2024 is the year of ultra large photography [Archive]

FrancisF

30-Jul-2023, 12:28

2024 is the year to celebrate ultra large format photography!

The coincidental alignment of the upcoming calendar year and the most common size of ultra large format photography is a good enough reason to celebrate ultra large format photography.

I have set up a public Facebook page, 20x24, that presents some of the history and current practices in ultra large format photography, with the hope of staging some in person ULF events in 2024 where those interested in this format can gather.

Please contribute your thoughts about ULF. I am sorry I missed the Mammoth Camera Workshops - it is time to bring back an inperson event.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100095072852654

Mark Sawyer

30-Jul-2023, 12:41

An excellent concept! Unfortunately, you guys will have to move up to 20x25 the following year...

Tin Can

30-Jul-2023, 12:45

Never FakeBook!

See ya never there

FrancisF

30-Jul-2023, 18:38

An excellent concept! Unfortunately, you guys will have to move up to 20x25 the following year...

Let us get through 2024 first before we think of that !

The Facebook page welcome comments and recomendations for Current and Past Masters of ULF. I am hoping there is interest in people with an interest in showing their ULF works or demonstrating the process will find the site and discuss an in person gathering. Are you in?

gypsydog

30-Jul-2023, 18:50

I believe you are mistaken, the celebration was in 1417! :)

Mark Sawyer

30-Jul-2023, 19:23

The Facebook page welcome comments and recomendations for Current and Past Masters of ULF. I am hoping there is interest in people with an interest in showing their ULF works or demonstrating the process will find the site and discuss an in person gathering. Are you in?

No, I'm afraid I can't be in, as a troll deletes any Facebook account I make, more than 200 so far. He learned the trick to get Facebook to delete your account for violating "community standards", even if the account has zero content and makes zero posts.

He's done it to at least hundreds of people, maybe thousands. He brags that he's a "Ph.D.-level troll" with "hunter-killer bots made to stalk and delete" people's accounts. Everyone knows who he is and what he's doing; several newspapers have run stories on his harassment. He's currently in Tennessee, on the run from the law after being convicted in Arizona of trying to kidnap a local school principal, but he's still very actively harassing people on the internet.

Facebook knows about it but protects him, refusing to answer multiple law enforcement subpoenas and warrants about his activities on their platform. Gotta love the internet...

Hugo Zhang

30-Jul-2023, 19:35

Let us get through 2024 first before we think of that !

The Facebook page welcome comments and recomendations for Current and Past Masters of ULF. I am hoping there is interest in people with an interest in showing their ULF works or demonstrating the process will find the site and discuss an in person gathering. Are you in?

I am not on Facebook and have no access to your posting there. Why can't you just do it here?

Dugan

30-Jul-2023, 19:54

No Facebook here, either.

gypsydog

30-Jul-2023, 20:16

Also no facebook!

FrancisF

31-Jul-2023, 07:05

I believe you are mistaken, the celebration was in 1417! :)

Yes, that was me too.....and in 1117 before that. But 2024 is the big one.

In any event, please check out the page and react/add to it. Surely you know some current and historical people who have worked in ULF that have not been noted yet.

Tin Can

31-Jul-2023, 07:16

T am working on many project

14X36" for one

Plenty of film

Fred L

31-Jul-2023, 07:43

well damn 717 is waaay long gone haha. maybe we can do July 17 next year for that format haha. maybe make it a yearly thing where we post that format on that day.

faberryman

31-Jul-2023, 07:55

But 2024 is the big one.

Yes, 20x24 is a big one. I was in a workshop with a guy who had just taken delivery of his new 20x24. The whole idea sounded great until you had to haul it around, set it up, knock it down, haul it someplace else, set it up.... Also black and white 20x24 film is running $50/sheet in Ilford's 2023 special order program. No problem in the studio though. We did a group portrait of the workshop participants, which meant we got to haul out the big Schneider Fine Art XXL 770mm f/16 lens. Talk about ooos and aahs. The workshop leader almost dropped it, which elicited even more oohs and aahs.

Tin Can

31-Jul-2023, 08:43

I am not clear on your definition of 20X24

It that 20X24 inches of film? Or Metric...

or is 20X24" of paper neg ok?

Are enlargers allowed and what size?

Alt Prints?

Intaglio Prints?

Silk Screen...

I have organized 2 or 3 Print Exchanges

Right HERE

International welcome?

Nude MEN and WOMEN?

How old?

How do you cull?

Are DIGI 20X24 Prints allowed?

FrancisF

31-Jul-2023, 09:18

Yes, 20x24 is a big one. I was in a workshop with a guy who had just taken delivery of his new 20x24. The whole idea sounded great until you had to haul it around, set it up, knock it down, haul it someplace else, set it up.... Also black and white 20x24 film is running $50/sheet in Ilford's 2023 special order program. No problem in the studio though. We did a group portrait of the workshop participants, which meant we got to haul out the big Schneider Fine Art XXL 770mm f/16 lens. Talk about ooos and aahs. The workshop leader almost dropped it, which elicited even more oohs and aahs.

Frank, is that you?

That was the 2016 workshop we took together at Common Commons taught by David Speltz and Richard Ritter. I had ordered a camera from Richard and went to the workshop to meet him and learn how to use it first hand. Here is (poor) copy of the photo made with that Ritter camera and the 770mm lens. David had all sizes XXL lenses!!!!!

I still have the negatives but my good copies of the prints are gone. I gave one to David for the gallery and swapped another with Roger Goun, another workshop participant, for his great photo of Chris Cristie on the presidetial primary trail in 2016. Roger and I are still in touch and I think he will be out again on the trail getting more of his wondering images. Maybe it is time for me a make some more good prints of that image of a happy time.

I have been using Richard's camera consistently since I got it. I built a hand cart to move it around so it really can go anywhere - no problem, no hassle.

Film cost issue? I have pretty much stocked up withlow cost or free lifetime supply of out of date, Ilford and Kodak 20x24 film.

Best,

Francis

Durst L184

31-Jul-2023, 10:29

You can certainly count me in. But let's organize here --Forget Facebook Forever--and then most importantly meet personally ASAP! .

faberryman

31-Jul-2023, 10:38

Frank, is that you?

Yes, indeed. I am glad to hear you are living your dream! My aspirations have been much more modest. I am primarily making platinum/palladium prints from digital negatives scanned film and digital files. My darkroom is only slightly larger than 20x24!

I am glad to hear you now have a custom hand cart to carry your camera. I can't remember if you were using a dolly or a garden cart or something else when we were photographing the restored village. Great fun!

Torontoamateur

31-Jul-2023, 11:02

FrancisF

31-Jul-2023, 12:14

I am not on Facebook and have no access to your posting there. Why can't you just do it here?

Hugo,

You are clearly not alone in your feelings towards Facebook. This forum is a very special place - an invaluable and repected connection that links so many in the LF community. I will start cross posting information from 20x24 page to this site and see if there is interest.
Thanks,
Francis

Tin Can

31-Jul-2023, 13:25

I know of ONE LFPF member that shoots 20X24" film

and he has gone off

famous in sports

axs810

1-Aug-2023, 00:25

I know of ONE LFPF member that shoots 20X24" film

and he has gone off

famous in sports

Are you talking about the referee? I forgot his name but remember seeing his work on here.

Tin Can

1-Aug-2023, 03:14

yes

Are you talking about the referee? I forgot his name but remember seeing his work on here.

FrancisF

1-Aug-2023, 09:23

I am not clear on your definition of 20X24

It that 20X24 inches of film? Or Metric...

or is 20X24" of paper neg ok?

Are enlargers allowed and what size?

Alt Prints?

Intaglio Prints?

Silk Screen...

International welcome?

Nude MEN and WOMEN?

How old?

How do you cull?

Are DIGI 20X24 Prints allowed?

Tin Can - thoughtful questions. My thought was to create a site to discuss and celebrate the field of ultra large photography, not just 20x24 inch works. Would you mind sharing your thoughts about ULF here (who you like, your experiences doing it, how you define the field, etc). I know you don't use Facebook so this would the right forum.

How would you go about celebrating ULF in 2024?

Thanks,
Francis

axs810

1-Aug-2023, 12:07

How would you go about celebrating ULF in 2024?

Thanks,
Francis

You should do a public demo for the community and let people look under the dark cloth...and maybe take a group photo? Share your passion with the community and educate people on the history of photography.

just my 2 cents

Tin Can

1-Aug-2023, 12:07

I thought I pissed you off!

I learned a bit with my 2 LFPF print IRL exchanges

Too limited

As is ALL social media and they are trying to steal our money

I need to know more about you. I know nothing. Paid Teacher?

Fine Art has been displaced by Banksy, I admire him and other

Think bigger

Posters?

Politics will come up

To save huge film we need to get it out of the Choir

I once took a traditional painting class, and textiles, experiments

I have Masters. ARTIC. Live Art. My final project was about money, cost of college, student loans 25 years ago!

Which dovetails with the high cost of all ART and photographs

I envision a wagon spitting out...

Make it a big event

in daylight

Tin Can - thoughtful questions. My thought was to create a site to discuss and celebrate the field of ultra large photography, not just 20x24 inch works. Would you mind sharing your thoughts about ULF here (who you like, your experiences doing it, how you define the field, etc). I know you don't use Facebook so this would the right forum.

How would you go about celebrating ULF in 2024?

Thanks,
Francis

Tin Can

1-Aug-2023, 13:42

Just saw this

The 'scale' could be giant or small

https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2023/07/in-praise-of-uninteresting-places/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=issue-https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/issues/lgb-0283/&utm_source=Free+Subscribers&utm_campaign=e230a212cf-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_169_issue_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ffd90041b1-e230a212cf-65463881

Havoc

2-Aug-2023, 09:53

20x24.... That is even less rectangular then 6x7! And not square. What is it?

Tin Can

2-Aug-2023, 10:16

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_early/1_early_photography_-_sizes.htm

Paper made the size

FrancisF

3-Aug-2023, 11:11

20x24.... That is even less rectangular then 6x7! And not square. What is it?

Havoc, I was having fun with the fact that the upcoming year (2024) corresponds to one of the ULF format sizes (20x24). Just looking for an excuse to explore and celebrate ultra large photography. I was not trying to limit this to any particular ratio.

One of the things I like about working with 20x24 in my own work is that it gives me a lot of leway in croping once I develop the negative and see what I have.

Vaughn

3-Aug-2023, 17:39

I need to be using my 11x14 more if I am to call myself a ULF photographer. 8x10 has been my usual go-to, but 5x7 is so sweet! And even 4x5.

FrancisF

3-Aug-2023, 18:43

I need to be using my 11x14 more if I am to call myself a ULF photographer. 8x10 has been my usual go-to, but 5x7 is so sweet! And even 4x5.

Vaugh - that is a topic I wanted to explore. It used to be that you HAD to have a large negative to make a large print. Then enlarging changed that and then digital got us even further removed from this fixed notion.

11x14 is clearly ULF and I imagine your contract prints are wonderful. But maybe we should be thinking of ULF as the size of the print. So your 4x5 camera could be used in making ULF prints

Vaughn

3-Aug-2023, 20:48

At the same time when we HAD to have that large negative to make large prints, I assume we had some people who just wanted a big negative. Just like me now...;)

I use the 4x5 to make 4x5 prints. The scene is composed for a print that size, and often will not 'work' at a much larger size. The below is an example that to me works as a 4x5 carbon print, but would struggle as a 20x24 image. Perhaps if one kept the viewing distance for the 20x24 to a significant length, it might be okay.

And the opposite can be true -- large images that use detail to carry the composition rather than form might suffer greatly reduced in size to a point where the detail is too small to carry the weight anymore.

Indian Creek
Yosemite National Park
4x5, 150mm,
Carbon print

FrancisF

4-Aug-2023, 05:56

Michael Wellman

4-Aug-2023, 09:39

What a great idea. Thanks for doing this. I know a lot of people loathe FB and I understand why, but it has been a good platform to stay connected with people across the world that have the same passion. I know a handful of people who are using 20x24 who are the ULF groups there. I like what you have posted and hope you continue to do so. I might have to find a 20x24 camera to play with next year.

Vaughn

4-Aug-2023, 12:23

I agree. This is a shot suited for that size. But some 4x5 are improved by a larger size as you point out.

Do you have any photographers who work in ULF you admire? I have examples of some on the "20x24" facebook page and am always looking to expand my appreciation.

In the 80s, it was my normal to make 16x20 silver gelatin enlargements from 4x5. I never printed bigger as the effort vs reward ratio for me was never high enough. I helped students make mural prints, but 16x20 seemed to be such a nice size to work with and see with. A little bit of dodging, a ton of burning...lots of fun! I have never enlarged my 5x7 or 8x10 negatives...especially those after I started using alt processes and upped my negative contrast target. My recent 4x5 negs are on Kodak Pro Copy Film.

I work with Jim Fitzgerald, who is on your Facebook site. A crazy enough fellow to handmake a book from his 8x20 carbon prints (all lettering applied to pages via carbon printing, also). Makes his own LF and ULF cameras...totally nuts stuff like that. beautiful work.

No -- 11x14 is as big as I need to go -- and I often use a modified darkslide to get two 5.5x14 images on a sheet of 11x14. A 5.5x14 neg is smaller than an 8x10 negative, so hard to call it an ULF image...the little bastard!

Pine, El Capitan Meadow, 2020
Yosemite National Park
5.5 x 14 Platinum/palladium print

FrancisF

5-Aug-2023, 12:22

Was 2013 the year of ULF ?

I am looking for examples for exhibits and shows in the past that focused on ultra large format as a theme. The only one I have found so far is the 2013 show at the Amon Carter Museum of American Art, "Big Pictures". Can anyone suggest others shows with this theme? I thought it would help in planning something in 2024.

https://www.cartermuseum.org/exhibitions/big-pictures?fbclid=IwAR1643TTftM1I91_jfP-jQBmKamBA3LFI_G9SG07y7apFzqdv7OydnjW0Os

Tin Can

5-Aug-2023, 13:16

Glass Plates

for wet collodion

Large Plates

Ken Watson, USA, a practitioner of the wet collodion process, wrote:

"The largest plate made in America was 18 x 22 ins, derived from the largest size of Albumen paper that could be bought from France.

In the 1860s, there were no enlargers, so all prints were contact prints. Carleton Watkins had a camera specially made to take 18 x 22 ins plates. His views of Yosemite are recommended."

However, Christopher A Wright, a calotype and wet and dry collodion photographer, and consultant to the Getty Museum provided details of several enlargers from the 1860s and earlier.

1850s

Tin Can

5-Aug-2023, 13:17

The largest plate made in America was 18 x 22 ins, derived from the largest size of Albumen paper that could be bought from France.

Jim Fitzgerald

5-Aug-2023, 22:06

To me ULF is a contact print from a ULF film negative, period. Now that is just me. We all can agree that seeing prints in person is the only way to enjoy a finely crafted contact print. I am very fortunate to know Vaughn. He is my very dear friend and the one who's work inspired me to become a carbon printer many years ago. Seeing his prints literally changed my life and direction as an artist. Seeing the prints is a must. I'm lucky in that I get to see many of Vaughn's prints and teach carbon printing at Yosemite with him. So a gathering somewhere? How, when and where. Most of us can only do sites like this to share our work. Sad but true. My friend Luther Gerlach is an amazing collodion artist who works with ULF and also prints in historic processes.

FrancisF

6-Aug-2023, 13:20

......... Seeing the prints is a must. I'm lucky in that I get to see many of Vaughn's prints and teach carbon printing at Yosemite with him. So a gathering somewhere? How, when and where. Most of us can only do sites like this to share our work. Sad but true.......

I am sorry I missed Tillman Crane's Mammoth Camera workshops as well as Southern California gatherings you put on with Tri Tran, and Hugo Zhang. Tillman's were before I was really aware of ULF but have enjoyed the write ups of them in View Camera.

So the idea I am kicking around is a gathering in 2024 of those intereseted in ULF to show examples of the work in person and to have workshop for those interested in the learning the techniques. Needless to say, it would not be much of a show if your work was not included.

I am located in Chicago (home of ULF pioneer George Larwrence and the masterful Dennis Manarchy). There is the Museum of Contemporary Photography and the Art Institute - both with major collections. And serveral academic/public darkrooms. So I thought that Chicago might make a suitable site. But I am still studying all the resouces that are here.

Michael Wellman

6-Aug-2023, 14:46

To me ULF is a contact print from a ULF film negative, period. Now that is just me. We all can agree that seeing prints in person is the only way to enjoy a finely crafted contact print. I am very fortunate to know Vaughn. He is me very dear friend and the one who's work inspired me to become a carbon printer many years ago. Seeing his prints literally changed my life and direction as an artist. Seeing the prints is a must. I'm lucky in that I get to see many of Vaughn's prints and teach carbon printing at Yosemite with him. So a gathering somewhere? How, when and where. Most of us can only do sites like this to share our work. Sad but true. My friend Luther Gerlach is an amazing collodion artist who works with ULF and also prints in historic processes.

Well said Jim. I agree 100%.

Tin Can

6-Aug-2023, 15:52

Not trying to be a wet blanket

I bet ARTIC basement (the main photo exhibit space) is booked years ahead

Some times they allow a quicky in the North corridor

But small and narrow, not ideal narrow

I have no Chicago connections' anymore

2003 to 2017 I had a large exhibition space in our Bloomingdale Art Condo Building Room

and my space was a huge DR

21 ft of SS sinks, any enlarger and more

I posted it with Ilford Darkroom search

I was in Art Central Wicker Park

I moved rural 2017 with my DR

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52431775105_e5cfd266a7_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/b0P571k9cL)Darkroom 3 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/b0P571k9cL) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52462776035_a0bbcfdeec_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/71rC62UcM3)17 0f 23 feet of SS sink (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/71rC62UcM3) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50914676452_d80e3d8bb5_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/4S0k3eUc36)CB 7 Enlarger (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/4S0k3eUc36) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

Fred L

7-Aug-2023, 06:53

I need to be using my 11x14 more if I am to call myself a ULF photographer. 8x10 has been my usual go-to, but 5x7 is so sweet! And even 4x5.

I couldn't agree more re: 5x7 being sweet, maybe it's the proportions, dunno. It sees more use than my 8x10 or 7x17. Haven't enlarged them yet but have been making Pt prints instead, which I'm really digging.

angusparker

7-Aug-2023, 13:17

A plug for a California location for a ULF gathering in 2024. There is some critical mass in this state….of course I always seem to miss them due to scheduling conflicts.

FrancisF

7-Aug-2023, 20:11

A plug for a California location for a ULF gathering in 2024. There is some critical mass in this state….of course I always seem to miss them due to scheduling conflicts.

Please elaborate on the "critical mass". I know that there are some prominent/gifted practictioners but are there facilities or potential partner organizations you are thinking of?

angusparker

8-Aug-2023, 08:10

Please elaborate on the "critical mass". I know that there are some prominent/gifted practictioners but are there facilities or potential partner organizations you are thinking of?

No, more the prominent/gift practitioners - no idea of facilities or partners (at least from a darkroom / photography front). Having said that it would be very cool to get an exhibit of ULF photographs hosted at Pier 24 in San Francisco. It is a wonderful space that anyone into photography should visit if they are in the city. Reservations are free but need to be made in advance as they limit the number of visitors per hour: https://pier24.org/visit/

faberryman

8-Aug-2023, 08:14

No, more the prominent/gift practitioners - no idea of facilities or partners (at least from a darkroom / photography front). Having said that it would be very cool to get an exhibit of ULF photographs hosted at Pier 24 in San Francisco. It is a wonderful space that anyone into photography should visit if they are in the city. Reservations are free but need to be made in advance as they limit the number of visitors per hour: https://pier24.org/visit/

What are gift practitioners? Didn't Pier 24 close down earlier this year?

https://pier24.org/pilara-foundation-changing-philanthropic-focus/

FrancisF

8-Aug-2023, 10:49

What are gift practitioners? Didn't Pier 24 close down earlier this year?

https://pier24.org/pilara-foundation-changing-philanthropic-focus/

Frank,

1) I used the phrase "prominent/gifted practictioners" to try to describe what I see in the field of ULF. There are some who, through dint of effort have become prominent and well known for their beautiful ULF work. But there are so many more who do wonderful ULF work (they are gifted) but they are not well known. I wanted to see if we could show examples of both.

2) Thanks for the update on Peir 24. This is exactly the sort of venue that might be appropriate for an ULF show....but they are closed.

As many people know, the lead time for a formal, well considered exhibit in a gallery space can take years to plan. So I suspect many galleries/musums are booked for 2024 and beyond. And they required substantial funds to support.

I was thought was that an ULF event should have a workshop component - so an affilation with an academic program could be helpful. Like the ones (I missed) at the Waterford School in Utah. I know that many of the people in this LF Community were involved.

But the economic model I was thinking of was more like the series of Southern California Large and Ultralarge Format Meet and Greets (that I also missed). I gather that the leaders, Tri Tran, Hugo Zhang and Jim Fitzgerald, keep costs at an absolute minimum with volunteer work and low cost facilities

So at this point, I am exploring what it might take to put together a ULF gathering in 2024. I am not saying this is a good or practical idea.....but I know there is a core of people who would enjoy it. So why not try?

Thanks,
Francis

faberryman

8-Aug-2023, 11:00

Frank,

1) I used the phrase "prominent/gifted practictioners" to try to describe what I see in the field of ULF. There are some who, through dint of effort have become prominent and well known for their beautiful ULF work. But there are so many more who do wonderful ULF work (they are gifted) but they are not well known. I wanted to see if we could show examples of both.

angusparker used the term gift practitioner which I didn't understand. Gifted practitioner makes sense.

Tin Can

8-Aug-2023, 11:46

We also have https://timlaytonfineart.com

Deep in MO woods with St Louis outlet

He made a NEW large DR and studio and home! Very Smart Move

If this dream is real you need a venue in a major city

but

Many artist are escaping anyway they can from cities

that's what I did

btw 20X24 becomes much larger with margins of matt board and FRAME

My biggest DIGI print framed is 54" X 60" it fills one wall

and settled with WET prints no larger than 16X20 without framing

They sit in drawers

FrancisF

8-Aug-2023, 17:34

We also have https://timlaytonfineart.com

Deep in MO woods with St Louis outlet

He made a NEW large DR and studio and home! Very Smart Move

TC - another great suggestion. I am impressed with his work and he is deeply, deeply into ULF.

FF

maltfalc

9-Aug-2023, 15:11

i've got a bunch of 10x12 film. 1012x2=2024, so maybe i'll build myself a 10x12 stereo camera next year.

Tin Can

9-Aug-2023, 17:20

Great idea!

i've got a bunch of 10x12 film. 1012x2=2024, so maybe i'll build myself a 10x12 stereo camera next year.

angusparker

9-Aug-2023, 20:22

What are gift practitioners? Didn't Pier 24 close down earlier this year?

https://pier24.org/pilara-foundation-changing-philanthropic-focus/

Sorry typo - gifted. Pier24.org is very much alive! They close for months at a time to set up new exhibitions. It’s a bit of an idiosyncratic place, the brainchild of a single philanthropist. As an exhibition space with limited numbers of visitors and no labels next to the works (but a book you can carry along if you want) I find it one of the best museum experiences in San Francisco.

faberryman

10-Aug-2023, 15:43

Pier24.org is very much alive! They close for months at a time to set up new exhibitions. It’s a bit of an idiosyncratic place, the brainchild of a single philanthropist. As an exhibition space with limited numbers of visitors and no labels next to the works (but a book you can carry along if you want) I find it one of the best museum experiences in San Francisco.

Is this press release they put out earlier this year not accurate?

https://pier24.org/pilara-foundation-changing-philanthropic-focus/