New 75mm Hypergon Lens

[rayfor]

Update 2023-11-28

Here's the link to printables for lensboards and db shutter adapter. https://www.printables.com/model/578233-linhof-and-sinar-140db-type-lensboard-for-hypergon


Update 2023-11-09

Finally, the lens is ready.

Elevan Film(https://elevanfilm.com/product/hypergon75/) is the sales agent now. Due to some transaction fee, the final price is USD 539 + p&p.

It's not a volume product so sometime it take a while to ship.


Update 2023-08-18

The filter mount is redesigned with ball bearing. And I found a manufactruer of silicon mask for these perfect aperature.

And the next phase is PVT. So we will see the final product very soon.

241605
It seems the attachment amount has match the limit. Maybe a new thread is needed? I put these updates onto youtube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTlZxNivUM


Update 2023-08-07

The final color will be shiny black(raw surface in the last post) with shiny brass parts. As for the patent and markings, the Hypergon patent is expired but the C.P.GOERZ is still owned by OPC in germany. I've asked a lawyer, it's not protected in any other countries. But it is still a hitorical trademark so I'm not sure if it is fine to use it on this lens. Maybe IMO GOERZ (In memory of GOERZ) would be better since GOERZ alone is not an trademark.

Another news is for camera. We are going to launch the cheapest 8x10 camera system ECO810. It is an metal light weight modular camera system that is even cheaper than intrepid. We've sold dozens of it in Asia and currently tring to sell it to North Amercia and Europe. There will be another post about it.


Update 2023-07-24

I've made two sample, sandblasted(Fig1 Upper Left) and raw surface(Fig1 Bottom Left), with anodized color.

It seems the one with raw surface looks better, even better than the original hypergon(Fig1 Bottom Right)

240845

It's not easy to mount hypergon on any shutter, even sinar db shutter would block some light when shoting 8x10. It seesm it is necessary to build a unique shutter for this lens to work with high speed film. Or maybe adding ND filters is an easier choice?


240846
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// update 2023-06-19
Current status:Engineering sample done, quoting for volume CNC price.
Next phase: Price and pre-ording will be available once I got the price for all parts.


a short video of Engineering sample:

https://youtube.com/shorts/_cBnm087wMM?feature=share

Photo:

239703239704239705239706


// original post
It's still a prototype, with modern AR coating
238886238887238888238889

I'm still not sure how to manufacture that mini fan (Central ND).
Should be less then $500 (in CNC mount).

[John Layton]

How about a circular race ball bearing mechanism surrounding the lens? The "fan" itself (laser cut from thin aluminum and black anodized) would consist of two or three blades...wider in the middle and tapering to very thin where they intersect the edge of the race at three points. The blades would obviously need to be curved downwards towards the edges as the race itself would need to be quite low-profile, so as not to interfere with the image field.

The outside of the race could be cut with gear teeth (or a ring gear attached to the outer circumference)...which are driven by a spring wound mechanism which would be cocked and fired like a shutter. Could utilize something like a slow speed mechanism (could use an existing one?) to keep the fan speed constant. Or perhaps that outer race gear could be incorporated into such a mechanism. If you watch one of these closely in action (remove one from a copal shutter and work it around)...you might see what I'm saying. Would be great I think!

Oh...and you could also incorporate something like a self-timing mechanism for much longer exposure intervals.

Seems like you'd have enough room on the flat of that plate surrounding the lens for something like this. What do you think?

At any rate...its so very exciting to see that you are re-creating such a fascinating lens! (I want one!) Good luck!

[John Layton]

ps...a much simpler mechanism would be to attach "fan blades" to the outside of that circular race...and position an air tube near this to blow the fan around - much like the original. Could go either way I guess...but I like the idea of the spring driven model - would be more accurate and adjustable for different time intervals.

Oh...and in either case - of course, as in the original fan, the "axis" needs to be off center (so as not to compromise the image), and the rotating area of this "axis" needs to be figured into the ND forumula.

[Bobhoskin]

Nice job! What do you mean for that 500$ as a final price?
Looking forward for updates

[Greg]

Also looking forward for updates... I assume for 8x10 format?

[Hugo Zhang]

Is this the same lens Jason posted in another thread a few months ago?

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?171747-Interest-in-a-new-Hypergon&highlight=Hypergon

[Havoc]

Drool.... This looks great. Keep us informed. Please...

[Mark J]

Does anyone understand how the 'fan' worked on the original Hypergon ?
I have wondered about this for years. Surely the pupil size is so small ( ~2mm ) that you could not avoid having a black spot in the centre of the image ?

[Mark Sawyer]

Does anyone understand how the 'fan' worked on the original Hypergon ?
I have wondered about this for years. Surely the pupil size is so small ( ~2mm ) that you could not avoid having a black spot in the centre of the image ?

The fan spins for most of the exposure time, exposing the outside area of the film/plate. It swings out of the way at the end of the exposure to expose the center. The recommendation is for the exposure time without the fan to be 1/8 of the exposure time with the fan, but that of course depends on the reciprocity failure rate of the film/plate.

The fan-equipped Hypergon was made prior to the invention of center filters, which might be a more practical solution today.

[Dan Fromm]

The fan-equipped Hypergon was made prior to the invention of center filters, which might be a more practical solution today.

Hmm. The VM, not always a reliable source, says that the Hypergon was invented, or perhaps came to market, in 1900. By 1912 Rodenstock cataloged a sort of competitor, the Pantogonal, which covers 125 -130 degrees. R'stock offered a center filter, the Enixantos, for the Pantogonal and touted it as superior to "bunglesome and complicated appliances usually found on extreme angle lenses." Someone recognized optical CF's advantages over mechanical ones almost from the beginning.

[John Layton]

I believe that the fan had an asymmetrical axis which rotated around a true (measured) axis - mitigating any "blind spot" issues.

[Greg]

I believe that the fan had an asymmetrical axis which rotated around a true (measured) axis - mitigating any "blind spot" issues.

My understanding is that the fan was rotated and used for half of the exposure, then swung out of the way for the second half of the exposure.

[rayfor]

Nice job! What do you mean for that 500$ as a final price?
Looking forward for updates



not as final price, but should be cheaper than that

[rayfor]

Also looking forward for updates... I assume for 8x10 format?

designed for 8x10, but I've not tested it yet since the edge will become very dark without Central ND

[rayfor]

Is this the same lens Jason posted in another thread a few months ago?

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?171747-Interest-in-a-new-Hypergon&highlight=Hypergon

Nope, I will only provide 75mm hypergon

[rayfor]

How about a circular race ball bearing mechanism surrounding the lens? The "fan" itself (laser cut from thin aluminum and black anodized) would consist of two or three blades...wider in the middle and tapering to very thin where they intersect the edge of the race at three points. The blades would obviously need to be curved downwards towards the edges as the race itself would need to be quite low-profile, so as not to interfere with the image field.

The outside of the race could be cut with gear teeth (or a ring gear attached to the outer circumference)...which are driven by a spring wound mechanism which would be cocked and fired like a shutter. Could utilize something like a slow speed mechanism (could use an existing one?) to keep the fan speed constant. Or perhaps that outer race gear could be incorporated into such a mechanism. If you watch one of these closely in action (remove one from a copal shutter and work it around)...you might see what I'm saying. Would be great I think!

Oh...and you could also incorporate something like a self-timing mechanism for much longer exposure intervals.

Seems like you'd have enough room on the flat of that plate surrounding the lens for something like this. What do you think?

At any rate...its so very exciting to see that you are re-creating such a fascinating lens! (I want one!) Good luck!

the original mechanism was elegant but fragile, and hard to control, I'm considering make a modern central ND like the one used by Super Angulon XL.

[Mark J]

The fan spins for most of the exposure time, exposing the outside area of the film/plate. It swings out of the way at the end of the exposure to expose the center. The recommendation is for the exposure time without the fan to be 1/8 of the exposure time with the fan, but that of course depends on the reciprocity failure rate of the film/plate.

The fan-equipped Hypergon was made prior to the invention of center filters, which might be a more practical solution today.

Ah thanks - that solves the mystery !

[John Layton]

But would using a central ND filter (or any standard glass filter) cause some issues - due to its refractive properties...when placed over such a curved optic? Just guessing here, mind you!

[Greg]

But would using a central ND filter (or any standard glass filter) cause some issues - due to its refractive properties...when placed over such a curved optic? Just guessing here, mind you!
What if a central ND filter was placed between the two lenses? Maybe not enough room for a shutter, but possibly room for a thin central ND filter. Also just guessing on this end.

[ridax]

But would using a central ND filter (or any standard glass filter) cause some issues - due to its refractive properties...when placed over such a curved optic? Just guessing here, mind you!

I also doubt it would work with a 135° lens that is not retrofocus nor is made according to the Roosinov's aberrational vignetting principle (like all the Biogons, Grandagons, etc., etc.). A spherically curved filter may probably be a solution.... but certainly not a cheap one.


What if a central ND filter was placed between the two lenses? Maybe not enough room for a shutter, but possibly room for a thin central ND filter. Also just guessing on this end.

Between the lens elements, the filter just wouldn't work as a center filter.

What I would like is to have an option to put yellow/green/orange/red gel filters inside the lens. It would be good for both modifying the image tones and cutting the influence of the chromatic aberration down.

[Dan Fromm]

I also doubt it would work with a 135° lens that is not retrofocus nor is made according to the Roosinov's aberrational vignetting principle (like all the Biogons, Grandagons, etc., etc.). A spherically curved filter may probably be a solution.... but certainly not a cheap one.

Please explain further. I ask because Rodenstock's Pantogonal, a 3 element lens and neither retrofocus nor Russar type, was offered with a flat center filter.

"This consists of a plano-convex lens of yellowish green glass which absorbs very strongly blue and violet light, and a plano-concave lens of a colorless, very transparent material. The optical constants of both these lenses is exactly equal so that the cemented lenses act as a plane parallel plate which is dark in the center and transparent at the sides."

[Mark J]

I also doubt it would work with a 135° lens that is not retrofocus nor is made according to the Roosinov's aberrational vignetting principle (like all the Biogons, Grandagons, etc., etc.). A spherically curved filter may probably be a solution.... but certainly not a cheap one.



Between the lens elements, the filter just wouldn't work as a center filter.

What I would like is to have an option to put yellow/green/orange/red gel filters inside the lens. It would be good for both modifying the image tones and cutting the influence of the chromatic aberration down.

I don't know what is meant by the 'aberrational vignetting' principle. Is it in his original paper ?
The problem with any flat filter used with the Hypergon is that for a ±67.5° field angle, the surface losses from a filter, either used outside or internally, become quite significant at the edge of the FOV and add to the fall-off. Even with AR coatings on the filter, most AR coatings are only better than bare glass out to about 60° incidence.
However, for a centre-filter ( US : center-filter ) , the effect of the internal gradation of the filter will still outweigh these surface-loss problems, so this is worthwhile.
For a coloured filter in the area of the stop, bear in mind that there will still be increasing surface-reflection losses beyond 60° , and that the light path through the filter is also longer for the edge-bundles, so the absorption will be a bit greater than in the centre, though this shouldn't be enough of a barrier to it working OK ... if you can compensate for the filter thickness affecting the effective air-gap.... Gels will probably be Ok though.

[ridax]

I don't know what is meant by the 'aberrational vignetting' principle. Is it in his original paper?

Yes that's the term Roosinov used to call his invention - both in his original papers and in his tutorials on optics (which I own and read from time to time but alas I'm not good enough in mathematics to get it all in). He chose that name because similarly to the common geometric vignetting that changes the lens pupil shape at the field edges, the aberrations he implied also changed the pupil shape off center. But while the geometric vignetting always make the pupil smaller causing light fall-off, the aberrational vignetting is able to increase the pupil size thus diminishing the light fall-off.



for a centre-filter ( US : center-filter ) <...> in the area of the stop, bear in mind that there will still be increasing surface-reflection losses beyond 60° , and that the light path through the filter is also longer for the edge-bundles, so the absorption will be a bit greater than in the centre, though this shouldn't be enough of a barrier to it working OK ...

Here is the most descriptive ray tracing diagram for the Hypergon that I found in my quick internet search:-
https://a4.pbase.com/g4/08/747708/2/138760037.fhBJDuo3.jpg

It clearly shows that at the place of the aperture, ALL the rays go through the same small circle in the center, and there is NO way to stop the paraxial rays while letting the oblique rays through. And that's true for any lens of any type.

[ridax]

Please explain further. I ask because Rodenstock's Pantogonal, a 3 element lens and neither retrofocus nor Russar type, was offered with a flat center filter.

"This consists of a plano-convex lens of yellowish green glass which absorbs very strongly blue and violet light, and a plano-concave lens of a colorless, very transparent material. The optical constants of both these lenses is exactly equal so that the cemented lenses act as a plane parallel plate which is dark in the center and transparent at the sides."

Please bear in mind I don't positively state it would not work; I just say I have serious doubts. Those are:-

(1) The surface reflection problem addressed by Mark J above (and that's one of the reasons to suggest a hemispherical filter instead of a plane one),

and

(2) the fact that a plane-parallel glass plate introduces its own aberrations. The thicker the plate, the more pronounced the aberrations are. And the greater the angle, the more pronounced the aberrations are, too. (An ultra-thin pellicle filter would probably work fine. But it would probably cost several times more then the Hypergon itself and be way more fragile than the original Hypergon star/fan.)

The Pantogonal center filter description suggests a pretty thick glass plate in front of the lens; that makes me suppose the Pantogonal was designed from the start to be the most sharp with the filter in place. The Hypergon was certainly not. Perhaps it is possible to modify the Hypergon to be good with the filter but that means lots of new calculations.

A prominent example of the plane-parallell glass plate influence are aireal lenses. Virtually all of them are designed to work with a thick glass plate just in front of the film plane, and perform more or less poorly without it. I've recently tested a bunch of the famous 125mm f/4 super-apochromatic CZJ Pinatar lenses that are often said to be the sharpest glass in the world. Those are for the 6x9cm format and really far from beeing wide-angle but without their 8mm-thick plane-parallel focal plane glass plates, they are really poor performers not worth their own weight....

[reddesert]

Roosinov's patent is US2516724A, https://patents.google.com/patent/US2516724A/en?oq=us2516724 You have to download the PDF as the OCR'ed text is very poor.

He uses "aberrational vignetting" to refer to the property that decreases the light falloff from cos^4 to cos^3. Today, it is often referred to as a tilting of the exit pupil; Roosinov's diagrams Figs 3-7 and 8-12 illustrate how the pupil shape is less cat-eyed off axis, but he doesn't use the wording of the exit pupil. I am not sure where he originated the phrase aberrational vignetting, but I think he's deliberately relaxing/violating one of the normal lens design assumptions; he speaks of maximum divergence from Abbe's sine condition for the half-lens as seen from the aperture.

The aperture stop in an imaging lens is more or less by definition the "waist" where all the ray bundles from both on-axis and off-axis sources cross. It's conjugate to the image plane (maximally out of focus) and so you can't introduce a center filter there. (Basically the same reason that you can stop down an ordinary lens without cutting off the corners of the field.)

However, there is a big difference between introducing a flat filter in front of the lens and behind the lens. A flat filter (plane parallel plate) will cause a focus shift, and for off-axis sources, introduce some astigmatism because the effect of refraction in the plate on the sagittal and tangential directions is different. In front of the lens, in pictorial use the object is typically very far away (many focal lengths) and the beam from an on- or off-axis source is nearly collimated. This makes the focus shift negligible and means the astigmatism has little effect, although it might still have some effect at the extreme field angles of a Hypergon, someone would have to try it to see.

Behind the lens, the lens to film distance is quite short and the beam for any source, on or off-axis, is strongly converging. This makes the focus shift significant and likely increase the effect of the off-axis astigmatism. That's why for normal, non-Hypergon lenses, we put glass filters in front of them without refocusing or off-axis image degradation, but if a lens is designed to have a rear filter, then it needs that rear filter or it won't perform right. (Common SLR examples include some mirror telephotos and fisheye lenses.) So I don't know if a front filter would yield acceptable results with a Hypergon-type lens, but it is a different case from a rear filter.

[ridax]

...So I don't know if a front filter would yield acceptable results with a Hypergon-type lens, but it is a different case from a rear filter.

Yes indeed it is different.
And I don't know the results of using a center filter in front of a Hypergon either....

Thank you for your thorough explanation.

[John Layton]

Totally naive question: what about treating the optic itself with a variable density coating?

[Mark J]

Thank you Ridax for the explanation of 'aberrational vignetting'.
I think he could have used a better description, really - after all, it's 'aberrational de-vignetting' ! He deserves to be better-known, for the fine work he did on wide-angle lens design.
It is little known, but there are sets of aberrations (like Seidels) for the appearance and position of pupils, in optics, as distinct from aberrations of the image spots.
The effect you see in wide-angle lenses is largely caused by pupil coma. It can easily be seen in wide-angle optics, looking at the front and tilting the lens around. You can observe the pupil expanding and turning towards you, and the expansion may be greater in the meridional section. This is the effect that enables cos^3 falloff or cos^2 fall-off in modern wide angle optics.
Unfortunately the Hypergon does not display this, and we are stuck with cos^4 ... !

John, it's a good question, it can be done and we have done it sometimes over the years, at work.
it does tend to be expensive though, it requires special masking and 'culotte' rotation in the vacuum-coating chamber, to do a set of lenses graded like this, and the 'plant fill' is much reduced, leading to a higher cost.
You also have to be careful if using a reflecting attenuation ( eg. a very thin layer of aluminium ) , it can cause ghosting problems.

[Mark J]

Thanks for the Roosinov patent link.


It's conjugate to the image plane (maximally out of focus) and so you can't introduce a center filter there.

Well.. it's not conjugate, and that's the problem !
The stop is the pupil plane, and there is no separation of the on and off-axis pupils there.
But clearly you understand this and the advice is correct.

I would definitely recommend a centre filter in front of the lens, but it needs to be big enough to cover all the field rays - ie. a lot bigger than the front element. They are not cheap, although some pop up on EBay.
It will reduce the vignetting, but not fully cure it.

[ridax]

Totally naive question: what about treating the optic itself with a variable density coating?

The idea came to me, too. But I am pretty sure such a cener-filter that can't be removed would make the ground glass too dim to see any image - to say nothing about focusing.

[Havoc]

Please explain further. I ask because Rodenstock's Pantogonal, a 3 element lens and neither retrofocus nor Russar type, was offered with a flat center filter.

"This consists of a plano-convex lens of yellowish green glass which absorbs very strongly blue and violet light, and a plano-concave lens of a colorless, very transparent material. The optical constants of both these lenses is exactly equal so that the cemented lenses act as a plane parallel plate which is dark in the center and transparent at the sides."

"Yellowish green glass"? Not uranium glass I hope.

[Mark J]

Oh yes, it might be - from that period ....

[John Layton]

Jeesh...that little fan just keeps looking better and better!

[rayfor]

Hey guys, I've decided to make that little fan as central filter. I will upload latest info in the main thread.

[ridax]

Good news.

[Greg]

Hey guys, I've decided to make that little fan as central filter. I will upload latest info in the main thread.

Viable option of using a laser cutter to cut the thin metal fan and bending the thin metal fan and three wires on separate jigs? A local hobbiest jeweler makes earrings (actually quite similar to the Hypergon fan) and prefers laser cutting metal and bending it to using a 3D printer. Just thinking out loud...

[Hugo Zhang]

So one needs to have two air bulbs with hose to make an exposure with this lens? One to blow the little fan on the front and the other one for the Packard shutter?

[rayfor]

I use a sinar DB shutter rather than a packard shutter so only one air bulb is needed.

[rayfor]

Viable option of using a laser cutter to cut the thin metal fan and bending the thin metal fan and three wires on separate jigs? A local hobbiest jeweler makes earrings (actually quite similar to the Hypergon fan) and prefers laser cutting metal and bending it to using a 3D printer. Just thinking out loud...

Exactly, I use a 3D printed punching die to bend it.

[rayfor]

So one needs to have two air bulbs with hose to make an exposure with this lens? One to blow the little fan on the front and the other one for the Packard shutter?

I use a sinar DB shutter rather than a packard shutter so only one air bulb is needed. Sinar DB offers accurate and fast(considering its size) shutter speed, which is important if you want to use it with normal speed film in daylight.

[Mark Sawyer]

So one needs to have two air bulbs with hose to make an exposure with this lens? One to blow the little fan on the front and the other one for the Packard shutter?

You'll need one air bulb to blow the little "fan", and a second bulb or cable release to release the little fan to fall away during the exposure. With an angle of view that wide, reaching in to release it would put your hand in the image. A Packard shutter would require yet another air bulb, so up to three separate releases.

[Kiwi7475]

So glad I have three hands [emoji12]

[Hugo Zhang]

I use a sinar DB shutter rather than a packard shutter so only one air bulb is needed.

I would love to see a video to show how you use a Sinar DB shutter with this lens. Does the shutter front have enough clearance for the lens rear element?

[rayfor]

I would love to see a video to show how you use a Sinar DB shutter with this lens. Does the shutter front have enough clearance for the lens rear element?

239743
Here's a photo showing how this work. I made a flange to mount the lens diretly onto shutter thread rather than lensboard. There's enough space on both sides.

[Hugo Zhang]

239743
Here's a photo showing how this work. I made a flange to mount the lens diretly onto shutter thread rather than lensboard. There's enough space on both sides.

I see you flipped the Sinar DB shutter over and used the thread on its back to mount your lens. Clever as you can't mount this lens on the front without an adapter which would add more space and probably block the lens coverage.

[rayfor]

Update 2023-07-24

I've made two sample, sandblasted(Fig1 Upper Left) and raw surface(Fig1 Bottom Left), with anodized color.

It seems the one with raw surface looks better, even better than the original hypergon(Fig1 Bottom Right)

240845

It's not easy to mount hypergon on any shutter, even sinar db shutter would block some light when shoting 8x10. It seesm it is necessary to build a unique shutter for this lens to work with high speed film. Or maybe adding ND filters is an easier choice?


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[Joshua Dunn]

Would it be possible to mount the Hypergon directly on a Sinar shutter, meaning do not mount it to a lens board in front on the shutter. Mount it as close as you can to the shutter blades to (hopefully) prevent it from vignetting.

-Joshua

[rayfor]

Would it be possible to mount the Hypergon directly on a Sinar shutter, meaning do not mount it to a lens board in front on the shutter. Mount it as close as you can to the shutter blades to (hopefully) prevent it from vignetting.

-Joshua

I've tried mounting on the thread of sinar shutter, but the blower tube will prevent the lens going deep enough.

[J. Patric Dahlen]

They look excellent! Just one question: Who owns the rights to the Goerz name these days?

[Mark Sawyer]

I'd be a bit concerned that making such faithful copies and putting the Goerz name on them crosses the line into counterfeiting..

[Dan Fromm]

It's not easy to mount hypergon on any shutter, even sinar db shutter would block some light when shoting 8x10. It seesm it is necessary to build a unique shutter for this lens to work with high speed film. Or maybe adding ND filters is an easier choice?

Hmm. I had a similar problem with mounting a 60/14 Perigraphe in front of a shutter. The rear shutter tube blocked the outer section of the cone of rays the lens projected.

The solution? I had SKGrimes cut off an Ilex #3's rear tube. The shutter is now permanently attached to a lens board by three little screws that go through the board and into tapped holes in the back of the shutter.

If an Ilex #3 is still too thick for a Hypergon, use a larger Ilex or Compound. It turned out that the 60/14 Perigraphe's mounting threads mated well enough with an Ilex #3's front tube's standard threading. You may have to attach a Hypergon to a threaded plate that will screw into the chosen shutter's front tube.

[Mark Sawyer]

Traditionally, some Hypergons were mounted in Volute shutters. Volutes use the same blades for aperture control and the shutter, critical when lens elements are mounted very close together as with the Hypergon.

[Mark Sampson]

One imagines that with the slow emulsions of the early 20th century, and the small aperture of the lens, adding in the increased exposure time necessary using the fan, that a shutter might not really be necessary. But convenient, to be sure.

[rayfor]

They look excellent! Just one question: Who owns the rights to the Goerz name these days?

Should be schneider. They've produced some Artar and Dagor with multicoating in modern shutter.

[rayfor]

I'd be a bit concerned that making such faithful copies and putting the Goerz name on them crosses the line into counterfeiting..

These were just samples. I've not decided the final marks yet. Any suggestions?

[rayfor]

Hmm. I had a similar problem with mounting a 60/14 Perigraphe in front of a shutter. The rear shutter tube blocked the outer section of the cone of rays the lens projected.

The solution? I had SKGrimes cut off an Ilex #3's rear tube. The shutter is now permanently attached to a lens board by three little screws that go through the board and into tapped holes in the back of the shutter.

If an Ilex #3 is still too thick for a Hypergon, use a larger Ilex or Compound. It turned out that the 60/14 Perigraphe's mounting threads mated well enough with an Ilex #3's front tube's standard threading. You may have to attach a Hypergon to a threaded plate that will screw into the chosen shutter's front tube.

hypergon75 is not small enough to fit in ilex#5. It's quite a challenge to mount it on any leaf shutter to work with 8x10.

[rayfor]

Traditionally, some Hypergons were mounted in Volute shutters. Volutes use the same blades for aperture control and the shutter, critical when lens elements are mounted very close together as with the Hypergon.

The thickness of aperature could strongly affect the vignetting of hypergon. It really matter if you want to use it with full angle of view

[Mark Sawyer]

These were just samples. I've not decided the final marks yet. Any suggestions?

Maybe just the Hypergon II, as that's what it pretty much is, though I don't know if "Hypergon" is in the public domain.

I'd also consider AR coatings. The wider the angle of view, the more likely there will be a bright light source in view, source flaring away.

But it's your undertaking, so do as you like. I'm impressed you've gotten actual working prototypes!

[Per Madsen]

If the original Hypergon had a D.R.P. patent (Deutsche Reichs Patent) , then it is in the public domain, because all german pre 1945 patents was voided after 1945.

[Dan Fromm]

hypergon75 is not small enough to fit in ilex#5. It's quite a challenge to mount it on any leaf shutter to work with 8x10.

Too big? The images in the first post in this discussion suggest that this is a mechanical design, not an optical, problem. Make the rear plate smaller. No need to copy Goerz' mechanical design as long as you get the optics right.

[J. Patric Dahlen]

If the original Hypergon had a D.R.P. patent (Deutsche Reichs Patent) , then it is in the public domain, because all german pre 1945 patents was voided after 1945.

Yes, and the patent itself propably expired already in the 1930s, so anyone can copy the design. But the question is if the tradename is still owned by Zeiss or Schneider or if it has expired.

[J. Patric Dahlen]

Should be schneider. They've produced some Artar and Dagor with multicoating in modern shutter.

Yes, it could be Schneider if they took over the Hypergon name as well, or maybe it's still Zeiss that owns particular name. It would be a good idea to ask their historical departments. Maybe they would accept a name like "Hypergon Neu nach C. P. Goerz Patent" or something like that. German sounds always better. Then a new range of serial numbers.

[Per Madsen]

Yes, it could be Schneider if they took over the Hypergon name as well, or maybe it's still Zeiss that owns particular name. It would be a good idea to ask their historical departments. Maybe they would accept a name like "Hypergon Neu nach C. P. Goerz Patent" or something like that. German sounds always better. Then a new range of serial numbers.

"Hypergon Neubau nach C. P. Goerz Original D.R.P. Patent" sounds even better

[Havoc]

"Hypergon Neubau nach C. P. Goerz Original D.R.P. Patent" sounds even better

Going to need a lot od space to put all that! :o

[J. Patric Dahlen]

"Hypergon Neubau nach C. P. Goerz Original D.R.P. Patent" sounds even better

It's too long and "D.R.P." is redundant as it stands for patent. The design was probably patented in many countries, so 'Patent' is enough.

"Hypergon Neu nach C. P. Goerz Patent" would say in simple terms that it is a new Hypergon based on the C. P. Goerz patent (And would include all of the patents, as it could have been patented in the US, UK and France).

When Franke & Heidecke made a simpler Rolleiflex to be priced between the Rolleiflex Automat and the Rolleicord, they called it "Standard Neu". "Standard" after the older Rolleiflex model, and "Neu" to distinguish it from the old one.

[rayfor]

Update 2023-08-18

The filter mount is redesigned with ball bearing. And I found a manufactruer of silicon mask for these perfect aperature.

And the next phase is PVT. So we will see the final product very soon.

241605
It seems the attachment amount has match the limit. Maybe a new thread is needed? I put these updates onto youtube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTlZxNivUM

[mamaluke]

Do update us when it is available for purchase. :)

[rayfor]

Do update us when it is available for purchase. :)

I've just received all the parts, will be ready very soon.

[Laurent Laval]

hello, is it available for purchase ? i'm interested as well !! Amazing job

[rayfor]

hello, is it available for purchase ? i'm interested as well !! Amazing job

Lenses are ready, I will put them onto my friend's website. Should be available this week or next.

[Laurent Laval]

Great thank you. can you give the website address ?

:)

[rayfor]

Great thank you. can you give the website address ?

:)

I've update the link in the main thread. :)

[Laurent Laval]

I just ordered one , Thank you !!

[Greg]

8x10 camera to use it on? I think that it wouldn't work on my 8x10 Chamonix with the front bed in the way... Have to check it out. I would be interested in what cameras the buyers of this lens are using it on. IMO is a reproduction of a classical lens that no 8x10 shooters should pass on acquiring.

[rayfor]

8x10 camera to use it on? I think that it wouldn't work on my 8x10 Chamonix with the front bed in the way... Have to check it out. I would be interested in what cameras the buyers of this lens are using it on. IMO is a reproduction of a classical lens that no 8x10 shooters should pass on acquiring.

My friend has checked Chamonix 8x10 ultra light. he said the bellow is fine but the rail will goes into the image since hypergon is too wide in this case. That's not a problem if you own a monorail camera. Also there will be a ECO810ss (snapshot version) camera available on the same website today or tomorrow.

[Tin Can]

Calumet C1

Kodak 8x10

Both metal

[Laurent Laval]

I will try it on a Intrepid 8x10 Mk II and a Sinar P2

[John Layton]

...what about something like the 8x10 "Will Travel" (super-light, 3-D printed camera)?

[rayfor]

I will try it on a Intrepid 8x10 Mk II and a Sinar P2

P2 is OK if you have a wide angle bellow

[rayfor]

...what about something like the 8x10 "Will Travel" (super-light, 3-D printed camera)?

Snapshot camera should be fine since there's no rail or limit on flange distance

[Kiwi7475]

My friend has checked Chamonix 8x10 ultra light. he said the bellow is fine but the rail will goes into the image since hypergon is too wide in this case. That's not a problem if you own a monorail camera. Also there will be a ECO810ss (snapshot version) camera available on the same website today or tomorrow.

I don’t see the ECO810ss available on the website yet… is it still coming soon?

[ic-racer]

Unlike the Chamonix 8x10, the Shen-Hao has front base tilt.
I'll try it on my Shen-Hao 8x10. I think I can use it like this . I can crop it during printing if the front base of the camera shows.


I'll update when the lens arrives .

244073

[Kiwi7475]

Unlike the Chamonix 8x10, the Shen-Hao has front base tilt.
I'll try it on my Shen-Hao 8x10. I think I can use it like this . I can crop it during printing if the front base of the camera shows.


I'll update when the lens arrives .

244073

I’m more worried about focusing at the max aperture of f22 … will I even see the front base of the camera on the ground glass?

/s

[rayfor]

I’m more worried about focusing at the max aperture of f22 … will I even see the front base of the camera on the ground glass?

/s

Sure you could see the front base. But I doubt the ground glass will appear in the view if you shot vertically.

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello
normally, my 75mm is on the way...
is it possible to have 75mm step file in order to design a mount for Copal-Sinar shutter?
It will be hot but maybe not impossible...
here you can see a cut of SINAR S2 with Copal-Sinar shutter and 135° blue light path
244109
Thanks
J.Ph.

[Greg]

Hello
normally, my 75mm is on the way...
is it possible to have 75mm step file in order to design a mount for Copal-Sinar shutter?
It will be hot but maybe not impossible...
here you can see a cut of SINAR S2 with Copal-Sinar shutter and 135° blue light path
244109
Thanks
J.Ph.

I was thinking of mounting a Sinar Norma 8x10 to 4x5 reducing back onto the front of a rear Norma 8x10 standard. Sinar shutter onto the reducing back and the 75mm Hypergon mounted as close to the shutter blades as possible. Anyone have a Sinar Norma 8x10 to 4x5 reducing back to see if this would work? Especially interested in the distance from the shutter's blades to the GG.

[Mark Sawyer]

In the original Hypergon, the lens elements were so close together that there wasn't room for both aperture and shutter blades between them. Those Hypergons could only be mounted in a Volute shutter, in which the aperture blades doubled as shutter blades. But that negated the use of the fan, which was mounted on the barrel mount. I'm not sure about spacing or center neutral density filtration on the new design.

[Certain Exposures]

Interesting thread. Couple questions:

1. The Elevan Film website does not include any sample images taken with this lens. Do any of you have example shots? I am just curious to see what the results are like. I looked up the original and didn't see any samples either.

2. Are there any reviews out on the ECO810 or coming soon? I didn't see anything aside from this unboxing without closed captions (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5II3_DdwHk) (he did not test it). It would be interesting to see the results of this lens on the ECO810.

[Certain Exposures]

In the original Hypergon, the lens elements were so close together that there wasn't room for both aperture and shutter blades between them. Those Hypergons could only be mounted in a Volute shutter, in which the aperture blades doubled as shutter blades. But that negated the use of the fan, which was mounted on the barrel mount. I'm not sure about spacing or center neutral density filtration on the new design.

Mark, I saw a thread from '04 (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10553-75mm-Hypergon) where you mentioned that you bought a 75mm Goerz Hypergon. Have you already shared many images from that lens? Any threads you could point to?

[Mark Sawyer]

Mark, I saw a thread from '04 (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10553-75mm-Hypergon) where you mentioned that you bought a 75mm Goerz Hypergon. Have you already shared many images from that lens? Any threads you could point to?

Here are a few older images made with the 75mm Hypergon on 8x10. I haven't used it much, but hope to get back to it as time allows...

[rayfor]

I don’t see the ECO810ss available on the website yet… is it still coming soon?

It's available now.

[Certain Exposures]

Here are a few older images made with the 75mm Hypergon on 8x10. I haven't used it much, but hope to get back to it as time allows...

Thanks! It has an interesting warping effect. Wide indeed. I am guessing you did not have to do adjustments to get the trees vertical because of the lens design. Would that be right?

Also one of your comments mentions that you need three separate releases to fire the lens and use the fan at the same time...how did you accomplish this? Comments reproduced below:


You'll need one air bulb to blow the little "fan", and a second bulb or cable release to release the little fan to fall away during the exposure. With an angle of view that wide, reaching in to release it would put your hand in the image. A Packard shutter would require yet another air bulb, so up to three separate releases.


So glad I have three hands [emoji12]


Here are a few older images made with the 75mm Hypergon on 8x10. I haven't used it much, but hope to get back to it as time allows...

[rayfor]

Hello
normally, my 75mm is on the way...
is it possible to have 75mm step file in order to design a mount for Copal-Sinar shutter?
It will be hot but maybe not impossible...
here you can see a cut of SINAR S2 with Copal-Sinar shutter and 135° blue light path
244109
Thanks
J.Ph.

Actually I've already provided the mount for copal-sinar DB shutter. You can find it on my printables. But Sinar DB is not thin enough so that it will block the corners if you shoot 8x10.

[rayfor]

Thanks! It has an interesting warping effect. Wide indeed. I am guessing you did not have to do adjustments to get the trees vertical because of the lens design. Would that be right?

Also one of your comments mentions that you need three separate releases to fire the lens and use the fan at the same time...how did you accomplish this? Comments reproduced below:

You sill need to adjust the camera parallol to those trees if you want to get rid of perspective distortion. But hypergon provide almost zero distortion, which means those trees will be straight. As for the fan, you can control lens cap as shutter with one hand and blower for the fan with the other hand.

[rayfor]

Mark, I saw a thread from '04 (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?10553-75mm-Hypergon) where you mentioned that you bought a 75mm Goerz Hypergon. Have you already shared many images from that lens? Any threads you could point to?

Actually I've put some photos on other SNSs, I will also add some image onto elevan's website and this thread later.

[Mark Sawyer]

Thanks! It has an interesting warping effect. Wide indeed. I am guessing you did not have to do adjustments to get the trees vertical because of the lens design. Would that be right?

Also one of your comments mentions that you need three separate releases to fire the lens and use the fan at the same time...how did you accomplish this?

If you look, the trees aren't quite vertical. The needed movements would have put them slightly out-of-focus, so I just let the lens do what it does. It's remarkable that it can stay rectilinear at that wide an angle.

I just used two releases, an air bulb to spin the fan, and a regular cable release to drop the fan away. I didn't need a third for the Packard shutter, as I just used a black box as a lens-cap style shutter. Manual override, as it were.

[Laurent Laval]

Hello all,
does anyone have effectively receive the lens from "elevanfilm.com" I placed an order and they give me a tracking number but it says "Your package is waiting to be picked up by the carrier." since 7 days now !
And my mails get returned saying "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender ..... multiple delivery attempts failed"

Strange !

[amansjeanphilippe]

Actually I've already provided the mount for copal-sinar DB shutter. You can find it on my printables. But Sinar DB is not thin enough so that it will block the corners if you shoot 8x10.
good!
but I didn't find it, could you provide a link to printables?
Thanks
J.Ph.

[ic-racer]

Hello all,
does anyone have effectively receive the lens from "elevanfilm.com" I placed an order and they give me a tracking number but it says "Your package is waiting to be picked up by the carrier." since 7 days now !
And my mails get returned saying "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender ..... multiple delivery attempts failed"

Strange !

At least you have a tracking number. I am still waiting for one.

[Laurent Laval]

At least you have a tracking number. I am still waiting for one.

:(

[Certain Exposures]

You sill need to adjust the camera parallol to those trees if you want to get rid of perspective distortion. But hypergon provide almost zero distortion, which means those trees will be straight. As for the fan, you can control lens cap as shutter with one hand and blower for the fan with the other hand.

Thanks. So, it doesn't really matter how long or how fast or how consistently the fan blows then? It just needs to move?


Actually I've put some photos on other SNSs, I will also add some image onto elevan's website and this thread later.

What is a "SNS?" Social Networking Site?


If you look, the trees aren't quite vertical. The needed movements would have put them slightly out-of-focus, so I just let the lens do what it does. It's remarkable that it can stay rectilinear at that wide an angle.

I just used two releases, an air bulb to spin the fan, and a regular cable release to drop the fan away. I didn't need a third for the Packard shutter, as I just used a black box as a lens-cap style shutter. Manual override, as it were.

I have to Google what an air bulb release looks like because I am imagining something odd. Out of curiosity, what's driving you to get a new hypergon lens? I skimmed prior replies. They got technical. This lens' update is mainly the AR coating, right?

Also, maybe I missed this @rayfor. The lens comes without a shutter so whoever buys one will need to get their own, right?

[Mark Sawyer]

I have to Google what an air bulb release looks like because I am imagining something odd. Out of curiosity, what's driving you to get a new hypergon lens? I skimmed prior replies. They got technical. This lens' update is mainly the AR coating, right?

Also, maybe I missed this @rayfor. The lens comes without a shutter so whoever buys one will need to get their own, right?

An air bulb is just a rubber bulb you can squeeze to blow air out, in this case through a hose leading to the fan. Blow air on the fan and it spins.

And I'm not interested in a new Hypergon as I have the original.

[rayfor]

Hello all,
does anyone have effectively receive the lens from "elevanfilm.com" I placed an order and they give me a tracking number but it says "Your package is waiting to be picked up by the carrier." since 7 days now !
And my mails get returned saying "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender ..... multiple delivery attempts failed"

Strange !

Hi, elevan is my friend and also my sales agent. As far as i known first 5 order has been dispatch last week, the rest will be sent this week as I did not know there would be this much order and just send some lenses to him last weekend. If you have any problem on ordering or shipping you can ask him on his website. I will also tell him about this.

[rayfor]

At least you have a tracking number. I am still waiting for one.

The rest will be sent this week as I did not know there would be this much order and just send some lenses to him last weekend.~~

[rayfor]

good!
but I didn't find it, could you provide a link to printables?
Thanks
J.Ph.

I've update the link to main thread

[Elevan]

Hello all,
does anyone have effectively receive the lens from "elevanfilm.com" I placed an order and they give me a tracking number but it says "Your package is waiting to be picked up by the carrier." since 7 days now !
And my mails get returned saying "Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender ..... multiple delivery attempts failed"

Strange !

Hi, I'm from Elevanfilm team. The parcel is still in transit to destination, I sent you an email about the transportation detail. Sorry for let you wait so long...

[mamaluke]

Hi, I'm from Elevanfilm team. The parcel is still in transit to destination, I sent you an email about the transportation detail. Sorry for let you wait so long...

I don't think I have receive the tracking number. My order is #E14, appreciate if you can contact me about parcel detail? Thanks a lot.

[Elevan]

I don't think I have receive the tracking number. My order is #E14, appreciate if you can contact me about parcel detail? Thanks a lot.

Hello, since your address is different from others, we will send your parcel out via SF-Express in tomorrow, I will send the tracking number to you via Email. Thank you very much.

[amansjeanphilippe]

I've update the link to main thread

I found it
Thanks
J.Ph.

[Kiwi7475]

Hello, since your address is different from others, we will send your parcel out via SF-Express in tomorrow, I will send the tracking number to you via Email. Thank you very much.

Hi, what about E7? I have a tracking number but it doesn’t seem to have started its journey…just “shipment info received”.

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello
mine has started to move since 27/11/2023...
I hope it will arrive before holidays.
J.Ph.

[Elevan]

;)That's great!! in my experience parcels arrive within 10 days after the tracking page being updated, hope it gets to you asap

[Elevan]

Hi, what about E7? I have a tracking number but it doesn’t seem to have started its journey…just “shipment info received”.

Hi Kiwi, the parcel is under transport to the sort facility. I'm sure the tracking page would updates within 2 days. I'm truly sorry for the delay, since it's the first time we shipped out so much parcel to oversea. I will keep it up to follow the parcel updates for you.

[Kiwi7475]

Hi Kiwi, the parcel is under transport to the sort facility. I'm sure the tracking page would updates within 2 days. I'm truly sorry for the delay, since it's the first time we shipped out so much parcel to oversea. I will keep it up to follow the parcel updates for you.

Thank you!

[Certain Exposures]

An air bulb is just a rubber bulb you can squeeze to blow air out, in this case through a hose leading to the fan. Blow air on the fan and it spins.

And I'm not interested in a new Hypergon as I have the original.

Oh ok, thanks. :)

[Corran]

Mine has apparently made it across the pond. Perhaps I'll get it next week. Unlikely to have anything to use it on for a while yet though, lol :).

I'll try to get it on my Wehman though.

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello
mine is arrived , very happy of that.
look like well made.
As described, there no air blower, just the silicon tube...
I fit on tube a "Pergear mini air blower" (www.pergear.com) model DDA-9 (I don't find it on web site but it's written on box). It is a "one way" blower with soft rubber noz that fit perfectly the tube.
On Ebay
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/315009476838
a model that look same.
J.Ph.

[ic-racer]

Mine has now made it to continental US. I'm looking forward to using it!

[Kiwi7475]

I want to see pics using it, folks!! [emoji16]

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello


I want to see pics using it, folks!! [emoji16]

pas tout de suite coco!
it will take to me a little time to integrate this lens "inside" Sinar-Copal...
The provided lens is a perfect copy of original, designed for shutterless needs (low speed plate).
To use with 100 asa film, exposure time for F32 are not long enough to use hat.
First level of integration is to redesign pump-port and "filter" lever
Second level will to integrate back filter screw and "B" shutter but that need a complete body rebuilt...
J.Ph.

[Kiwi7475]

Hello



pas tout de suite coco!
it will take to me a little time to integrate this lens "inside" Sinar-Copal...
The provided lens is a perfect copy of original, designed for shutterless needs (low speed plate).
To use with 100 asa film, exposure time for F32 are not long enough to use hat.
First level of integration is to redesign pump-port and "filter" lever
Second level will to integrate back filter screw and "B" shutter but that need a complete body rebuilt...
J.Ph.

Sure you can use film rated 100 asa! Just go into a building that is not greatly illuminated (church, cool building lobby, etc) and you won’t have a problem using a hat at F32. Or go anywhere outdoors and wait until close to sunset/sunrise. No need for shutters!

[Corran]

It's been a while since I read about this... what is the exposure time ratio between using the fan and not to get the center filter effect? In other words if at f/32 the exposure time is measured to be 10 seconds what is the amount of time with the fan moving vs. out of the way?

Mine is supposedly out for delivery. (Oops, wrong package, mine is in USA but waiting in Chicago apparently).

[Kiwi7475]

It's been a while since I read about this... what is the exposure time ratio between using the fan and not to get the center filter effect? In other words if at f/32 the exposure time is measured to be 10 seconds what is the amount of time with the fan moving vs. out of the way?

Mine is supposedly out for delivery. (Oops, wrong package, mine is in USA but waiting in Chicago apparently).

What I have read online is that 1/6 of the total exposure time is without the fan and the rest with the fan in the middle.
So for the 10sec exposure make sure you hit the 1.66667 seconds precisely!
Jokes aside, if it really is 1/6 then it seems like one could survive quite easily without bothering to remove the fan. But I've never used one so perhaps the difference is staggering.

[Kiwi7475]

What I have read online is that 1/6 of the total exposure time is without the fan and the rest with the fan in the middle.
So for the 10sec exposure make sure you hit the 1.66667 seconds precisely!
Jokes aside, if it really is 1/6 then it seems like one could survive quite easily without bothering to remove the fan. But I've never used one so perhaps the difference is staggering.

More online research on this topic seems to point to keeping the fan in position for at least three-fourths of the time.

https://chestofbooks.com/arts/photography/Practical-Photography-2/Part-II-Difficulties-Hypergon-Lens.html


by the way the illustration of how wide the lens is, is quite amazing:

https://chestofbooks.com/arts/photography/Practical-Photography-2/Part-I-Extreme-Wide-Angle-Photography-Part-2.html

and of course don't miss the dare at the bottom:

"Although a special camera is procurable through the Goerz people, anyone handy with tools can, in a few minutes, and with little expense, construct a camera box that will answer the purpose as well as the most expensive instrument."

[Mark Sawyer]

What I have read online is that 1/6 of the total exposure time is without the fan and the rest with the fan in the middle.
So for the 10sec exposure make sure you hit the 1.66667 seconds precisely!
Jokes aside, if it really is 1/6 then it seems like one could survive quite easily without bothering to remove the fan. But I've never used one so perhaps the difference is staggering.

I've heard the exposure with the fan should be 6 times or 8 times the original exposure. The big variable will be compensating for reciprocity failure, which varies from film to film, at these seconds-long exposures.

[Kiwi7475]

I've heard the exposure with the fan should be 6 times or 8 times the original exposure. The big variable will be compensating for reciprocity failure, which varies from film to film, at these seconds-long exposures.

That’s what I’m saying too, 6 to 1. However the reference above argues for 3/4 and 1/4, so 3 to 1.

Since reciprocity is not a linear chemical process with time, it is true that dealing with long exposures will be tricky. I wonder however how much fall-off in the corners is left if you always keep the fan.

Also how fast does the fan spin? I can imagine very short exposures may be a problem too as you get only a fractional spin.

[Corran]

Since the fan is blocking light, it seems to follow that just like a CF filter one would need to increase the total exposure time a commensurate amount rather than just spin the fan for a portion of the exposure...?

A fan factor rather than a filter factor? :)

[Kiwi7475]

I am sure that owners of original Hypergons (who have used it) can chime in here with their experience….

[Kiwi7475]

That’s what I’m saying too, 6 to 1. However the reference above argues for 3/4 and 1/4, so 3 to 1.

Since reciprocity is not a linear chemical process with time, it is true that dealing with long exposures will be tricky. I wonder however how much fall-off in the corners is left if you always keep the fan.

Also how fast does the fan spin? I can imagine very short exposures may be a problem too as you get only a fractional spin.

Ok just to be clear, what I’m saying is that you expose for the time you think the exposure should nominally be, without the fan. And then you expose an additional time that is 6-8 times the previous, now with the fan spinning. But since 6-8 times will put it in the long exposure regime, some reciprocity will have to be applied, according to the film used.

In practice the two steps were reversed since a second bulb was used to trigger flipping the star out of the way. So you exposed spinning first and then with the star out of the way.

And you have to remove the star because it completely blocks the center of the image. Can’t avoid that step.

[ic-racer]

This is what I was going to do.

With the fan 'up' and timer ready, place my hat over the lens, pull the dark slide, start spinning the fan while holding the dark slide, and remove the hat and start counting. When the 'edge' exposure is done, flip the fan down and keep counting until the end. Then put my hat over the lens again and insert the dark slide.

[Kiwi7475]

This is what I was going to do.

With the fan 'up' and timer ready, place my hat over the lens, pull the dark slide, start spinning the fan while holding the dark slide, and remove the hat and start counting. When the 'edge' exposure is done, flip the fan down and keep counting until the end. Then put my hat over the lens again and insert the dark slide.

How to do flip it without getting your hand/fingers into the field of view of the lens?

[Kiwi7475]

How to do flip it without getting your hand/fingers into the field of view of the lens?

Maybe I can answer my own question— the lever that flips open the star has a hole so a simple string can probably do the job by pulling on it at the right time…

Just need to be real gentle to make sure nothing shifts in the camera when you pull.

[ic-racer]

How to do flip it without getting your hand/fingers into the field of view of the lens?

As Kiwi7475 posted, I'm planning on attaching a string. Perhaps the string could be looped on the hose, so pulling the air hose will trigger the fan to drop.

Based on another post on the forums here, I just ordered a box of 50 the 1/2 price Fomapan 8x10 film that Freestyle is selling. Planning on using the whole box with this lens.

[rayfor]

244608244609
Refering to simulation, the exposure time on the edge should be 4.9 times to the center. Considering long exposure time, this ratio should be larger. Also, with simulation data, I was able to design a fan for single exposure with pure mathematics. Would anyone like to try this? Also I'd like to make few 200mm hypergon. This is the only hypergon I could not even find a picture of.

[Kiwi7475]

244608244609
Refering to simulation, the exposure time on the edge should be 4.9 times to the center. Considering long exposure time, this ratio should be larger. Also, with simulation data, I was able to design a fan for single exposure with pure mathematics. Would anyone like to try this? Also I'd like to make few 200mm hypergon. This is the only hypergon I could not even find a picture of.

I’d be more than happy to test the new fan.

Also interested in the 200mm if you end up producing it.

[Corran]

Rayfor, in my opinion the next focal length of choice would be 150mm.

The 210mm XL is out there and available (if expensive!) for ULF use, but the 150mm should cover up to 16x20 and so would be more exotic IMO. For instance on my 12x20...and still of use for 11x14 or 14x18.

I would be interested in trying your other fan too.

Can't wait to get the 75mm.

[Corran]

PS! It doesn't work on my Wehman LOL. Bellows won't compress enough. :rolleyes:

244627

I've noticed the lever to drop the fan doesn't seem to work without the lens pitched forward slightly. I wonder if that's why many photos I've seen from Hypergon lenses seem to be slightly aimed down from level...

I think I can tie a very small piece of string to the fan and tug it down...carefully! to not disturb the camera.

[Kiwi7475]

PS! It doesn't work on my Wehman LOL. Bellows won't compress enough. :rolleyes:

244627

I've noticed the lever to drop the fan doesn't seem to work without the lens pitched forward slightly. I wonder if that's why many photos I've seen from Hypergon lenses seem to be slightly aimed down from level...

I think I can tie a very small piece of string to the fan and tug it down...carefully! to not disturb the camera.

Yep, sometimes it doesn’t just go down if it’s not pitched down slightly… I’m thinking maybe using a really thin synthetic string (like a fishing line of 0.01”) attached to the lower bar of the star (the one that goes vertical once you mount the lens board on the camera) to pull it down.

(I think the original Hypergons had another bulb to get air to push on the star and move it out of the way, which is quite clever… maybe this was not in the 75mm if this is an exact replica?)

Also note how the star has a notch at the top for the lever (which ends like a flat screwdriver) to fit in. It’s not supposed to go all the way in (meaning if you keep the lens board flat and then grab the star with the lever, the end of the lever holds it past the notch, which is neither very stable nor makes the star leveled wrt the optics).

And yeah, compressing typical bellows to 7.5 cm is not easy!

[Corran]

I was also thinking about that area, maybe drilling a small hole in that lower bar for the string. Good idea on the fishing line, I have some very thin stuff here.

I'm going to try building a 75mm box camera with stuff I have here. I think if I can use the rear GG panel and bail back from my Wehman and use a 12x12 frame as a box along with some plywood sheets I should be able to make something, but I'm really not a wood worker. My mom is though and I'm visiting her for Christmas...

[Greg]

I once was in contact with a photographer (in possibly Vietnam?) who either he did or he had Chamonix modify one of their ULF Chamonix cameras to use with his Hypergon. Unfortunately lost his Email. If he is a member of this FORUM, I would love to know more. If not, Hugo could you chime in?

[Corran]

I once was in contact with a photographer (in possibly Vietnam?) who either he did or he had Chamonix modify one of their ULF Chamonix cameras to use with his Hypergon. Unfortunately lost his Email. If he is a member of this FORUM, I would love to know more. If not, Hugo could you chime in?

He posted pics of the camera here it seems:

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?80155-Goerz-Hypergon-75mm-w-fan-Use/page2

[rayfor]

Here's a form to create a single expose fan.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lcIDbbMv2_dbQ1mdoI3uAqwR9hEjmtsH/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=109706560617397722482&rtpof=true&sd=true

A-C columns are simulated illumination loss and equal aperture.
F column is exposure factor in EV(take center as 1)
G column is the angle to be blocked to create a fan.
H is G/Split Ratio, you can change this ratio to create the fan with more or less leaf.
x y z is the fan axis data you can import to your 3D modeling software.

Change variable in M-P column to change the size of your own fan.

f_edge is the aperture on the edge. Rad_edge is the angle connected to the edge of fan. Default value is 60 so the actually Aperture for expose is F_edge * Rad_edge/360 for entire picture.
d is the distance from the aperture to fan surface. The fan goes larger as d growth.
theta_edge is the max angle of view, default is 70(140/2).

[ic-racer]

I am glad to say the Hypergon does fit on a Shen Hao FCL810-AC with the bag bellows.
I can't actually see the front arms on the ground glass now (too dark), but holding a flashlight at that level it appears they will just clear or will only encroach slightly.

With the front standard plumb, the spinner falls down when released without issue.

244735

[ic-racer]

I see in the Goerz 1913 catalog it indicates: "A circular on the Hypergon is available by request." I wonder if anyone has a link to that document?

The 1913 catalog price, in 2023 dollars, would be $1,535.

[Steven Tribe]

I see in the Goerz 1913 catalog it indicates: "A circular on the Hypergon is available by request." I wonder if anyone has a link to that document?

The 1913 catalog price, in 2023 dollars, would be $1,535.

I don’t think this conversion is correct. I enclose the Hypergon page from a Swedish Catalogue 1910/11.
The 000 cost 108 kr. In the same catalogue, The 180mm standard Heliar cost 144 kr.
The last line in the photo says “Explanation is available”!
.

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello
which image circle we can expect with 75mm for landscape? (at F22 "wide open" and F32 "closed")
I start design an adaptation for use with Copal SINAR without vignetting...
Thanks
J.Ph.

[John Layton]

hmmm...am imagining a (salvaged?) roller-blind shutter - positioned so that the rollers themselves are above and below (or on each side of) the lens housing, so the lens would appear to be "sunken" into this shutter, with the plane of the curtains being very close to the rear of the lens. Make sense?

Edit: ...or maybe sink it into one of these?

244744

[ic-racer]

Some notes on the actual lens. The shipping caused some of the flanges and screws to loosen. So make sure to tightened up everything. Also, on mine the spinner is threaded slightly at an angle so the spinner wobbles a little. No big deal, just a little quality control issue.

I'll probably paint my spinner black.

Also, the image of the Shen-Hao is not exactly correct. The front standard needs to rotate back farther and the lensboard tilted forward to re-align it with the back.

The setup is as follows:

Tilt the back all the way to the limit and lock it. This is to get the bed out of the picture.
Release the sliding bed and push it all the way forward and lock it.
Attach the front standard to the farthest back screw mounting hole.
Set the rise to "20" and lock it, this centers the lens with the provided lensboard's offset hole.
Unlock the lensboard mid-axis tilt and tilt it forward just until the detent ball pops off the detent plate. Lock it there.
Now tilt the lensboard back until it is parallel to the film plane and lock it. This is easier to do with the back off as the bellows is in the way looking from the front.
Now it is all set and will focus even beyond infinity, in fact the lens can come all the way back and touch the film if not careful.

244745

[ic-racer]

My first image is not so impressive. The center of the negative has a big foggy blob.

I wonder if that is because the spinner is not black on the inside. I'm going to do some more tests. First I'll make some images with no spinner at all then with the spinner and see.

This is an exposure 6 seconds with spinner and 1 second without:

244770

[Mark Sawyer]

Yep, I'd suspect that shiny spinner.

[Mark J]

The foggy area is directional, so it's not just due to the spinner being shiny on the inside. Are you sure you have the correct split between with/without the spinner ?
Ok, also, does the arm that holds the spinner need blackening ?

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello
optically speaking, bright spinner and mirror aperture are a problem...
Do tests sun on you six
:p
J.Ph.

[Mark J]

Ok, also, does the arm that holds the spinner need blackening ?
I'll scratch that comment, the main arm for the spinner shouldn't be in the light path.
On your negative, is the centre of the lens axis central to the scene on the right, or is there an offset while you have that density test strip ?

[Mark Sawyer]

The foggy area is directional, so it's not just due to the spinner being shiny on the inside.

The light reflecting off the spinner is directional, though.

[Mark J]

Yes, good point - if for instance the sun was off to one side.

The easy way to de-bug this whole issue is to put the spinner in place, open the shutter, remove the ground glass panel and put your inside the rear of the camera looking for glints from the spider/spinner though the lens. A sunny day would be best.

[ic-racer]

The lens was centered on the 8x10 sheet. I did a second identical image with the same exposure sequence and the dark slide all the way out, but did not process that sheet yet.

[ic-racer]

Since the spinner is acting like a lens cap for the center of the field, it probably needs to be very close to the lens too.
This one looks to be almost touching.
244778

[ic-racer]

The shiny pieces were painted flat black taking care not to get paint on the ball bearing:

244795
244796

[ic-racer]

To improve the function of the aperture waterhouse stop, I added a 0.1mm 'wavy-washer' to the assembly, then applied blue loctite to the screw.

244797
244798
244799

[ic-racer]

Ready for more testing:
244800

[ic-racer]

At least once during dry runs, I dropped the lenscap while trying to insert it. So I beveled the inner edge and added a knob to make the cap easier to hold.
244801

[Kiwi7475]

At least once during dry runs, I dropped the lenscap while trying to insert it. So I beveled the inner edge and added a knob to make the cap easier to hold.
244801

Hey, where did you get that green cutie? I was thinking of adding something like that too.

[Kiwi7475]

The shiny pieces were painted flat black taking care not to get paint on the ball bearing:

244795
244796

Can you share what you used for paint?
Thanks!

[ic-racer]

Don't know why the images don't show anymore. I re-loaded them in post #159

[ic-racer]

Can you share what you used for paint?
Thanks!

I used Rustoleum flat black. I know it sticks well to metal.

I had been researching "Black 4.0" but I did not look that much different than other flat black paints I have used in this believable video below. All the other videos out there indicate it is so black you can't see it ha ha.

Apparently the manufacturer of nanotube black paint does not market it to consumers.

244820

[ic-racer]

Hey, where did you get that green cutie? I was thinking of adding something like that too.

I believe that is from one of the kids games (I found under the couch)...don't tell them..


I just went outdoors and did another test with the blackened spinner. 6+1 seconds f32.

In the Jobo now.

[ic-racer]

Just had a peek at the negatives. I'm processing the one from yesterday with the shiny spinner and the one from today with the black painted spinner. Same scene and exposure.

There is a difference! Images to come...

[ic-racer]

Much much improvement, but still about 1" of fog right at the center.

So, I still need to do some work on the inside of the spinner. I think it needs to be perfectly smooth where the screw sticks through.

244836

[John Layton]

...anyone have any pix to post - taken with this lens? No pressure...but would love to see some pix!

[ic-racer]

The negative on the left is with the shiny spinner.

The negative on the right is with painted spinner.

Close but still not there yet. There is still an area of fog in the middle. This could probably be corrected by making the inside of the spinner smooth like the vintage Hypergon pictured below.

244845
244846

[ic-racer]

It also appears that there should be a piece of spring steel here to help the spinner flip out:

244848

[Kiwi7475]

That’s quite a substantial improvement…

and I can’t help but ask, so the designers of this clone did not shoot with their own creation to make sure it would work properly?

[Tin Can]

Who is making and selling this New 75mm Hypergon Lens?

I am lost in the 15,000 posts

[rayfor]

That’s quite a substantial improvement…

and I can’t help but ask, so the designers of this clone did not shoot with their own creation to make sure it would work properly?

Actually we've released some test shot on August.
http://xhslink.com/5AnBFx
http://xhslink.com/2YSBFx

[rayfor]

The negative on the left is with the shiny spinner.

The negative on the right is with painted spinner.

Close but still not there yet. There is still an area of fog in the middle. This could probably be corrected by making the inside of the spinner smooth like the vintage Hypergon pictured below.

244845
244846

On our shots, the raw brass did not affect this much. Maybe it was the problem of the chemical we used on our final product to make these brass parts even more shinier. I will do some further test next weekend.

[ic-racer]

Actually we've released some test shot on August.
http://xhslink.com/5AnBFx
http://xhslink.com/2YSBFx

With the camera pointed up, was the spinner being used for those; it looks really dark on the edges, like the spinner was not used in the 6 to 1 ratio.
244853

[rayfor]

With the camera pointed up, was the spinner being used for those; it looks really dark on the edges, like the spinner was not used in the 6 to 1 ratio.
244853

the ratio is even greater than 6 to 1 in this case. It's hard to control reciprocity law failure on this photo paper. I've also tested on kodak ra4 paper last month which could provide a.better result in even lower price.

[ic-racer]

the ratio is even greater than 6 to 1 in this case. It's hard to control reciprocity law failure on this photo paper. I've also tested on kodak ra4 paper last month which could provide a.better result in even lower price.

Ok, that is pretty nice for a paper negative.

[ic-racer]

I sanded the interior of the fan to make it smooth.

244854

[ic-racer]

Then I re-painted it. With Krylon Flat Black to see if it is any better than the Rustoleum. I don't have any of the 'super black' paint at this time.

244855

[ic-racer]

I also added a little spring which works very well!
I made the spring out of Lexan.

244856

[Kiwi7475]

On our shots, the raw brass did not affect this much. Maybe it was the problem of the chemical we used on our final product to make these brass parts even more shinier. I will do some further test next weekend.

Hi, what do you mean by “much”? Some effect was visible?

Thanks, yes, it would be real nice if you could run a couple of tests with the final version, not just indoors as with the example you shared, but also outdoors in a bright day.

[ic-racer]

I inverted the photograph of my 8x10 negatives. The dramatic effect of blackening the spinner is easier to see:

244858

[Corran]

Thanks for testing and reporting on this ic. I'll have to do the same.

[ic-racer]

I'm very happy with this image.

The lens is very sharp but focus is critical. Also, alignment of the standards needs to be perfect.
You can get an idea of the angle of view by seeing how close I was to the guitars and how far away the appear in the negative.

244864
244865

[Kiwi7475]

I'm very happy with this image.

The lens is very sharp but focus is critical. Also, alignment of the standards needs to be perfect.
You can get an idea of the angle of view by seeing how close I was to the guitars and how far away the appear in the negative.

244864
244865

That looks really great… all the previous issues solved, seems like. Can I send you mine to do the same that you did for yours? As a paid service of course :-)

[rayfor]

Hi, what do you mean by “much”? Some effect was visible?

Thanks, yes, it would be real nice if you could run a couple of tests with the final version, not just indoors as with the example you shared, but also outdoors in a bright day.

I said much since it perform the same as my orignal hypergon. There is no coating on oringal hypergon which makes it's harder to notice this central contrast loss .
Also thanks for these tests, it seems the black print does help a lot in direct light.

[Ron in Arcata California]

Here is a shot made several years ago in Skagway Alaska with my original 75mm hypergon. The exposure if I remember right was one minute with the fan followed by 6 seconds full exposure. That would be a 10:1 ratio, it sorta worked for me on that cloudy rainy day still a bit uneven. The lens is reasonably sharp but not perfect.

244868

window detail 244867

[Ron in Arcata California]

This is very similar to the original air bulb that powered the fan. It has a second bulb in a net that helps feather the air pressure like the original. I added a small valve from an aquarium supply story to regulate the air even more. You don't need the thing spinning like an airplane propeller, but stopping and starting isn't good either. Again, this isn't perfect but with a little tinkering it worked for me.

I still might figure out a way to use a small air tank to keep it running. Trust me, using a squeeze bulb causes problems.
My best shots were made with the fan spinning before I removed the lens cap. You almost need to be an octopus to handle everything and not shake the camera in the process.

Walter Stern 206 Rubber Bulb 244869

It is available at several places just Google a search. I think I paid about $25 for mine.

[John Layton]

Ron that detail in the window looks plenty sharp...and the complete lack of distortion is surreal!

[Mark Sampson]

It seems that any truly special-purpose device like the Hypergon, new or old, will have a considerable learning curve.
But once you get it figured out----!!
Best of luck to all of you, who want to photograph everything in front of them on one sheet of film.
I look forward to seeing your results.

[ic-racer]

Here is a shot made several years ago in Skagway Alaska with my original 75mm hypergon. The exposure if I remember right was one minute with the fan followed by 6 seconds full exposure. That would be a 10:1 ratio, it sorta worked for me on that cloudy rainy day still a bit uneven. The lens is reasonably sharp but not perfect.

244868

window detail 244867

Wow that is great! Exposure is very even! Thanks for posting.

[ic-racer]

To free up an extra hand I have made a darkslide holder out of those clamps one places on potato chip bags to keep them fresh.

Also, in terms of the squeeze bulb and spinner, even though the makers of the reproduction lens have done an excellent job, it would be wise to make sure the nozzle position is optimized for maximum performance. I noticed that the air flow just barely clears the circular ring and if the circular ring impedes the flow just a little, the performance of the squeeze bulb falls off.

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello
is it easy to move the little tube to do adjustments?
Thanks
J.Ph.

[Kiwi7475]

Here's my first example with the new Hypergon. I followed ic-racer's cue and painted the fan in black -- I used Krylon Camouflage Ultra Flat because it's what I had on hand.

The shot is taken a few inches away from the table, at F32, exposure was 1 sec w/o fan and 5 sec w/ fan spinning. Film is Foma Retropan 320 (because it's what I had on hand that is cheap), developed with Rodinal 1:50 for 16min @ 20C. I apologize for the low quality of the pic -- this is just an inverted iPhone picture of the negative in its sleeve, but it shows how there's no reflection issues (I didn't take a shot prior to painting it though).

It's quite an undertake to use this lens. At a minimum aperture of F22 you need quite a bit of sunlight to focus accurately. But you don't want so much light that the exposure at F32 becomes very short (I use the cap as a shutter, so I wanted something in the at least ~1 sec range). Then you need to make sure everything is leveled in all 3 axis -- unless you want the distortions that would ensue. And obviously you need to operate it twice, with a without fan. I used the cap in between, and I'm happy to see my hands didn't show. I applied 2 coatings of paint so the fan was quite snug to the lens and removing it takes some effort (this will likely improve with use as the paint erodes around the contact edges).

245156

[mamaluke]

May I ask what is the cheapest setup possible to use this lens?

I have my Zone VI 8x10 camera with bellow press all the way to the tightest, but the lens is still far from getting infinity focused. I am thinking if there is any 3D printed camera out there available, but the widest possible is for 90mm.

I more or less buy this lens for the fun and experience of using it, rather than doing real serious photography, so a dedicated well built body is quite a non-sense to me.

[mamaluke]

To lens maker: I do think a simple 3D printed camera body for this lens will make it sells better. Consider make one. :)

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello


May I ask what is the cheapest setup possible to use this lens?

I have my Zone VI 8x10 camera with bellow press all the way to the tightest, but the lens is still far from getting infinity focused. I am thinking if there is any 3D printed camera out there available, but the widest possible is for 90mm.

I more or less buy this lens for the fun and experience of using it, rather than doing real serious photography, so a dedicated well built body is quite a non-sense to me.

Maybe this Ebay seller (https://www.ebay.fr/usr/mui.sui.2?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l2559) could do a 75mm version of his camera...
J.Ph.

[Mark Sampson]

I'm happy to se users posting pictures. That is ridiculously wide- yesterday I had my 4x5 out with my rarely-used 75mm lens, and the prospect of that focal length on 8x10 is is truly amazing.

[ic-racer]

I had to work over the holidays, so I was not able to use mine at all. I have a few free days, so I'll try and make some more images. I did get a squeeze bulb and I made a darkslide holder.

[rayfor]

To lens maker: I do think a simple 3D printed camera body for this lens will make it sells better. Consider make one. :)

There is one already. You can find it on the same web store

[Kiwi7475]

I'm happy to se users posting pictures. That is ridiculously wide- yesterday I had my 4x5 out with my rarely-used 75mm lens, and the prospect of that focal length on 8x10 is is truly amazing.

One day I’ll post some of the 4x5 shots I’ve taken at 25mm (pinhole). Now THAT is wide, lol!

[Kiwi7475]

To lens maker: I do think a simple 3D printed camera body for this lens will make it sells better. Consider make one. :)

I bought this, also mentioned by the new Hypergon maker: https://elevanfilm.com/product/eco810ss/

Its advantage over a 3D printed camera is that you get some movements (raise / fall with ease, front tilt also possible but hard to control). Not to mention you can swap the lens and go up to a 150 or 165mm lens, although I think of using this just for the hypergon.

[Peter De Smidt]

That's an interesting camera. Thanks for mentioning it!

[mamaluke]

There is one already. You can find it on the same web store

Thanks. Is it possible to purchase a 3D printed hypergon sinar lensboard with the camera? I don't see it possible at the store.

[mamaluke]

I bought this, also mentioned by the new Hypergon maker: https://elevanfilm.com/product/eco810ss/

Its advantage over a 3D printed camera is that you get some movements (raise / fall with ease, front tilt also possible but hard to control). Not to mention you can swap the lens and go up to a 150 or 165mm lens, although I think of using this just for the hypergon.

Think I will go for this, and yes I think I am using this just for that lens as you do. Thanks. :)

[CatSplat]

Maybe this Ebay seller (https://www.ebay.fr/usr/mui.sui.2?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l2559) could do a 75mm version of his camera...
J.Ph.

Would be reasonably easy to DIY modify one. On those cameras, the pinhole is drilled in a brownie pan, it's only held on by 8 screws so replacing the pan with a 3D printed cone for the 75mm would be a breeze. That said, the tripod mounts are super sketchy so I'd look into replacing them with Arca plates before you slap on a shiny new Hypergon.

[amansjeanphilippe]

Hello

@rayfor
please, can you give us distance from "flange" to image for infini landscape?
Thanks
J.Ph.

[ic-racer]

I have not done much with the lens as the film I bought to use with the lens was too fast.

Guess what I did here:

246616

[ic-racer]

Calculations finished.
I exposed the film with the sensitometer from the front and back side. Therefore, using the film base as a 'behind lens' neutral density filter.

The film base reduced exposure by about 3 stops.

So, tomorrow I'll load up some film holders with the film emulsion side away from the lens and over expose 3 stops.

[ic-racer]

Looks like the end of the screw did not take the paint well and is showing still.

Need to re-paint it again.

246877

[ic-racer]

Here is a 20 sec exposure with the fan in place for the entire exposure (fan not flipped down). So I can try to figure out how its fogging. Looks like the end of the screw is the culprit.

246878

247175

[ic-racer]

After considerable work, I was able to get a smooth surface on the inside of the spinner. My impression was the Loctite I used on the screw fouled the paint. So, no Loctite this time.
A few coats of primer and special sanding apparatus to make a smooth inner surface were used before the black paint.
Most recent negatives look good. Hope to get them printed soon.

247173
247174

[ic-racer]

Some recent negatives on my light table (negative images). Looks like the center abnormality is gone.

Also, the outdoor image is exposed at EI 25 through the back of the Retropan film.


247178
247179

[mamaluke]

I am troubled by this issue as well. Thinking if the lens maker can make new parts to address this issue as well as smoother aperture.

[ic-racer]

I had posted similar but not the same things over at APUG.

To fix the issue and smooth the inside of the spinner, I sprayed a few coats of primer. Then I made a sander like this from a washer, two sided tape and sand paper. I sanded a smooth inner finish. Then applied flat black paint.

It was more work than I expected, as I had to re-do it 3 times while experimenting as to what would work.

Anyway, once it is done, don't ever loosen the screw, as it will show again in the center.

247477

[arri]

What is the sense to make a lens like this? Why are the maker gives the rotating star a shiny golden colour? How stupid is this.
Sorry but I don´t take it seriously.
This is another try to use a famous name to sell cheap goods for much money.
The same we saw as some guys reactivating the Hugo Meyer name to sell a "new" Trioplan, Primoplan etc.

[ic-racer]

What is the sense to make a lens like this? Why are the maker gives the rotating star a shiny golden colour? How stupid is this.
Sorry but I don´t take it seriously.
This is another try to use a famous name to sell cheap goods for much money.
The same we saw as some guys reactivating the Hugo Meyer name to sell a "new" Trioplan, Primoplan etc.

Which serial no. Lens did you get? Did you contact the manufacturer, or try to get your money back?

If you have a better 75mm lens formula, I'd encourage you to bring it to market and see what people think!

[mamaluke]

What is the sense to make a lens like this? Why are the maker gives the rotating star a shiny golden colour? How stupid is this.
Sorry but I don´t take it seriously.
This is another try to use a famous name to sell cheap goods for much money.
The same we saw as some guys reactivating the Hugo Meyer name to sell a "new" Trioplan, Primoplan etc.


This is a bit different, if you aim for serious photography you should buy a 110 symmar XL. This stuff is a functional replica of a piece of photography history. Its like the world first practical ultra wide lens! And by the way I never use the original but my guess is it won't be optically much superior.

I bought it just to have an experience of using it, though I agree this stuff can be made better if the manufacturer actually shoot it for a while and make necessary improvments.

[Mark Sampson]

Like any number of modern LF devices, the inspired inventors/marketers don't understand the amount of engineering skill and time necessary to provide a finished, working product. Like the software industry, they put out a 'beta' product and expect their customers to do that work for them.
I have no doubt that Goerz, in the late 19th century, made sure that their Hypergon lens worked properly before putting it in their catalog; after all, their market was a group of demanding professionals who relied on the lens to provide salable photographs... and they had a reputation to uphold.
I salute ic-racer for figuring out the issues and making a workable version. I hope he and the other new Hypergon owners will provide us with some successful photos made with this very specialized lens!

[ic-racer]

Just got some more 11x14 paper, so this is one of the first prints.

247600

[ic-racer]

This is a bit different, if you aim for serious photography you should buy a 110 symmar XL.

Ha ha!

[John Layton]

Ic that looks like a great result! Thanks for having faith in this (vintage optic repro) project...being brave and thoughtful in making specific and meaningful tweaks - and sharing with us results along the way!

And yes, while I do understand the sentiment regarding the necessity for well established companies whose customers might rely on their products working reliably and "as advertised," I also understand very well (all too well!) what it takes for an individual, who may not have a well established reputation nor an association with an equally well established and reputable company, and who furthermore may not have the very deep, deep pockets which such an endeavor often requires...to forge ahead with a product like this out of pure passion and belief that it is nontheless and important and significant effort - even if the product itself might not be completely perfect on the initial go round!

Having said the above, I do also agree that this product could probably have undergone a more thorough regimen of testing prior to making it available to the rest of us. This could have been done very efficiently and without undue expense, although there would undoubtably be some time and expense involved in performing any necessary fixes "in house."