Film production and Darkroom equipment

[Csholl]

Hi,

I'm just wondering about the production of most Films and darkroom and analog camera equipment. Is there a good chance this will become extinct in the near future? I'm hoping it doesn't, but some people would say otherwise. Is there any chance of this? Maybe some professionals out there may have an opinion.

[ic-racer]

Most B&W films are easier to obtain now than in the 1970s due to the internet, though quite expensive. A sheet of 8x10 film will cost from 2 to 10 dollars. Shutter production and most lenses are out of production already, but there are plenty on the used market. Plastic film holder production has ceased, but high quality wooden film holders have taken their place in the new-production market. Of course old plastic holders are quite plentiful these days.
There are plenty manufacturers of new cameras. Shen-hao, Chamonix, etc.

[Drew Wiley]

Equipment is abundant, some of it more affordable than ever on the used market, some of it more expensive, depending. Same with cameras and lenses. Lots of this gear was built to last a long time in the first place. But it all depends on the specifics. Film cost is relative; you can get quite a bit of it for what some people spend to eat out once a week. But realistically, 4X5 film costs about what 8X10 film did 20 years ago, and therefore it's gone up about 400%. But large format photography need not be about machine-gunning. One really good shot is better than a hundred near-misses. It tends to me a more contemplative act.

Ignore all the doomsayers out there. Most of them are just ignorantly babbling. Right now, the remaining film and paper manufacturers are struggling to keep up with all the demand. No, it's never going to be as strong as the market was in pre-digital days, and is basically a niche industry; but plenty of people are still interested in the advantages of real film, and are dedicated to darkroom work too, and prefer that methodology. It's even on an upswing. Plan your budget, ask relevant questions, and dive in!

[Vaughan]

I studied photography (as a technical trade, not art) in the late 1980s and even back then we we all amazed that ILFORD managed to stay in business, being solely b+w and competing with the Goliaths of Kodak and Fuji. Yes, there was Cibrachrome/Ilfochrome colour positive material, but that was probably the most profitable division and was sold off several times.

It is with some irony that ILFORD are now looking pretty solid financially with both b+w film and paper, maintaining a healthy business in volumes that back in the 1980s and 1990s was rounding error for the big companies.

To get an idea of the magnitude of the reduction in scale of the (analog) photographic industry, I just purchased some Ferrania P30 and have been learning how the company is set up around equipment that was designed for research and development volumes of production.

[Ian David]

Plastic film holder production has ceased, but high quality wooden film holders have taken their place in the new-production market. Of course old plastic holders are quite plentiful these days.


Toyo, at least, still appears to be making new 4x5 plastic film holders

[bob carnie]

I have been operating a silver gelatin fibre printing business since 1991 (after quite a few year working at other labs learning the tricks) - from 91-99 the silver business ie neg, process contact and print was very active and one could make a reasonable living. At that time I used about 6- 8 enlargers when we printed shows and would have assistant set up negatives in glass carriers for each image and during the first 4 hours would make 6-8 prints , then lunch then set up another round of negs and make another 6-8 prints , all prints were then washed , squeegeed and set to dry naturally.
Between 2001 - 2016 the inkjet phase came in and I reduced my enlarger platform to 3 enlargers and in 2016 one of the very last shows I made was a series of 46 negatives of Vivian Maier's work form the Goldstein collection that was in Canada. For that show I used two enlargers and one for flash
and over a month worked my way through the show. It seems that working with older negatives these days puts fear in the owners of the collections, as they do not want the original negative handled by others. Then there are those who want an historically correct negative/enlarger/ print .

During all this time 2009 - now I. have been working on digital negs for alt printing and today we are making silver prints from digital negs. I now have two enlargers 11 x 14 Devere and 5x7 Devere and we do contact Silver Prints using the big enlarger and using enlarged negs/ and split contrast printing . My Assistant Anam and I are very busy with Alternative Printing using this method and I can say silver printing is very robust these days. We do occasionally do enlarger prints when asked . These days a lot of work is high resolution scanned in the photographers home town and sent to us or we work from direct digital capture. So to answer the OP's question , hang on to your enlarger as you will need it if you want to stay current and have fun.

I get asked a lot about the difference between a silver print from and enlarged negative and the same image printed on same from an contacted enlarged to size digital neg . all I can say is I love both methods of printing, I am pretty sure a large group of photographers would not be able to tell the difference (Drew W would undoubtably be able to see from a mile away) . But I would suggest it is a FEEL that one who has seen a lot of printed work would get. ( Vinyl/digital movie film/digital ).
I think they are both very beautiful ways of making prints .

We are betting on silver printing for the future and to date get a monthly request to teach how to print so to the OP don't worry , and if the manufacturers dump the process, you can still make your own emulsions and film plates on glass , or move to PT and Gum like I did which when combined IMHO is the ultimate process.

[ic-racer]

I didn’t realize plastic film holders were still in production from Toyo. I do see B&H offering them brand new at $300 each.

[Pieter]

New enlarging equipment is pretty much doomed. Few manufacturers left, some niche players making very expensive gear. The used market will eventually shrink, too. I see/read about so many film shooters scanning their negatives, leaving little incentive for such darkroom equipment manufacturers to keep going. Plus the fact that one needs a dedicated (maybe dual-use) space that can be blacked out vs the convenience of an inkjet printer or outsourcing.

[Vaughan]

Try buying a bulb for a Durst 138 5x7 enlarger. It will be exhaustion of such consumable items that will lead to their complete obsolescence.

[Larry Gebhardt]

Try buying a bulb for a Durst 138 5x7 enlarger. It will be exhaustion of such consumable items that will lead to their complete obsolescence.

There are non photo specific light sources that can completely replace the old Durst opal bulbs. In fact LEDs work better for black and white in my experience, and I hope to get a color capable LED source tested soon. But it’s entirely likely that some less adaptable enlargers will not be so easy to update. Most color and VC heads like Ilford’s come to mind.

[Tin Can]

Elwood 8X10 Long Necks with side Data imprint

Are also rare, 500 Watts

I test with a big coil florescent that is now also r

Very glad I did NOT fight harder for a 35mm Movie Projector with tungsten arc lamping

[ic-racer]

This thread is in the Darkroom section, so obviously one needs that to perform analog photography. Otherwise keep moving along; nothing to see or do here.

[Tin Can]

What are you objecting to?



This thread is in the Darkroom section, so obviously one needs that to perform analog photography. Otherwise keep moving along; nothing to see or do here.

[LabRat]

As long as there is a market, gear will still be produced...
But I have seen where some of the darkroom gear may look identical to the same vintage offerings, it seems there is not the QA and care when the new compared the old... One current production enlarging easel had paper slots that barely allowed paper to fit, slop in the blade adjustments, not perfectly centered etc... This would be discouraging to new or veteran users!!!

At least there are makers like Kenzel that are making good gear now (but at a price), but one should preserve good existing vintage gear well as it would be hard to find new or good used, and don't mess it up...

But there is a lot of gear floating around that has been moderately used, often for an affordable price (even now during this boom), so get what you need and use it...

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

Vaughn - current asking prices for Durst L138's are way up again. Demand is increasing, since they are very easy units to convert to all kinds of light sources. Both of mine have been converted, and the old condenser housing is abandoned up on a storage loft. No need for old opal bulbs. I even sold off all the condensers. If someone has decent shop skills, many of these can be fully upgraded for sake many more decades of reliable use. All kinds of adapters have been made for them. It's easy to fit just about any kind of 4x5 colorhead on them. Same goes for the bigger L184 chassis. Even fairly pedestrian enlargers like Omega are reasonably easy to adapt for sake of replacement light sources.

And it isn't all that difficult to build a serious enlarger from scratch. I've done that too a couple of time; and one of them is especially precise.

But Gosh, my wife visited the local recycling center last week day and brought back some old books for me. One was in lovely condition and all about darkroom printing, seems like early 60's vintage, with everything involving old beehive-head enlargers like my older brother used, but of various brands. Fun to look through. Then yesterday she brought back a lovely condition old Honeywell flash calculation device different than anything I've ever seen before. A cute conversation piece. For herself, she brought back a brand new pressure cooker that was probably someone's wedding gift they never needed.

[Pieter]

As long as there is a market, gear will still be produced...

Steve K

But if it is a limited market, that gear will be expensive and the choices will be slim to none. And the problem with some used and discontinued gear (less in the darkroom) is parts eventually will no longer be available, even from salvage. Mechanical bits can be made with the proper skills, equipment and budget. Take care of and enjoy what you have and can get now.

And so it goes.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh gosh - any serious woodworker could make their own view camera if necessary. Numerous persons have. And there's an abundance of suitable lenses out there, some of which can be economically bought just for sake of cannibalizing their shutters, which are no longer made. All kinds of machining is easier and more affordable than ever, via CNC. It's no substitute for the durability expensive die-casting, but generally good enough. Making something like color film is not realistic DIY; but one could do tricolor shooting with black and white film just like color photography was done in the first place. I'm not worried. I'm becoming an antique faster than my equipment. Things like FB printing paper and museum mounting board are getting expensive - that's more the worry. I've got enough sheet film in the freezer to last quite awhile.

[Ian David]

I didn’t realize plastic film holders were still in production from Toyo. I do see B&H offering them brand new at $300 each.

Actually, B&H are selling new packs of 2 for $149 (ie $75 each), but I believe Kumar can supply them cheaper than that from Japan.

[Mark Sampson]

Film and large-format gear have been a declining market for over twenty years. And yet most bits of hardware can still be found, if not bought new.
Some 100-year-old cameras and lenses are still perfectly usable. Processing chemicals can easily be made at home.
It's the sensitized materials that will be the problem; *someday* the factories will close. Then we'll be in trouble... but I'll do my small bit by purchasing film and paper as long as I can. Not going to spend very much time worrying about it; "reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated", to quote Mark Twain.

[Drew Wiley]

Decent used 4x5 and 8x10 film holders are abundant. It's getting harder to find clean modern 5x7 ones, but they do turn up from time to time.