510 Pyro Question

[Dhanner]

I am new to this developer. I have developed 3 sheets of 5x7 HP5 in it so far and two of them have what looks like some splotches on one of the edges. See the attached image right hand side. What would cause this with this developer? Or, what am I not doing right with it?

I developed them in a Stearman Press 810 tray the same way as I normally do. Agitate for the first minute, then 10 seconds per minute afterwards.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

242397

[Conrad . Marvin]

Were the two damaged sheets developed at the same time?

[Dhanner]

No, separately.


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[paulbarden]

This looks as if there was insufficient developer in the tank, or something about the tank design was blocking adequate flow of developer across one side.

If I am remembering correctly, many people have reported uneven development issues using the Stearman processors, but I can't recall what the recommendations were to avoid these issues. What is your agitation technique? Stearman has very specific instructions (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1273/8933/files/SP-8x10_user_s_guide.pdf?1760) for how to agitate using this equipment.

[Dhanner]

This looks as if there was insufficient developer in the tank, or something about the tank design was blocking adequate flow of developer across one side.

If I am remembering correctly, many people have reported uneven development issues using the Stearman processors, but I can't recall what the recommendations were to avoid these issues. What is your agitation technique? Stearman has very specific instructions (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1273/8933/files/SP-8x10_user_s_guide.pdf?1760) for how to agitate using this equipment.

My normal go to developer is HC-110 and I’ve done a dozen or so sheets with that in the Stearman 810 with no problems with it. I agitate using one of his suggested methods, 5 b, the “panning for gold” method. The first time I used the 510 Pyro, I processed 2 sheets of 5x7 in it and only 1 of them had the blotches on one edge, the other was fine. Today I did the single one shown here by itself. I thought since it is kind of thick I may not have mixed it up well the first time so I used my lab mixer this time and let it mix for several minutes to be sure it was mixed well.

[darr]

I have no experience with Stearman tanks, but 510 Pyro is my go-to B&W developer.
Looking at your image, it appears all edges have uneven areas of development, with the right-side sky area most noticeable, but all edges have it.
Because I have never experienced this with 510, I'd agree with whoever says to look at your processing tank closer for uneven distribution of chemicals.
Just my 2 cents.

[pau3]

Pyro 510 is the developer I use for large format. In my case, 8x10. With the 1+100 dilution, developing times are so short that a right agitation pattern is crucial. Any constant flow will leave a mark on the film. If some unevenness appears during the first seconds, it will probably remain there. I started using a Paterson Orbital processor, but I struggled to find the appropriate agitation technique. I end up using a Jobo Expert 3005 tank, which allows to develop 5 sheets at a time and gives perfectly even negatives. I roll the tank on a manual roller, with quite a vigourous presoaking.

[Alan9940]

I've used the SP-8x10 tray only for 4x5 and 8x10, but those marks look like they could be increased turbulence around the center lid tabs. Was that right edge along the center, perhaps?

[paulbarden]

Further to what Pau3 said: my default developer is PMK, and it is important to do a water presoak (before introducing the developer) with sheet films to get even development. I would suggest you do this with 510 also to see if that eliminates the flaws.

[Dhanner]

Further to what Pau3 said: my default developer is PMK, and it is important to do a water presoak (before introducing the developer) with sheet films to get even development. I would suggest you do this with 510 also to see if that eliminates the flaws.

Yes, I water presoaked as well. Do that with all my film.

[Dhanner]

I've used the SP-8x10 tray only for 4x5 and 8x10, but those marks look like they could be increased turbulence around the center lid tabs. Was that right edge along the center, perhaps?

I had thought about the tabs as well. Can’t remember for sure if that edge was along the center or not. I developed an 8x10 today in it using HC-110 with no issue. Maybe since the Pyro is a staining developer it is much more sensitive to agitation.

[paulbarden]

Maybe since the Pyro is a staining developer it is much more sensitive to agitation.

I guarantee you that is the case, yes. I suspect the design of the Stearman take isn't ideal for Pyro users. There may not be a way to agitate properly for these "esoteric" developers from the Pyro family.

[Dhanner]

I guarantee you that is the case, yes. I suspect the design of the Stearman take isn't ideal for Pyro users. There may not be a way to agitate properly for these "esoteric" developers from the Pyro family.

I’m afraid so too. I sent Tim an e-mail about it, hopefully he has some advice. Not sure if I want to learn to do tray development so I may need to look at rotary processing.


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[Michael R]

At the risk of inflaming things, why not just use HC-110 if it works?

[Dhanner]

At the risk of inflaming things, why not just use HC-110 if it works?

Well, I would like to but Kodak has quit producing it at least for now. So thought I would try something different.


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[Michael R]

Ilford makes an equivalent, and there are also a variety of other developers that will work just as well as HC-110. Anyway just a suggestion. Honestly if one is looking for a replacement for HC-110 or something to experiment with, those various DeFehr concoctions would be the last things I’d recommend.


Well, I would like to but Kodak has quit producing it at least for now. So thought I would try something different.


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[Alan9940]

I guarantee you that is the case, yes. I suspect the design of the Stearman take isn't ideal for Pyro users. There may not be a way to agitate properly for these "esoteric" developers from the Pyro family.

I’ve developed many sheets of 8x10 in the Stearman tank with Pyrocat-HD and PMK; no issues.

[Zone Imaging]

Hi Dhanner,

We have many customers that use the Stearman for 4x5 to 8x10 with 510 Pyro without issue.

This looks to be uneven development from lack of agitation. Developing with 510 Pyro requires 1 minute of agitation at the beginning no matter the developing method one chooses whether it is intermittent, minimal or semi/full stand.

I hope this helps!

Edit: I just noticed you said you did the 1 minute and then 10s/min agitation which is plenty! So I've just contacted our head of R&D and Jay. Jay hasn't got back to me yet but my R&D chemist told me it is "turbulence" almost like surge marks. This is by the fast change of flow of the developer hitting the sides of the tank and turning back. If the film is near the sides of the tank then this can happen.

We recommend to rock the Stearman more gently and ensure it isn't touching the sides of the tank when you load.

[Dhanner]

Hi Dhanner,

We have many customers that use the Stearman for 4x5 to 8x10 with 510 Pyro without issue.

This looks to be uneven development from lack of agitation. Developing with 510 Pyro requires 1 minute of agitation at the beginning no matter the developing method one chooses whether it is intermittent, minimal or semi/full stand.

I hope this helps!

Edit: I just noticed you said you did the 1 minute and then 10s/min agitation which is plenty! So I've just contacted our head of R&D and Jay. Jay hasn't got back to me yet but my R&D chemist told me it is "turbulence" almost like surge marks. This is by the fast change of flow of the developer hitting the sides of the tank and turning back. If the film is near the sides of the tank then this can happen.

We recommend to rock the Stearman more gently and ensure it isn't touching the sides of the tank when you load.

Thank you so much for the response! I did hear back from Tim Gilbert at Stearman Press and he had the same recommendation. He also stated that they no longer recommend the "panning for gold" method of agitating either. Will give it another shot with a gentler rocking agitation.

[Zone Imaging]

Glad to help!