Intrepid 8 x 10.. Is the Fresnel on backwards?

[wallpaperviking]

Hi, Hoping somebody with much more smarts than me can help me out here..

I just recently purchased the new 8 x 10 Intrepid and on first inspection, am fairly impressed. I have never owned an 8 x 10 so do not have much to compare it to but I did handle an earlier 5 x 4 Intrepid and this seems like quite the improvement in build quality.

I ordered the fresnel to come with it and am thinking there is something wrong here? It is designed to go on the outer side of the GG but as is, I would say it is not usable.

Is it on backwards?

Thanks so much in advance! :)

[MartyNL]

What lens do you have on the camera?

[wallpaperviking]

Thanks for the reply.. ��

It is an Industar 300mm 4.5. I think it just covers 8 x 10 @ infinity.

[MartyNL]

Thanks for the reply.. ��

It is an Industar 300mm 4.5. I think it just covers 8 x 10 @ infinity.

Perhaps stopped down, but not wide open I shouldn't think but I have no experience with this lens.

And I appreciate it's focused closer than infinity but it still looks very much like light fall-off due to image circle.
If I were you, I'd try to get my hands on a lens that is designed for this format.

Regarding orientation of the fresnel, your loupe should have a smooth and not textured surface to focus upon.

[wallpaperviking]

Perhaps stopped down, but not wide open I shouldn't think but I have no experience with this lens.

And I appreciate it's focused closer than infinity but it still looks very much like light fall-off due to image circle.
If I were you, I'd try to get my hands on a lens that is designed for this format.

Regarding orientation of the fresnel, your loupe should have a smooth and not textured surface to focus upon.

Thanks, appreciate the answer.. :)

Am not in front of the camera at the moment but don't think it is a coverage issue. If I move my head around, the bright hotspot moves around and I can see into the corners. By memory, I feel like I can also see the grooves of the fresnel..

Will have a better look when back in front of it but that is what I am thinking at this stage.. Not a massive issue, will just need to buy a mini hex set and turn it around.

Thanks again for your help...

[MartyNL]

It seems that the lens should cover the format.
Perhaps you could post the same pic but without fresnel?

[dave_whatever]

The intrepid fresnel is terrible, or is somehow designed for only super wide lenses, that’s the problem here. I had the same thing with one recently and sent the whole camera back for other reasons, although I would have sent the fresnel back even if I’d kept the camera. Worst fresnel I’ve ever seen.

[Tin Can]

I have 2 8X10 Horseman both LN

Both factory installed

One has it outside the other inside

Forget Fresnel

[John Layton]

Yikes!!

When offering a camera with but one fresnel lens, its typically best to have this fresnel be of slightly wider than "normal" focal length for the given format. This is because wider angle taking lenses need more "help" in redirecting rearward their increasingly oblique (as one moves towards edges of image) light rays, a phenomena also increasingly noticeable with decreasing taking-lens focal length.

But it looks in this case like the focal length of that fresnel is indeed way too short - or perhaps a combination of being moderately short with too great a spacing (cost saving measure?) between the concentric cuts.

Edit: Then again, I'd have thought that this "problem" would have made itself known almost right away to the manufacturer...given the popularity of the 300mm focal length for use with the 8x10 format - so perhaps there is indeed something else going on here?

[Alan9940]

Two thoughts:

1) As others have said, based on your pic it looks like the lens isn't fully covering the 8x10 format. I, too, would recommend seeing what it looks like without the fresnel.

2) I doubt this is the issue, but the first release of the fresnel looked EXACTLY like this on camera. I know because I had one. Intrepid realized their fresnel was not good, did something on their end, and sent me a new one. The second one was much better, but it is a fresnel...

I'm a little surprised by your comment that the lighted area moves around with you as you move your head because this isn't the way a fresnel lens generally works. You typically have to keep your head in direct alignment with the gg, otherwise the view darkens a lot. On my Intrepid 8x10 Mark II with fresnel and with any lens I have for this camera, if I move my head away from dead center attempting to clearly see the corners I can't because it's too dark. I don't know if this is due to the focal length of the fresnel, the design of it, or for some other reason, but the fresnel on my 4x5 Arca-Swiss doesn't have this issue.

[paulbarden]

I have the Intrepid 8x10 with the fresnel lens as well, and it behaves exactly as wallpaperviking describes. I have even used it with the 300mm Industar-37 lens, and yes - this is what you get. If the fresnel is mounted with the smooth side facing you, then it's mounted correctly.

Yeah, the fresnel Intrepid ships on the camera is really poor. It helps brighten the screen for general visualization and focusing, but otherwise just creates more obstacles. I still have it on the camera but have been thinking of removing it, cutting a 4x5 piece off it and carry it with me and use it on the glass just when I need to see brighter in certain spots. It's not really helpful otherwise. I don't recommend having it installed if you're getting the camera.


Two thoughts:

1) As others have said, based on your pic it looks like the lens isn't fully covering the 8x10 format. I, too, would recommend seeing what it looks like without the fresnel.

I guarantee you, the Industar-37 covers 8x10 (https://flic.kr/p/2p5BFp4) with a bit to spare. I have the same lens and use it on my Intrepid 8x10 without issue. The effect the OP is demonstrating is entirely the result of that fresnel lens.

[Alan9940]

I guarantee you, the Industar-37 covers 8x10 (https://flic.kr/p/2p5BFp4) with a bit to spare. I have the same lens and use it on my Intrepid 8x10 without issue. The effect the OP is demonstrating is entirely the result of that fresnel lens.

I bow to your experience because I don't own any Industar lens. But, what I can say for sure is that on my Intrepid 8x10 Mark II w/fresnel and my Fuji 240A, Fuji 360A, and Fuji 450C lenses that I use on this camera I only see that kind of darkening effect when I move my head off-center. It is frustrating because I always like to check the edges and corners of my frame; hard (impossible?) to do with this fresnel. Since I only use this camera for longer distance hikes, I've left it installed; otherwise, I'd remove it.

[paulbarden]

I bow to your experience because I don't own any Industar lens. But, what I can say for sure is that on my Intrepid 8x10 Mark II w/fresnel and my Fuji 240A, Fuji 360A, and Fuji 450C lenses that I use on this camera I only see that kind of darkening effect when I move my head off-center. It is frustrating because I always like to check the edges and corners of my frame; hard (impossible?) to do with this fresnel. Since I only use this camera for longer distance hikes, I've left it installed; otherwise, I'd remove it.

Yep. My experience suggests that the fresnel only gets in the way, more than it helps. I'm going to remove mine today and see how it is to use with my f6.8 Gundlach Anastigmat - my most challenging lens in most conditions.

[wallpaperviking]

Thanks to everybody for their response, much appreciated!

Have reached out to Intrepid, so will see what they say. So far, their customer service has been excellent, so hopefully they have some insight into this issue.

I can definitely rule out the coverage issue, as I can see into the corners when I move my head around.. The "hotspot" just tends to move around.

I have attached another photo that has the Intrepid logo on the right hand side. Maybe somebody who owns one can confirm that this is where it sits. Camera is in portrait orientation. I feel like I can see the fresnel "grooves" which would indicate that the smooth side is not facing me.


Think I will just go and buy a little mini hex set and take it off and see what it looks like without..

Thanks again for all your help, much appreciated! :)

[wallpaperviking]

Just looking at it again, i think the Intrepid logo is etched into the GG...

So not relevant in determining the placement of the fresnel..

[wallpaperviking]

So, had a rummage around and was able to source a mini hex key. Have flipped the fresnel around and it seems it has been placed on backwards. Very hard to capture with my Iphone but there is definitely less of a "hotspot" and the overall image appears more evenly illuminated.


What do you guys think?

Thanks again :)

[MartyNL]

These images definitely look better than the first photo in the original post but how much that is down to the re-positioned fresnel, I don't know?

It shouldn't be difficult to tell the two sides of the fresnel apart, just run your nail lightly over the surface. The scored, ribbled, textured side faces the lens.

[wallpaperviking]

Thanks again for the response, much appreciated!

So, based on your advice regarding the textured side of the fresnel, it was placed correctly. I have the smooth side facing me (and this is how it came). Which makes me very confused! As is, am not sure it can be used. It creates a very bright "hotspot" and this moves around as you move your head around. It is extremely distracting though and does not enable you to see the whole image as a whole, as any part of the image outside of the hotspot, largely turns to black.

My basic understanding of a fresnel, is that it is designed to spread the light better and eliminate the hotspot effect found on the GG. This almost does the opposite somehow. Yes, it is bright but the "hotspot" issue is worse.

Intrepid have already got back to me with regards to this but I will update them and see what they say.

Thanks! :)

[MartyNL]

Since you've got this far, and for the sake of completeness, how about a comparable pic showing the scene on the ground glass 'sans' fresnel?

[paulbarden]

As several of us have stated, the Intrepid fresnel introduces at least as many problems as it solves. It's pretty useless.

[Alan9940]

@wallpaperviking - I happened to have my Intrepid out today for some testing so I snapped a phone pic of the gg for you to see another fresnel on this camera. Even in my not so great phone pic, you can clearly see that I'm not seeing nearly the darkening effect that you are. The right side appears darker than the left in this pic, but I can assure you that when standing directly behind the camera, inline with the lens the view is bright and of the same brightness across the entire viewing area. When I shift my head left or right, the corners and most of the side area goes very dark; in other words, it would be impossible to get a loupe into the corners to check sharpness. In my experience, this is typical of any fresnel.

Full disclosure: I don't have a 300mm lens for this camera so I used the closet I had--my Fuji 360A.

242832

[Max Grew]

Hello, Max from Intrepid here, whilst our fresnel is receiving a bit of a bashing in this thread I am quite thankful for it because it alerted us to an unexpected problem. We ordered 500 8x10 Fresnel screens from our manufacturer quite a while ago and have been slowly working through that box with very few complaints, this was the second version of this product and works MUCH better than the first go at it. as we got the bottom of this big box of fresnel screens we started to get a few emails saying they were not working properly. it turns out a few at the bottom of the box (about 12) are the completely wrong focal length.

@wallpaperviking has unfortunately got one of those and it looks like a few others in this thread either got one of the original bad ones a long time ago or one from this small batch of incorrectly manufactured ones. either way we will be in touch with replacements soon and if you think you have a bad one feel free to send us a quick email so we can get you a new one ASAP

Its a frustrating one as we did a lot of testing on this batch of fresnel screens, pulling one out every 30 or so to check and they all worked great!

Sorry for the inconvenience and confusion to anyone who got a bad one! as you can see in the post above this one, our fresnel screens do actually work well! for anyone reading this yet to place an order, all of the faulty ones have been found and disposed of, all of the ones we have left in stock have been tested and are working perfectly

feel free to reply if you have any questions

Thanks, Max

[MartyNL]

Bravo, Max and Intripid!

[John Layton]

Yes indeed...Kudos to Max for stepping up to the plate!

[paulbarden]

Hello, Max from Intrepid here, whilst our fresnel is receiving a bit of a bashing in this thread I am quite thankful for it because it alerted us to an unexpected problem. We ordered 500 8x10 Fresnel screens from our manufacturer quite a while ago and have been slowly working through that box with very few complaints, this was the second version of this product and works MUCH better than the first go at it. as we got the bottom of this big box of fresnel screens we started to get a few emails saying they were not working properly. it turns out a few at the bottom of the box (about 12) are the completely wrong focal length.

@wallpaperviking has unfortunately got one of those and it looks like a few others in this thread either got one of the original bad ones a long time ago or one from this small batch of incorrectly manufactured ones. either way we will be in touch with replacements soon and if you think you have a bad one feel free to send us a quick email so we can get you a new one ASAP

Its a frustrating one as we did a lot of testing on this batch of fresnel screens, pulling one out every 30 or so to check and they all worked great!

Sorry for the inconvenience and confusion to anyone who got a bad one! as you can see in the post above this one, our fresnel screens do actually work well! for anyone reading this yet to place an order, all of the faulty ones have been found and disposed of, all of the ones we have left in stock have been tested and are working perfectly

feel free to reply if you have any questions

Thanks, Max

Hi Max.
Yes, I got one of those "bad" Fresnel screens with my 8x10 purchased a bit more than a year ago. It never worked well, but I just assumed this was as good as it got. I will email you about it, thanks.

Paul

[wallpaperviking]

I agree, Kudos to Max for acknowledging the issue and offering to resolve it for customers affected.. :)

Pretty happy that this is resolved and I can reassure myself that I am not going nuts..

[Axelwik]

I ordered a fresnel with my Intrepid 5x7 camera, and then removed it. Works better without it.

[Tin Can]

Never considered a Fresnel for my 8X10 Intrepid

[Vaughan]

Hello Max

I recently purchased a Mk5 black 4x5 and think that what Intrepid has done and are doing is excellent. Hardware is hard.

Keep up the good work.