View Full Version : Metal Field Camera: Toyo 45A, Horseman 45FA, or Wista 45?
After one excursion in the field with my Sinar F2, I think it’s time to start looking for a lighter, more compact camera.
After some research here and elsewhere, the three cameras I’m looking at are the Toyo 45A, the Horseman 45FA, and one of the Wista 45 models.
My application is landscape photography, so I don’t need extreme movements, and my lens complement will be 90mm, 150mm, and 210mm (no extreme wides or telephotos).
Which one of these would best fit my needs and stand up to field use? I’m leaning towards the Horseman—any gotchas I should be aware of?
Or should I just bite the bullet now and get a Technika and be done with it?
Or should I just bite the bullet now and get a Technika and be done with it?
I'd opt for a used Technika. Excellent ones can be had for reasonable money if you have patience and are ready to but that camera "at once" when you find one.
All three will work fine with your lens selection. (The Horseman requires a f/8 90mm lens to fit into the camera.)
My favorite is the Horseman also.
The Toyo A is probably the most flexible - easiest to use.
The Technika's are probably the best built but I thought it was heavier than necessary and sold mine long ago.
Drew Wiley
29-Jul-2023, 16:45
A Technika with sufficient realistic support is actually going to weigh MORE than a Sinar F2 setup, which can be balanced at any point along the rail. I know all about that one. My brother shot a Master Technika, while I shot Sinar F cameras.
But in terms of build quality and mode of operation, yet more limited bellows range, you can think of a Horseman FA as a Technika on a diet. It's fine for long-normal (210) down to wide-normal focal lengths.
Tin Can
29-Jul-2023, 16:50
and bent metal is expensive to fix
I'll add that another factor is how far you plan on going away from the car!?!?!?!?
Axelwik
29-Jul-2023, 17:40
I'll add that another factor is how far you plan on going away from the car!?!?!?!?
Yes! I've always been a proponent of lightweight cameras and lenses. The OP mentioned that he doesn't need extreme movements. A lightweight camera might not have some "features" that might or might be (rarely) used, but a heavy load can stifle creativity!
For me, in a 4x5 I'd look for something between 3 and 4 pounds. And if shooting outdoors one doesn't generally need anything faster than f8. The faster (by one stop) f5.6 lenses are significantly heavier and bulkier, especially in the longer focal lengths.
Also, I believe the Horseman FA has a small 80mm lens board. Might work okay with the lenses the OP wants to use, but those lens boards are really too small to recess shorter lenses (if needed).
Also, if you already have a 210mm lens the rear element size must be small enough to go through the opening of the front standard of the FA. I think that the Rodenstock 210/5.6 lens will work. I believe it is posted elsewhere on this forum what will and not work on the Horseman.
A lightweight camera becomes more important when you add in the weight of other essentials -- tripod, lenses, filters, film & holders, bag/case,......... -- it adds up fast.
ic-racer
30-Jul-2023, 06:36
Horseman made a vast array of accessories for their view cameras. For example, this extension back for the FA allows use of non-telephoto lenses in the 300 to 450 range.
241018
Oren Grad
30-Jul-2023, 06:57
I believe it is posted elsewhere on this forum what will and not work on the Horseman.
Here is Horseman's official compatibility list (click on it and download if your browser renders the thumbnail as a black box):
Axelwik
30-Jul-2023, 09:08
A lightweight camera becomes more important when you add in the weight of other essentials -- tripod, lenses, filters, film & holders, bag/case,......... -- it adds up fast.
I think some here like to brag about their 50# camera bags! Not me. Both my 5x7 and 4x5 kits each weigh about 10 pounds not counting the tripod.
Some people carry tripods that weigh more than everything else! They should definitely add the tripod to their bragging rights!
While not a traditional field camera per se, how about a Canham DLC45-2?
How would that compare, for field use, with a Technika?
Tin Can
30-Jul-2023, 11:26
Buy it KEH is wonderful
https://www.keh.com/k-b-canham-4x5-dlc-4x5-view-camera-body-679702.html?aid=254431-2248963&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=K%20B%20Canham&utm_term=254431-2248963&gclid=CjwKCAjwlJimBhAsEiwA1hrp5swSb41JhbOAb76rnXhvIQF-wAH7CLjKCiTH2Am2faa28kaEq4PBXBoCz8QQAvD_BwE
While not a traditional field camera per se, how about a Canham DLC45-2?
How would that compare, for field use, with a Technika?
Buy it KEH is wonderful
https://www.keh.com/k-b-canham-4x5-dlc-4x5-view-camera-body-679702.html?aid=254431-2248963&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=K%20B%20Canham&utm_term=254431-2248963&gclid=CjwKCAjwlJimBhAsEiwA1hrp5swSb41JhbOAb76rnXhvIQF-wAH7CLjKCiTH2Am2faa28kaEq4PBXBoCz8QQAvD_BwE
Yes, I agree, KEH is wonderful, but how about the camera? Is it wonderful too?
Tin Can
30-Jul-2023, 12:09
Very few know as they are handmade and rare
You tell us!
Yes, I agree, KEH is wonderful, but how about the camera? Is it wonderful too?
Michael R
30-Jul-2023, 13:02
One excursion, another thread on roll film view cameras… OP needs more experience before making the wrong decision. Weight is not the only thing that contributes to a camera being a pain. Either stick with the F2 for a while or get a new Chamonix.
Axelwik
30-Jul-2023, 13:05
Some people carry tripods that weigh more than everything else! They should definitely add the tripod to their bragging rights!
Maybe so - 15# with my tripod!
kevinjp
30-Jul-2023, 13:55
It's the only 4x5 I've ever used, but I like my Toyo 45AII and I use it with a 90mm, 150mm and 210mm. I think the AII version has the rotating back as the only difference. It's very sturdy and pretty quick to setup but that thing is a brick. It weighs 6 lbs. It can make my bag pretty heavy when hiking any distance from the vehicle. I'm looking to get a Chamonix (or Ondu Eikan if the reviews are good) one of these days.
I eye-balled the Toyo 45A when I decided to move up to 4x5". It's definitely meant as portable, but that was too much weight for me considering all the other gear I always bring along. So I found a Toko Nikki-II wooden field camera with more movements at half the weight.
There is merit to all the concerns about the weight of the camera. I own a lovely Linhof MT 3000, which works like a finely engineered tool. But it is no longer my travel and landscape camera because of its weight.
I went back to an Ebony RSW and my pack is noticeably lighter and more accessible for me to carry. Maybe if I was 25 years old again, the weight might not matter as much, but those days are long gone, but my desire to travel with a 4x5 is not, so I went back to what I knew was lighter and better for my travels, and I am happy I did. Once you add the lenses, accessories, weight of the pack itself, and the tripod, you only get to the total weight you will be responsible for carrying.
But then again, we must learn what works best for us. I knew the capability of the Ebony RSW, and it is the only 4x5 camera I regretted selling enough to buy again years later. And the second time around, I knew what I was getting into and was so happy I could finally get my hands on one after a two-year search.
I wish the OP the best on his 4x5 camera quest.
Drew Wiley
30-Jul-2023, 15:53
And here I was talking to my younger backpacking pals this afternoon, helping them plan a two-week route in the upper Kern basins of the Sierra, advising one of them why he doesn't need to carry 120 lbs this time. I did it with 90, which included 40 lbs of camera gear, and off trail. Wish I were young enough to do the trip again now.
Now my little Ebony 4x5 folder with all the lenses and accessories would get me down to around 13 lbs for the camera gear part of it, but my legs won't take me the distance anyway. Gotta look for something easier.
The basis of the conversation was a look at early photos of that area taken by Cedric Wright. An 18 or 19 year old Kenneth Brower went along, packing an accordion in his rucksack. He climber two thirteen-thousand footers plus a fourteener on a moonlit night (minus the accordion). Cedric himself sometimes carried a violin to summits. The particular area was stamped with his name - Wright Creek, Wright Basin, Mt Cedric Wright. So the next time you're in REI shopping for a backpack, explain that an accordion needs to fit into it - which does have a lot in common with a view camera. Maybe a hybrid of the two can be invented - a bellows camera which plays polka at the same time.
I’m not much of a trekker. My photography usually entails driving around until I see something interesting and hiking to it carrying gear in an over-the-shoulder camera bag and a tripod over my other shoulder. Usually not more than a mile or two from the car. I certainly don’t do two week hikes in the high Sierra (I’m in shape for it, but have no interest in it).
There's a lot of distance between a two-week trek and a two-mile jaunt. That space in the middle calls for much deliberation.
There's a lot of distance between a two-week trek and a two-mile jaunt. That space in the middle calls for much deliberation.
For some of us, just the two-mile distance requires trimming the weight to the minimum.
I think my average walk from the car is a mile but in the heat. Today the heat index is 105!
Today the heat index is 105!
It gets hot here too in the summer. Temps are often above 100, but the humidity is low (20-30%), so it doesn’t feel as hot. I did a 100 mile bike ride last week when the temp was 106. The key to that is lots and lots of water and electrolytes.
It gets hot here too in the summer. Temps are often above 100, but the humidity is low (20-30%), so it doesn’t feel as hot. I did a 100 mile bike ride last week when the temp was 106. The key to that is lots and lots of water and electrolytes.
Yes, lots and lots of water and electrolytes. Our annual humidity average is 88%, but 100% happens too. :(
Any reason to favor the Toyo 45AX over the 45AII or vice versa?
Tin Can
31-Jul-2023, 02:36
Darr
I read most of your extensive 'Fine Print'
I also like your images
Impressive!
YOUR text is also copyright
The fine print...
Yes, lots and lots of water and electrolytes. Our annual humidity average is 88%, but 100% happens too. :(
mike rosenlof
31-Jul-2023, 06:38
I'm not sure anybody has mentioned the Wista 45. I have a 45SP and like it. Well made, rigid, I can fold it up with a 150mm G-Claron mounted. Not too much else to say, it does the job. 210mm is no problem. I don't have a 90, I think you could use it with a flat lensboard, but at infinity the bellows will be compressed to the point that rise or shift might be limited. I have a 75 that I've used with a recessed lensboard and the standard bellows. It works, but is not a great match. If I were buying today, I would look at a VX which is more or less an SP without the geared micro swing adjustment on the back.
Ben Calwell
31-Jul-2023, 07:15
After my Wista DX wooden camera was stolen in April, my brother is kindly letting me use his Toyo AX metal field camera. I didn’t think its heavier weight would matter to me, but compared to the Wista, it’s a brick. I’m in moderately good shape for 73, but that Toyo, when combined with the other stuff, kind of puts a damper on hiking far from the car. I’m thinking of getting a used Wista DX. It might not be as rugged as a metal folder, but the one I had for 40-plus years never broke or let me down. But I was always careful with it.
Wista offers lots of great, light, wooden field cameras, but they are not the only game in town. There many others that can compete regarding weight, features, quality, and cost.
Here's an incomplete list:
http://www.subclub.org/toko/4x5table.htm
Jeff Keller
31-Jul-2023, 08:19
The Canham cameras are great field cameras. I use an MQC57 with a 4x5 back because it has a longer bellow. If you look at the specs you'll see that they can handle a very wide range of focal lengths with their standard bellow. I don't know whether it is the material the bellows are made out of, the tapered design, or both, but they collapse and still allow movement with short focal length lenses. The cameras are also fairly light and collapse to a compact size. Keith Canham provides superb support for his cameras.
My first camera was a Horseman VH (2x3) which like the Technika folds up into a self contained box. If you want movements with short focal length lenses, the Canham is much better. If you want to use a very wide range of focal lengths, the Canham is much better. If the Technika can handle your focal lengths, it is very satisfying to just fold it up. I like the VH for what it does, but it showed me that the compromises of the Technika style cameras are not for me.
jeff
While not a traditional field camera per se, how about a Canham DLC45-2?
How would that compare, for field use, with a Technika?
I would second this recommendation. I picked up a used Wista 45SP about five years ago, and quite like it. It is a rugged little thing, sturdy in its own way, and I find that I can easily use my 90mm, 150mm, 240mm, and even the g-claron 305mm (as long as I'm not too close to my subject). At the extreme ends I have little room for movements, but that's ok, I have the vastly heavier Horseman L45 when I need more complete control. I also find it quite easy to carry in a small-ish backpack with 3-4 lenses and the same number of film holders. I can't make a comparative evaluation among the cameras mentioned in the OP, but the Wista 45SP is a perfectly acceptable machine that I have quite enjoyed for several years.
Bruce
I'm not sure anybody has mentioned the Wista 45. I have a 45SP and like it. Well made, rigid, I can fold it up with a 150mm G-Claron mounted. Not too much else to say, it does the job. 210mm is no problem. I don't have a 90, I think you could use it with a flat lensboard, but at infinity the bellows will be compressed to the point that rise or shift might be limited. I have a 75 that I've used with a recessed lensboard and the standard bellows. It works, but is not a great match. If I were buying today, I would look at a VX which is more or less an SP without the geared micro swing adjustment on the back.
The Canham cameras are great field cameras. I use an MQC57 with a 4x5 back because it has a longer bellow. If you look at the specs you'll see that they can handle a very wide range of focal lengths with their standard bellow. I don't know whether it is the material the bellows are made out of, the tapered design, or both, but they collapse and still allow movement with short focal length lenses. The cameras are also fairly light and collapse to a compact size. Keith Canham provides superb support for his cameras.
How is the rigidity of the Canham? It looks like lots of effort went into shaving as much metal as possible off the standards to save weight. For example, does the rear standard hold its position when inserting a film holder? Any other caveats to be aware of?
At this point, I’ll probably go with either a Canham DLC-2 or a Toyo 45 (either an AX or AII). The Toyo, although heavier than the Canham, seems to be more rigid from everything I’ve read, and even though it doesn’t allow as much movements, what it does have is probably adequate for landscape photography.
I would second this recommendation. I picked up a used Wista 45SP about five years ago, and quite like it. It is a rugged little thing, sturdy in its own way
Thanks. How do you tell the difference between the various Wista 45 models? From pictures in eBay listings, it looks like they all just say “Wista 45” in front of the front standard.
What’re the differences between an SP and a VX, for example? Anything functional?
I'm not sure anybody has mentioned the Wista 45. I have a 45SP and like it. Well made, rigid, I can fold it up with a 150mm G-Claron mounted. Not too much else to say, it does the job. 210mm is no problem. I don't have a 90, I think you could use it with a flat lensboard, but at infinity the bellows will be compressed to the point that rise or shift might be limited. I have a 75 that I've used with a recessed lensboard and the standard bellows. It works, but is not a great match. If I were buying today, I would look at a VX which is more or less an SP without the geared micro swing adjustment on the back.
I have a Wista 45, I think it is a 45D (back micro swing, no front swing) never sure which model it is, Kumar once explained in a thread but I can't find it back. Use it with lenses from a 75mm Fuji SWD to a 300mm Fuji L. It can be folded with some lenses. I only use them with flat lens boards. It is very limited with the Fuji 90mm SWD as this has a large rear element but even then, some rise is possible and it just fits the opening in the front standard. With a smaller SA it is easier. Even with the 75 SWD I can use rise and the vignetting is what stops me before the bellows.
If you need maximum rise, use a centered lensboard because otherwise you loose a lot of rise. The your lens starts in the center of the GG with the front in lowest position.
Thanks. How do you tell the difference between the various Wista 45 models?
Wista made heavy metal folders -- RF, VX, SP
Wista made much lighter wooden folders -- DX, DX II, SW
Most people just call these Wista 45, leading to much confusion because they can be very different.
Each has some different features, cost and weight.
Oren Grad
31-Jul-2023, 12:04
Thanks. How do you tell the difference between the various Wista 45 models? From pictures in eBay listings, it looks like they all just say “Wista 45” in front of the front standard.
What’re the differences between an SP and a VX, for example? Anything functional?
Look at Kumar's series of posts starting here:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?150243-Wista-45N&p=1480246&viewfull=1#post1480246
faberryman
31-Jul-2023, 12:11
For me, in a 4x5 I'd look for something between 3 and 4 pounds.
Since the three cameras under consideration are in the 5-7lbs range, what would you suggest in the 3-4lbs range? I started out with a wooden Wista DX at 4lbs, but moved to a Linhof TK45 at 6.6lbs. Stability and precision require a little extra weight but I found it a worthwhile trade-off.
moved to a Linhof TK45 at 6.6lbs. Stability and precision require a little extra weight but I found it a worthwhile trade-off.
I’ve heard the biggest issue people have with the Technikardan is folding it up for transport. Is it really as tricky and prone to damage the bellows as people say?
ethics_gradient
31-Jul-2023, 15:31
Wista made heavy metal folders -- RF, VX, SP
Wista made much lighter wooden folders -- DX, DX II, SW
Most people just call these Wista 45, leading to much confusion because they can be very different.
Each has some different features, cost and weight.
Prior to becoming Wista, they were Rittreck, who also made a metal folding 5x7* field camera. I have one and while it's heavy (nowhere near as bad as my Toyo monorail) it's also really tough and they're very cheap. It's my most used LF camera.
*actually a modular back system, the 4x5 back is probably the most common to find with them, but 5x7 is the "native" size. There are also half plate, whole plate, 6x10, and 8x10 backs for it as well.
Since the three cameras under consideration are in the 5-7lbs range, what would you suggest in the 3-4lbs range? I started out with a wooden Wista DX at 4lbs, but moved to a Linhof TK45 at 6.6lbs. Stability and precision require a little extra weight but I found it a worthwhile trade-off.
A lot depends on how far/long you plan on carrying the gear. There are lots of wooden folders under 4 pounds. I've never had a problem with stability -- except in very windy conditions that no metal camera could handle any better.
Vaughan
31-Jul-2023, 17:31
Thanks. How do you tell the difference between the various Wista 45 models? From pictures in eBay listings, it looks like they all just say “Wista 45” in front of the front standard.
What’re the differences between an SP and a VX, for example? Anything functional?
Wista's metal field cameras – there are five models – all use the same basic body and feature a rotating back, base tilt and swing on the rear, axis tilt, rise and shift on the front, and triple focus extension. All I have seen have a fresnel lens incorporated into the ground glass. Bellows is about 300mm maximum, with minimum short enough for 90mm lenses on flat boards and 65mm lenses on recessed boards, but movement is physically restricted by the body or bellows compression.
The first versions – 45N and 45D – were finished in a (now retro IMHO) brown wood-grain vinyl and tan/gold paint. (The brown vinyl shrinks and the panel edges are usually lifted which looks bad; removing the panels, flattening them with heat and re-gluing them is messy but not too difficult.) At some time during production they were changed to black vinyl and black paint. Importantly, on both colour versions the front standard is finished in SILVER paint, has axis tilt, rise and shift but NO swing. The 45D is the deluxe version with a second set of knobs on the side for "micro" adjustment of rear swing, an easily removable back, and interchangeable bellows (bag bellows, long bellows and extension rails were available). The 45D also has a geared rise on the front standard, the 45N is manual (ie, lift it with your finger). Note that the basic 45N also has interchangeable backs but the mounting method is different, the backs are not interchangeable between the N and D, and the bellows are glued to the rear of the N.
For the second versions, the 45N and 45D models were renamed 45VX and 45SP respectively. These are finished in black-on-black and importantly have a BLACK painted front standard which now features swing (in addition to rise and shift). Note that the black standard is the best way to distinguish the 45VX and 45SP from the black finished 45N and 45D: only the black front standard has swing.
The fifth model is the 45RF which is the 45VX with a rangefinder. No lens cams are necessary, the rangefinder has settings for 135mm, 150mm and 180mm lenses.
I have a 45N and a 45D with bag bellows. Both are equally fine cameras, compact and solid. IMHO the micro swing of the 45D (and by extension the 45SP) is unnecessary, and the bag bellows is not particularly useful. Note that both 45N and 45D cameras lack front swing, but that's not a frequently used movement in landscape photography so can probably be lived without. I bought both as restoration projects because they were cheap, but if I was buying again I'd opt for a 45VX with the front swing.
Note that a lot of Wista 45 cameras on eBay have roll film backs. The 4x5 backs by themselves don't come up often.
B.S.Kumar
31-Jul-2023, 17:56
As Oren pointed out above, I explained the differences among the various Wista metal field cameras.
The Toyo cameras also have minor differences.
Toyo 45A: This is the "standard" camera, with rotating Graflok back, front rise/fall, tilt & shift and rear tilt and swing movements. It was also unofficially called the AR (for rotating back).
Toyo 45A with reversible back: The only difference is that the back does not rotate, and must be removed from the body to change orientation.
Toyo 45AII: This is the latest version, with metal rubber covered knobs and polymer coated bed and tracks.
Toyo 45AIIL: This version accepts Linhof Technika style lens boards natively.
Toyo 45AX: This is the same as the AII, except that the back is reversible.
Kumar
I have a Toyo 45A(R) that I hike with for landscape and low-movement architectural photos (no overnight backpacking). I like the simplicity and sturdiness of it, using 65mm-210mm lenses. If I had to do it again, I'd go for one without the revolving back in favor of the reversing one for less bulk. Even with the rotating back, it's still much more compact than a Sinar F.
Joseph Kashi
1-Aug-2023, 00:27
Yes, I agree, KEH is wonderful, but how about the camera? Is it wonderful too?
Yes, the Canhams are very very good and light for what you get, including longer bellows. However, unlike the Technika, there's not a rangefinder option for handheld use.
I have a new Canham MQC57 5x7 field camera, plus the optional 4x5 reducing back. The 5x7 Canham itself is lighter than some of the 4x5 metal field cameras thatyou mention. However, the overall weight of any large format outfit that includes more than one or two lenses and minimal accessories and tripod is going to be significant, more so when one is no longer 35.
... If I had to do it again, I'd go for one without the revolving back in favor of the reversing one for less bulk.
Is the fixed back a different size than the rotating back? In particular, is the ground glass closer to the lens? I believe there is a weight difference.
B.S.Kumar
1-Aug-2023, 04:08
Is the fixed back a different size than the rotating back? In particular, is the ground glass closer to the lens? I believe there is a weight difference.
Here are photos of the Toyo 45A camera with the reversible back that I sold a couple of months ago:
https://i.postimg.cc/0jN0Z58v/Toyo45-ACamera-02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/0QPfMdFb/Toyo45-ACamera-04.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Wbh7k4W6/Toyo45-ACamera-05.jpg
The reversible back does away with the rotating mechanism, which makes it thinner and lighter than the rotating back. The focusing screen is in exactly the same place on both versions.
Kumar
AJ Edmondson
1-Aug-2023, 05:01
The Wista 45SP has worked really well for me for quite a few years. Paired with a Fujinon 135 W in Seiko shutter I seldom have need of any other setup but I am in the southeast where normally we need to "open up" the view rather than compress it as is common on the west coast side! Regrettably I am coming to the realization that, at 80, it is time to dispose of my gear and acknowledge that "those days" are gone for good. I think that the SP "micro-swings" is pretty much unnecessary but it isn't really obtrusive so it doesn't bother me. If you are willing to limit focal length to 90 to 240mm the SP or VX isn't a bad choice!
Joel
Since the three cameras under consideration are in the 5-7lbs range, what would you suggest in the 3-4lbs range? I started out with a wooden Wista DX at 4lbs, but moved to a Linhof TK45 at 6.6lbs. Stability and precision require a little extra weight but I found it a worthwhile trade-off.
It seems that the OP might be relatively new to LF and I was suggesting that in a field camera that has to be carried any distance he/she should expand their thinking beyond the heavy metal cameras. There's always a tradeoff, and for my uses much prefer a light weight camera vs. an overweight and over-accesorized beast.
Since the three cameras under consideration are in the 5-7lbs range, what would you suggest in the 3-4lbs range? I started out with a wooden Wista DX at 4lbs, but moved to a Linhof TK45 at 6.6lbs. Stability and precision require a little extra weight but I found it a worthwhile trade-off.
I would suggest that for a field camera that must be carried far from the car, ditch the idea of a heavy metal camera and look at something like a Tachihara, Wista wood, or even an Intrepid (a new Intrepid is likely less expensive than a used overweight metal camera).
The Wista 45SP has worked really well for me for quite a few years. Paired with a Fujinon 135 W in Seiko shutter I seldom have need of any other setup but I am in the southeast where normally we need to "open up" the view rather than compress it as is common on the west coast side! Regrettably I am coming to the realization that, at 80, it is time to dispose of my gear and acknowledge that "those days" are gone for good. I think that the SP "micro-swings" is pretty much unnecessary but it isn't really obtrusive so it doesn't bother me. If you are willing to limit focal length to 90 to 240mm the SP or VX isn't a bad choice!
Joel
I just turned 80 this month and live in the SE also. Don't give up. - Just don't go so far from the car.
BTW, I have used the rangefinder on my Busch Pressman on occasion for some subjects.
Sal Santamaura
1-Aug-2023, 08:43
I just turned 80 this month...
That would be today. Happy birthday!
linhofbiker
1-Aug-2023, 10:18
I just turned 80 this month and live in the SE also. Don't give up. - Just don't go so far from the car.
BTW, I have used the rangefinder on my Busch Pressman on occasion for some subjects.
Congratulations. I turned 79 yesterday and like metal field cameras but have forsaken 4x5 for 5x7 and 4x10 that can share lenses in the field, but have their own tripods.
241080
241081
We all have our limits -- no matter what age. For some of us, lugging a three pound 4x5 to the end of a football field is quite an accomplishment, while for others a 20 pound 8x10 up a 14er is a piece of cake.
Three cheers to all of you for whatever you are able to do -- in whatever way that might be, be it wood or metal or plastic or.........
20 pound 8x10 up a 14er is a piece of cake.
As the original poster I should say that I fit in the category above.
Mark Sampson
1-Aug-2023, 16:04
Fungus, the Sinar F is not really that heavy- but it's rather bulky. You can reduce that bulk, and make it more packable. Just swap out the "F" rail clamp for one for a Sinar Norma, which will make things much more compact. And you can get an adapter lensboard that takes Technika-style lensboards, a common setup that allows you to mount your lenses on those smaller boards. A Sinar is a lovely camera to actually use, and can work very well in the field with those simple mods.
Jeff Keller
2-Aug-2023, 08:40
The metal standards flex more than many other metal cameras if you grab them and push/pull. I haven't had any problem with them moving out of position nor any problem with wind. I understand that the DLC was redesigned to become the DLC-2 because the locking mechanism was too often over-tightened.
I also picked up a wooden Canham 8x10. The previous owner apparently had problems with the rear standard. He had put extra screws into it and epoxied it turning it into a fixed standard. Keith Canham put it back into essentially like new condition for, I believe, less than $200. My 8x10 does have noticeably more flex than either my DLC45 or MQC57. The swing mechanism on the rear standard seems to be the weak point on the wooden 8x10.
My experience has been that the MQC57 doesn't have any problems with rigidity, even though you can flex the standards. Because of the smaller size, I believe the DLC would be even better (I use my MQ57 more than my DLC45, so I can't say I've seen every possible weakness in the DLC). If you were working in a studio pushing film holders quickly in and out, you might be more comfortable with a heavy Sinar or Linhof. If you are carrying it very far and making careful use of the film you are carrying, I don't see any advantage in using a heavier camera. The design of the metal Canham cameras makes them very easy to use for a wide range of focal-length lenses without swapping out the bellow or adding extension rails.
How is the rigidity of the Canham? It looks like lots of effort went into shaving as much metal as possible off the standards to save weight. For example, does the rear standard hold its position when inserting a film holder? Any other caveats to be aware of?
At this point, I’ll probably go with either a Canham DLC-2 or a Toyo 45 (either an AX or AII). The Toyo, although heavier than the Canham, seems to be more rigid from everything I’ve read, and even though it doesn’t allow as much movements, what it does have is probably adequate for landscape photography.
Darr
I read most of your extensive 'Fine Print'
I also like your images
Impressive!
YOUR text is also copyright
The fine print...
Randy,
I appreciate your kindness.
Your creativity is unique!
Best to you,
Darr
Darr,
"I always appreciate the kindness of strangers."
Tennessee Ernie Ford, seen many stage productions
Our Shakespeare
Bless us all
Randy,
I appreciate your kindness.
Your creativity is unique!
Best to you,
Darr
Thanks for all the advice, everyone.
Rather than get something expensive now and find out I’m not really into it, I decided to take the low road and bought a Cambo SC-2 for $100. It’s in remarkable shape for that price with only a few scuffs and everything works smoothly. After a few months I’ll consider upgrading to something better.
Dan Fromm
4-Aug-2023, 18:30
Congratulations on not succumbing to the desire to have the most best right now. Your Cambo will teach you about what makes best sense for you. And, $100 is a low price. You'll probably get your money back, plus some, when you decide what would suit you better.
Drew Wiley
5-Aug-2023, 12:00
Cheaper equipment is sometimes nice to own in parallel, just in case you want to go shooting in some area with higher risk of theft, or to leave behind in a car when out scouting with smaller format gear.
Merg Ross
5-Aug-2023, 16:35
Thanks for all the advice, everyone.
Rather than get something expensive now and find out I’m not really into it, I decided to take the low road and bought a Cambo SC-2 for $100. It’s in remarkable shape for that price with only a few scuffs and everything works smoothly. After a few months I’ll consider upgrading to something better.
That's an excellent camera at a very fair price. Where did you find it? I recently donated mine to a good cause here in Oakland after years of excellent service; I think you will enjoy using the SC-2.
As to your original query, I moved to the Toyo AX which is also a fine camera for your consideration.
Joseph Kashi
6-Aug-2023, 17:25
The Canham MQC57 is apparently discontinued and no longer available new.
Rod Klukas
9-Aug-2023, 18:35
The Toyo 45A has the issue that if you want to swing you have to loosen the rail clamp and so it moves focus when you do that. It also has a tendency to lose the rail knobs on the bottom if you are not careful. Expensive and hard to find.
The Horseman 45FA on the rear end of the top rail has 2 small ears about 5/8" in length. If when folding you do not put the rails in the correct position and start to fold it, you can bend thse ears, and they are a bear to try to realign. And the realign only works once or twice, as metal fatigue sets in, and the ears stretch will no longer go back in place. Lens boards are quite small on the Horseman, meaning no #3 and even some #1 shuttered lenses will not mount.
Last issue for all three is below 90mm is almost a no go, if you want movements. I had the best one, lighter than the Technika, and more geared movements, the Wista 45SP. I used it to shoot forest fires for my MFA. Worked well, except for wide angle lenses.
Hope this provides guidance.
Rod
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