Dry Mount Tissue

[Iga]

Hi all.
I was using Dry-Lam tissue for years, but unfortunately my usual suppliers do not stock it anymore for some reason.
So, I am looking for alternative brands ( sheets, not rolls ) and interested in your experience / opinions.
Thanks in advance

[Michael R]

Good question. I have a bunch of Seal/Bienfang Buffermount and Colormount which will last me a long time but I don’t think they are available anymore. Not sure what the current alternatives are. Buffermount was supposedly preferable to Colormount because it was removable, but I always found it harder to use because it bonded as it cooled. John Sexton recommended Colormount at the time so I started using that, but kept the Buffermount in case. When I first started out I used Kodak dry mount tissue.

Curious to know what products have replaced these (if any).

[bob carnie]

I use Drytac. TR42300 3mil premium dry mounting tissue. I am assuming you can get this product in spain

[Iga]

Thanks Bob, but I can't see it in sheets, rolls only...

[xkaes]

I have a bunch of Seal/Bienfang Buffermount and Colormount which will last me a long time but I don’t think they are available anymore.

Let's not get people's blood pressure up any higher. Even with people going digital, they still need to dry-mount prints. Seal Colormount seems to be available everywhere. It's not always been in the cut sizes I wanted, but that's why I have some big long rolls.

[bob carnie]

Thanks Bob, but I can't see it in sheets, rolls only...

Thats how I buy it and cut it down

[Michael R]

Let's not get people's blood pressure up any higher. Even with people going digital, they still need to dry-mount prints. Seal Colormount seems to be available everywhere. It's not always been in the cut sizes I wanted, but that's why I have some big long rolls.

Everywhere as in where, for example?

[Steve Goldstein]

I was looking for 11x14 tissue last year and couldn’t find it. I succeeded in in tracking down the current manufacturer of what used to be Seal Colormount and they told me they were no longer cutting sheets. I ended up buying a 24”-wide roll that will serve any size I’m likely to print. Yes, it’s a pain, but it beats having no tissue at all.

[Drew Wiley]

Seal products became DK, and Colormount etc mfg was shifted to China, and it has apparently since largely disappeared. An excellent substitute is Drytac Trimount, a US product. But it too has run out in most sizes over the past winter, but should show up in decent volume again soon. I need quite a bit of it myself, before I fully run out either my sheets of that, or my big old roll of Colormount. I just checked, and B&H in NYC has just gotten 16X20 sheets of Trimount back in stock; so I'll be ordering that in the next few days. I don't know about EU distribution.

Drymounting is still the standard method of mounting fiber-based prints, and has other standard applications too; so the demand for drymount tissue is still quite high. New drymount presses have gotten awfully expensive; but they last a long time.

Buffermount, intended to be removable if needed, is not as strong or reliable as slightly higher temp Colormount or Trimount. Trimount seems to need a little bit more "dwell time" in the press than Colormount, but otherwise, it's very straightforward switching from one product to the other.

[xkaes]

Everywhere as in where, for example?

https://www.google.com/search?q=seal+colormount&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuubSriKP-AhWTLH0KHS-AB6sQ0pQJCPII&biw=1920&bih=1354&dpr=1

[Drew Wiley]

Yeah, sure ... One of those sites states, No longer available, the other, Not in stock. Time to switch to Trimount instead.

[popdoc]

Not to hijack the thread, but as a “point of information“…

Someone was telling me a while ago that Kodak dry mount lasts/is usable forever. They are regularly buying up stocks of it as they see it coming up for sale on the web. What has everyone’s experience been with older Kodak dry mount tissue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Michael R]

Try reading any of those. No longer available, not available etc.


https://www.google.com/search?q=seal+colormount&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuubSriKP-AhWTLH0KHS-AB6sQ0pQJCPII&biw=1920&bih=1354&dpr=1

[neil poulsen]

I would advise NOT getting the removable dry mount tissue. It makes it tough to get it t hold.

[Drew Wiley]

Kodak tissue? So so. Nothing special. Some of it required a lot of heat, like Seal MT5. I don't know why anyone would seek it out, unless they have an interest in Paleontology. But if that is what they are accustomed to, why not?

Some bonding failures are due to too little heat in relation to newer "removable" tissues. But mostly, they're due to improper technique, like failing to pre-dry the components.

[Doremus Scudder]

I would advise NOT getting the removable dry mount tissue. It makes it tough to get it t hold.

I've been using BufferMount for over 30 years. It works just fine, has no problems with coming up or not adhering and is really flexible.

I had a bunch of prints damaged by a water leak in a storage unit I was renting (so much for climate and humidity controlled...). The mat boards were shot and moldy on one side, but the prints were just fine. I was able to remove them and remount them on new boards.

It's also come in handy when I accidentally mis-mount a print. Yes, I have to discard the board, but the print I can remove and re-mount on another board.

I get it in rolls now (no longer available in sheets) and cut it down. EZPZ if you have a rotary cutter anyway.

Best,

Doremus

[Tin Can]

https://www.drymounttissue.com/product/trimount-dry-mount-tissue/




I was looking for 11x14 tissue last year and couldn’t find it. I succeeded in in tracking down the current manufacturer of what used to be Seal Colormount and they told me they were no longer cutting sheets. I ended up buying a 24”-wide roll that will serve any size I’m likely to print. Yes, it’s a pain, but it beats having no tissue at all.

[Sal Santamaura]

...Even with people going digital, they still need to dry-mount prints...

Nope. They don't "need" to. I've never dry mounted an inkjet print. They're not like fiber-base gelatin silver prints. Corners, or a piece of tape above the window, and they stay perfectly flat when matted.

[xkaes]

Thumb tacks work too.

[robbymilo]

Iga did you have any luck finding dry mount tissue in the EU? I have had good luck with https://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/hot-press-dry-mounting-tissue-25in-x-82ft-roll-650/p7364 but it needs to be imported.

[Drew Wiley]

xkaes - I don't know what Sheridan is like, but in the little cowboy town I grew up in, thumbacks were what naughty children placed on the chair of temporary school teachers brought in from the city.

And Sal, "perfectly flat"? That would apply only to a rather small inkjet print held down by the window mat. And even then, the backing board might warp with humidity changes,
along with the print itself. Never say never. But if it works for the size prints you are dealing with, great. It sure doesn't work for big ones (like 30X40 inch ones).

[Sal Santamaura]

...Sal, "perfectly flat"? That would apply only to a rather small inkjet print held down by the window mat. And even then, the backing board might warp with humidity changes,
along with the print itself. Never say never. But if it works for the size prints you are dealing with, great. It sure doesn't work for big ones (like 30X40 inch ones).

No change in the six months since I replied to this thread. Inkjet prints I've made up through ones on 13x19 paper, whether stored in boxes or taped to backer mat board, under a window mat and framed, remain perfectly flat. They're on Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin, although the 8-1/2x11 tests on a variety of other papers I've also made remain perfectly flat in a box. Note that our RH here varies radically from season to season, running from near 90% in some summer conditions to below 10% during cold northeast winter spells when the heat is on. Prints of 30x40 inches, whether gelatin silver or inkjet, are not anything I have any interest in or experience making.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, those are reasonably small, so their acceptable behavior is what I'd expect. But what works in one climate well, might not in another. I used to deliberately farm out framed samples of various prints to different climates, and keep track over ten or twenty years. That might not be a realistic option anymore. Hard to say if I'm going to last another 20. But microclimates are the name of the game here. We've got cold foggy summers here; but it can be 60 degrees warmer just 15 miles inland. True tropical climates are the most difficult when it comes to framing; just keeping the bugs out takes some finesse.

[esearing]

any thoughts about using Drytac on 11x14 or 12x20 mounting FB prints to gator board (same size as trimmed print)? Gator board would then be loosely tacked to mat board for future removal if needed. This creates a drop shadow without need for an over matte but have to use spacers in the frame to keep the print away from the glass.

I've done it once but still unsure about gatorboard used by the framer.

[Drew Wiley]

Traditional Gator won't work. Even with hi-tack cold adhesive sheets it needs to be sanded first anyway due to the presence of phenolic resin. You might look into Mighty Core or Ultramount if you want a premium board with a paper liner. (Gator offers more than one kind of product now; but I was assuming you were referring to the original version, which is lined with wood pulp fiber made inert through incorporation with phenolic resin.)

[Tin Can]

I have a Sintra board mount 4X5 ft photo which was biggest in one flat box they would ship

Not printed on Sintra, but matte photo paper glued to sintra by Pros

Stay tuned

I just got it in frame on wall

[esearing]

Traditional Gator won't work. Even with hi-tack cold adhesive sheets it needs to be sanded first anyway due to the presence of phenolic resin. You might look into Mighty Core or Ultramount if you want a premium board with a paper liner. (Gator offers more than one kind of product now; but I was assuming you were referring to the original version, which is lined with wood pulp fiber made inert through incorporation with phenolic resin.)

My bad - framer referred to it as Gator board but it is merely a foam filled plastic covered base material she uses for Lithographs and other paper mounts like watercolors and inkjet prints. She has been in business for 30+ years so if things were failing she would know. The print and mount has held up in a bathroom for over a year with no signs of warping but the frame is well sealed.

[Peter Lewin]

Down to my last 5 sheets of buffermount. I see the recommendation for Drytac Trimount which I can get from B&H. The accompanying B&H text says it is recommended for RC prints. Does it work well for silver gelatin fiber based prints? Anything special I should know for mounting those? (I have lots of experience with buffer mount and color mount, this will be something new.)

[Doremus Scudder]

Down to my last 5 sheets of buffermount. I see the recommendation for Drytac Trimount which I can get from B&H. The accompanying B&H text says it is recommended for RC prints. Does it work well for silver gelatin fiber based prints? Anything special I should know for mounting those? (I have lots of experience with buffer mount and color mount, this will be something new.)

Peter,

BufferMount is available in rolls if you don't mind cutting your own sheets. That's what I do now. Just Google search; I found several.
Trimount should be similar to ColorMount, if I'm not mistaken.

Best,

Doremus

[Tin Can]

I have a good supply of NOS Dry Mount

Cheap

as I bought when offered

right here on our For Sale Pages

none for sale

[Peter Lewin]

Peter, BufferMount is available in rolls if you don't mind cutting your own sheets. That's what I do now. Just Google search; I found several.
Trimount should be similar to ColorMount, if I'm not mistaken. Doremus

Thanks, roll of Buffermount ordered, per your suggestion I will use my rotary cutter to cut slightly oversize 11x14 sheets, which is my usual print & dry mount size. Last question: what are people using for silicone release sheets? They look like another dry amount supply no longer available, my google search only came up with rolls which are way more than I will ever need.

[Tin Can]

Release paper is Silicone Baking paper i

At every supermarket

[neil poulsen]

Just a guess, but how about Jerry's Art O Rama?

[Drew Wiley]

I still prefer the "official" Seal silicone release paper. Might as well; I still have a big roll of it. I do use lesser kinds of release papers for laying down Formica, etc.

The bookbinding supplier, Talas, even sells rolls of premium siliconized polyester, which is especially resistant to silicone transfer. You might try them for smaller sizes of cut-sheet regular release paper, which they also stock.

Any picture framing supplier will carry release paper. B&H carries a selection of both D&K (formerly Seal) and Drytac release paper. There's no shortage of it.

[Peter Lewin]

Any picture framing supplier will carry release paper. B&H carries a selection of both D&K (formerly Seal) and Drytac release paper. There's no shortage of it.
B&H only sells release paper in rolls, and the smallest roll is $245. Googling “silicone release paper” doesn’t come up with anything economical. Following Tin Can’s suggestion I found unbleached parchment baking paper in our pantry (my wife likes to bake :) ) and used it for the 3 prints I mounted earlier today, works fine. Even the “silicone baking paper” (Tin Can’s exact suggestion) is not carried in our local supermarket chains. It sounds so easy, but it isn’t.

[Drew Wiley]

Talas sells it for only $3.50 per individual 24" X 36" sheet (considerably less in volume). Plus shipping of course. They're in Brooklyn. That is easy.

[Mark J]

I have an unused roll bought c.2012 upstairs.
Would you like me to check if I can find the brand ?
It was probably bought from Firstcall Photographic in the UK.

[Peter Lewin]

Everyone, I'm set for now but quick notes for anyone else restocking. Talas, mentioned by Drew, is a good source. When I went there for release paper a few days back, the 24x36 sheets were out of stock but I think they are back now. There is a minimum order size of 10 sheets, $35.00 plus shipping. As mentioned, I recently started using unbleached parchment (super market baking paper) as a replacement release paper, and so far it works fine, it is non-stick for baking and seems to be the same for dry mount tissue.

[Doremus Scudder]

Everyone, I'm set for now but quick notes for anyone else restocking. Talas, mentioned by Drew, is a good source. When I went there for release paper a few days back, the 24x36 sheets were out of stock but I think they are back now. There is a minimum order size of 10 sheets, $35.00 plus shipping. As mentioned, I recently started using unbleached parchment (super market baking paper) as a replacement release paper, and so far it works fine, it is non-stick for baking and seems to be the same for dry mount tissue.

Peter,

Glad you've found everything you needed. Sourcing mounting supplies seems to be getting more difficult.

Just FYI, I've never really used release paper, opting instead for a one-ply sheet of cotton rag paper (which I also use for interleaving prints). I trim the print and the tacked-on mounting tissue together and don't ever have a problem with the tissue bleeding outside the border. Never once a stuck-together print and interleaving sheet.

Best,

Doremus

[Drew Wiley]

I trim the mounting tissue slightly smaller than the overall initial print size (including the white borders), then bond the drymount tissue to the back of that - an operation where a silicone release sheet is essential. Then afterwards, I precisely trim down the print itself to its final size before final drymounting on the museum rag board.

Another function where silicone release sheet is essential pertains to high-tack permanent acrylic cold adhesives used for large color prints, along with a high-pressure roller press.
It's a lot like laying Formica down using contact cement, but actually far more fussy. One little mistake or wrinkle or bubble, and you ruin the whole thing. The silicone release paper is gradually pulled away as the roller system progressively bonds the length of the piece. Ordinary wax paper is fine for Formica, but not for a task like this.

Doremus - Release paper should NEVER be used in a heated press on the front side of a fiber-based print. Sometimes a bit of silicone can actually transfer and leave an irremovable shiny spot on the emulsion. It's only legitimate use is either between a tacking iron and the back of the dymounting tissue, or else the between the heated press and the tissue, in which case a supplementary sheet of museum board should also be temporarily in place ABOVE the release sheet to more evenly disperse the heat.

But there are a few (darn few) practitioners who used Colormount to actually drymount chromogenic color RC prints. But in that case, a thick silicone coated board was supposed to be used between the heated press top and the print surface, to minimize uneven sheen effects due to semi-melting of the RC top layer. A sheet of pure Teflon could also be hypothetically be used for that. But I've never found the look of hot-mounted RC prints to be acceptable.

[tgtaylor]

I bought a 26" x 16' box of Bienfang release paper years and years ago from a local camera store for $50.99 which I thought was on the expensive side. Release paper last forever as long as you don't put a crease in it. I'm still on the first sheet. I'm currently using D&K Buffermount dry mount which I get from B&H - ~$120 for a 90' roll.