National park closures

[drj52]

A government shutdown on Sunday at 12:01am would cause closure of all National Parks with admission gates or fee booths. There will also be no updates on road or trail conditions.

[Drew Wiley]

Depends on the specific roads. Some are thru highways with conditions monitored by State agencies as well. Here in CA there was so much storm and flashflood damage already in past months that not all routes have even been repaired yet, and many of them would close down this next month anyway due to impending snowfall. Some emergency staffing will be around in terms of search and rescue, because a lot of backpackers are currently in the backcountry already.

[BrianShaw]

That could be the least of the inconvenience, as we have learned from past government shutdowns.

[Willie]

If employees are furloughed for the duration and once over are given pay for the time off - why not just keep them on? Nothing political, just does not make sense.

[Tin Can]

NYC

8 inches rain

more today

[Thad Gerheim]

The state of Utah was planning on keeping their big 5 parks open with state money and then hopefully be reimbursed for it. But now they found out that they wouldn't be reimbursed, so we will have to see what the do.

[Alan Klein]

The state of Utah was planning on keeping their big 5 parks open with state money and then hopefully be reimbursed for it. But now they found out that they wouldn't be reimbursed, so we will have to see what the do.

Why go to Utah if the parks are closed? Well, there is Dead Horse Point State Park, really magnificent. Can't you get into Canyonlands a National Park without the gate from Dead Horse?

[drj52]

The state of Utah was planning on keeping their big 5 parks open with state money and then hopefully be reimbursed for it. But now they found out that they wouldn't be reimbursed, so we will have to see what the do.

We just returned a few days ago from doing the 5-park loop. How would it work for the state to keep them open? Would they write checks to the Park Service? Could the Park Service accept them?

Edit: Apparently they can: “the U.S. Department of Interior announced national parks nationwide would close. However, the agency said "parks may enter into non-reimbursable arrangements with state, local or Tribal governments, cooperating associations, and/or other third parties for donations to fund the full operation of an individual park site or of specified services that clearly benefit the park and public by providing enhanced visitor health, protection and safety."

Keeping a place like Zion open, with the shuttle system, etc., may get quite expensive.

[drj52]

That could be the least of the inconvenience, as we have learned from past government shutdowns.

Clearly there are much more serious consequences, but they wouldn’t be relevant to this subforum.

[Thad Gerheim]

How would it work for the state to keep them open? Would they write checks to the Park Service? Could the Park Service accept them?[/QUOTE]

That was a big problem when they tried to keep the parks open during the last shutdown. They are trying to somehow get the checks more directly to the employees.

[h2oman]

With a little research, one can find a number of interesting places in Utah that are not national parks or monuments.

[Vaughn]

With a little research, one can find a number of interesting places in Utah that are not national parks or monuments.

Yes, many state parks in Utah such as Goblin Valley...unfortunately they might get a little more crowded with the National Parks closed.

[Alan Klein]

How would it work for the state to keep them open? Would they write checks to the Park Service? Could the Park Service accept them?

That was a big problem when they tried to keep the parks open during the last shutdown. They are trying to somehow get the checks more directly to the employees.[/QUOTE]

More important is what happens to those photographer visitors who spent thousands for air and hotels to visit these parks and are now stuck with film in their freezers?

[Alan Klein]

With a little research, one can find a number of interesting places in Utah that are not national parks or monuments.

Too cold to float in the Great Salt Lake and too warm to ski yet.

[Alan Klein]

Monument Valley would be open as it isn't a state or national park but beings to the Navajo. They do great photo tours throughout the reservation where Monument Valley sits.

[drj52]

Monument Valley would be open as it isn't a state or national park but beings to the Navajo. They do great photo tours throughout the reservation where Monument Valley sits.

It should be noted that the park will be closed during the eclipse two weeks from now.

[Drew Wiley]

Alan - there are many many places in the West to go apart from the Natl Parks, including in both CA and UT. But this is an especially sensitive year. In our CA Sierra Range, unusually high winter snowfall seriously delayed access to high country, and road damage is still being repaired. As a consequence, unusually high numbers of people are finally heading into the backcountry during this brief little window of opportunity before the next season of serious snowfall begins (it's already snowing above 8000 ft this weekend).

Only certain trails are open; and off-trail hiking is more sketchy than usual due to all the previous storm damage and high stream flow. People's routes go into the NP's and through them. The Wilderness Rangers themselves do an exceptional job, but are far and few between, operate only until mid Sept or so, and get paid relatively little. Most rely on different jobs off-season, either with the Park system itself, or outside non-Summer employment like school teaching.

Wilderness per se doesn't have any gates. But that puts an especially high strain upon search and rescue crews this season, and their own funding. Helicopters are expensive to operate. And there are an awful lot of inexperienced types getting out there these days, expecting to get rescued by triggering a satellite beacon if something gets wrong. But the limited crews can't be everywhere at the same time, or even fly in severe weather. Strained budgets and thinned-out staffing make it even worse. They can't even control the numbers of people going in on foot like normally, or even monitoring them. Lives get lost. So they can't really be expected to deal with all the normal automobile and tour bus logistics at the same time, regarding the paved roads into these same parks.

If people need rescuing due to conspicuously violating Park rules and regulations, including illegal entry, they are liable for the full expense of rescue and medical transport, which can potentially add up to tens of thousands of dollars.

I spent an afternoon just last week up around Tioga Pass in Yosemite, and all the conventional facilities and Ranger headquarters up around Tuolumne Mdws were simply no more - nearly everything was destroyed by the heavy snowfall last winter; and the road itself was still undergoing a lot of serious repair near Olmstead Pt due to avalanche damage. The situation further south in Kings Can and Sequoia is even worse. Some roads won't open at all this year; and even the most popular trails have vital bridges out, or are otherwise inaccessible at their entry points due to summer flashflooding.

[BrianShaw]

Perhaps the eclipse will get furloughed too!

[Drew Wiley]

Our local NP holdings here in the Bay Area are somewhat different, since they are ordinarily accessible by vehicle and on foot or horseback without any kind of intervening access gate or fee. Only official Visitor Centers or other indoor venues are likely to be closed at Pt Reyes Natl Seashore or the Golden Gate Natl Rec areas. The only big problem during the last budget shutdown is that these locations had to rely on volunteers to deal with trash barrels and outdoor restroom cleanup. That kind of thing did get out of hand.

[Thad Gerheim]

We have a National Recreation Area here where they lock the restrooms during shutdowns and the off season. I can't figure what they're thinking- either you hold it or bring a shovel?

[Alan Klein]

Looks like they'll pass a debt extension. The House just passed a 45-day extension with certain payments. The Senate passed one with different payments. I figure these should be reconciled in the next couple of days. So we'll worry about shutdown again in a couple of months.

[h2oman]

Wilderness per se doesn't have any gates.

"Anything more than 500 yards from the car just isn’t photogenic."

[Drew Wiley]

Best idea would be to have a House delegation be forced to clean up all the poop and paper in the bushes afterwards, and have their pay put on hold until they do. But we all know that's never going to happen. What also happened last time, especially out in desert areas like Joshua tree, is that the area got swarmed with ATV's due to understaffing, and ordinarily protected portions got horribly torn up, and all kinds of garbage and beer cans were deliberately left behind in form of mockery. That prompted more gates harder to circumvent. But certain kinds of jerks can be awfully persistent.

[BrianShaw]

Disaster averted!

Stay tuned for repeat performance: same time, same place… next year!

[djdister]

Disaster averted!

Stay tuned for repeat performance: same time, same place… next year!

No, actually in just 45 days...

[Drew Wiley]

Well, the bears in Yosemite will certainly appreciate another 45 days to fatten up on picnic boxes and unattended backpacks before their winter nap.

[reddesert]

Unfortunately as seasonal employees the Park bears are extremely vulnerable to layoffs during shutdowns, so it's a good thing this has been averted.

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, things can go wrong. Many of us are old enough to remember when Smokey the Bear was furloughed without pay, and became so resentful that he turned to arson.