Best Wide-Open Rendering 150mm f5.6 Lens

[Wista45SP]

I know my screen name says Wista 45SP, but I’ve moved to a Chamonix 45-F2. Currently only have a Fujinon 125mm f5.6.

Looking to add a 150mm f5.6 lens to shoot portraits wide open. Clinical sharpness is not what I’m after, nor an extreme vintage swirly bokeh look. I just want something that has smooth rendering like my Pentax 67 105mm f2.4 lens has.

I was looking at Fujinon 150mm lenses, but can be any manufacturer such as Schneider, etc . What should I focus on acquiring?

[Lachlan 717]

Fujinar-W 15cm

[ridax]

• Any Componon or Rodagon for the best FOREGROUND out of focus rendering (wide open only).

For the better out of focus BACKGROUND rendering -

• An f/3.5 Tessar stopped down to f/4.5 or f/5.6.
• Some (but not all) of the f/4.5 tessars stopped down slightly (NOT at f/4.5 though).

[BrianShaw]

It is likely that all of the plasmats will perform about the same. Not sure that you’ll find them or the 150 FL to really meet your desires. I’ve transitioned to older lenses for that application, mostly Kodak Anastigmats and Commercial Ektar. One lens I really like for portrait but is generally not liked around here is Fujinon SF. When used with diffusing discs will render soft focus from mild to extreme. When used without disc renders very nice for portrait without the sharpness offers by a plasmat lens. 250 is easiest to find ( and really useful for 4x5 portraits and 180 not too difficult to find. Just make sure you get diffuser discs with the lens as they are rather difficult to find separately.

[Tin Can]

Best does not exist

[xkaes]

Fujinar-W 15cm


I assume this means the 15cm f6.3.

The Fujinar was the first version, but it later appeared as the Fujinon W 150mm f6.3 -- with at first Seiko shutters and then later a Copal shutter. Some of the literature suggested that some were EBC coated, but none of the versions had that.

The Fujinon with a Copal shutter would be the pick of the litter, but the results would be the same from any model.

All of these should be very inexpensive. The lens is VERY small. All are 4/3 Tessars. Used wide open the shape of the iris blades is irrelevant.

235765

[Daniel Unkefer]

Schneider 150mm F4.5 Xenar has round iris vs Plasmat hexagonal and I like the smooth rendition. I also like Schneider Componons for close shooting prefer over Symmars. No best, purely a matter of personal preference. Opinions vary and are subjective. Try a few different ones and decide for yourself

[djdister]

I would not use a 150mm for portraits on 4x5 - you should look for something in the 210-250 range or even longer. Better yet, get a Verito or Kodak Portrait lens.

[gypsydog]

I've a Zeiss 16.5cm 3.5 Tessar in compound shutter, very nice opened up in that focal range. I would also suggest a longer lens for portrait work, a 9 1/2 inch 4.5 Wollensak Velostigmat in betax 4 with adjustable soft focus, Its rendering is lovely. I use the 9 1/2, 12 and 14, the 14" has exceptional rendering.

[Bernice Loui]

~There is no "best" wide-open rendering _ _ _ focal length lens... just best trade off and lens personalty that is agreeable with the image maker.


150mm on 4x5 does not translate to the same angle of view as a 105mm on 6x7..
Similar angle of view would be much closer to 210mm, not 150mm.

Exposure aperture of f2.4 at 105mm on 6x7 nets about 237mm total DOF @ 10ft.
translated to about f5.6 at 210mm on 4x5 nets about 238mm total DOF @ 10ft.

Courtesy of Alan:
https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#{%22c%22:[{%22f%22:22,%22av%22:%222.5%22,%22fl%22:105,%22d%22:3048,%22cm%22:%220%22}],%22m%22:0}


Given this, choice becomes the common modern plasmat at f5.6 to vintage lens formulas like Tessar, Heilar, and more.
Previously discussed:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?167665-Help-for-best-set-of-lenses/page4

and this:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?172066-On-lens-focal-length-Perspective-DOF-and-more-PT-1

Take the time to read that discussion as there is a LOT of relevant info.
That said, suggestion would be a Tessar formula lens with a focal length of about 210mm or 8 1/2" with a full aperture of f4.5 to f6.3.
Lens/shutter aperture shape also figures into this.



Bernice






I know my screen name says Wista 45SP, but I’ve moved to a Chamonix 45-F2. Currently only have a Fujinon 125mm f5.6.

Looking to add a 150mm f5.6 lens to shoot portraits wide open. Clinical sharpness is not what I’m after, nor an extreme vintage swirly bokeh look. I just want something that has smooth rendering like my Pentax 67 105mm f2.4 lens has.

I was looking at Fujinon 150mm lenses, but can be any manufacturer such as Schneider, etc . What should I focus on acquiring?

[Corran]

15cm APO Lanthar:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_3dy1h2-ANQ/UmVISilG_KI/AAAAAAAAEDM/TT0hS3aXb5k/s700/vericolor-1746s.jpg

Schneider APO Symmar 150mm f/5.6:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-axLITcfQYZ0/Vdf4CEK6TfI/AAAAAAAAIa8/Z8w0CNgke8s/s700/canoe2-2073s.jpg

Schneider 150mm f/2.8 Xenotar:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rTDywzecUJw/UlhAwyWSkWI/AAAAAAAAD94/Ghfjmvmk89s/s700/awa-1672-12x16s.jpg

[Wista45SP]

Thanks everyone! Great responses.

I just ordered a Schneider Xenar 150mm f5.6 in copal 0 shutter. One of the newer ones that looks like it could have been a re-release in the early 2000s or so (?). Attached pic of the lens from auction.

Looks like this is a non plasmat design (now I know what this means - thanks all).

I know understand I ‘need’ a vintage lens to add next.

My mentioning of the Pentax 67 105mm might have thrown some ppl here off with their mentioning of longer focal lengths than 150mm in 4x5 to get closer to that of the Pentax lens. I was really just trying to get close to the rendering, not focal length (I understand these are however tangentially connected).

No rules in photography! I disagree that portraits “should” be taken with longer lenses like 180-210mm. My personal favorite portraits are taken by Schumaat using a 135mm lens on 4x5. Strange how that works sometimes. Technically however, all strong points and I learned a lot here.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51934923850_6418196643_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n8j4ty)Makiflex TMX100 Kodak Readyload 545 D23 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8j4ty) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

TMAX100 4x5 Readyload 545 Back Makiflex D23. Omega DII with Omegalite laser aligned Arista RC #2 paper Multigrade dev. Digital background shot by Tim Layton and enlarged at Cosco. Studio overhead lighting. 150mm f5.6 chrome barrel Schneider Xenar. Great lens I bought for fifty bucks.

[Serge S]

Beautiful Bokeh !


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51934923850_6418196643_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n8j4ty)Makiflex TMX100 Kodak Readyload 545 D23 (https://flic.kr/p/2n8j4ty) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

TMAX100 4x5 Readyload 545 Back Makiflex D23. Omega DII with Omegalite laser aligned Arista RC #2 paper Multigrade dev. Digital background shot by Tim Layton and enlarged at Cosco. Studio overhead lighting. 150mm f5.6 chrome barrel Schneider Xenar. Great lens I bought for fifty bucks.

[Serge S]

For the OP:

For portraits

I would suggest a 210L fuji which is a tessar formula. (inexpensive vs exotic stuff)
I have one for each system I use - beautiful wide open - not clinical, user friendly & compact - I also use P67 like yourself.
You will like a 210 FL.
Also use a 12 Commercial Ektar at times.

Have a 9 1/2 inch uncoated Dagor which I would like to try for portraits.
Had it sitting around finally mounted on a lensboard as I shoot more & more 5x7 and this is a nice FL for that format.

[Bernice Loui]

That would be the last generation of Schneider Xenar (Tessar formula) produced before they went out of production, could be multi coated.. The copal# 0 shutter might have five semi-rounded iris blades that could aid in into out of focus rendition ala Bokeh.. If the lens is used at f5.6, this is a non-issue.

There are very real reasons why the Tessar lens formula has endured for so many decades, it is well liked by image makers and image viewers.. Legend has it that C.E.K. Mees and Mees' assistant Loyd Jones at Kodak made a series of prints to be used as public opinion collection devices to aid in lens design back in the 1930's.. The prints were made with a variety of lens formulas, based on public feedback, the Tessar was highly favored. This resulted in the Kodak Ektar and Commercial Ektar series of Tessar formula lenses.. Schneider produced the Xenar which is another Tessar formula lens for decades.. it is also one of Schneider's most famous lens offerings resulting in Schneider using the brand name Xenar to this day..

The Tessar lens design/formula remains one of Paul Rudolph's most enduring creations...
https://www.westechoptical.com/blog/paul-rudolph

As for portrait focal length... that is much an image makers choice and preference...

BTW, that Pentax 105mm f2.4 is a double Gauss lens formula variant.. will be curious to learn about your impressions of the 150mm Schneider Xenar..


Bernice



Thanks everyone! Great responses.

I just ordered a Schneider Xenar 150mm f5.6 in copal 0 shutter. One of the newer ones that looks like it could have been a re-release in the early 2000s or so (?). Attached pic of the lens from auction.

Looks like this is a non plasmat design (now I know what this means - thanks all).

I know understand I ‘need’ a vintage lens to add next.

My mentioning of the Pentax 67 105mm might have thrown some ppl here off with their mentioning of longer focal lengths than 150mm in 4x5 to get closer to that of the Pentax lens. I was really just trying to get close to the rendering, not focal length (I understand these are however tangentially connected).

No rules in photography! I disagree that portraits “should” be taken with longer lenses like 180-210mm. My personal favorite portraits are taken by Schumaat using a 135mm lens on 4x5. Strange how that works sometimes. Technically however, all strong points and I learned a lot here.

[Vaidotas]

Best does not exist

Sure it is.
165 SA.
You can squeeze it in to Deardorf Special.
Chamonix 4x5? No way.

[Bernice Loui]

165mm f8 super angulon... which version, Schneider produced the 165mm f8 Super Angulon for decades..

Question would be, why use a 165mm f8 super angulon on a Chamonix 4x5, with an image circle of 394mm @f22, easily covers 8x10 with plenty of camera movements.. kinda excessive on 4x5 and all that stray light inside the bellows from the over-sized image circle will produce in bellows flare reducing image contrast..

165mm f8 super angulon easily fits on a Sinar and a good number of other view cameras..


Bernice




Sure it is.
165 SA.
You can squeeze it in to Deardorf Special.
Chamonix 4x5? No way.

[Bernice Loui]

Bryan Schutmaat..

Giving Voice..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MqlIvbbO_o



Bernice




My personal favorite portraits are taken by Schumaat

[Havoc]

Beautiful Bokeh !

Are we seeing real bokeh or that "digital background shot enlarged at Cosco"?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Are we seeing real bokeh or that "digital background shot enlarged at Cosco"?

It's a combination of both; Beautiful Xenar bokeh, and Tim Layton's digital file printed LARGE at Cosco. I have all fifteen files, printed in a variety of colors and styles. Very useful to me tabletop on my FOBA Sweep Table in my studio. Several years ago I bought into Tim's "Large Format Floral" course, it was a good motivator, and I gleaned a few really choice things from it

[Hugh]

235829
210mm Xenar f/6.1 wide open.

[Daniel Unkefer]

235829
210mm Xenar f/6.1 wide open.

Very creative and perfectly executed. Congrats.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/10534900925_543910661b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/h3W81R)6x9Makiflex1 (https://flic.kr/p/h3W81R) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

My first test exposure with the Plaubel Makiflex. Schneider 150mm F2.8 Xenotar (wide-open at F2.8), Efke 100 6x9 sheet film, processed in ADOX Borax MQ (D76 type). Focus and shutter test. A success!

[Wista45SP]

Here’s the lens I chose (pic attached). Arrived today from Japan. Looks brand new, and thankfully included a UV filter that looks OEM. No idea what size this filter thread is so that was lucky.

[StrangleMeRandy]

As others have suggested, something closer to 210 would give you a more comparable FoV and DoF. As you mentioned, focal length isn't directly related to DoF, but distance is. If you're used to your 105/2.4 you'll probably want something that gives you a comparable working distance, as that will affect perspective and DoF, and 210 should get you there. 150 is pretty close to the 135 you already have, too. All signs point toward longer - 180 could be a good compromise, and there are some nice options there too. I have the 25cm f/4.7 Fujinar, and there's a 18cm as well (and 21cm, I think), which should be f/4.5. Mine has quite a few aperture blades, so it should have lovely out of focus characteristics even at smaller apertures (I don't have particularly good examples at the moment). As others have said, stopping down a wee bit from wide open is often a good idea, and with f/4.5 you'll be right at the f/5.6 you requested.

I wouldn't spend too much time looking for the perfect lens. Your time is better spent figuring out how to use your lenses to the best of your abilities, and learning to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of a given lens. I bet you could even use something like my 203mm f/7.7 Ektar and love it as much as you do the 105.

Edit: https://mmcalc.com/ is a useful tool for getting a grasp on lens comparisons. If you wanted to be precise, your 105/2.4 is about the same as a 200/4.2~ on 4x5. You can definitely afford to stop down a bit for the sake of focus/DoF and keep the look, too. Also, https://lf.animaux.de/lenses