Filters on Fujinon 90mm

[Sigurd Wik]

Hi,

I am looking into buying a lens/filter combo, wanted to hear if anyone would weigh in one useability.

Want to buy a Fujinon SW 90 mm f8, and new set of ND and color filters. AFAIK, lens has 67mm filter thread, and I want to get 67mm screw on glass filters from B+W. Question is if I would run into vignetting problems with one 67mm screw on color filter in addition to one 67mm screw on ND filter with a wide lens and this one in particular.

I haven't got the lens to test this myself, and can't seem to find info on it, so appreciate any info.

Thanks,
Sigurd

[Mark J]

I haven't got a lot of specific experience on this lens, but with Super-Angulon types like this, you will be vignetting the full coverage if you put two filters on there. Maybe you will be, even with one filter with a deep rim.
However it all comes down to the format you're using, and how much shift you expect to use. You will be well short of using the full coverage if you are working with 4x5" and moderate movements, so it may be fine in this case. If you are shooting 5x7", on the other hand, you will probably run into problems with two filters. I'm sure someone will be able to add to this

[Doremus Scudder]

Yep, Mark is right. Two 67mm filters stacked on that 90mm will vignette the image circle. If you need to use two filters, there are solutions. You can get a 67mm to whatever larger size step-up ring and use larger filters (e.g., 77mm or 105mm), but that gets expensive. Related to this is getting a center filter (expensive). These usually step up to a larger size like 105mm, but then you'd need the center filter and two 105mm filters...

You could also get gels or acrylic filters and a dedicated holder, larger than your lens, and use one screw-in filter and another, external square filter. Or, you can mount one filter behind the lens and one in front. Be sure to focus with the filter in place behind the lens if you use glass filter this way, since the behind-the-lens filter shifts focus. Mounting gel filters behind the lens is the best option if you use behind-the-lens filters. There are holders you can get/rig up, some as simple as magnets with a frame. Gels behind the lens don't introduce enough focus shift to warrant having to focus with the filter mounted.

Of course, you can get by with stacking filters if you aren't using all of the image circle, i.e., if the vignetted part of the image circle doesn't end up on the film. But, if you want to use movements, you should be careful. Note that you can use back tilts and swings with only the center of the image circle, but front movements displace the image circle so you are using the edges.

Learn how to check if you're vignetting or not. Check by looking back through the lens stopped down to taking aperture before inserting a film holder. You should be able to see all four corners of the ground glass. Alternatively, if you have clipped corners on your ground glass, stop down the lens to taking aperture and look from the corner to the aperture. You should be able to see all of it. If it is oval-shaped, you will have fall-off; if you can't see it, you're vignetted.

Best,

Doremus

[Mick Fagan]

An interesting question, I have that exact lens and I use 67mm glass screw on filters, but never two at a time. I don't have B&W filters, I have a generic glass filter set which, as far as I know, originates from China.

Regardless, I put one filter on, checked the corners, clear.

Put another one on for two filters, checked the corners, clear.

Put another one on for three filters, checked the corners, I could just see a slight amount of filter body in all corners.

Everything was centred and zeroed.

I have taken some phone pictures, but my email service is down at the moment. Once that issue is resolved I'll put up some pictures.

Pictures added.

236706

236707

[Sigurd Wik]

Thanks a lot, all of you. Very useful.

Mark, good point. Sorry didn't mention format, doing 4x5.

Doremus, thanks for sound advice. The idea of one screw on filter and one square is nice and would work for me, as I have an older Lee 100 square holder with wide angle adapter. Looks like the edges on that one builds up a bit less than some of the shallower screw on filters, so looks like that could work and still have some movements.

Very interesting test, Mick. Thanks for that, it is reassuring that two filters are ok with no movements on front standard. Did you do the test with lens wide open, or stopped down?

[Rick A]

I always use a step up ring and oversize filters on wide angles to avoid any chance of vignetting.

[Mick Fagan]

Sigurd,

I first did it wide open with two filters, which allowed me to see everything very clearly. Nothing to be seen.

Then I did it stopped down to f/22 with two filters. Nothing to be seen.

Then I did it wide open with three filters, big piece of curved filter ring visible.

Then I did it stopped down, but with three filters it was very clear that one could see the curved metal ring of the filter wide open or stopped down to f/22.

By slowly moving the aperture knob from wide open, I deduced that the curved metal ring of the filter was excluded at approximately f/32½ or roughly halfway between f/32 and f/45. I ran the aperture knob back and forward quite a few times before I was completely satisfied at where the filter ring disappeared.

Trust me when I say it is very dark stopped down that much, and with three filters on!!!!

Two filters should be alright.

[Doremus Scudder]

... Two filters should be alright.

Only if you don't use any movements. With rise/fall, shift and front tilts/swings, you are no longer using just the center of the image circle. Two filters will vignette the outside corner(s).

Doremus

[Eric Woodbury]

I would check it. At f/22, it may be okay. If not, call it a 95mm lens and crop the corners. It's fuzzy out there anyway.

Or, there are thin filters available. And "gels". Tape an ND gel inside behind the lens. I buy lighting gels and cut them up. Far cheaper.

[Paul Ron]

get a 67mm to 70mm ring adapter and 70 mm filters so your filters will be oversized and out of your viewing angle.

.

[Paul Ron]

I always use a step up ring and oversize filters on wide angles to avoid any chance of vignetting.

+1

[Kiwi7475]

Also note that different filters have different ring thicknesses, some are slim some are not…. So experiences from folks here may not be applicable unless you match the brand/model…
If you are considering using filters I’d suggest you invest right away in a 100mm square filter system (several options out there… and filters of a wide range of prices and quality…. Most of them inter-compatible). Almost guaranteed otherwise you’ll end up buying screw on filters of various sizes over time as you increase the number of lenses you own…. Also you can go up to 3 and in some systems 4 filters before you’re maxed out.

[Sigurd Wik]

Thanks for all input.

Mick - great info, thanks for doing this.

Paul/Rick - yeah I think I would go with the step up ring. Think 67 to 72 is too little difference? Still vignetting issues with two filters and movements?

Kiwi - Thanks for heads up on ring depth, good point. Thought about screw on vs square system. I use square nd glass filters, so have the Lee 100 system. Now I want color glass filters for b/w, and biggest issue is that I can't seem to find any, except for the very pricey Tiffen 4x4. The rest I can find in 4x4 is polyester or resin, but even there the output seems to be limited, only Cokin available? Screw on seems to be the only way to get good glass without spending a lot of money, but open for square option if there is b/w contrast filters to be had.

[Kiwi7475]

Thanks for all input.

Mick - great info, thanks for doing this.

Paul/Rick - yeah I think I would go with the step up ring. Think 67 to 72 is too little difference? Still vignetting issues with two filters and movements?

Kiwi - Thanks for heads up on ring depth, good point. Thought about screw on vs square system. I use square nd glass filters, so have the Lee 100 system. Now I want color glass filters for b/w, and biggest issue is that I can't seem to find any, except for the very pricey Tiffen 4x4. The rest I can find in 4x4 is polyester or resin, but even there the output seems to be limited, only Cokin available? Screw on seems to be the only way to get good glass without spending a lot of money, but open for square option if there is b/w contrast filters to be had.

This is all depending on your expectations but years ago after replacing expensive glass filters with these resin ones, I wasn’t able to tell any difference in sharpness or image quality:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1292187-REG

I’ve also switched to resin NDs and graduated filters and again I can’t tell the difference with a magnifying loupe on the negatives… Looking for expensive glass for filters to me has proven to be snake oil. The only time I think it matters what you put in front of your lens is to avoid flares.

If you have a resin filter you could try yourself… with and without and see if you see any quality degradation…

[xkaes]

Paul/Rick - yeah I think I would go with the step up ring. Think 67 to 72 is too little difference? Still vignetting issues with two filters and movements?
.

I standardized on 77mm. That's mainly because of my RB67 days, but 77mm filters are easy to get, have a super selection, and about the same price as 72mm. PLUS, I have quite a few lenses that have 77mm filter threads!!!

So I use my Fujinon NSW 90mm f8 with a 67mm UV filter and a step-up ring to 77mm and never had a problem with multiple filters -- but I've never gone crazy with movements either.

[Drew Wiley]

The next very common filter size above 67mm is 72, then 77, then 82. 105 is way out there beyond the rings of Saturn. Good resin filters often cost MORE than coated glass, and are more sensitive, more electrostatic, and more reflective. But you could try filterfind.net, who has quite a bit of discounted high quality resin in stock.

[Alan Klein]

I have 77mm filters from my Mamiya RB67 medium format camera. All its lenses take 77mm filters. So I added step up adapters on each of my three 4x5 lenses that gives me less chance for vignetting and no need to buy additional filters. Of course, my 90mm Nikkor f4.5, a fourth lens with a Schneider center filter, requires a 105mm filter. So I haven't bit the bullet for contrast or polarizing filters for it yet.

[Kiwi7475]

And that’s the eternal story with screw on filters. One keeps buying and buying as new lens are acquired. The square filter system is what stops it so the sooner one jumps into it the better off financially.

Plus you don’t get to enjoy graduated filters with screw ons…

[xkaes]

And that’s the eternal story with screw on filters. One keeps buying and buying as new lens are acquired.

That hasn't happened to me -- or Alan, who also standardized on 77mm.

[xkaes]

..my 90mm Nikkor f4.5, a fourth lens with a Schneider center filter, requires a 105mm filter. So I haven't bit the bullet for contrast or polarizing filters for it yet.

Is there a law in New Jersey against putting the CND filter on last? I wouldn't be surprised. There's a law in Colorado against transporting prairie dogs across County lines. Fortunately, I haven't been caught yet.

[Kiwi7475]

That hasn't happened to me -- or Alan, who also standardized on 77mm.

Did you miss the part where he said he now has another lens that requires 105mm filters?

In any case most people tend to grow their lens collection over time and at some point standardization breaks down. But if that’s not your case then good for you. And it’s only money anyway.

[xkaes]

You may think it does, and so may he as well. But that belief doesn't make it so.

[Alan Klein]

Is there a law in New Jersey against putting the CND filter on last? I wouldn't be surprised. There's a law in Colorado against transporting prairie dogs across County lines. Fortunately, I haven't been caught yet.

What do you mean putting it on last?

What's a CND filter? Do you mean GND?

[xkaes]

Sorry for the abbreviation. By CND, I mean Center Neutral Density filter.

[Mick Fagan]

I have two types of filters that by definition of their construction, I always place last.

Polarising filters, I have Nikon glass ones, both of them have their specified size, 52mm and 72mm and in both cases their outer ring is way wider than their screw on size.

I have a Heliopan 67mm centre neutral density filter which has two sizes marked on it's side, 67mm and 86mm.

https://www.keh.com/shop/heliopan-67mm-neutral-density-nd-0-45-ww-67-86-center-filter.html

And for Sigurd's information, the Heliopan 67mm centre neutral density filter I have is brilliant on my Fujinon SWD f/5.6 65mm lens and really a requirement unless you like dealing with falloff later down the track and pretty handy on my 90mm lens. In general not always needed or wished for with the 90mm lens, but nonetheless very nice when needed, used or desired on the 90mm lens.

[xkaes]

I have a Heliopan 67mm centre neutral density filter which has two sizes marked on it's side, 67mm and 86mm.

Heliopan is the forgotten name in CND filters. Heliopan made CND filters from 49mm to 127mm (!) in two strengths, -1.5 f-stops and -3.0 f-stops. All had a larger front threads than the rear thread.

But some CND filters do not have larger front threads -- such as the Hoya CND filters that I've seen. Hoya is pretty much an unknown brand in CND filters -- and don't use the TWO element style of the BIG names. It appears that they are all HMC (Hoya Multi-Coated), and were available in 1 and 1.5 f-stop (ND2X & ND3X) densities. They were available in at least 58mm, 62mm, 67mm, 72mm, and 77mm sizes.

Good luck finding any of these.

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/center5.htm