Are Graflex Grafmatic film holders more trouble than they're worth?

[Certain Exposures]

These things:

237511
Source: Mercury Camera Article (http://mercurycamera.com/backs/guide-to-graflok-45-backs/)

I'd like to try one. I'm split on whether or not they introduce more opportunities for an error or less.

Let me know if there's already a great thread dedicated to this. I didn't see one.

[BrianShaw]

To me they are more trouble than they are worth.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I usually use Grafmatics for 4x5. They do take a little getting used to, but I would not say they are problematic at all if they are in good condition. They have a few advantages like less volume than normal double sheet holders. They also reduce the need to manage the dark slide while it’s pulled, which can be an advantage. The main disadvantage is I tend to shoot more sheets when using them. Sometimes it’s because I have more film with me, and sometimes it’s because I take the shot when I would have returned the dark slide for some reason, but with the Grafmatic it’s a minor hassle to cycle through the 6 sheets to get back to the right spot in the stack.

[sharktooth]

I really like them for size and speed, but they have one major drawback that you need to be aware of.

When you pull the dark slide on a Grafmatic, your film is unprotected after you push the dark slide back in. In order to protect the film for the next shot, you need to advance to the next sheet.
This becomes a problem if you pull the dark slide, but then decide you don't want to take the shot after all. You can push the dark slide back in, but your film is still "out". At that point you can advance to the next sheet, and thereby save that sheet of film, but now it's going to be a problem keeping track of it later.

To avoid this issue, you need to commit to the shot when you pull the dark slide, so make very sure you really want the shot first.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I really like them for size and speed, but they have one major drawback that you need to be aware of.

When you pull the dark slide on a Grafmatic, your film is unprotected after you push the dark slide back in. In order to protect the film for the next shot, you need to advance to the next sheet.
This becomes a problem if you pull the dark slide, but then decide you don't want to take the shot after all. You can push the dark slide back in, but your film is still "out". At that point you can advance to the next sheet, and thereby save that sheet of film, but now it's going to be a problem keeping track of it later.

To avoid this issue, you need to commit to the shot when you pull the dark slide, so make very sure you really want the shot first.
You can cycle through the six sheets to get back to the same number. This must done on the camera with the lens shutter closed.

[popdoc]

Have several of them, Use them regularly. Great for travel/backpacking. Can take a little while to get the hang of it. Practice a lot prior to loading film in them and going out shooting. In the size footprint of three regular holders, I can carry three different kinds of film, six of each. Love that flexibility and efficiency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mark Sampson]

I struggled with Grafmatics at several times in the last 30 years. Gave up each time. Why?
1) The holders and septum must be in perfect working order. 50+ years on, many are not.
1a) You must be very careful in your practice not to screw something up, mechanically or picture-wise.
2) The frame counter sticking into the image ruined several pictures. (Yes, I know they can be removed)
3) The heavy mechanical action required to change films often caused my camera to shift on the tripod. (not the holder's fault). I do think they were meant for people shooting Speed Graphics hand-held, where this would not be an issue.
4) The weight and space saving wasn't worth the hassle.
Of course these are personal opinions; your results may vary, and it's worth remembering that Grafmatics were in production for many years, and people have used them successfully for decades longer than that.

[Havoc]

I gave up on them. I tought it would be a nice system as I can just fit 6 sheets in my tank. But I seem to mess up every time ending with ruined shots.

[Conrad . Marvin]

I’ve been using the same grafmatic holders for decades the first four since the mid 80s and added to them in the next ten or so years and never lost any shots.

[Tin Can]

I bought NOS Japanese clone from Japan

works best

[Alan9940]

I have 6 Grafmatics that I've used for many years, and I only ever had one failure; and I really think that one was my fault. If the septums are flat and straight, film is loaded properly into a septum, and they're kept clean, you should not experience any failures. The space saving is negligible in that you're only getting a couple of more shots--the Grafmatic eliminates one conventional film holder. One major advantage that I enjoy with the Grafmatic is that I never have to worry about light entering from the slider side of the holder and fogging my film. I've had blazing Arizona sun directly on the slider side of the Grafmatic and never had an issue; can't say the same for my conventional film holders.

[Jim Noel]

They are great if you take the time, probably 3-5 minutes, to read the manual and follow it precisely. If you can't do that, they will soon be junk.

[j.e.simmons]

Hold the camera level when you are working the slides. If you point the camera down gravity can make the septums jam.

[Chauncey Walden]

And then there are the 10 shot Kinematics;-)

[Renato Tonelli]

And then there are the 10 shot Kinematics;-)

Have you used it? I have never seen one and been curious about it.

[jnantz]

they have that annoying frame counter wheel, thankfully it can easily be removed with tin snips (how I removed mine).

[Tin Can]

in a word

YES

[Conrad . Marvin]

I have a small box of counter wheels somewhere that I removed so many years ago that I can’t remember how I took them out, but I did use a screwdriver.
And “yes” for the same comments that Tin Can answered yes for.

[Kevin Crisp]

They certainly work best when cycled level and in landscape mode. I use them often, but I carry a changing bag just in case. I've never needed the changing bag. If you get one with bent septums, the metal seems uniquely brittle and is very hard to straighten properly. Best tool for attempting this is a table knife.

When I have a trouble-free 6 out of one, I put a pencil check mark on the white space on the back. Nearly all have been 100% reliable.

[Certain Exposures]

Thanks everyone. I'll keep reading replies later. So far I'm inclined to stick to regular holders because I like the flexibility of carrying around an extra type of film and allegedly these don't save that much space.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053313920_3dd5c76194_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2niLQHE)4x5 SInar Norma Handy (https://flic.kr/p/2niLQHE) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

My 4x5 SInar Norma Handy with 65mm F8 Super Angulon, Schneider Center Filter 65/8, and K2 Yellow Series 8 filter. The colored filter presses tightly against the center filter, it's the combination I want to use. Six 4x5 Graphmatic film backs, these will be loaded with HP5+ and 400TMAX 4x5 film. Vivitar 283 strobe with Photoflex XTC mini softbox. Should be interesting for closer in shooting. We will see. A hyperfocal focus chart is printed on the back of each Graphmatic for quick focus setting

Five Graphmatics just fit in my Swedish Military Medical Bag (kinds like a camo gasmask bag). What I like is the rapid firepower.

[Chauncey Walden]

Have you used it? I have never seen one and been curious about it.

In regards to Kinematics, the answer is yes. At one time I had 3 (all I had ever come across) but a good friend talked me out of one. I also have 6 or 8 Grafmatics but only 1 two sided filmholder (double darkslide to our Brit friends). The Kinematics are not as smooth in use as the Grafmatics but for 10 shots vs 6 they are worth the effort. Both the Grafmatics and Kinematics require septa in good shape (flat, good grooves, and lubed - I use Ice Wax a bicycle chain lube just on the friction prone areas). Loading requires that the film is inserted all the way with the far end of the film fully inside the back groove. In loading the Grafmatics the little pop out jobby (a technical term!) must be pushed out of the way before inserting the septa or else you will induce bends. Some spring backs don't allow enough movement to accept the Kinematics. In working the slides on both it is a good idea to keep the filmholder firmly gripped to the camera back. The film counter on the Grafmatics is handy and you just have to remember it is there and you fill lose a little bit of that edge of the film. If you have trouble remembering that just take a pencil and put a line on the ground glass to allow for it.

[rfesk]

One nice thing about Grafmatics is that they have grooves to allow them to be attached to cameras with Graflok locks.
Very handy when shooting handheld - the groundglass back can be removed for lighter weight plus the Graflok slides hold the Grafmatics
tightly against the camera.

[Renato Tonelli]

In regards to Kinematics, the answer is yes. At one time I had 3 (all I had ever come across) but a good friend talked me out of one. I also have 6 or 8 Grafmatics but only 1 two sided filmholder (double darkslide to our Brit friends). The Kinematics are not as smooth in use as the Grafmatics but for 10 shots vs 6 they are worth the effort. Both the Grafmatics and Kinematics require septa in good shape (flat, good grooves, and lubed - I use Ice Wax a bicycle chain lube just on the friction prone areas). Loading requires that the film is inserted all the way with the far end of the film fully inside the back groove. In loading the Grafmatics the little pop out jobby (a technical term!) must be pushed out of the way before inserting the septa or else you will induce bends. Some spring backs don't allow enough movement to accept the Kinematics. In working the slides on both it is a good idea to keep the filmholder firmly gripped to the camera back. The film counter on the Grafmatics is handy and you just have to remember it is there and you fill lose a little bit of that edge of the film. If you have trouble remembering that just take a pencil and put a line on the ground glass to allow for it.

Thanks for the info. Ten sheets in one holder sounds great.

I have and use Grafmatics. I use them when I am hiking to save space in the pack. Recently I bought a set of Septums just in case mine get bent. I had a problem with one of them not closing; some dirt had gotten into the groves. Cleaned it out and lubricated it lightly.

[GG12]

Depends on your level of concentration and ability to remember and work carefully with them. If yes, they can be fine. I prefer a simpler answer, as an infrequent shooter, rusty and sometimes in a bit of a fog. They aren't light, and while they save space, they aren't quite as brilliant an answer as hoped for. Still, they have advantages.

[John Layton]

Have often thought about trying out a Grafmatic...but from what I can glean from other's experience (plus my own tendency to screw stuff up repeatedly) - I could only see using this with a hand-held camera.

[warpath]

Thanks for the info. Ten sheets in one holder sounds great.

I have and use Grafmatics. I use them when I am hiking to save space in the pack. Recently I bought a set of Septums just in case mine get bent. I had a problem with one of them not closing; some dirt had gotten into the groves. Cleaned it out and lubricated it lightly.

I have a 2-3 kinematics here, one's broken. The kinematics are not as robust as the grafmatics. 10 sheets in one holder is nice though

[rjbuzzclick]

I have a Grafmatic for my Speed Graphic but don't really use it much. With a shoulder bag handy I don't find swapping film holders all that difficult.

Conversely, I use a couple of 12-sheet Graflex bag mags with a Graflex Series B 4x5 SLR and it makes a huge difference in my enjoyment with that camera.

[PRJ]

Grafmatics are great but you have to keep them in shape. Septums need to be straight and hold the film tight. If you pinch the ends a bit then the film will be held firmly. You don't want a sheet to come out. That causes a jam even if it slips a little. Easy to avoid though. You also need to keep the sliding parts lubed. Simple to do with wax or bicycle chain wax, which has teflon in it.

The advantages of the Grafmatic have already been mentioned except for one. Grafmatics hold the film FLAT and in the exact right plane. Regular film holders have a bit of slop. If you do long exposures or point the camera down then Grafmatics have a distinct advantage. I have about 30 holders and six Grafmatics. The only downside with Grafmatics is you pretty much have to finish all six sheets before you develop otherwise you can screw up which sheets have been exposed. And of course if you put a sheet in place but don't take the image you need to cycle through all the sheets again to get back in place.

When I use Grafmatics I put them under the spring back like a normal holder, then put the Graflok clamps on as well. Never had a slip doing that.

And get rid of the wheel. I used a pair of pliers on all of mine and just ripped them out. Those wheels stick out way too far.

[Alan9940]

And get rid of the wheel. I used a pair of pliers on all of mine and just ripped them out. Those wheels stick out way too far.

The wheel is not difficult to remove without damaging it, just in case you want/need to reinstall it.