Opinions of 4x5 Developing Reels

[Fungus]

I'm just getting back into 4x5 after twenty years. I sold all my gear long ago and am starting from scratch.

I think the best option for me is a reel and tank system to develop 4x5 BW in small batches (I average 6-8 sheets per outing). The two reels I'm looking at are the MOD54 (for the Paterson tank system) and the Jobo 2509n reel in a 2500 series tank.

My question is which one of these is easiest to load in the dark?

(While I'd prefer a better option, like a Jobo 3010, that's out of my price range at the moment after buying a camera, lenses, etc. Perhaps I can consider it in a few months.)

[ethics_gradient]

I used the Mod reels when I started LF - I only had issues a handful of times (probably my fault being overly rough when agitating) but have read mixed results from others.

I bought a Stearman Press when I got back into 4x5 a year or two ago which only does 4 sheets at a time (so may not appeal to you) but find it easy to load and pretty foolproof. The smaller volume of chemistry required is also nice.

[darr]

I dropped using the Jobo 2509n years ago as it was difficult even with the load assist tool.

I have been using the MOD54 for many years, and it is not difficult, but there is a learning curve; make sure you load your film with the notch in the top LEFT position, or your film will not process correctly.
Another option when using a Paterson Tank is a B's 4x5 Developing Reel (https://www.bounetphoto.com/bounet-shop/bs-4x5-developing-reel). I just received one and have not put it through its paces yet, but I think it might be easier to load than the MOD54.
Both of these reels will develop 6-4x5 films in one tank.

There are other options, but I stopped looking after the MOD54 met my needs.
I travel with 4x5 Triple Sleeves (https://www.stonephotogear.com/filmstorage/4x5triplesleeve) (3x2=6), so I like having a 6-sheet developing tank.

[Greg]

(While I'd prefer a better option, like a Jobo 3010, that's out of my price range at the moment after buying a camera, lenses, etc. Perhaps I can consider it in a few months.)

Yes the 3010 goes for around $600.00 new. Keep your eye out for a used one. Probably 4-5 years ago I found one up for auction (at a buy it now price) for about 25% of that price. Described as used but when I got it I really think that it was never used. I've seen some JOBO drums that were unlabeled go for bargain prices... bought one that takes two 11x14s from an American seller/dealer. Side by side with an OEM JOBO, I can see absolutely no difference.

[darr]

Yes the 3010 goes for around $600.00 new. Keep your eye out for a used one. Probably 4-5 years ago I found one up for auction (at a buy it now price) for about 25% of that price. Described as used but when I got it I really think that it was never used. I've seen some JOBO drums that were unlabeled go for bargain prices... bought one that takes two 11x14s from an American seller/dealer. Side by side with an OEM JOBO, I can see absolutely no difference.

Last year I bought a 3010 in like-new condition from Camera West. The only problem, I prefer semi-stand processing now.
I never used it and even bought a very good condition used Unicolor Uniroller for it.
One of these days, I will put it up for sale because I found a sweet spot in semi-stand development.

So if you think you may be inclined to try stand or semi-stand development, sadly, the 3010 is not an option.

[Michael R]

B’s is a much better device than the MOD54.

[Ulophot]

I have the 4323 tank from decades ago and the 2 reels that came with it. For larger batches (up to 12 4x5 )I like it very much; I use it with an old Beseler color print drum base. The top is a bit of a chore to screw on fully, maybe just my particular tank.

I also use the Stearman 445. Following Tim's agitation directions to the proverbial letter resolved some uneven development I was getting with slower end-over end routine. It's quick and economical for loads form 1 to 4 sheets. If using 1 or 2, face it/them to the tank's outer walls.

[Alan9940]

Tim just released the SP-645 which does six sheets in one run. That may fit your needs perfectly.

[Joseph Kashi]

I’ve been using the 5x7 BW King 6-sheet stainless reels and tanks out of China. These will work with both 4x5 and 5x7 sheets when loaded using the 5 “ edge. These handle just like big 120 SS reels and tanks and are effective. I bought my two sets new on EBay but they no longer seem to be offered for sale as new units.

[Fungus]

Yes the 3010 goes for around $600.00 new. Keep your eye out for a used one. Probably 4-5 years ago I found one up for auction (at a buy it now price) for about 25% of that price. Described as used but when I got it I really think that it was never used. I've seen some JOBO drums that were unlabeled go for bargain prices... bought one that takes two 11x14s from an American seller/dealer. Side by side with an OEM JOBO, I can see absolutely no difference.

I’ll keep my eyes open for a used 3010. There’s only one used one up on eBay at the moment and the guy wants $500–I’d rather buy new than pay that.

[Fungus]

I’ve been using the 5x7 BW King 6-sheet stainless reels and tanks out of China. These will work with both 4x5 and 5x7 sheets when loaded using the 5 “ edge. These handle just like big 120 SS reels and tanks and are effective. I bought my two sets new on EBay but they no longer seem to be offered for sale as new units.

I found their site, and the reels look very “industrial”. As you mention, they don’t seem to sell on eBay and there’s no links to dealers on their site. If anyone has links to a dealer, please post them here.

[Fungus]

B’s is a much better device than the MOD54.

Thanks. I found some posts about the B’s and some people have mentioned issues with the reel: the rough 3D printed plastic can scratch negatives and the close contact with the back of negatives can prevent complete removal of the anti-halation layer on films that have it.

Why do you think it’s better than the MOD54?

[nitroplait]

Thanks. I found some posts about the B’s and some people have mentioned issues with the reel: the rough 3D printed plastic can scratch negatives and the close contact with the back of negatives can prevent complete removal of the anti-halation layer on films that have it.

Why do you think it’s better than the MOD54?

It’s just a matter of knowing your tool.
The MOD54 has served me well after I adjusted my agitation/inversion method.
Since I get as good results as I could wish for and with little effort , someone would have a hard time convincing me that another system is better.

[Tin Can]

I have most of the NEW reels

I really prefer NOT bending film into tubes

I want flat film to stay flat

[Vaughan]

I’ve been using the 5x7 BW King 6-sheet stainless reels and tanks out of China. ... I bought my two sets new on EBay but they no longer seem to be offered for sale as new units.

I purchased a BW King 5x7 tank a year or two ago, and within a few weeks of purchase contacted them about buying the 4x5 version. The reply I received (English is not their first language, they used Google translate) suggested that the tanks were a limited production run and are now out of stock, and not being produced again.

[Alan9940]

Thanks. I found some posts about the B’s and some people have mentioned issues with the reel: the rough 3D printed plastic can scratch negatives and the close contact with the back of negatives can prevent complete removal of the anti-halation layer on films that have it.


I have a v1 B's 4x5 reel and the current v2. The latter has some design changes to help mitigate the issue with anti-halation removal, but with some films it remains. That said, however, a quick run through hypo clear before a good wash will totallly eliminate any residual dye. I've never had an issue with scratched film, but I suspect arriving at a smooth agitation regiment might have something to do with it.

[Michael R]

Don't get me wrong, the B's isn't ideal, just the best of the tank inserts. Most uniform development, less fiddly regarding agitation with respect to sheets coming loose, gouges etc.


Thanks. I found some posts about the B’s and some people have mentioned issues with the reel: the rough 3D printed plastic can scratch negatives and the close contact with the back of negatives can prevent complete removal of the anti-halation layer on films that have it.

Why do you think it’s better than the MOD54?

[Mark Sampson]

For several years, when I lacked a darkroom, I used one of the old Nikor stainless tanks with its adjustable reel. They come up for sale occasionally, but I can't recommend them. Despite taking the utmost care with that setup, I ruined many negatives. Happily I was able to build a darkroom in the house and have gone back to tray processing.

[darr]

Don't get me wrong, the B's isn't ideal, just the best of the tank inserts. Most uniform development, less fiddly regarding agitation with respect to sheets coming loose, gouges etc.

I agree with Michael's observation about the MOD54 - I've also had issues with sheets coming loose.
With some persistence, I was able to develop a better technique for using it.

I've found that gentle agitations help prevent sheets from slipping off the reel, which caused uneven development on the sides and corners of a couple of sheets from one side of the reel.
It happened twice that I can remember, and not as of late, knock on wood.
It can be alarming to hear and feel something come loose while agitating the reel, and I was fortunate it did not ruin entire sheets.

Overall, there is definitely a learning curve with the MOD54, but it's worth it because I am able to get great results.
Just make sure you load the film notch in the top LEFT corner and agitate GENTLY.

I am looking forward to giving the B's Reel a try very soon.
If it was not for workers at my home fixing and surfacing the driveway, I'd be out shooting.

[Fungus]

I have most of the NEW reels

I really prefer NOT bending film into tubes

I want flat film to stay flat

How do you process sheet film, Mr. Can? In trays?

[Fungus]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm going to order a MOD54 and a B's and give them a try.

In the mean time, I'm going to try tray development. I've never developed 4x5 in trays and am curious to see if I can do it successfully. I'll expose some negatives in the back yard that I don't really care about so if I ruin them in processing it won't be anything worthwhile. I do have one question relating to the process: when moving negatives from the developer to the stop or from the stop to the fixer, do you move the negatives one at a time, or do you pick up the whole stack of them and move them as a stack to the next tray?

Also, what's the best size tray for developing 4x5? 5x7 or 8x10?

[Tin Can]

I mostly process 4X5, 5x7, 8x10 in like new KODAK only hangers in tanks with gas burst

2X3 has waffe cans

ULF is trays

Always use 1 size bigger tray one at a time

gently

[Alan9940]

Also, what's the best size tray for developing 4x5? 5x7 or 8x10?

Back when I tray developed, I always used the next size up tray--8x10 tray for 4x5, 12x15 (Paterson) for 8x10.

[Fungus]

Back when I tray developed, I always used the next size up tray--8x10 tray for 4x5

Wouldn't the next tray size up for 4x5 be 5x7?

[Randy]

Wouldn't the next tray size up for 4x5 be 5x7?

I have always done 4X5 and 5X7 in 8X10 trays. I have done 8X10 in 11X14 trays.

[Alan9940]

Wouldn't the next tray size up for 4x5 be 5x7?

Technically, you're right. Regardless, 8x10 tray for 4x5.

[Fungus]

No one mentioned BTZS tubes. Are they passé these days? Are they worth trying? I can't seem to find anyone selling new ones--every site says some variant of "SOLD OUT".

[darr]

No one mentioned BTZS tubes. Are they passé these days? Are they worth trying? I can't seem to find anyone selling new ones--every site says some variant of "SOLD OUT".

Steve Sherman makes, sells, and instructs how you can make something similar for his Extreme Minimal Process method.
I do not use them, but I have found his videos interesting.
The semi-stand development method I use is derived from his technique.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIyS_YwKDU&ab_channel=SteveSherman%27sPowerofProcess

[Michael R]

I didn't like the results but some people like using them. The solution volumes are more economical than most inversion systems. If you want to try them you're probably best off making a few yourself using stuff like black PVC tubing or whatever. I think most people take that DIY approach these days.


No one mentioned BTZS tubes. Are they passé these days? Are they worth trying? I can't seem to find anyone selling new ones--every site says some variant of "SOLD OUT".

[Randy]

No one mentioned BTZS tubes. Are they passé these days? Are they worth trying? I can't seem to find anyone selling new ones--every site says some variant of "SOLD OUT".

I made some myself many years ago - just cut some PVC tubing, curled the film and slid it in then set all the tubes in a tray of developer and rolled them until time was up. I think I tried it once and didn't like the mess and the difficulty of removing the sheets after processing. I recently watched an instructional video on using them - that video sold me on the Stearman Press SP-445 :)

[ASA1000]

If you're just starting back at it, why not try develop and inspect them with a green light as you go?

[Ian David]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm going to order a MOD54 and a B's and give them a try.

In the mean time, I'm going to try tray development. I've never developed 4x5 in trays and am curious to see if I can do it successfully. I'll expose some negatives in the back yard that I don't really care about so if I ruin them in processing it won't be anything worthwhile. I do have one question relating to the process: when moving negatives from the developer to the stop or from the stop to the fixer, do you move the negatives one at a time, or do you pick up the whole stack of them and move them as a stack to the next tray?

Also, what's the best size tray for developing 4x5? 5x7 or 8x10?

If you want to tray develop, and are happy to process only a small number of sheets (eg 4) at a time, I recommend buying/making a slosher tray. That is quite a nice way to keep the sheets separated throughout, and the slosher tray can be lifted from one process tray to the next without handling the wet film at any stage.

[Tin Can]

I have tried most cans, tubes except JOBO

I refuse to buy and use very expensive German plastic

I cannot shuffle either, bent mechanic fingers

I did Ziploc but hate the wasted bags, twice

I often do one film in 3 trays if it is very rare very old plates or film

I prefer Dip and Dunk on KODAK film/plate holders

or GAS Burst on Hangers

We have a Canadian member who uses one tray for ULF

He teaches Photography

Andy on you tube and here

[tundra]

I mostly process 4X5, 5x7, 8x10 in like new KODAK only hangers in tanks with gas burst

2X3 has waffe cans

ULF is trays

Always use 1 size bigger tray one at a time

gently


I also process all sheet films in open tanks, though I manually agitate (wearing skin and eye protection). For conventional development, I use the Kodak framed hangers. For (semi)stand and EMA, I use Kodak pinch hangers to minimize any contact between hanger and film.

I do this regardless of developer, other than PMK which cannot be used for extended development, so I use only the framed hangers there.