few years ago. While it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the more specialised cameras it does most of what i require. I just shoot within it's limits - and you'll find even the 'best' cameras have their limits.
LF photography is not for everyone. You need to be patient and often fussy. But the rewards can be great. If you find LF photography is your thing you are about to embark on an epic journey, good luck! May the light be with you.
pete

Jim Grimes
17-May-2006, 15:51
Excellent advice; well written. It should be copied and pasted whenever a question such as this is raised on this board. Well done.

James

CXC
17-May-2006, 15:51
I started with a Shen Hao, which was a perfect intro camera; I would recommend it or a Tachihara.

I would recommend getting 2 lenses, a 90 and a 210. Start with either one if you can't afford both. Those two are enough for the first few years.

Now I have a Walker, and can't imagine anything to upgrade to from there. Amongst its many strengths is accommodating my current 65mm - 450mm lens selection.

archivue
17-May-2006, 23:19
If your goal is landscape and a lens around 135 or longer :
While i'm addicted to arca swiss for architecture, i will recommend to buy a clean Linhof Technika V for landscape.
Very well made, but lack movements for architecture shots !
The nice think with it, is that when the camera is closed, it's bullet proof ! Very good alternative for travel (but a little bit heavy !)

David Karp
17-May-2006, 23:40
Scheme,

As others have said, look for good used equipment. You can get a lot of bang for your buck that way. I think someone else has mentioned them, but think about giving Jim Andracki at Midwest Photo Exchange (mpex.com) a call. Tell him your budget. He is a straight shooter, and sells beautiful used equipment. I have purchased four used lenses, a used field camera, and some misc. accessories from him, and they all looked almost as if they were never touched. He also talked me out of buying a camera he had on his website because he thought it was not right for my style of photography. He takes the time to ask questions to find out what is right for you. Well worth the call. If he does not have what you need, he will keep a look out for it and let you know if he finds it.

John Powers
18-May-2006, 18:54
Scheme,

One method of learning that I like is to take a view camera course at a local college or vocational school. Many in this area (NE Ohio) have converted to digital, but several have a commercial course with assignments using 4x5 view cameras, lenses, tripods, lights that the school provides. The advantage over a workshop is that you have weeks to learn in progressive steps, make mistakes, and finish assignments that are geared to expanding you craft. From a base of knowledge you can go on to your specific interests as they evolve. The teacher becomes your coach. Usually there are critiques so your fellow class members give you feedback. The course I took had us work in teams of two. When you were shooting the other team member acted as your assistant. Then the roles would reverse.

Hope this helps.

John Powers

Herb Cunningham
19-May-2006, 14:45
been there many times. get your hands on whatever you can try out. Stay away from really old ones they may have quality issues.

I found your tastes change with experience.

See: "confessions of a magic bullet chaser" on this forum.

Either Mpex or Badger will let you have 30day right of return, Jim at Mpex or Jeff at
Badger are great to work with.

Jim will have more used stuff.

It is a journey

Michael Daily
19-May-2006, 17:24
I agree with much of what is said--especially with Ted Harris and Alan Davenport. I have used A Calumet 4x5 monorail, Busch Pressman, Linhof Technika III, Daardorff 5x7 and 8x10 (w/ 4x5 backs) and others, but the ones that I kept were the Busch and the Deardorffs. I almost never use movements, and usually only one normal to long lens each. My advice would be to start cheap and find out what you like. Borrow what you can and get a solid tripod. If it moves, then whatever is on top will make blurry images. Find out what kind of images you like and find what can make them. Cameras expose film; photographers make pictures. A good photographer can make a good image with whatever is available--a bad photographer can't.

Tony Ilardi
19-May-2006, 18:14
All of the advice here is good. But having said that, for better or worse, there is is probably no better learning experience than making mistakes. Buying the wrong camera is one of the more harmless mistakes human beings can make.
I currenly use an Ebony RW45 -- elegant, light, compact, well made, all the movements I need, with 135 and 180 (yes, both very close to normal, but I have discovered that I only need small differences most of time), a carbon fiber tripod and lightweight ballhead. A dozen years ago, I bought a Sinar monorail with 90 and 210 -- always either too short or too long -- a monster Zone VI wooden tripod and a hefty Bogen head. Objectively one is not more capable than the other, but the heavy, bulky Sinar set rarely left the closet. The difference is that then I did not know what I really needed, but only because of that experience did I learn what worked and what did not work. Learn as much as you can, take your best guess and plunge in. You willl soon figure out whether you need to make changes.

AlexGard
27-Sep-2013, 03:10
Hello all,
Sorry to perform necromancy this ancient thread but I stumbled across this in my quest in research on LF photography.

As it stands I have just sold my DSLR (due to financial woes and hardly using it any more) and I have invested a lot of time into MF photography of late with my 500c/m. I am falling deeper in love with film and almost see myself moving entirely to film altogether.

In terms of subjects I shoot primarily landscapes, very rarely portraits and even rarer some architecture. I have been looking at the Sinar P or P2 system and think I have my heart set on it.

While I do enjoy hiking and whotnot (I am not the fittest guy in the world) I could imagine that I would mostly still use my hasselblad if I were going on longer day walks, and eventually, should I get the LF, maybe take it, as others have said in this thread, not too far from the car etc, or to a place previously scoped out on a blad mission.

Can anyone tell me any good reason why I should not invest in a P or P2 system. I have found an entire P system for $450 (minus the lens) that apparently is in pretty good condition. A P2 for around $1100.

I would prefer to avoid wooden products if I could.

Basically I'm after a handsome, sturdy camera that I can throw over my shoulder for a few hours on a day if I want to go walk abouts. When I'm not hiking I tend to try and do nice scenic drives with my girlfriend and pull over on the side of the road to take photos. I am very patient and have developed an attitude of meticulous ritualism when it comes to setting up for my film photos, as opposed to when I was shooting digital I was rarely putting much forethought into my photos.

In terms of focal length I probably prefer to shoot on the wider side of things. Not fisheye wide, but on my Hassy I'm mostly using the 80mm lens, sometimes the 50mm, but no wider.

What focal lengths do these convert to on LF? And would I need to get a bag bellows for the equivalent focal length of 50mm on MF?

I'd also be happy with sticking to 4x5 for now. I want a timepiece I can really appreciate, much like my MF camera.

welly
27-Sep-2013, 05:03
Hello all,
While I do enjoy hiking and whotnot (I am not the fittest guy in the world) I could imagine that I would mostly still use my hasselblad if I were going on longer day walks, and eventually, should I get the LF, maybe take it, as others have said in this thread, not too far from the car etc, or to a place previously scoped out on a blad mission.

Can anyone tell me any good reason why I should not invest in a P or P2 system. I have found an entire P system for $450 (minus the lens) that apparently is in pretty good condition. A P2 for around $1100.


Heavy? Ok, not incredibly heavy but heavy all the same. And bulky. I haven't use a Sinar P/P2 but I have used and owned a Sinar F. Superb camera and I suspect the P is equally if not more superb. However I found, as a landscape/outdoor photographer it was a chore to lug around. Eventually I went for a field camera (initially a Wisner but it wasn't quite me) - a Toyo 45AX. It is absolutely fantastic and, for me, my perfect camera. I can fold it up and carry it in a small backpack/day pack along with a lens, my light meter, a grafmatic and I'm set for the day. It's a smaller package than I used to lug about in my DSLR days.



I would prefer to avoid wooden products if I could.

Basically I'm after a handsome, sturdy camera that I can throw over my shoulder for a few hours on a day if I want to go walk abouts. When I'm not hiking I tend to try and do nice scenic drives with my girlfriend and pull over on the side of the road to take photos. I am very patient and have developed an attitude of meticulous ritualism when it comes to setting up for my film photos, as opposed to when I was shooting digital I was rarely putting much forethought into my photos.


This doesn't sound like a Sinar P2. Handsome and sturdy it is. Throw it over your shoulder for a few hours to go walk about? Less so. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum that would but lugging my Sinar F2 around isn't and wasn't my idea of fun and it eventually became disused and I briefly considered throwing in the LF towel. I'm glad I didn't.

And I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a wooden camera, particularly something along the lines of a Chamonix or a Shen Hao. You might want to look at metal field cameras though, such as a Toyo, Horseman or a Wista or if money is no object, a Linhof. They have most/pretty much all of the movements you might need as a landscape photographer.



In terms of focal length I probably prefer to shoot on the wider side of things. Not fisheye wide, but on my Hassy I'm mostly using the 80mm lens, sometimes the 50mm, but no wider.

What focal lengths do these convert to on LF? And would I need to get a bag bellows for the equivalent focal length of 50mm on MF?


Divide by 3 and you have your LF -> 35mm equivalence. Not sure how 35mm converts to MF though. A 90mm lens on a large format camera is fairly wide. 150mm on LF is a "standard lens".

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Welly

biedron
27-Sep-2013, 12:04
Alex,

The Toyo 45 AX is a reasonably lightweight, metal folding camera that would serve you well. You should be able to find one in very good shape in the $500-$750 range. From a landscape photographer's point of view, the biggest limitation is on the long focal length side, since the bellows are not interchangable. You can overcome that somewhat with lenses of telephoto design. In the LF world, a 300mm telephoto lens will require less bellows draw than a 300mm non-telephoto design. Extension backs are also available for the Toyo, but they are bulky, and hard to find used, and expensive (for what they are) new.

Bob

DennisD
27-Sep-2013, 20:37
I would prefer to avoid wooden products if I could.

Basically I'm after a handsome, sturdy camera that I can throw over my shoulder for a few hours on a day if I want to go walk abouts.
.

Hi AlexGard,
The Sinar Ps are beautiful, precision made cameras, but I doubt you'd be delighted throwing one over your shoulder and walking around for hours. They are heavy and a bit cumbersome. I have a 4x5 Sinar Norma, an older, lighter weight version Sinar, but even that is not ideal for outdoors unless you "enjoy" carrying gear.

As others have suggested, you'd be well served by a metal field / folding camera like a Toyo or similar. Most of my own landscape work is with a Master Technika (folding metal camera) which is beautifully made, rock solid, easy to pack and a pleasure to use.

Good luck in your search !

P.S. When you pull over on the side of the road with your girlfriend, all of us here expect you will be taking pictures, as mentioned.

Ken Lee
28-Sep-2013, 05:06
The Sinar P shines best when we need geared movements of all kinds, front and rear. For landscapes we rarely need that. I've hiked about with my Sinar P, carrying it in a canvas bag. I've carried it around with a 5x7 back on it too. It gets heavy pretty quickly.

For real mobility I prefer a lightweight field camera and use a Tachihara in 4x5 and a Kodak 2D in 5x7. The Sinar stays closer to the car most of the time.

Remember it's not just the camera but also the tripod, film holders, dark cloth, lenses, light meter, filters, etc.

Tim Meisburger
28-Sep-2013, 05:37
I think you want a lovely precision metal camera like the Hassy, and in that case you don't want the P2, you want a late model Linhof.

Alan Gales
28-Sep-2013, 15:23
I would recommend the metal Toyo 45A or newer 45All. A very good friend of mine owns the 45A and it's a great camera. Pair it with a 150mm and 90mm lens and you should be very happy.

I own a Sinar P. It's a fine precision geared camera but also a beast and never leaves the house. I use my ultra light 4x5 wooden Tachihara for landscape unless I'm shooting 8x10 with my lightweight Wehman.

Most people go heavy for studio and lightweight out in the field.