Anyone using a Fujinon A 360mm f/10 for ULF?

[Sheldon Nalos]

Is anyone out there using a Fujinon A 360mm f/10 lens to shoot ULF?

I found a good deal one today and bought it on a whim, and from what I can see it's quite a rarity. The specs say a 504mm image circle, which would make it good for up to 11x14 or 7x17. It's also really small, Copal 1 shutter, 58mm front element, 475g. Kerry Thalmann seems to like it, he puts it on his "Future Classics" list.

I only shoot 4x5, and this lens may be a little longer than what I need for my style of shooting. Can anyone comment on how this lens performs on ULF, if I were to get into that down the road? I'm thinking about maybe keeping it, but I might sell and buy a Nikkor 90mm f/8 instead.

Thanks!

[steve simmons]

I do think you got a gem. I have used the 240A on 4x5/5x7/8x10 and love it. I am half looking for the 300A.

steve simmons

[Juergen Sattler]

Steve, I think Kerry Thalman is selling a 300A over on APUG in the classifieds - good luck.

[Sheldon Nalos]

I also noticed that there's a Fujinon A 600mm for sale on Ebay, going for $2,500. That's supposed to be able to cover 20x24. Wow!

[Ted Harris]

It's absolutely a gem. I use both the 240 A and the 300 A. The 300 A is one of my most frequently used lenses. If I had a 360 it would be in that category as well. Hold on to it and enjoy using it.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I have had the pleasure of using a 360/9 Fujinon-A. They are delightful lenses; small, sharp, with very nice color rendition. It feels much like the G-Claron, if you like them, but with a bit less coverage.

That said, the coverage is a bit tight for 11x14 and larger. There are better 360mm lenses for these formats.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Sheldon,

As you are aware, you are now the proud owner of a very desirable lens. The 360mm Fujinon A is small enough and light enough to make a great long lens on 4x5 or 5x7. It's the smallest, lightest multicoated 360mm lens ever made, and the only 360mm non-telephoto ever sold in a No. 1 shutter. It's physically smaller and weighs about the same as (or a little less than) the typical 210mm f5.6 plasmat. Since it only requires a little over 14" to focus at infinity, it is the longest non-telephoto usable on many 4x5 cameras, such as the Linhof Technika series that have a maximum bellows extension of about 16".

It also makes a great "normal" lens to use with an 8x10 field camera. In addition to 4x5, I've also used my 360mm Fujinon A on 5x7, 4x10 and 8x10.

I haven't tried it on 7x17 (my camera isn't finished yet), but in discussions I've had with others, it apparently doesn't cover as much as some other 355mm/360mm lenses (like the 355mm G Claron and the 355mm/360mm Convertible Symmar). Just how much it covers and how sharp the corners are on 7x17 seems to be a function of how far you are willing to stop down. Of course, it is also MUCH smaller and ligther than these other 355/360mm lenses. I have a late (ca. 1972) 355mm f6.8 Convertible Symmar in a Copal No. 3 shutter. It's a huge, heavy lens. Next to it, the 360mm Fujinon A looks absolutely tiny. So, there are definitely some lenses in this focal length range that cover more than the 360mm Fujinon A, but they are generally much bigger and heavier (all in No. 3, or larger, shutters).

Once I get my 7x17 up and running, I plan to test the 360mm Fujinon A to see just how usable it is on this format. If coverage it tight, I'll keep the massive 355mm Symmar to use close to the vehicle and reserve the 360mm A for hiking.

If you haven't already found it, you can see the official Fujinon specs for the 180mm, 240mm, 300mm and 360mm Fujinon A series here (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/as-sfs.htm)

And yes, back in the 1970s, Fujinon also made a 600mm f11 Fujinon A (840mm IC at f22, 1710g, single coated) and an even more rare 1200mm f24 Fujinon A (1120mm IC at f24, 2600g, single coated). Now we're talking ULTRA large format.

Kerry

[Sal Santamaura]

"And yes, back in the 1970s, Fujinon also made a 600mm f11 Fujinon A (840mm IC at f22, 1710g, single coated) ..."

There's one on eBay right now

Item 7617386186 (http://cgi.ebay.com/FUJINON-A-600mm-f-11-Fuji-ULF-RARE-wisner-lotus-ebony_W0QQitemZ7617386186QQcategoryZ30076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

with no bids yet. Come on ULFers, show the world what you think it's worth. I've no connection with the auction or seller.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Sal - There's one on eBay right now

I saw that one. Fortunately, I already have a 600mm Fujinon C (much smaller - 67mm filters vs. 95mm, lighter - 575g vs. 1710g, and multicoated) that has more than enough coverage (620mm IC) for my biggest format (7x17).

The 600mm Fujinon A would be a real nice lens for anyone shooting 20x24. They are indeed rare. I remember seeing one on eBay five or six years ago that went for around $2200 - $2300. It will be interesting to see how much this one fetches.

Kerry

[Sheldon Nalos]

I'm surprised that the 355mm G-Claron has more coverage than the Fuji 360mm A. The spec's I've run across list a image circle of 444mm at f/22 and infinity for the G-Claron and 504mm for the Fuji. I know that the coverage for the G-Claron improves considerably when stopped down, but I would assume that the Fuji's coverage would as well. Of course, that doesn't take the size or weight of the lens into consideration.

Are there any other modern multicoated lenses out there with an image circle bigger than 504mm? I can't seem to find any in my searching.

[Don Hutton]

Schenider's IC specs are usually quite conservative. A 355mm G Claron covers 12x20 at around f45 (that needs an image circle of 585mm). The usuable image circle of a 305mm G Claron is around 500mm too - I use it on 11x14 with extensive movements. I had a 300mm Fujinon A which I sold becuase it has less image circle than my 305mm G Claron. It actually had mechanical vignetting (the barrel end limited the image circle) which limited the coverage - I suspect that this is the reason the 360mm A has an image circle around 500 and not larger too.

There are quite a few modern multicoated lenses which have more coverage than your Fujinon:

I've used the following on 12x20:
Fujinon 450mm C - Covers 12x20
Nikkor 450mm M - Covers 16x20!
Fujinon 600 C - Covers 20x24
Schneider 210mmXL - Covers 12x20
Cooke XVa in single cell and front front combinations (476mm, 646mm and 368mm) cover 12x20

The Schneider APO Symmar 360 and 480 I own both cover around 500mm but have mechanical vignetting.

Of course, there are those new Schneider XXLs which have huge image circles...

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Sheldon - I'm surprised that the 355mm G-Claron has more coverage than the Fuji 360mm A. The spec's I've run across list a image circle of 444mm at f/22 and infinity for the G-Claron and 504mm for the Fuji.

The manufacturer's specs don't always tell the whole story. It is common knowledge that the 64 degree coverage spec of the G Claron series are extremely conservative. The actual usable coverage is around 80 degrees at f32, perhaps even a little more at f45 or f64.

On the other hand, my experience with the shorter Fujinon A series lenses (I haven't tried pushing the coverage of the 360mm Fujinon A - yet) is that the maximum usable coverage is pretty close to the 70 degree official spec. They do throw a larger circle of illumination, but the sharpness decreases rapidly and dramatically beyond the 70 degree spec. You don't really gain much usable coverage by stopping down.

So, while the specs indicate the 360mm Fujinon A has more coverage, in actual use, the 355mm G Claron has more usable coverage. 7x17 would be the maximum format for the 360mm Fujinon A, but I know several people happily using the 355mm G Claron on 12x20.

Sheldon - Are there any other modern multicoated lenses out there with an image circle bigger than 504mm? I can't seem to find any in my searching.

There aren't a lot, but there are some. Like the 355mm G Claron (single coated), the 450mm Nikkor M (multicoated) is capable of covering a lot more than the manufacturer's spec. It's another lens that many people favor for 12x20 use. The 600mm Fujinon C is another multicoated lens capable of more than covering 12x20 (620mm IC). The 450mm Fujinon C spec (486mm) is a little less than the 360mm A, but it may cover a bit more in actual use. The current 450mm Fujinon CM-W has a published image circle of 520mm.

The current kings of coverage are the Schneider Fine Art XXL (http://www.schneideroptics.com/photography/large_format_lenses/xxl/) series. Both the 550mm and 1100mm Fine Art XXL lenses have image circle specs of 900mm - and they are multicoated.

The 210mm Super Symmar XL has an image circle spec of "only" 500mm, but again is reported to cover much more (up to 12x20 - with the center filter to help even out the illumination). The 480mm APO Symmar L also has an image circle spec of 500mm - as did it's predecessor the 480mm APO Symmar. The 210mm Super Angulon is yet another lens with a 500mm image circle spec. Late samples were multicoated.

There have also been many recent multicoated lenses with rated image circles in the 485mm - 500mm range. These include the 200mm Grandagon-N, the 300mm APO Sironar-W, the 360mm APO Symmar, the 360mm Nikkor-W, the 360mm Fujinon W, the 360mm Fujinon CM-W and the the 800mm APO Tele-Xenar HM. There may be a few more, but that's what I an think of off the top of my head. And that's just recent/current multicoated lenses. If you include single coated "classic" lenses, you open up the field to all the Dagors, long Red Dot Artars, long APO Ronars, APO Germinars, various APO/Proces Nikkors, etc. When it comes right down to it, there is actually an amazing variety of lenses available for ULF photographers.

Kerry

[chris_4622]

It's a horrible lens, you should sell it to me to assuage my envy.

[chris_4622]

Seriously, if you are interested in selling it contact me.

[Sheldon Nalos]

Thanks for the explanation about the G-Claron lenses. I noticed in my response I failed to include the qualifier "up to the 360mm focal length". Once you get to the longer focal lengths, the I knew that the lenses with available coverage are more varied. I do appreciate the info on other available lenses out there, though!

So my understanding is this: If you are keeping the focal lenths limited to 360mm or less, it looks like the Fuji wins on specifications, but in practice the Schneider G-Claron, Super Angulon, or Super Symmar XL may have as much or more coverage due to Schneider's conservative ratings. There's also a fair number of lenses that come close to the 500mm image circle mark.

Either way, it's a great little lens. I ended up selling it to a local buyer, so now it looks like I'm in the market for a Nikkor 90mm. It's hard to see it go, but I wouldn't have used it enough to justify keeping it.

Thanks everyone!

[Sal Santamaura]

The 600mm Fujinon A would be a real nice lens for anyone shooting 20x24. They are indeed rare. I remember seeing one on eBay five or six years ago that went for around $2200 - $2300. It will be interesting to see how much this one fetches.KerryIt ended with one bid. A buyer in China took it for the opening $2,499.