Most Stable/Solid 8X10???

[Cody Thomas]

Hi,

I am looking for an 8X10 to use outdoors and at long exposures (5-30 minutes). I don't have to have a "field camera" simply because they are lighter - I would rather have added weight and better stability. Considering all cameras, both used and new, wood and metal, could members please reply with recommendations for truly the best, most stable/durable 8X10. Please do not factor in expense, I would rather know what members feel is truly the best for this type of application.

Much appreciation,

Cody Thomas

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

A Calumet C-1?

[Frank Petronio]

Anything on top of a Gitzo 1504 Giant tripod or larger. Start with the support system. A second tripod can also be added for extreme work, plus wind shades and sandbags. That's what they do for time exposures with professional movie cameras.

After that, either one of the old school heavy Linhof monorails with "U" shaped, not "L" shaped standards, or a Sinar P with the heavy duty tripod block, or maybe a rigid metal flatbed like a Toyo 810M (the theory being the flatbed is more stable than a rail.) The Arca-Swiss Monolith with the full length rail clamp is plenty sturdy (the choice of rail being the factor).

Also consider the size of the lens and amount of bellows exposed to the environment. A really heavy lens is going to "settle" on the front standard, and a big shutter may vibrate. Or the whole assembly could "hum" with harmonic vibration if you get it set just so.

[Michael Kadillak]

The Linhof Color Karden is the most rigid 8x10 I have ever used. Unfortunately, it is no longer in production and can only be acquired in the used market. One of the most recent 8x10 cameras that fits the billing as intensely rigid is the Toyo 810M. I would agree with JG that the Calumet C-1 also fits the billing. If rigidity is the only criteria, I feel that metal is the better choice over wood. Just my $0.02.

Cheers!

[Bill_1856]

Weston (and others) made exposures which lasted for hours with rather rickety field-cameras such as the Kodak 2D and Deardorf. I think that it's the tripod and protection from the wind that actually counts.

[Ed K.]

If you don't require movements, and also if you can restrict yourself to a 240mm or 300mm lens, the Gowland Aerial 8x10 is totally rigid. On a sandbag atop a rock or other very stable thing, it can point straight up or at more conventional angles. Not expensive, not fancy, but possible to lock down for no movement at all. If you need a camera with more options, obviously it won't do. Works for me, I've done exposures from 5 minutes to 45 minutes with it, all tack sharp for things that didn't move in the scene. Personally, I use a beanbag with microbeads, which holds it still on just about anything. Atop a tripod, it is also good, and it weighs about as much as a DSLR - so not much pod needed. You might also consider building a one-off box camera which could have rise/fall at least, and the optimal focal length for your needs.

[bill_1041]

Another vote for Sinar P.

[Capocheny]

And a 3rd vote for a Sinar P or P2!

Cheers

[John Kasaian]

Ed Keck is right (of course theres no movements either!)

[Chris S]

I recently got the heavy Calumet C-1 black beast and stuck it on the big Ries tripod and head.Its not going anywhere.The winds out here in the Mojave desert can howl at times.Same in the Sierras.One minute its calm, the next you are holding onto your hat for dear life.I wanted something I wasn't going to have to baby.Its very easy and intuitive to use, at least for me, and the camera in near mint condition cost me 500.00 and that included 4 Fidelity holders, 4x5 back, and a 480mm Apo-Nikkor lens.I've seen em lately in so so condition go for a couple hundred less.

Chris

[bglick]

Where will the camera be for 5 - 30 minutes? If its outdoors, then I see the biggest battle being wind, and the best combat for wind is a heavy camera with NO bellows. As its the bellows that acts as a sail in the wind, which in turn rocks the camera. The Gowland 8x10 aerial is a great suggestion, or something similar. But you did not mention how flexibe you were on fl's of lenses. If you want nothing but wide angle, I would reccomend the new Fotoman 810 coming out, or the Grandview (not sure they are still made either) or the Bostick and Sullivan (not sure I got this name right). Bottom line, any camera with NO bellows that fits your lens needs.

Of course a rock solid tripod mount and and tripod as suggested above. What are you photographing as this may help us...

[Kirk Fry]

I have a 19 lb Majestic tripod (they sell real cheap on Ebay) with the crank head with a 2"X4" flat mounting plate. Solid as a rock. Highly recommended if you have someone carry it for you.

K

[Armin Seeholzer]

Sinar P or P2 with 2 strong tripods!

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'd say a Linhof monorail. Even the ones with L-shaped standards like the TL and Master GTL are really massive.

A Sinar P or P2 will be easier to find. I have a P.

[Scott Davis]

If you don't need LOTS of movements, try the old AGFA/Ansco 8x10. Very substantial tailboard bed design, massive front and rear standards, takes big fat lensboards so you can mount some pretty sizeable glass on it. You'll vibrate before it does.

Another vote for a Calumet C-1, with a caveat. Make sure that the tripod head surface is as large as the mounting block, or you will get vibration. The mounting block is about 6" x10", but in the interest of weight savings, they made the mounting block base hollow, so it has a small cross-girder type design, which significantly reduces your contact patch with a tripod head.

[Bob Salomon]

There is no camera more rigid then an 8x10 Linhof Master GTL.

That would mean that a 45 or 57 GTL converted to an 810 GTL without the 810 rear standard base and 90mm base head would be less stable. But they would be lighter by a couple of pounds.

There is no tripod other then the Linhof Heavy Duty Pro truly capable of holding a Master GTL 810 without vibration.

[tor kviljo]

The old version of Linhof Kardan Color in 8x10 is probably the most stable there is. This one uses a 50mm or so heavy gauge STEEL monorail and have very strong U-standards of heavy castings. It is VERY HEAVY, but more stable than any other LF camera I have ever come across (I owned the 5x7 briefly) and I am a Sinar Norma and Sinar P/P2 user myself..... (By the way: if you absolutely want the Sinar 8x10 : the older 8x10 Norma standard is more stable than the 8x10 conversion for the P/P2, even when used with the special P 8x10 standard bearer (which really only gives you a bit more shift + lockable swing))

You will find this Linhof Biggie in 8"x10" at Glennview: http://www.glennview.com/vcam.htm He have a complete setup for 4x5/5x7/8x10 for Us $$ 2000

Sorry to interfere with others recommendations, but I would personally stay away from considering any of the L-standard cameras: Horseman LX or Linhof TL/GTL: The L standard system have the weakness of having a long piece of metal between the two crucial stress-points of the standard - the tilt point where all load is taken up, and the rail-block where the load from the L -standard is given off to the rail. Since the L makes the system unsymmetrical when it comes to load-relief, contrary to the symmetrical load you get from a U standard design, the "L" becomes a torrosion-rod which will be prone to flex when put under load (the U standard will only be subjected to compression - i.e. will not be prone to flexing): Give a L-standard bearer some kilos of load - represented by a complete 8x10" GG back + 8"x10" cassette, and it will flex readily compared to a levelled system with U standard or Sinar P type mechanics, where all weight is directed straight down to main bearing underneat format frame - not directed unsummetrical to one side of load and then through 30cm of L-shaped aluminium rod to take up point on rail

For tripods: I recommend the heavy type aluminium surveyors tripod equipped with a modern Linhof Neigkopf (I belive B&H calls this Linhof levelling pan/tilt head), or the bigger version of the old neigkopf /the older were made in different sizes, the biggest thrives with the big Kardan setup. The bigger surveyors tripods is made to service heavy high-magnifying (30x) theodolites with laser-rangefinders, so called Total-stations, and these demand high degree of stability, much more so than in photo, and it is also much cheaper than anything else. Surveyors being people themselvs, these tripods are now remarkably light yet very strong and stability easily outperforms the more sexy but hideously expensive duraluminium Sachtler ENG tripods which in its turn outperformed (weight/stability issue) the Linhof Heavy Duty Pro decades ago....

So if look is not everything - go for a 8x10 Kardan color, a surveyors tripod and a Linhof Neigkopf...

I forgot: For this setup - get yourself a mule, an extraordinary strong back or a SUV.....

[Frank Petronio]

The system will only be as stable as the weakest link. Bolting a heavy duty tripod head to concrete pilings sunk to bedrock would be the ultimate ;-)

[giancatarina]

the biggest one : 8x10 kardan color... a real monster !
otherwise sinar P, P2 or arca swiss Mline are very good option.
But to be honest, i'm happy with my sinar norma, sinar 2D head and gitzo carbon 13...
Inj windy condition, you can always use an umbrella for the wind !

[Gregory Gomez]

What you really want is an 8x10 camera that will be stable and rigid enough.

Yes, you could buy a Linhof or a Sinar monorail, but they will be expensive, even used, and they will be too massive.

Have you considered a Toyo View all metal field camera? It is very rigid and it weighs only 15 pounds. It's affordable too, I suppose, at $4,500. You can buy a new one at B&H Photo.

(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/63768/TO810M2/REG/25)