Film Holder 8x10" for Epson v850

[Fermat]

Hi all
I have an Epson V850pro and would like to scan my black and white 8x10" film.

Is there any specific film Holder ti use?
Which One?

Thanks

[Lachlan 717]

Isn’t it the flimsy, thin film surround guide?

Don’t think they did a film holder as such.

[Lachlan 717]

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-161519.html

And,

www.scandig.com/filmscanner-accessories/epson/epson-8x10-film-area-guide-v700-v750.html

The second shows the guide. The Epson V850 webpage indicates this is possible.

[Oren Grad]

What Lachlan said. There isn't any holder for 8x10. The film goes directly on the glass within the perimeter defined by the film area guide.

[paulbarden]

8x10 is scanned directly on the glass.

[bmikiten]

8x10 is scanned directly on the glass.

And it is at the lower resolution. The 850, while a good scanner, isn't the best for 8x10 (from direct experience). It really depends on your final use.

[paulbarden]

And it is at the lower resolution. The 850, while a good scanner, isn't the best for 8x10 (from direct experience). It really depends on your final use.

And I don't expect many (any?) of us intends on making 8x10 FOOT prints from such a scan.

[Fermat]

Thanks all for your inputs.

[Fermat]

And I don't expect many (any?) of us intends on making 8x10 FOOT prints from such a scan.

Which scanner can provide a "good" quality?
Thanks

[rawitz]

And it is at the lower resolution. The 850, while a good scanner, isn't the best for 8x10 (from direct experience). It really depends on your final use.

I scan my 8x10 colornegs with the epson wetmounting holder in two parts and stich after. So I have the high-resolution scan and ICE dust removel.
For BW there is no ICE. The resolution advantage of filmholder to groundglas is about 2400 dpi to 2000 dpi net. For this resolution step I personally would not step up to the highres-scan. 2000 dpi net for 8x10 is a lot (!) of information. The drumscan services here in germany dont offer 8x10 scans with more than 2000 dpi.
What modern (USB and 64bit software) scanner better than Epson 700/800 can you recommend for 8x10?
regards
Rainer

[SimonMaddock]

not a direct answer, but this might help you to get better results

https://youtu.be/HkKx7XwIkEg

[bmikiten]

I spent over a year researching this topic after fooling around with my V850. I have 4x5, 6x17 and 8x10 negatives that need to be scanned. Here is the culmination of what I found:

1) The 850 is the best currently available production scanner.

2) Even though it is quite good, it is usually not at optimum focus and small adjustments (via BetterScanning unfortunately) make a HUGE difference in final quality.

3) Fluided mounting is well worth the effort.

4) If you can't get a BS attachment (for everything but 8x10), you can use shims on museum glass and inverse wet mount your negatives. This is a bit of a hack but it works.

5) Adjusting the included negative carriers (V850) is well worth the time for testing. They don't do a great job holding the negative flat and the AN 4x5 is "ok".

6) Knowing your final image size and purpose is very important. I was scanning 4x5 and making larger negatives for darkroom or inkjet printing. I was doing the same with 6x17 with won't fit in my 4x5 enlarger. Both were pretty good.

7) Remember that you shot with a high resolution lens and a large format camera. That quality can quickly disappear if you produce a poor scan.

8) I eventually gave up on the V850 and now just use it for contact prints as a reference.

9) I purchased a Scitex Creo which will scan huge (over 8x10) on a flat bed at 10000DPI. It is stunning but it was VERY expensive and requires an old mac OS to run it. it is, in my mind, equal to a drum scan.

10) Figure you final size at 300dpi to help you determine scan size.

11) TEST what you have and let others comment on it. I found that even a 4x5 carefully executed scan on the 850 enlarged to 8x10 was very good but not equal to a darkroom print.

In the end, you have to decide your final goals, budget and output. It will cost more than you think it should.

[Jim Andrada]

" It will cost more than you think it should."

Amen. In fact it seems to apply to everything lately, particularly LF Photography.

[drunkenspyder]

4) If you can't get a BS attachment (for everything but 8x10), you can use shims on museum glass and inverse wet mount your negatives. This is a bit of a hack but it works.


This is an old thread but thought I would ask. I am new and learning and trying to stay calm ;) through the frustrations. But after more than a few disappointing scans from professional labs, I decided to give scanning at home a try. So, I picked up a new V850, and after a few misfires [including not noticing that the scanner lid power pigtail had fallen out], I am starting to see some decent results.

I scan pretty much just 8x10. Everything else is either camera scan with my Phase or Leica. I wish Better Scanning were still in business, but oh well. So, I am exploring the Aztek wet mount and am also prepared to order some museum glass. But I have a few questions first:


I am unclear on what you mean by "inverse wet mount." Would this mean mounting the transparency to the correct side of the AR glass and then setting it down on the platen, or am I completely misunderstanding?

For the V850, any recommendations on size of glass? It looks like the base glass could accommodate 9x11 inches, but is that optimal?

Likewise with thickness. Is it worth it it to try to order a thickness based on the Ben Horne offset determination technique? Or should I just order a specific thickness like ⅛ inch and then shim accordingly?


Thanks, and apologies for any cluelessness.

Greg

[bmikiten]

I had this same issue and was so unhappy with the 850 scans (see notes above on wet scans, piecing together scans and low resolution) that I ended up using a service bureau for important scans then buying a used Scitex scanner that allows for 10k dpi wet scans. I now use that for 4x5 and 6x17 scans. Low res scans just end up looking sloppy and not sharp. NOTE that unsharp images and low res scans are two different things. I still use my 850 for quick cataloging of all my negs in lieu of actual contact sheets.

[phdgent]

For sheet film, I use the 'Epson Fluid Mount' device, which is an extra glass plate (*), having a frame with a kind of code notch on the top which is recognised by the scanner and the right scanning mode is chosen then.
When scanning straight on the basic glass plate, the scanner doesn't really know what to do and somewhat gets in a kind of 'standard mode'.

(*) https://www.epson.be/nl_BE/producten/accessoires/standaard/epson-fluid-mount/p/1865


Actually, all the 700 series Epson film holders are having a kind of a code notch, have a close look and you will see the small differences...
When the scanner's chariot starts to move for the pre scan, the first thing it sees is that notch, and when you listen carefully, one can hear the scanner slowing down for 'half a second' and then goes on.

[Lachlan 717]

Isn’t the fluid mount only up to 5x9”?

[phdgent]

Isn’t the fluid mount only up to 5x9”?

No, one can easily put two strips of tree 6x6 negatives on it with enough space leftover.

When I wet mount these strips, I put a thin sheet of clear polyester foil, measuring 18x24cm, over it and have some space left.
That sheet is to avoid a too fast evaporation of the volatile scanning fluid which I mix it myself, with 1% purely refined parafine oil in lighter fluid, which does the job perfectly.
The parafine oil is to slow down the evaporation a little, and, strangely enough, it avoids the lighter fluid to dry in and (sometimes) leaving ring marks sticking on the negatives.
It wipes off easily.
.

[Lachlan 717]

No, one can easily put two strips of tree (sic) 6x6 negatives on it with enough space leftover.

.

Isn’t that approx 4.5”x7” (allowing for frame gapping)?, less than the stated 5x9” maximum, and well under 8x10”?

[phdgent]

Isn’t that approx 4.5”x7” (allowing for frame gapping)?, less than the stated 5x9” maximum, and well under 8x10”?

Later today, I will measure mine and tell you.

[drunkenspyder]

I scan my 8x10 colornegs with the epson wetmounting holder in two parts and stich after. So I have the high-resolution scan and ICE dust removel.
For BW there is no ICE. The resolution advantage of filmholder to groundglas is about 2400 dpi to 2000 dpi net. For this resolution step I personally would not step up to the highres-scan. 2000 dpi net for 8x10 is a lot (!) of information. The drumscan services here in germany dont offer 8x10 scans with more than 2000 dpi.
What modern (USB and 64bit software) scanner better than Epson 700/800 can you recommend for 8x10?
regards
Rainer

Rainer, it's been a couple of years since your post, but I thought I would ask: how do you fit your 8x10 film into the wet mount holder for this procedure? I don't see any way to do that without cutting the film.

[phdgent]

Sorry, but I forgot to post, I measured and indeed the wet mounting device is too small for 8"x10", you ware right!

[drunkenspyder]

Yeah, the OEM wet mount tray is nowhere near large enough for 8x10.

[neil poulsen]

Out of curiosity, what’s the lower resolution at which the 850 will scan 8 x 10 negatives.

[drunkenspyder]

I’ve been scanning at 2400, and that is making files of what we might call “sizable” magnitude. 2+gb.

[Alan Klein]

Wet mount V850 size:
Using the Epson Fluid Mount Option
You can scan film up to 5 × 9 inches (127 × 229 mm) with the optional Epson fluid mount.
1. Cut a sheet of clear mounting film to fit within the frame of the fluid mount tray. The sheet must be
large enough to cover the film you’re going to scan. etc..

Open the manual (USers Guide) starting on page 34.
https://epson.com/Support/Scanners/Perfection-Series/Epson-Perfection-V850-Pro/s/SPT_B11B224201#manuals

[rawitz]

Rainer, it's been a couple of years since your post, but I thought I would ask: how do you fit your 8x10 film into the wet mount holder for this procedure? I don't see any way to do that without cutting the film.

Sorry for the late answer. I removed the upper frame construction of the WMH for a more flat mounting of the film together with a 8x10 AntiNewtonGlass to keep the film flat. No extra wet mounting necessary, but dont use "matte" museum glass, it adds some more "film-grain" to the scan.

regards Rainer

259116

[rawitz]

deleted

[drunkenspyder]

Thank you! Looking more closely at your picture, I wanted to ask if that arrangement doesn’t run the risk of creasing the film. I may try it when I get another piece of ANR glass and also add a strip of cushioning material to the edge of the wet mount frame that the film lies across.

[phdgent]

I was considering to use a sheet of clear and fine Anti Newton glass as an alternative for the 'hassle' of the wet mounting procedure.
But I couldn't find a large enough AN sheet, the largest I could find was a used one for the DURST 138 negative carrier, at a considerable price, and actually it was a little to small too...

[rawitz]

Thank you! Looking more closely at your picture, I wanted to ask if that arrangement doesn’t run the risk of creasing the film. I may try it when I get another piece of ANR glass and also add a strip of cushioning material to the edge of the wet mount frame that the film lies across.

With careful handling there is no risk to my Slide or CNeg filmsheets (modern film with hardened surface). You can soften the edge of course or/and grind it down.

AN-Glass in 8x10`format or larger from AliExpress China https://de.aliexpress.com/ or De Verre Canada http://store.khbphotografix.com/Generic-Anti-Newton-Glass.html. Hm the Trump taxes ....

regards Rainer

[notorius]

With careful handling there is no risk to my Slide or CNeg filmsheets (modern film with hardened surface). You can soften the edge of course or/and grind it down.

AN-Glass in 8x10`format or larger from AliExpress China https://de.aliexpress.com/ or De Verre Canada http://store.khbphotografix.com/Generic-Anti-Newton-Glass.html. Hm the Trump taxes ....

regards Rainer

Can you please send direct link to Ali? I tried to search for antinewton glass, but no luck.
Nielsen used to have in their catalogue Super Reflex Control glass, which is AN in fact. But they do not supply it anmyore, at least in Czech Republic. I managed to get one A4 piece of it to have it my contact print frame.

[rawitz]

Can you please send direct link to Ali? I tried to search for antinewton glass, but no luck.
Nielsen used to have in their catalogue Super Reflex Control glass, which is AN in fact. But they do not supply it anmyore, at least in Czech Republic. I managed to get one A4 piece of it to have it my contact print frame.

Hope for your luck with this (german) link:

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005006082532503.html?src=google&pdp_npi=4%40dis!EUR!25.82!20.79!!!!!%40!12000035649096184!ppc!!!&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=272-267-0231&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&aff_platform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&gclsrc=aw.ds&&albagn=888888&&ds_e_adid=726717691648&ds_e_matchtype=search&ds_e_device=c&ds_e_network=g&ds_e_product_group_id=297546631617&ds_e_product_id=de1005006082532503&ds_e_product_merchant_id=565153051&ds_e_product_country=DE&ds_e_product_language=de&ds_e_product_channel=online&ds_e_product_store_id=&ds_url_v=2&albcp=22054759359&albag=172828878419&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIq5a88_ncjAMVbJeDBx37YzIfEAQYAiABEgIK7vD_BwE

[j.e.simmons]

More than 20-years ago someone here posted about using two sheets of thin antiglare picture frame glass cut to the approximate size. I've used this method all these years.

[rawitz]

More than 20-years ago someone here posted about using two sheets of thin antiglare picture frame glass cut to the approximate size. I've used this method all these years.

But why do you need "two sheets of thin antiglare picture frame glass" instead of one? To correct something from a single picture frame glass? I made comparison tests of AN-Glass and Pic-Glass, and there was a difference not in any pics, but in some. Did you?

[j.e.simmons]

One raises the negative to be in better focus. The other holds the negative down. I didn't have access to AN glass at the time.

[rawitz]

One raises the negative to be in better focus. The other holds the negative down.

Thanks for your explanation. For "the other glass" upper the film see here our discussion. But for: the "one raises the negative in better focus" I cannot but clearly say, never,never,never put any ANG, MG, PG or else diffusioning glass between the film surface and the scan-optic and scan-line. Correcting the Epson 700/800 focus is easy by distance sheets under the filmholders, often discussed here.

regards Rainer