Glass Dressing or coating for old lenses

[Drew Bedo]

Several years ago I asked if there was a finish coating I could apply to the exterior elements of an old lens. Now I am moving forward with a project lens and want to get some.

My recollection is that there were several suggestions, but I have no rtecord here at home of what that was.

Can't find search terms on this forum that work.

Anyone remembe?

[Jim Noel]

This isn't a suggestion as to what to do but the first coated lenses came about because a photographer or photographers in the late 19th century noticed that lenses that had been used a lot in a smoke filled studio had a light film on them and seemed to produce a sharper image. After cleaning this additional sharpness was lost.
Is this true? I'm not sure but I've heard it for at least 75 years, and it makes sense.

[Mark Sawyer]

This isn't a suggestion as to what to do but the first coated lenses came about because a photographer or photographers in the late 19th century noticed that lenses that had been used a lot in a smoke filled studio had a light film on them and seemed to produce a sharper image. After cleaning this additional sharpness was lost.
Is this true? I'm not sure but I've heard it for at least 75 years, and it makes sense.

I doubt it. Coatings are for reducing reflections within the lens, thus increasing contrast and reducing flare, but they don't affect resolution.

[reddesert]

There is a kernel of truth to the serendipitous origin story of optical coatings, although it's not about a photographer, cigarette smoke, or resolution; but respectively Lord Rayleigh, tarnish, and transmission. From wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-reflective_coating

"The simplest form of anti-reflective coating was discovered by Lord Rayleigh in 1886. The optical glass available at the time tended to develop a tarnish on its surface with age, due to chemical reactions with the environment. Rayleigh tested some old, slightly tarnished pieces of glass, and found to his surprise that they transmitted more light than new, clean pieces. The tarnish replaces the air-glass interface with two interfaces: an air-tarnish interface and a tarnish-glass interface. Because the tarnish has a refractive index between those of glass and air, each of these interfaces exhibits less reflection than the air-glass interface did."

I don't know of any simple techniques for home-coating a lens: an AR coating has to be very even and very thin, it's not something you can paint on. Questions would include, what do you want to achieve, protection or decreased reflection/increased transmission? And, is increased flare part of the character of an old lens anyway?

[Vaidotas]

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?44234-What-is-bloom

[Mark J]

I remember years ago reading an article on a novel telescope design, by Donald Dilworth ( a notable figure in optics, he wrote a lens design program ) . He made the optics himself, and a couple of internal lenses were of a high-index lead flint glass, which he dipped in dilute acid for a specified time, to form a basic AR coating.

[GoodOldNorm]

Would it not be easier to fit a coated lens filter?

[Drew Bedo]

This is a 150year old brass barreled Petzval. I will be using it with a Packard Ideal pneumatic shutter as a shooter and want to retain a "period correct" look.

I had thought that a few years ago, there was a discussion here on a glass dressing that sort of protected the ouer surface, a bit like waxing a car (not a good analogy).

[Tin Can]

Very glad you are going to use a Packard

[Mark Sawyer]

Would it not be easier to fit a coated lens filter?

Coatings on the filter would reduce reflections from the filter surfaces. AR lens coatings are for reducing reflections from surfaces inside the lens itself. Those are the culprits behind flare and reduced contrast.

[Drew Bedo]

Very glad you are going to use a Packard


I had thought about a Thornton Pickard roller blind shutter, but they seem finicky and complex. Only antique examples are available now.


The Packard seems to be a simpler mechanism. Additionally, the compasny is still in business as a side gig for the current owner and it can be worked on. I had him do the install on my lens board and it works fine and looks great.

https://packardshutter.com/

Another approach would be a working Graflex or other press camera with a focal plane shutter. But I am not looking to make 4x5 glass plates.

[Tin Can]

If you 'improve' your old lens it will lose the old effects inherent

I store my lenses in stainless steel ventilated room HVAC temp cabinet

and never touch the glass

Yes, some were very dirty when I got them

I have Acetone and don't like to need it, medical cotton balls

I also have Purosol Optical Glass cleaner as final

still testing Activated Powder Charcoal

[Drew Bedo]

Not looking to "improve" it or alter the optical properties in any way. /the intention is protecting or filling micro scratches..

[BrianShaw]

I'd be more inlcined to just clean it and use it. Have you looked into the potential usability of a product like this for your application?

https://www.ejwheaton.com/products/e-j-wheaton-co-glass-wax-polishes-and-protects-windows-mirrors-and-metal-surfaces-dries-chalk-white-easy-to-apply-and-to-remove-made-in-usa

[ridax]

Not looking to "improve" it or alter the optical properties in any way. /the intention is protecting or filling micro scratches..

There is no way to fill the micro scratches. Re-polishing is the only method to get rid of them. And as for the glass protection, one has to apply a really modern high-thech technology to apply a coating that's harder then the glass itself. The vast majority of the coating methods make either soft or very soft surfaces.

[Drew Bedo]

I'd be more inlcined to just clean it and use it. Have you looked into the potential usability of a product like this for your application?

https://www.ejwheaton.com/products/e-j-wheaton-co-glass-wax-polishes-and-protects-windows-mirrors-and-metal-surfaces-dries-chalk-white-easy-to-apply-and-to-remove-made-in-usa

The product name seems to ring a bell . . .the "chalk white" part gives me pause though. I'll try out a bottle and give it a go on some other lens I have laying around . . .stare with a magnifying glass from the desk drawer or an oscilloscope lens maybe.

[Drew Bedo]

Has anyone ever used that product?

Or a similar on?

[BrianShaw]

Glass wax, a carnuba wax product, is a very old-fashioned product. It may even pre-date ammonia-based window cleaners like Windex; I'm not sure, though, and not going to research it. My grandmother used the term "glass wax" as a generic name the way many people use "Kleenex" for all facial tissue. I've used a glass wax product on windows, both home and automotive, and eyeglasses. I recall it being really good stuff and sheds water excellently. I had a plexiglass(?) windshield/fairing on my motorcycle and never had visibility issues when riding in mist or rain.

On an uncoated camera lens I would expect the same characteristics as it exhibits on a window. I recall back in the 1980's Calumet gave away and sold a product that seems similar in that it rubbed on, dried and was buffed off. I used it once and it really made my multi-coated lens clean. The next time I was tempted to use it, the product had dried up to a hard mass, so I'm guessing that it was a solvent-based wax product also. The lens shows absolutely no signs of any damage even after three decades. I can't recall the trade name of that specific product, though, and haven't been able to identify it when I last tried to find out what it was.

EDIT: Found the product I was mentioning that Calumet sold. Lens Site Professional Lens Cleaner.
https://archive.org/details/calumet-photo-catalog-1988-d.-d.-teoli-jr.-a.-c.-42/Calumet%20Photo%20Catalog%201988%20D.D.Teoli%20Jr.%20A.C.%20%2837%29.jpg

[Drew Bedo]

What about glass products that use the term "Ceramic"?

[Tin Can]

What about glass products that use the term "Ceramic"?

The only thing I would use is Ren Wax

https://www.amazon.com/Renaissance-Micro-Crystalline-Wax-Polish-65/dp/B001DSZWEM/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3V0DP4KYLRLUE&keywords=renaissance+wax&qid=1686338863&sprefix=renassence+wax%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-3

[reddesert]

Put a few drops of windex-type glass cleaner or lens cleaning or alcohol on a microfiber cloth, wipe gently, and dry. You shouldn't need to do anything more. Using anything that seems remotely abrasive is abuse.

[Tin Can]

Yesturday I read the Deardorff Saga

They were polishing lenses a long time ago

before coatings

[BrianShaw]

What about glass products that use the term "Ceramic"?
If your goal is for water to bead up into droplets, that would be as good as a wax. "Ceramic" seems very much like a 21st century buzzword and on car finishes is known to not have long-lasting durability unless extensive preparation efforts are employed.

What more than clean glass are you seeking; this kind of stuff won't fill scratches; scratches most likely will have no effect on image unless shooting into the sun????

[Drew Bedo]

^^^^

Well. . .I am exploring. The term, "Ceramic" implies hardness. I have a 150 year old unmarked Petzval on order and want to refurbish it as may be possible. The consensus here is for nothing to be done except cleaning.

Wouldn't think of doing anything to the glass of my mid-'80s era LF lenses: Caltar, Fujinon and Nikkor.

[BrianShaw]

The consensus is most likely the right answer, Drew. I’d put effort into finding a lens hood solution:)

[John Layton]

...there was also the school of thought that filling a scratch with black ink would mitigate scratch-induced refractions. Never had a scratch deep enough on a lens to try this, but have on a filter and it seemed to help.

[ridax]

filling a scratch with black ink

It works fine with big scratches but I do not know a trick to make the ink get into the small ones.

[Tin Can]

Taking Pictures Using a Lens With a Smashed Middle Element

There are many more examples

https://fstoppers.com/diy/taking-pictures-using-lens-smashed-middle-element-407756

[reddesert]

This is a good one too: Scratched Front Element, https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2008/10/front-element-scratches/

(typically, rear element damage has worse effects than front element damage).

[nolindan]

To get water to bead up on glass try https://www.rainx.com/original-glass-water-repellent/

Though, why anyone would care about water beading on a photographic lens is beyond me.

[Drew Bedo]

Got the product called "Glass Wax". Cleaned then waxed my reading glasses with the stuff. Seems nice.

[Tin Can]

I used this GOOD Stuff when my wipers failed

RainX


Got the product called "Glass Wax". Cleaned then waxed my reading glasses with the stuff. Seems nice.

[BrianShaw]

Got the product called "Glass Wax". Cleaned then waxed my reading glasses with the stuff. Seems nice.

I’ll bet that helps you see a bit better!

Now that you’ve tried it, would you consider using it on a camera lens?

[Nodda Duma]

*scans through thread*

*shudders*

*backs out slowly*

[Tin Can]

The OP keeps the nightmare alive


*scans through thread*

*shudders*

*backs out slowly*

[Drew Bedo]

Would Use it?

I would hesitate to use Glas Wax or any of the other similar products on any lens I know own. Mybe on a UV filter.

Ther were lenses in the past that I might now have put it on as a last what-the-heck-t-might-help sort of thing.

I have used Rainex on my car and like it for that.

[Tin Can]

I belive I told you I use nothing

Unless I am 'gifted' a filthy one

Then I work hard by hand

each is different

mostly I buy only damn near perfect




and i can mess them up....

[Drew Bedo]

I have a limited kit of "modern" LF lenses, mostly 1980s era. All have preteen optics and I leve them alone.

The idea of using the Glass Wax or some other dressing with "ceramic" in the name was just a thought rooted in a conversation with a friend a few years ago..

I am now moving gently into the old brass lenses. Plenty of really nice ones out there; all it takes is money. I am coming at it from the bottom up though. My current acquisition is a no-name Petzval that needed a few screws and a CLA to the glass. I chose not to do it myself for this one; timid maybe.

If the whole wet plate and Petzval scene is not for me, I won't have my entire photo budget tied up in it. If I decide to go all-in later on, I'll sell off something and pop for a premium collectable and maybe a Thornton Picard shutter . . . ..

The pool of knowledge and experience on this board is deep and wide. I value and respect the contributions of those who have shared their thoughts in this thread.

[Tin Can]

I use this on my coated eyeglasses every day, for years

Purosol PUOC-10070 Optical Lens Cleaning Combo Kit

many sellers including B&H with good reviews

if a lens is very dirty I may use Acetone in good ventlation, like outside on the picnic table

then the above

use pure medical cotton balls and never use the same ball and surface twice

they are very cheap

I have a lot of big and small microfiber wipes I wash and air dry, in a lady stuff, bag

never a scratch on NON coated lenses

[Michael Jones]

Drew:

Edmunds makes optic components and has an opinion on cleaning. You may find this helpful:
https://www.edmundoptics.com/knowledge-center/application-notes/optics/cleaning-optics/

and their supplies:
https://www.edmundoptics.com/c/cleaning/643/

Thanks for posting the link to Packard !

Mike

[Tin Can]

I do the same

but never thought about spitle

wear a mask

" It is also recommended to not chew gum or talk while handling optics to prevent saliva contamination. Saliva particles will often stain the surface."