Sinar F question

[ndlaw2009]

Hello all, I am new to the forum, and *brand new* to large format photography! My experience with film photography has been limited to medium-format Hasselblad work.

A family friend is letting me explore the world of large format photography with one of her late husband's cameras -- a Sinar F with a pair of lenses. I have read a lot about the operation of the camera and finally took possession of the camera yesterday evening. It appears this camera has been used very little, if at all. Unfortunately, as I was removing it from the carrying case, I must have looked at the front standard wrong, because the rail clamp snapped right off. I have since read that it is not uncommon for this to happen as a result of the clamp being overtightened.

I have looked online (ebay, etc) to find a replacement front multipurpose standard and have found a couple. My question: Is the camera still operable while it has the broken front rail clamp? I am not going to be hiking with the camera nor do I anticipate doing anything crazy with it. The entire body still seems "solid" and the tilt, shift, and swing movements all seem to work just fine. I just wanted to make sure it is "safe" to use with teh current broken clamp while I obtain a replacement front standard.

Thanks in advance for the information!

[Joshua Dunn]

Can you post a photo of the damage to the front standard?

-Joshua

[ndlaw2009]

Of course! Photo attached. It is the bottom of the front standard where the clamp "connects" over. In the photo I am holding the little plastic piece that snapped off.240931

[Joshua Dunn]

Thanks for the clarification. So to answer your original question, you could probably could use it if you are very careful and keep the rail completely level you could probably use it. The reason you need the rail level is so gravity does not make it slide backwards or forwards while you are working. The problem is it may not be square to the rear standard without being clamped down. It also has the potential to move while you take the photo itself, so you will need to be very careful when you actually trip the shutter.

If you are new to large format there are already a lot of things that will learning when you when trying to make a photograph. Fighting with broken equipment shouldn't be one of them. I would recommend replacing it before you start. Don't spend too much money. Keep in mind that the last version of the Sinar F series, the F2 can often be bought as a complete camera for less than $400 (often $300) and is a far better camera. So if you can find a replacement front standard on the cheap, do so. Otherwise I would buy a used F or F2. That way all of the accessories you have (lens boards etc) will still work with what you have. A quick search on keh.com lists a Sinar F for under $200 and an F2 for under $300.

Hope this helps.

-Joshua

[Drew Wiley]

If you are going to spend money, might as well find the front standard to the F2 version, rather than another old F+ one, or even a complete F2 camera. Buying full used cameras is often cheaper than purchasing just a front standard by itself. The money won't be wasted because Sinar is a component system. Extra rail sections from one camera can become linked together to make a longer rail for longer focal length lenses, a second bellows can be turned into an excellent compendium lens shade using a little set of clips and a rod they offer, and so forth. These are wonderful cameras, and it had the most extensive system of components, which are still abundant on the used market.

[sharktooth]

I had a look at my F to see what you were talking about. It looks like the lip on the standard that hooks the bottom clamp rod has broken off. I tried this as an experiment, and it seems to work just dandy.

Be Forwarned that this method requires a "Complete Loss of Dignity", but that never stopped a Sinar blasphemer such as moi.

All you need is a long zip tie to hook around the top of the standard, and also onto the bottom clamp rod. Cinch it up as tight as you can, and that should still leave it loose enough so that you can still move the standard on the rail. Further tightening with the bottom clamp knob works like it normally does to lock the standard down. If you have a black zip tie, and cut off the extra bit, then it will hardly be noticeable.

240951

240950

Good luck! Shame is for sissies.

[Drew Wiley]

Those F+ front standards were really just an intermediate bellows standard deployed at the front end for sake of a more affordable entry level camera model. It worked, but often needed replacement over the long haul.

[ndlaw2009]

Thank you all for the help! sharktooth, I like your solution in the shorterm. In the long term, I do like Joshua's idea of getting an F2 off of KEH. if nothing else, it will let me have spare parts! Is the front standard on an F2 able to be used with an F1 rear standard/lens board/bellows/etc.?

[Joshua Dunn]

Yes.

-Joshua

[sharktooth]

You can also use any F series rear standard as a front standard. The only issue is that the focus knob and the rise/fall lock knob will be on the opposite side when used on the front. This is hardly an issue, unless you're disabled with one hand. Since your current F doesn't even have focus capability on the front, this would be a performance benefit.

[Scott Davis]

The awesome thing about Sinar stuff is that it is 100% forward/backward compatible across their entire system- you can even mix and match Sinar Norma gear with Sinar P series parts.

[Daniel Unkefer]

An example.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52217232332_73e1e3945f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nyfXXb)SONY DSC (https://flic.kr/p/2nyfXXb) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I built this new to me 8x10 Norma (my second one) which I configured from pieces I recently acquired. An F Front Standard, and a Norma 8x10 Rear Standard. A great location combination. I got this idea when my Wife and I went to the Wexner Center at O.S.U. and see Annie Leibovitz's photos on exhibition. This camera was shown in a photo Annie snapped was a wall-sized B&W, of Richard Avedon's equipment closet. I thought it rather strange at the time, an F attached to a Norma. I think it will make a very good field camera. Shown with the 360mm Schneider Symmar in Norma Iris mount, and the Norma Shutter. So a 60's era speedy location camera. I've tested the camera in the studio and it's a winner.

[Drew Wiley]

That's an intermediate bellows standard on the front, which was indeed used as the front standard on the entry level F+ 4x5. But an F2 front standard would be more secure, last longer, and have more rise, at nearly the same weight. But do you really want you're girlfriend Norma to have a cheap facelift?

[ndlaw2009]

Thank you, again, for all your advice! The zip tie solution has worked, and I will use that in the short term.

Here is another question -- for "field work that will require hiking" I have acquired a Tachihara 4x5 in excellent shape. I am pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I wanted to confirm: Will the lenses from the Sinar work with the Tachihara if I mount them on an appropriate size board? I have the necessary spanner wrench for removing them. The lenses are:

(1) Caltar II-N 6.8/90mm on a Copal 0 shutter.
(2) Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar-S Multicoated 5.6/210mm on a Copal 1 shutter

Over the past two days, I have read an early edition of a book by Leslie Stroebel called "View Camera Technique" and I am excited to get out and experiment with these cameras. I suspect of trial and error/mistakes which, given the cost of film, won't be cheap, but thats part of the fun!

[Daniel Unkefer]

That's an intermediate bellows standard on the front, which was indeed used as the front standard on the entry level F+ 4x5. But an F2 front standard would be more secure, last longer, and have more rise, at nearly the same weight. But do you really want you're girlfriend Norma to have a cheap facelift?

I put a thick soft pillow on my shoulder, and on goes the tripod mounted 8x10 Norma with lens. I have hiked extensively this way in Colorado, and on miles long trails in Ohio. When I get to where I am going, I'm glad it's with me. Also I am interested in WHY Avedon would leave such a camera set up in his equipment locker? Surely there was a good reason for him to do so, it seems he made this choice. I have plenty of Normas all sizes, and I leave this one set up. With a bag of holders (lots of weight) this might be OK for me. And I have the extra parts around. If I change my mind I'll use it to hold bellows together. Works fine for that too :)

[drew.saunders]

Thank you, again, for all your advice! The zip tie solution has worked, and I will use that in the short term.

Here is another question -- for "field work that will require hiking" I have acquired a Tachihara 4x5 in excellent shape. I am pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I wanted to confirm: Will the lenses from the Sinar work with the Tachihara if I mount them on an appropriate size board? I have the necessary spanner wrench for removing them. The lenses are:

(1) Caltar II-N 6.8/90mm on a Copal 0 shutter.
(2) Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar-S Multicoated 5.6/210mm on a Copal 1 shutter

Over the past two days, I have read an early edition of a book by Leslie Stroebel called "View Camera Technique" and I am excited to get out and experiment with these cameras. I suspect of trial and error/mistakes which, given the cost of film, won't be cheap, but thats part of the fun!

The Tachihara uses the extremely common Linhof Technika sized 96x99mm lensboard. It's probably the most commonly used lensboard in LF, with the Sinar size the 2nd most common. There are lots of Technika to Sinar adaptors out there from many manufacturers, easily found from eBay, KEH, etc.. You could, in theory, just mount all of your small to medium lenses on the Technika sized lensboards and leave the adaptor on the Sinar, only mounting the largest lenses to native Sinar lensboards.

That Schneider is a large-ish lens. It'll work on the Tachihara, but if you like that focal length and want a more portable lens, the 200mm f/8 Nikkor-M is a popular very tiny lens for field work.