De Smidt Dedustinator 15

[Peter De Smidt]

If you're like me, you've experimented with commercial air cleaners. They are often small and use proprietary filters. They work ok. Well, I'm remodeling, and so in addition to the usual ways to keep dust down, such as taping plastic over openings, using a respirator, a vac with a hepa filter and bag.....I made a multi-room air cleaner.

Introducing the De Smidt Dedustinator 15. Why 15? Because it uses a Wynn Environmental Merv 15 filter designed for woodshop dust collectors. A Catepillar enclosed motor fan is attached to the to filter via clamps, and there's a super thick gasket between the fan and the filter.

It takes about 5 minutes to mount the fan on the filter. It's big. It's stable. At the lower settings it's quiet. At the higher settings, it moves a ton of air. It could be useful overkill in a film loading room, regular darkroom, or scanning room. Total cost was about $400.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/beap2ts9js5zrzu/Dedustinator_15_1.jpg?raw=1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubqgs0ipzvesvnb/Dedustinator_15_2.jpg?raw=1

[Ulophot]

Very impressive, Peter. It could be advertised as a large format dust collector.

[JMO]

Peter, can you provide some URL links to the specific components of your creation (where they could be purchased)? And am I correct in assuming that you use it setting on the shop floor as shown? Or is it ducted to exhaust to a duct leading to the outside? Thanks in advance...

[Leszek Vogt]

Hey Peter, have you looked into these type ?
239386
I'm not remodeling, but am sanding mud in the workshop (no fun) and using commercial dust collector, which I rented. I try to take my time and let the dust settle before I vac the stuff. Indeed, hazmat suit and a good mask....a must. This dust, much like in the a wood shop, it floats in the air for a while....as you well know. No idea how well your unit is doing, but I intend to get Oneida collector (with Hepa) and this type of unit above....covering both angles....but that's forwoodworking mostly. Sure, clean air rules.

[Tin Can]

Good plan

I had a free $1000 4 filter similar

The filters were $800

I replaced them and gave it to daughter for their basement

Wear the correct 3M face filter, they have many

I once converted my garage to spray paint booth

The Cyanide 2 part epoxy paint was very dangerous

A $25 3M mask worked well

[Peter De Smidt]

Filter: https://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking-filters/35c222nano-cartridge-kit/

Fan: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HK8JCZP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I use the collector on the floor as shown, but you could hang it. I'd probably use a more robust filter/fan connection in that case, though.

The unit is just a free-standing air cleaner. It's not ducted anywhere.

It comes apart quickly, if needed, and you can still use the fan as a regular fan.

I'm sure commercial air cleaners can be ok, but this uses a much bigger filter than they tend to use.

Another option is us use an on HVAC furnace blower in place of a fan. That would require a bit more work, as you have to make a plywood mounting plate. That would be easy.

Making a rolling base would be easy, or you could use one for, say, a garbage can.

[Michael R]

Nice, Peter.

I can see the TV/youtube ad...

Manly pickup truck commercial voice: "Big film?"
De Smidt Dedustinator 15 comes crashing down onto heavy duty steel work table
Manly pickup truck commercial voice: "Big air cleaner."


Filter: https://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking-filters/35c222nano-cartridge-kit/

Fan: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09HK8JCZP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I use the collector on the floor as shown, but you could hang it. I'd probably use a more robust filter/fan connection in that case, though.

The unit is just a free-standing air cleaner. It's not ducted anywhere.

It comes apart quickly, if needed, and you can still use the fan as a regular fan.

I'm sure commercial air cleaners can be ok, but this uses a much bigger filter than they tend to use.

Another option is us use an on HVAC furnace blower in place of a fan. That would require a bit more work, as you have to make a plywood mounting plate. That would be easy.

Making a rolling base would be easy, or you could use one for, say, a garbage can.

[David Lindquist]

Nice, Peter.

I can see the TV/youtube ad...

Manly pickup truck commercial voice: "Big film?"
De Smidt Dedustinator 15 comes crashing down onto heavy duty steel work table
Manly pickup truck commercial voice: "Big air cleaner."

Once more I wish there were a "like" button :)

David

[Peter De Smidt]

I can see that the marketing plan is coming together!

Changing topics, the chimney laughed when I hit it with a sledge.....

[Michael Jones]

Great idea Peter; thanks!

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, I borrowed the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOecQZZR5kA&t=12s

[Drew Wiley]

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. But I've sold thousands (probably well over 30,000 in my career) of true CERTIFIED quiet Euro Hepa air systems for all kind of applications (museum shops, hazmat, military, nearly dustless cabinet shops). What you show, Peter & Les, ain't bad except for being somewhat Paleolithic. I even sold near-dustless drywall sanding equipment - mandatory for remodeling in rest homes etc, but otherwise vastly more efficient than the traditional way. I've used all this kind of gear myself, have it in my own shop. The vac units I can take into the darkroom without a worry. I wouldn't dream of doing that with an ordinary woodshop dust collector. We had a truly big one of those in the company mill. The output bin below the hopper was popular with cats, but the cats sure weren't popular with the foreman.

[domaz]

These units would probably do great for improving indoor air quality as Smoke continues to plague American summers especially out West, but now out East too.

[Drew Wiley]

Household air circulating HEPA canisters are sold all over the place. During our horrible fires a few years ago, many stores had stack of them in the hundred dollar apiece category. I use far better air cleaners in the film room portion of my darkroom complex. But those canister-style ones are a lot better than nothing. Even a little desktop air cleaner will remove a lot of dust in a small room.

[Peter De Smidt]

Yep. There's nothing fancy about this. It's just a high quality (and big) filter and a decent fan. I'd be surprised if any commercial unit at it's price point would be as effective. That's especially true if you use a free furnace blower to power the system. I have one, and I'll give it a try, but I'm a bit busy at the moment. I found out today that my kitchen has 4 ceilings, one on top of the other. I wonder what surprises tomorrow will bring.

[reddesert]

There is an interesting DIY air filter called a Corsi-Rosenthal Box that was designed during the height of the Covid pandemic but would also be useful for this moment of wildfire smoke, and general indoor air filtering. Not a professional device, it's made out of a box fan and four air filters the same size as the box fan (and cardboard, tape, etc). I haven't made one, but a friend has and says it can be pretty effective.

https://engineering.ucdavis.edu/news/science-action-how-build-corsi-rosenthal-box

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsi%E2%80%93Rosenthal_Box

[Michael R]

I heard the clean room in your complex is the only true vacuum in the known universe, where even virtual particles are forbidden.


Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. But I've sold thousands (probably well over 30,000 in my career) of true CERTIFIED quiet Euro Hepa air systems for all kind of applications (museum shops, hazmat, military, nearly dustless cabinet shops). What you show, Peter & Les, ain't bad except for being somewhat Paleolithic. I even sold near-dustless drywall sanding equipment - mandatory for remodeling in rest homes etc, but otherwise vastly more efficient than the traditional way. I've used all this kind of gear myself, have it in my own shop. The vac units I can take into the darkroom without a worry. I wouldn't dream of doing that with an ordinary woodshop dust collector. We had a truly big one of those in the company mill. The output bin below the hopper was popular with cats, but the cats sure weren't popular with the foreman.

[faberryman]

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. But I've sold thousands (probably well over 30,000 in my career) of true CERTIFIED quiet Euro Hepa air systems for all kind of applications (museum shops, hazmat, military, nearly dustless cabinet shops). What you show, Peter & Les, ain't bad except for being somewhat Paleolithic. I even sold near-dustless drywall sanding equipment - mandatory for remodeling in rest homes etc, but otherwise vastly more efficient than the traditional way. I've used all this kind of gear myself, have it in my own shop. The vac units I can take into the darkroom without a worry. I wouldn't dream of doing that with an ordinary woodshop dust collector. We had a truly big one of those in the company mill. The output bin below the hopper was popular with cats, but the cats sure weren't popular with the foreman.

I have several HEPA filters strategically located around the house in places where we breath. They are certified, but not CERTIFIED, so while they collect fine particulate matter, they do not stop radioactive particles. They are quiet too, unless you put the fan on high. We just got the basic model, you know, the one without the fragrance sponge. I am not really into aromatherapy. I don't have a HEPA filter in my darkroom complex. I don't have a dust problem there. Oh sure, there may be some theoretical dust, but not any you can actually see. My motto is: If you can't see it, you can't spot it. And don't get me started on cats. From what I have seen, half of the photos taken by Leica photographers are of their cats. I am not even sure you are permitted to have a dog if you are a Leica photographer. That probably is why Elliott Erwitt had to go around taking photographs of other people's dogs. William Wegman shot 20x24 Polaroid so he could take photographs of his own dogs.

[Peter De Smidt]

Regular furnace filters aren't sealed at the edges....

[Ron McElroy]

I found out today that my kitchen has 4 ceilings, one on top of the other. I wonder what surprises tomorrow will bring.

Ah the adventure of old houses. When some ceiling tiles began to sag upstairs this past winter I learned that they had been placed over a plaster ceiling. I always assumed that the tiles were used to save money when the second story was added in 1920. Now I am considering removing all of the them an repairing the plaster.

[Tin Can]

Nobody knows the age of my home

Good high ground, large lot, huge trees

Giant Magnolia

Never had one

I always buy an old home

They speak

Once we rented a very spooky big stone home

One stone “1789” coach house on a river

It had burned completely at least once

And refitted

In heavy rain late at night

A car stopped and yelled the roof is on fire

I caught an eel in the small crick

Not far from the dry canal

[Peter De Smidt]

Yeah, if the plaster is mainly sound, save it!

[domaz]

Nobody knows the age of my home

Good high ground, large lot, huge trees

Giant Magnolia

Never had one

I always buy an old home

They speak

Once we rented a very spooky big stone home

One stone “1789” coach house on a river

It had burned completely at least once

And refitted

In heavy rain late at night

A car stopped and yelled the roof is on fire

I caught an eel in the small crick

Not far from the dry canal

This reminds me of a Gary Snyder poem. The slightly less known beat poet that always seem to incorporate nature in his writings.

[Drew Wiley]

Hi again, Michael. Speaking of dirty air, I hope you're coping with the smoke issues in Canada at the moment. We've sure gone through our own episodes of it here, which could start up again. Extreme filter and water units are simply a matter of ordering them, and being willing to pay the extra price. The kind of hazmat standards I had to supply equip for involved fully sealed certified Hepa systems. Simply putting a Hepa filter into a vac or room air cleaner is not the same things, because particulates have ways of getting around the filter itself. But the same companies offer optional filtration systems which pick up particulates 100 times finer than Hepa standards. So next time you plan to make a true plutonium or radium print instead of using ordinary uranyl nitrate toner, you might want to look into one of those. It would be a shame if all your hand-coated papers got fogged due to yourself glowing in the dark.

Fab - My darkroom complex is in a whole other building off-limits to our cats. But I have to be awfully careful they don't sneak in, and that I shake out my clothes well and give em a good blast from the air compressor. For anything really fussy I have a separate film room with its own enlargers, and swab the whole place down before anything really critical. I have a true cleanroom smock (100% long-fiber lintless dacron), an industrial quality air filter, and triple-filtered compressed air lines incoming. Sometimes white concrete efflorescence rises up through the slab despite it being epoxy sealed. I can take one of my Festool vacs in their and capture it completely. But that kind of very fine powder any kind will go straight through any kind of ordinary shop vac, even with an alleged Hepa filter installed, senign it all through the air creating an even worse mess.

In this area renovators have to deal with all kinds of nasties in old plaster ceiling - sometimes asbestos, often old primer containing mercury, and old lead paint often. Our company partnered with the EPA in legal instructional licensing as well as mandatory equipment needs, and we got around 2200 contractors legally licensed to handle these scenarios. But in the process they learned that working clean is also far more efficient and cost-effective than trying to clean up the messes afterwards; and their new equipment investment paid off almost immediately. Lead, cadmium, and mercury poisoning in the trades (or in the arts) is awfully unpleasant to witness; and it often transferred to their families on their clothing, or through the windows due to an illegal careless sanding operation next door.

[Michael R]

I cannot lie - I don't mind the smokey smell. Actually I also kind of like the smokey smog haze too.


Hi again, Michael. Speaking of dirty air, I hope you're coping with the smoke issues in Canada at the moment. We've sure gone through our own episodes of it here, which could start up again. Extreme filter and water units are simply a matter of ordering them, and being willing to pay the extra price. The kind of hazmat standards I had to supply equip for involved fully sealed certified Hepa systems. Simply putting a Hepa filter into a vac or room air cleaner is not the same things, because particulates have ways of getting around the filter itself. But the same companies offer optional filtration systems which pick up particulates 100 times finer than Hepa standards. So next time you plan to make a true plutonium or radium print instead of using ordinary uranyl nitrate toner, you might want to look into one of those. It would be a shame if all your hand-coated papers got fogged due to yourself glowing in the dark.

[faberryman]

Fab - My darkroom complex is in a whole other building off-limits to our cats. But I have to be awfully careful they don't sneak in, and that I shake out my clothes well and give em a good blast from the air compressor. For anything really fussy I have a separate film room with its own enlargers, and swab the whole place down before anything really critical. I have a true cleanroom smock (100% long-fiber lintless dacron), an industrial quality air filter, and triple-filtered compressed air lines incoming. Sometimes white concrete efflorescence rises up through the slab despite it being epoxy sealed. I can take one of my Festool vacs in their and capture it completely. But that kind of very fine powder any kind will go straight through any kind of ordinary shop vac, even with an alleged Hepa filter installed, senign it all through the air creating an even worse mess.

Yes, I am aware of all of those things. You have shared them with us before. You do not need to repeat yourself for my benefit. My memory is largely intact. The thing which surprises me is, even with all that specialized equipment and detailed procedures, you still have to spot your prints. Puzzling.

[bob carnie]

thanks Peter Looks great I will invesigate this for my shop

[bob carnie]

I heard the clean room in your complex is the only true vacuum in the known universe, where even virtual particles are forbidden.

Oh no Michael... Drew takes advantage of Wormholes and Black holes to get a purity us mere mortals would never know.

[Peter De Smidt]

Glad to help, Bob. It's been working well for me.

[Drew Wiley]

Fab - the fllm room isn't the only place to worry about. What about inevitable changing of roll film in the field? What about setting up a shot on a seemingly remote 4WD track, and then some jerk suddenly roars by stirring up dust. What about the past three weeks here, where every single day has been howling wind right at the peak of pollen season? Maybe all that smoke coming down from the north will reach you too - Have a dust collector big enough for half of North America?

Who knows? Maybe all the smoke is actually coming for Bob fuming glass plates, or allowing his gum arabic kettle to catch fire while he's crawling around on the floor looking for an escaped newt or toad necessary for an old witch's formula.

[faberryman]

Fab - the fllm room isn't the only place to worry about. What about inevitable changing of roll film in the field? What about setting up a shot on a seemingly remote 4WD track, and then some jerk suddenly roars by stirring up dust. What about the past three weeks here, where every single day has been howling wind right at the peak of pollen season? Maybe all that smoke coming down from the north will reach you too - Have a dust collector big enough for half of North America?

Who knows? Maybe all the smoke is actually coming for Bob fuming glass plates, or allowing his gum arabic kettle to catch fire while he's crawling around on the floor looking for an escaped newt or toad necessary for an old witch's formula.

I clean my negative and my glass negative carrier before I make a print.

[Drew Wiley]

... which you no doubt in turn clean using 60-grit sandpaper. The top of my truck needs that kind of Simonize treatment. Who doesn't clean their carrier glass and negs on this forum? The question is, do you do that wearing a linty cotton shirt, with the cat rubbing up to your hand? - better than a porcupine, I guess. But it might be more pertinent to pose the question exactly HOW do you clean your glass? I'm still looking for the silver bullet. So let me be the first to state my own method, and hopefully solicit
alternate answers.

I take the carrier glass to the sink, scrub it with the most gentle kind of nylon mesh pad I can find using vinegar Windex. Then I gently hose it off (our water here has very little mineral content), and blow all the remaining beads of water off using my micro-filtered air line at low PSI (30 PSI), then set the two sheets in my clean room to dry. When I install the sheets back into whatever carrier, they're carefully examined with reading glasses under an inspection light next to the intake side of a large air purifier. Same for film. And when working with multiple sheets of film needing to be exposed in register, I swab and mop down the entire room in advance. I never do FB black and white printing in the same room during the same general timeframe as critical color work - too much lint risk. I cut my teeth on large static-prone Cibachromes, which are hell to retouch. It proved to be a beneficial bootcamp experience.

[faberryman]

... which you no doubt in turn clean using 60-grit sandpaper. The top of my truck needs that kind of Simonize treatment. Who doesn't clean their carrier glass and negs on this forum? The question is, do you do that wearing a linty cotton shirt, with the cat rubbing up to your hand? - better than a porcupine, I guess. But it might be more pertinent to pose the question exactly HOW do you clean your glass? I'm still looking for the silver bullet. So let me be the first to state my own method, and hopefully solicit
alternate answers.

I take the carrier glass to the sink, scrub it with the most gentle kind of nylon mesh pad I can find using vinegar Windex. Then I gently hose it off (our water here has very little mineral content), and blow all the remaining beads of water off using my micro-filtered air line at low PSI (30 PSI), then set the two sheets in my clean room to dry. When I install the sheets back into whatever carrier, they're carefully examined with reading glasses under an inspection light next to the intake side of a large air purifier. Same for film. And when working with multiple sheets of film needing to be exposed in register, I swab and mop down the entire room in advance. I never do FB black and white printing in the same room during the same general timeframe as critical color work - too much lint risk. I cut my teeth on large static-prone Cibachromes, which are hell to retouch. It proved to be a beneficial bootcamp experience.

So you do all that and still have to spot your prints? Puzzling.

[Michael R]

I just use lens cleaner fluid and microfiber cloths.


... which you no doubt in turn clean using 60-grit sandpaper. The top of my truck needs that kind of Simonize treatment. Who doesn't clean their carrier glass and negs on this forum? The question is, do you do that wearing a linty cotton shirt, with the cat rubbing up to your hand? - better than a porcupine, I guess. But it might be more pertinent to pose the question exactly HOW do you clean your glass? I'm still looking for the silver bullet. So let me be the first to state my own method, and hopefully solicit
alternate answers.

I take the carrier glass to the sink, scrub it with the most gentle kind of nylon mesh pad I can find using vinegar Windex. Then I gently hose it off (our water here has very little mineral content), and blow all the remaining beads of water off using my micro-filtered air line at low PSI (30 PSI), then set the two sheets in my clean room to dry. When I install the sheets back into whatever carrier, they're carefully examined with reading glasses under an inspection light next to the intake side of a large air purifier. Same for film. And when working with multiple sheets of film needing to be exposed in register, I swab and mop down the entire room in advance. I never do FB black and white printing in the same room during the same general timeframe as critical color work - too much lint risk. I cut my teeth on large static-prone Cibachromes, which are hell to retouch. It proved to be a beneficial bootcamp experience.

[Drew Wiley]

I have that at the workstation too, Michael; but it never really cleans the glass well enough for me. And film cleaner per se works a lot better on real film than on carrier glass. My favorite microfiber lens cloths are the 3M dimpled kind. I've heard of ultrasonic cleaning baths shattering thin glass. Ultra-clean peel-away coatings as sometimes used in the final stages of lens manufacture are too expensive, unhealthy, and tedious for personal use. I've tried all kinds of methods, and ended up pretty much standardizing on what I described earlier.

As per Fab's predictable sniping - NO! - I don't do much color print spotting at all, maybe 15 min in total the past three months. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a cleaner workflow when it really counts.
But FB prints have more issues needing it. Minor flaws in the paper itself occur. Any major boost in contrast when VC printing exaggerates any flaws in the film or glass itself. Little Chihuahua MF shots hoping to run in the same pack as big dog prints obviously require a greater degree of enlargement, with greater attention to tiny blemishes.