Ilford Printing Paper Costs Blowout.

[Michael Kadillak]

Noticed the other day that a 250 sheet of Ilford double weight glossy warm tone 8x10 printing paper jumped dramatically from $358 to $498 a box where their classic 250 sheet box of 8x10 printing paper (glossy and also double weight) is still selling for $354. Really?

Is this an issue of supply and demand (ie people buying far more warm tone and Ilford being able to get away with it) or is something else going on? The double weight paper of both products has to be the same so what am I missing here?

Fortunately I have been printing with the classic paper because this is an unfortunate development (no pun intended).

[interneg]

what am I missing here?

MGWT has always been markedly more expensive than regular MG Classic. Classic sells more than WT, and WT may also have components/ manufacturing steps that are significantly more expensive/ energy intensive (and if custom organic chemicals are required, they make silver look cheap).

[Oren Grad]

What interneg said. The only exceptions I've seen have been temporary artifacts of variable stock turnover at a given retailer after Harman has implemented a general price increase.

[Duolab123]

Fomatone is sold at a premium as well.

[Drew Wiley]

Everything is going up. But MGWT is a higher quality product than Classic, and undoubtedly more expensive to make. I'm running low on it in 16X20, but have a sizable stash of old EMaks 20X24 graded, so might to able to forestall another MGWT purchase for awhile.
Bergger warmtone is similar, and packaged only 25 sheets per box, so around half the price per box of MGWT, but seems to be temporarily unavailable at the moment. I use quite a bit of MG Cooltone too, which is priced the same as Classic. Classic is nice, but not the superstar that MGWT is, especially when it comes to toning potential and sheer DMax.

[Hans Berkhout]

Ilford WT has 3 light sensitive layers instead of two, if I remember well. This may explain part of the higher (production)cost compared to Ilford MG Classic

Bob Carnie is an expert on this paper, thanks for your comments over the years on this forum Bob.

[Michael Kadillak]

Ilford WT has 3 light sensitive layers instead of two, if I remember well. This may explain part of the higher (production)cost compared to Ilford MG Classic

Bob Carnie is an expert on this paper, thanks for your comments over the years on this forum Bob.

Thanks for the comments guys. The three light sensitive layers instead of two makes sense so thanks for the detail Hans. Although the price increase bites, the reality of the situation looking at it from an alternative perspective is Ilford is still making WT. Just like the increase in film cost the operative word in the new world of analog photography is "efficiency". Making optimal use of the materials we have access to.

[Chuck Pere]

This is what Ilford says in their tech bulletin:
MULTIGRADE papers are coated with an emulsion which is a mixture of three separate emulsions. Each emulsion is a basic blue sensitive emulsion to which is added different amounts of green sensitising dye. Thus, part of the mixed emulsion is sensitive mainly to blue light, part to blue light
with some sensitivity to green light and part to both blue and green light.

So it appears that there is no difference between Classic and Warmtone in number of emulsions.

[Oren Grad]

FWIW, I'll add that MG Warmtone is my favorite Ilford paper, by a fair margin, in both FB and RC (though the two are quite different!). My printing volume is low enough that the price hasn't been a big issue, but as it keeps increasing I'll just need to pay more careful attention to efficiency, as Michael says.

[bob carnie]

Ilford WT has 3 light sensitive layers instead of two, if I remember well. This may explain part of the higher (production)cost compared to Ilford MG Classic

Bob Carnie is an expert on this paper, thanks for your comments over the years on this forum Bob.

That is a nice compliment, thank you Hans .. when Ilford introduced this wonderful paper, Sample kits were sent to printers world wide approx 1994 or 95 era, if I can remember correct we got 5 boxes each that contained about 10 sheets of 8 x 10 paper, the only reference was the colour of the box. We were asked to give our straight out opinion of which paper was in our opinion the best paper. I chose the red box as did most of the printers and for a long time Ilford used a reddish box for this paper.

I have been split printing from day one this paper was released, many people have different opinions and ways of using this paper... Some use 0 and 5 - I do not use 0 unless I want to flash in some density in the highlights , I have found that using 0 has a solarizing effect on the blacks with this paper .... so for me in my darkroom I use a low contrast and 5 contrast method of printing, If I am using my Devere enlarger which is dichroic I will adjust the aperture and timer to have around a 8 second to 20 second base low filter exposure. then I will hit the timer without adjusting the time or aperture to balance out the contrast that is determined by the ORIGINAL scene. If its a low contrast ORIGINAL scene then I could hit the timer with 200 magenta two, three , or four times to get the over all contrast. When setting the low contrast , once again the ORIGINAL scene lighting ratio is determined , so a bright sunny day with deep shadows I may start with grade 1/2 or equivalent magenta, and I will make a light and slightly soft print to get as much highlight detail in my print, then I will hit the timer with 200 magenta or grade 5 filter as many times to accomplish the overall print I need.
By keeping my time around 10 seconds for the initial exposure I can determine dodge and burns by % of the overall time in the low contrast hit and the high contrast hit. If the ORIGINAL scene is low and flat lighting ratio then I will start with a higher filter or magenta number but still make a light and soft initial exposure then hit the timer with the higher contrast setting as many times I think needed.

Then when I am happy I will make two or three prints more with the same dodge burn , contrast settings but adjust the timer 1 or 2 seconds up or down so the next day I have three prints with the same PLAN but slightly different densities and I let the client or myself pick the image they like.

We do this with enlarge digital negatives as well via contact , it is obvious that the dodge and burn is harder. My young assistant has never made enlarger prints YET but she has done many shows with me and the fact she does not know the difference between dodging and burning on an enlarged contact verses an optical enlarger print is good, she is learning the hard way and when she starts putting negs in the enlarger she will see how easier the dodge and burn actually is.

I hope this makes a bit of sense to some using split printing methods.

[Serge S]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting.
When I get my darkroom finally up & running, I will try your method.


That is a nice compliment, thank you Hans .. when Ilford introduced this wonderful paper, Sample kits were sent to printers world wide approx 1994 or 95 era, if I can remember correct we got 5 boxes each that contained about 10 sheets of 8 x 10 paper, the only reference was the colour of the box. We were asked to give our straight out opinion of which paper was in our opinion the best paper. I chose the red box as did most of the printers and for a long time Ilford used a reddish box for this paper.

I have been split printing from day one this paper was released, many people have different opinions and ways of using this paper... Some use 0 and 5 - I do not use 0 unless I want to flash in some density in the highlights , I have found that using 0 has a solarizing effect on the blacks with this paper .... so for me in my darkroom I use a low contrast and 5 contrast method of printing, If I am using my Devere enlarger which is dichroic I will adjust the aperture and timer to have around a 8 second to 20 second base low filter exposure. then I will hit the timer without adjusting the time or aperture to balance out the contrast that is determined by the ORIGINAL scene. If its a low contrast ORIGINAL scene then I could hit the timer with 200 magenta two, three , or four times to get the over all contrast. When setting the low contrast , once again the ORIGINAL scene lighting ratio is determined , so a bright sunny day with deep shadows I may start with grade 1/2 or equivalent magenta, and I will make a light and slightly soft print to get as much highlight detail in my print, then I will hit the timer with 200 magenta or grade 5 filter as many times to accomplish the overall print I need.
By keeping my time around 10 seconds for the initial exposure I can determine dodge and burns by % of the overall time in the low contrast hit and the high contrast hit. If the ORIGINAL scene is low and flat lighting ratio then I will start with a higher filter or magenta number but still make a light and soft initial exposure then hit the timer with the higher contrast setting as many times I think needed.

Then when I am happy I will make two or three prints more with the same dodge burn , contrast settings but adjust the timer 1 or 2 seconds up or down so the next day I have three prints with the same PLAN but slightly different densities and I let the client or myself pick the image they like.

We do this with enlarge digital negatives as well via contact , it is obvious that the dodge and burn is harder. My young assistant has never made enlarger prints YET but she has done many shows with me and the fact she does not know the difference between dodging and burning on an enlarged contact verses an optical enlarger print is good, she is learning the hard way and when she starts putting negs in the enlarger she will see how easier the dodge and burn actually is.

I hope this makes a bit of sense to some using split printing methods.

[Hugo Zhang]

Is it true that Ilford has discontinued their Galeris FB graded paper?

[Sal Santamaura]

Is it true that Ilford has discontinued their Galeris FB graded paper?

Yes.

[PhillyPete]

That is a nice compliment, thank you Hans .. when Ilford introduced this wonderful paper, Sample kits were sent to printers world wide approx 1994 or 95 era, if I can remember correct we got 5 boxes each that contained about 10 sheets of 8 x 10 paper, the only reference was the colour of the box. We were asked to give our straight out opinion of which paper was in our opinion the best paper. I chose the red box as did most of the printers and for a long time Ilford used a reddish box for this paper.

I have been split printing from day one this paper was released, many people have different opinions and ways of using this paper... Some use 0 and 5 - I do not use 0 unless I want to flash in some density in the highlights , I have found that using 0 has a solarizing effect on the blacks with this paper .... so for me in my darkroom I use a low contrast and 5 contrast method of printing, If I am using my Devere enlarger which is dichroic I will adjust the aperture and timer to have around a 8 second to 20 second base low filter exposure. then I will hit the timer without adjusting the time or aperture to balance out the contrast that is determined by the ORIGINAL scene. If its a low contrast ORIGINAL scene then I could hit the timer with 200 magenta two, three , or four times to get the over all contrast. When setting the low contrast , once again the ORIGINAL scene lighting ratio is determined , so a bright sunny day with deep shadows I may start with grade 1/2 or equivalent magenta, and I will make a light and slightly soft print to get as much highlight detail in my print, then I will hit the timer with 200 magenta or grade 5 filter as many times to accomplish the overall print I need.
By keeping my time around 10 seconds for the initial exposure I can determine dodge and burns by % of the overall time in the low contrast hit and the high contrast hit. If the ORIGINAL scene is low and flat lighting ratio then I will start with a higher filter or magenta number but still make a light and soft initial exposure then hit the timer with the higher contrast setting as many times I think needed.

Then when I am happy I will make two or three prints more with the same dodge burn , contrast settings but adjust the timer 1 or 2 seconds up or down so the next day I have three prints with the same PLAN but slightly different densities and I let the client or myself pick the image they like.

We do this with enlarge digital negatives as well via contact , it is obvious that the dodge and burn is harder. My young assistant has never made enlarger prints YET but she has done many shows with me and the fact she does not know the difference between dodging and burning on an enlarged contact verses an optical enlarger print is good, she is learning the hard way and when she starts putting negs in the enlarger she will see how easier the dodge and burn actually is.

I hope this makes a bit of sense to some using split printing methods.

Great info and thanks Bob, I'll give this a try now that my darkroom is back up and running.

[bob carnie]

Great info and thanks Bob, I'll give this a try now that my darkroom is back up and running.

Hi Pete

I try not to think of it as 0 and 5 split but rather low filter and high filter which in my case is determined by the Original Scene and of course the type of development of the negative.

[Bill Burk]

Is it true that Ilford has discontinued their Galeris FB graded paper?

In a panic, I just snapped some up off eBay. 11x14 little less than a dollar a sheet.
For better or worse at this rate I'll take my chances.

[Hugo Zhang]

In a panic, I just snapped some up off eBay. 11x14 little less than a dollar a sheet.
For better or worse at this rate I'll take my chances.

Just be careful with papers from eBay. Unlike film, they don't have an expiration date on their boxes. More than half of the photo papers I got from eBay were unusable. Threw them away.

It is interesting that the last batch of Ilford Galerie paper had the word "Galerie" omitted and no grade mark either. Just ILFORD ILFOBROM FB GLOSSY. But same IGFB31K.

[Drew Wiley]

The last of the Galerie bromide paper was Gr 3. The local camera store had piles of 11X14 boxes a couple years ago, both Gr 2 and Gr 3, but so old that nobody wanted it. I sure didn't. It's been about 5 yrs since I printed on relatively fresh 16X20 gr 3. An excellent paper, but neither my favorite at any time, nor as versatile for me as a number of other papers, with my favorite graded versions being Seagull G, Brilliant Bromide, and Agfa Portriga. I still have a stash of EMaks graded, another superb product. But Galerie was one of the first papers I ever used, and was deservedly around for a long time.

[Bill Burk]

Just be careful with papers from eBay. Unlike film, they don't have an expiration date on their boxes. More than half of the photo papers I got from eBay were unusable. Threw them away.

So far my luck has been good. Of all the Galerie paper I have bought online, only one box had any significant fog. And it was a box the seller threw in for free.
If it has fog, I'll use it for something.

[Hugo Zhang]

So far my luck has been good. Of all the Galerie paper I have bought online, only one box had any significant fog. And it was a box the seller threw in for free.
If it has fog, I'll use it for something.

I have just checked ebay and your papers seem good. Good deal!

[Roberto Nania]

it seems that Ilford wants to mimic Kodak about price policy: one 120 roll of HP5 or FP4 jumped from 7€ to 8.5€ in less than one year. What's going on in their heads?
I really start to consider to skip Ilford and go for Foma, even at the expense of shadows detail.

[Tin Can]

I am going 8x10 AZO contact prints

Got 2 500 sheet boxes

Free above a bar with broken windows

Very cold

Detroit

And 3 Elwood

10 years ago





Love those Elwoods

[tgtaylor]

I've been using 8x10 exclusively for alternative printing (salt, kallitypes, etc) for 10+ years now. But recently I started back printing silver gelatin using Ilford's 5x7 Satin RC paper and am quite impressed with the results. Sure, the prints are “small” compared to 8x10 or larger, but they are also jewel-like and can be admired close-up hand-held or in a scrapbook. Plus, they are cheap! - about 50¢ a sheet compared to 1$ or more for other sizes which makes it much more reasonable for folks like me that are on a fixed budget. Last month I decided to replace the artwork on one wall with a 16x20 print matted to 22x28 with a 6x7 negative that I shot in Yosemite. Once I got a good 5x7 print I used the Ilford exposure meter for up-sizing to 16x20 and placed a 5x7 sheet over the section that I deemed important. The resulting print on a $6 16x20 sheet of paper came out perfect. Of course, the expense of framing the print using 4 and 8-ply museum board, OP-3 AR1 acrylic and a Nielsen frame dwarfed the printing expense but that is to be expected.