What is going on with this Goerz Dagor?

[J. Patric Dahlen]

A 120mm Goerz Berlin Serie III Dagor, serial number 233169 in rim set Compur. The font doesn't look right, and the serial number means it was made in 1913, way too early for this shutter. The camera is unmarked, no brand. :confused:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/404180463506

[domaz]

Maybe someone had the lens re-machined and made a custom camera. People have been DIYing camera parts for a long time...

[Robert Opheim]

probably re-shuttered. The shutter looks like it is from the 1920-1930s time frame. I know about American Goerz lenses - but I do not know about German Goerz lenses. The Compur shutters like this one seems to be, are pretty good. I have an American Gorez lens in a shutter of this vintage.

[LabRat]

It might be one of those B&J "conversions"... Look those up also...

Steve K

[J. Patric Dahlen]

Yes, it could have been re-shuttered, but Goerz used capital letters back then: https://aukro.cz/goerz-berlin-dopp-anastigmat-serie-iii-dagor-1-6-8-f-120-mm-6997071158 so I wonder why the lens would have been re-engraved? The condition of the lens, shutter and camera, makes the combination look original.

Burke & James used later Dagors and had them coated, and this shutter and camera wouldn't fit the period.

[SGD]

Alright folks time to quash the mystery: I messaged the seller because I’ve been seeking a Dagor equipped folding 120 camera for some time now, and the truth is in fact not nearly as strange as fiction.

According to a type written note included with the camera which the seller sent me a photo of, the lens came off a 9x12 camera, so anything is possible as re-shuttering goes. Sadly for me this is a pesky 116 format camera and not 120. I was desperately trying to figure out the identity of the donor body to see if there was in fact precedent for this lens/camera combo and visually it seems to match up with some models of Ica Icarette camera bodies, of which many early specimens have minimal to nonexistent branding on the body itself.

In short: it’s a Frankenstein, and in all likelihood not a factory rebuild a la B&J.

[SGD]

PS: if anyone has a 120 roll film camera equipped with a Dagor (or Dogmar) lens for sale (Goerz Roll film Tenax is the prime suspect) please message me! It’s been my white whale for some time now. What can I say, my tastes are unusually specific :)

[J. Patric Dahlen]

SGD, Frankencamera and the lens and shutter is probably a Frankencombination as well, then. If the aperture scale is correct for the Dagor or if it is for another 6,8 lens is still a mystery. But it's less interesting now.


PS: if anyone has a 120 roll film camera equipped with a Dagor (or Dogmar) lens for sale (Goerz Roll film Tenax is the prime suspect) please message me! It’s been my white whale for some time now. What can I say, my tastes are unusually specific :)

Good luck. They are out there. I have a Roll-Tenax for 120-film with the 10cm Dagor, and one with a 6,3/10cm Dogmar on its way. :)

The Icarette 500 with Maximar 6,8/9cm or Doppel-Amatar 6,8/9cm should perform similar to the Dagor, but be a little wider. Another interesting lens is the Zeiss-Icar, which is the classic Triotar, designed in 1912 and rebranded for ICA. It's often overlooked because of the generic-sounding name and thrown to the side together with the "Novar", "Nostar" and other cheap lenses.