CPP3 Issues

[bob carnie]

I have a CPP3 Jobo unit that is not working properly right now. the control panel is not operating and I am told by Cat Labs who sold it to me that its probably the fuse. Problem in this unit some genius in the factory decided to put the fuses in the guts of the motor unit and taking it apart is not a user friendly issue. I am being told a new motor is going to cost me $3000 to replace which is 2/3 the cost of the machine when I bought it. I believe my unit is the first unit sold in North America. It has low mileage and I feel shipping to Europe will not only be very expensive but also time consuming.
So my question is does anyone here know where I can have a piece of equipment like this looked at and serviced?
best
Bob Carnie

[John Layton]

Maybe you could suggest to whomever fixes your Jobo that they rewire/relocate that fuse to someplace easy to reach? Should be fairly simple to do this - so long as it could be protected from moisture.

[Michael R]

I’d take it apart myself before spending thousands on repair and shipping and hassles. It can’t be that hard. I’d just snap lots of phone pictures to facilitate re-assembly and assuming it is a fuse or something else replaceable perhaps Omer can guide you.

[Bernice Loui]

"Fuses" inside motors are thermo cut out fuses. They are specifically designed to open circuit if the motor is over heated due to over loading or other similar fault condition. Once these thermo fuses open circuit, they do not reset and must be replaced after the motor has been properly and carefully inspected for possible damage to the windings and related. Thermo fuses look like this:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/triad-components-group/K10B-184/12089921?utm_adgroup=Triad%20Components%20Group&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_DK%2BSupplier_Tier%201%20-%20Block%201&utm_term=&utm_content=Triad%20Components%20Group&gclid=CjwKCAiAuaKfBhBtEiwAht6H7y1xsstEzFwMamOHNbOuqLShuKramXOZ88BdAo_Ux9gMk7QIAVUiZhoCaVAQAvD_BwE

Good quality motors tend to be very reliable/durable. Most common problem with motors are wore out bearings, second winding failures due to over loading / over heating.

If the motor needs replacement, it is very possible the motor is an industry motor unless Jobo had a special built for them. Even so, an industry standard replacement can be made to work.


Bernice



Problem in this unit some genius in the factory decided to put the fuses in the guts of the motor unit and taking it apart is not a user friendly issue. I am being told a new motor is going to cost me $3000 to replace which is 2/3 the cost of the machine when I bought it.

[bob carnie]

I’d take it apart myself before spending thousands on repair and shipping and hassles. It can’t be that hard. I’d just snap lots of phone pictures to facilitate re-assembly and assuming it is a fuse or something else replaceable perhaps Omer can guide you.

Tried , much more than what I can handle, I have no intentions of spending thousands .

[Oren Grad]

Bob - this is tangential to your immediate problem of how to fix it, but what kinds of loads were you running on it? That is, what drums, with how much solution, how often? N = 1 doesn't prove anything, but there might be some insight to be gained here about what it takes to blow the fuse in the CPP3.

[ic-racer]

You tried resetting the safety switch?

[Fred L]

I wonder if Schenk is still doing repairs ? if he is, I'd give him a call, but no idea f he's ever worked on Jobo processors.

[bob carnie]

You tried resetting the safety switch?

Yes

[bob carnie]

I wonder if Schenk is still doing repairs ? if he is, I'd give him a call, but no idea f he's ever worked on Jobo processors.

Hi Fred - who is Schenk?

[Sal Santamaura]

...what kinds of loads were you running on it? That is, what drums, with how much solution, how often?...

For many years Bob has posted that he develops film commercially, so I'd guess fairly often. In one thread concerning a 3005 drum, his reply indicated he wasn't exceeding the 1000 ml Jobo-recommended maximum:


https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105332-JOBO-Blues&p=1047108&viewfull=1#post1047108

Perhaps he'll update us if that has changed.

[bob carnie]

For many years Bob has posted that he develops film commercially, so I'd guess fairly often. In one thread concerning a 3005 drum, his reply indicated he wasn't exceeding the 1000 ml Jobo-recommended maximum:


https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105332-JOBO-Blues&p=1047108&viewfull=1#post1047108

Perhaps he'll update us if that has changed.

Yes , I. stay within the 1000ml limit, It must be noted that I am doing 3% of the film processing volume that I did 20 years ago, so this CPP3 unit has very low mileage on it.

[Fred L]

Hi Fred - who is Schenk?
we used him to repair our bowens and dynalights a number of years back. he had a shop in that building of creatives on carlaw north of queen.

[Michael R]

Perhaps worth a call to KHB Photografix to see if they can point you in a direction. They work on a lot of stuff but not Jobo as far as I know. Still, they might have suggestions. Unfortunately they seem to have moved to Welland now.

[bob carnie]

Perhaps worth a call to KHB Photografix to see if they can point you in a direction. They work on a lot of stuff but not Jobo as far as I know. Still, they might have suggestions. Unfortunately they seem to have moved to Welland now.

You may be right Kevin knows a lot of stuff, he is fixing my Devere timers , maybe he can advise on the jobo

[Michael R]

I really hope they can help somehow, if not directly. One of the (several) reasons I never ended up pulling the trigger on a Jobo machine is I was afraid I'd have this sort of bad luck and be screwed.


You may be right Kevin knows a lot of stuff, he is fixing my Devere timers , maybe he can advise on the jobo

[interneg]

Have you contacted Jobo directly?

[jnantz]

Perhaps worth a call to KHB Photografix to see if they can point you in a direction. They work on a lot of stuff but not Jobo as far as I know. Still, they might have suggestions. Unfortunately they seem to have moved to Welland now.

that's what I was going to suggest, pretty much the only place I know of in Canada, they made me a new carrier for an obsolete omega enlarger, were more than affordable and probably the nicest shop I have ever contacted.


Have you contacted Jobo directly?

that be cat labs...

[interneg]

that be cat labs...

Jobo Germany, not the US distributor. These are nothing like as complicated as the Autolabs.

[Louis Pacilla]

Jobo Germany, not the US distributor.


I am told by Cat Labs who sold it to me that its probably the fuse. Problem in this unit some genius in the factory decided to put the fuses in the guts of the motor unit and taking it apart is not a user friendly issue. I am being told a new motor is going to cost me $3000 to replace which is 2/3 the cost of the machine when I bought it. I believe my unit is the first unit sold in North America. It has low mileage and I feel shipping to Europe will not only be very expensive but also time consuming.
So my question is does anyone here know where I can have a piece of equipment like this looked at and serviced?
best
Bob Carnie

If you read Bob's original post the 3000usd is the cost for the motor replacement plus shipping to Germany and this seems like the newer machines are harder to take apart because I have all kinds of repair printouts from Jobo for working on either the CPP2 or CPA2 both of which I have but have not had to work on anything other then the CPP2's replacement pump motor and the machine was very easy to work on as I recall.

[interneg]

If you read Bob's original post the 3000usd is the cost for the motor replacement plus shipping to Germany and this seems like the newer machines are harder to take apart because I have all kinds of repair printouts from Jobo for working on either the CPP2 or CPA2 both of which I have but have not had to work on anything other then the CPP2's replacement pump motor and the machine was very easy to work on as I recall.

It seems to read more like the 3K being the catlabs price - but Bob seems to be considering how much shipping it direct to Jobo will cost. The complexity in the CPP3 is the digital readout/ push-button control layout - the new CPP Classic is closer to a CPP2 evolution. Equally, the control interface is the most expensive part in a Jobo by some measure - the rest is relatively straightforward mechanical components. It will all come down to how much Jobo is prepared to strip & repair a machine versus replacing the whole interface - and what they are prepared to underwrite their distributors doing repair-wise.

[bob carnie]

Jobo Germany, not the US distributor. These are nothing like as complicated as the Autolabs.

I owned two auto labs and the lift arm replacements were difficult,, this unit the fuse is buried within the motor assembly , I tried taking it apart and lets just say I am a professional printer for a reason and not a small machine repair teck.

[bob carnie]

I will say this that since we do a very simple PMK process here and since I do not allow myself or my staff leave the machine we are basically using this unit as a tempering bath and a roller device.. I am so pissed at this I think now I am more interested
in getting a manual roller and just use a grey lab to time.... I am very sure people will start complaining about this issue as time goes on, the unit I bought was the very first one coming into North America and I suspect all CPP3 units are going to at some point fail this way... I totally understand a lot of people are latent McGuivers and relish the opportunity to rip apart and fix equipment. I happen to not be that person, I am like a deer in the headlight when it comes to repair. I never tinkered with cars and motors as a youth and I do not want to now. SOOO I am looking for advice or willing to purchase a very simple roller system that I can put the drums on... any thoughts on where to find something like this... I will keep the base unit and put a kitchen heating device in one of the holes for the chemicals and use it as a pre heat and go all manual.

[Peter De Smidt]

Sorry to hear about all of this, Bob. I find it unacceptable that the company/distributor won't help you out.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909653778_57f761ab94_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n65xyE)3012 Metric 9x12cm JOBO Film Drum on Unicolor Uniroller (https://flic.kr/p/2n65xyE) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I process B&W at ambient temp. Works for me

[Duolab123]

I still am at a loss here. Catlabs is Jobo USA repair shop. If it is a fuse and the motor is OK you should be able to ship the power head, without the huge plastic trough (think box 12x12x12 inches). A new motor shouldn't be $3000 US. I would call Omer back, if that doesn't work call Jobo in Germany.

Motor only shouldn't cost more than 500-600 usd.

[Duolab123]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909653778_57f761ab94_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n65xyE)3012 Metric 9x12cm JOBO Film Drum on Unicolor Uniroller (https://flic.kr/p/2n65xyE) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I process B&W at ambient temp. Works for me

I love than short Kreonite sink :cool:

[Peter De Smidt]

I still am at a loss here. Catlabs is Jobo USA repair shop. If it is a fuse and the motor is OK you should be able to ship the power head, without the huge plastic trough (think box 12x12x12 inches). A new motor shouldn't be $3000 US. I would call Omer back, if that doesn't work call Jobo in Germany.

Motor only shouldn't cost more than 500-600 usd.

Right!

[Fred L]

I will say this that since we do a very simple PMK process here and since I do not allow myself or my staff leave the machine we are basically using this unit as a tempering bath and a roller device.. I am so pissed at this I think now I am more interested
in getting a manual roller and just use a grey lab to time.... I am very sure people will start complaining about this issue as time goes on, the unit I bought was the very first one coming into North America and I suspect all CPP3 units are going to at some point fail this way... I totally understand a lot of people are latent McGuivers and relish the opportunity to rip apart and fix equipment. I happen to not be that person, I am like a deer in the headlight when it comes to repair. I never tinkered with cars and motors as a youth and I do not want to now. SOOO I am looking for advice or willing to purchase a very simple roller system that I can put the drums on... any thoughts on where to find something like this... I will keep the base unit and put a kitchen heating device in one of the holes for the chemicals and use it as a pre heat and go all manual.


I have a CPP-2 (two actually, but one needs repair) and I considered the Stark processor roller base, but in the end, the cost was too much for my needs. CatLabs sells it so this might be one option for you. Seems very basic in operation (fingers crossed) so hopefully fewer or no headaches down the road.

[Tin Can]

plastic mercedes benz

I knew a guy that drove a Mercedes-Benz 600 perhaps a million miles

he bought it very used, it never broke

[Bernice Loui]

Even $500 - $600 for a motor is pricy...

Discover / learn what specific type of motor is used, then do a search of industrial motor suppliers to see if there is the identical to similar replacement.


Bernice



I still am at a loss here. Catlabs is Jobo USA repair shop. If it is a fuse and the motor is OK you should be able to ship the power head, without the huge plastic trough (think box 12x12x12 inches). A new motor shouldn't be $3000 US. I would call Omer back, if that doesn't work call Jobo in Germany.

Motor only shouldn't cost more than 500-600 usd.

[Richard Wasserman]

I suggest contacting a local motor repair shop, they might be able to fix the problem if you can remove the motor and take it to them.

[bob carnie]

Sorry to hear about all of this, Bob. I find it unacceptable that the company/distributor won't help you out.

Hi Peter. they are paying me lip service but actually doing absolutely nothing.. kind of where we are today.

[bob carnie]

I suggest contacting a local motor repair shop, they might be able to fix the problem if you can remove the motor and take it to them.

Its not the motor - it is the fuse that is buried into the motor assembly, but this may be an option

[bob carnie]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51909653778_57f761ab94_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n65xyE)3012 Metric 9x12cm JOBO Film Drum on Unicolor Uniroller (https://flic.kr/p/2n65xyE) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

I process B&W at ambient temp. Works for me

Ok what is the name of this unit the roller setup probably exactly what I want to go to.

[Fred L]

Hi Peter. they are paying me lip service but actually doing absolutely nothing.. kind of where we are today.

It should behoove them to do all they can to get your processor working again. If they fail to do so, I would have a hard time recommending the CPP3 to anyone based on their post sales service and think it could hurt sales if someone like you can't get anywhere with them. Hopefully someone at Jobo headquarters will do what needs to be done.

[Bernice Loui]

Yes indeediee..

There was a time when Foto stores were service oriented and customer support and service was a "thing"...
Jobo was properly supported back in them days, if there was a problem, go to the local Jobo distributor/store and they took care of the issue be it parts, repair or etc...
If the Jobo was an automated system, the service folks would come out to fix it. Back then Jobo was not a high volume or high quality film or print processing system. names like Refrema, Durst, Colenta and ... were significant investments that were run lots daily and HAD to function under the most demanding conditions.. They were properly supported in many ways.. Add to this the vast number of "one hour" foto labs sprinkled all over from shopping centers to drive thru booths and more..

What remains, the very few folks that "deal" in Jobo on their terms..


All if not mostly gone now... leaving this film thing as a speciality thing... for the few.. even if the popularity of film photography is on the rise.

Bernice





Hi Peter. they are paying me lip service but actually doing absolutely nothing.. kind of where we are today.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Ok what is the name of this unit the roller setup probably exactly what I want to go to.

It's a Unicolor Uniroller, it has a bi-directional motor. Omega made one too, it goes one direction only. In using that one, I simply pick up and flip the drum, so they go in the alternate directions. Uniroller works fine for me have used it for decades. For sheet film and roll film I use the JOBO Multitank 5 and Multitank 6 with the JOBO reels

[Peter De Smidt]

Maybe try messaging: https://www.facebook.com/JOBOanalog

There's also a Jobo group with 3K members: https://www.facebook.com/groups/jobofilmdev

[nbagno]

From Catlabs website “CatLABS is the exclusive US distributor of Jobo analog products, and a factory service station for all your Jobo service and spare parts needs.” I guess service in this case means they will give you the address to Jobo Germany.

It wouldn’t hurt to send an email to Klaus, he works on Jobo’s. However he’s in Germany.


Klaus-D. Seynsche Fotolaborservice
Feldstr. 41
51702 Bergneustadt
Germany

Tel.: +49 (0)2261 - 41114
Fax: +49 (0)2261 - 920158
Mobil: +49 (0)170 - 4652734


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[BKP]

Richard's suggestion makes a lot of sense. Years ago one hot august day in Staten Island the attic ceiling fan's motor failed. Taking it out was simple enough other than the heat. (I definitly had heat stroke symptoms) I took it to an electrical supply store and told him that I needed a motor with the same outside diameter. He suggested re-wiring the one I had. It didn't cost a lot and took a few days and went in easier than replacing the whole fan assembly. I'm sure that in Toronto there are many shops that would do that job for a lot less than those scary numbers mentioned. I have a neighbour who is an ex Ontario resident who happens to be a master electrician. If you wish I could ask him of a place to take it to. He's like Bernice, extremely knowledgeable in his/her field. bk

[Michael R]

Bob, were you able to find any solutions/help on this?

[bob carnie]

Hi Michael - thanks for asking, I decided that since we actually used the unit in simple manual mode and we never leave the processor when operation even though we could, I decided to use the existing water bath holder with a kitchen water immersion temp device and am now currently looking for a unicolor type of rotation device that can deliver 45- 55 rotations per minute and we will operate it completely manually and throw out all the other IMO useless parts to this poorly designed unit. We do charge a lot for processing so going all manual is not an issue.

[bob carnie]

I have owned many Jobo units in my time , and it always was something silly about its design. the auto bigger ones had lift arms buried deep within the unit and were very difficult to remove and replace, and they had a basic 36k lift life span so I actually went through two of them before I purchased the CPP3. now this is a mickey mouse unit for the price it is being sold at.

[Michael R]

Wow, how frustrating for thousands of dollars. At least you've found a workaround but geez.


I have owned many Jobo units in my time , and it always was something silly about its design. the auto bigger ones had lift arms buried deep within the unit and were very difficult to remove and replace, and they had a basic 36k lift life span so I actually went through two of them before I purchased the CPP3. now this is a mickey mouse unit for the price it is being sold at.

[bob carnie]

Some people here would fix it and I get that, but for me I am not mechanically inclined, also I was having issues when processing 8 x 10 film with a loaded tank the lift arm was actually breaking when we lifted and putting our hands underneath and helping the lift was awkward , so we just ran the machine as normal and when the dump and fill was needed we stopped the rotation and took the unit off the machine and did this all manually and it worked perfectly. So all in all in rating a CPP3 based on price , usability , service I would give it a 1 out of 10.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275615950209?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20210609144404%26meid%3D9a3a423b93ed42d09e1ae5fc2065f418%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D385103558727%26itm%3D275615950209%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPopularItemsWithSimpleRanker&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2756159502099a3a423b93ed42d09e1ae5fc2065f418%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAAA8A7MsZABwLuaVPSMs%252FTholPj6Yl%252BKviZkjBwf4Ot%252FuQXYcgEWuqzF104SNVdnt0D1GFItkbwCwoWFs3TSU%252FZD8Tgypaw0a6wEjZNF1vA%252BebNHRa5heY9E5c8nwhcpTp2bOtaFH8fcANJzmUdsHkKrqdl7hw5ab9OjizjrTDPAH0QI1EY%252BcMRyNptKjs2XF1gCKNYEJ04LS2FGW3jcIsRpBOsrRDkK5ey4a43q3231AN%252FoOo%252FqUSUpirThv%252Fe%252FVlFUNsITjfYNo2T8HTcqAiodnCBOHEpqywPFlxM75Ep79ZvG%252BTcvS9pgy21e67c8RH0PQ%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675


Bob,
Have you seen these units? I just bought one for myself, and the extension unit. I have a lot of JOBO tanks, always used until now on Unirollers. Just bought a spare, lots of them usually on Ebay

[bob carnie]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275615950209?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110018%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.COMPLISTINGS%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20210609144404%26meid%3D9a3a423b93ed42d09e1ae5fc2065f418%26pid%3D101196%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D385103558727%26itm%3D275615950209%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPopularItemsWithSimpleRanker&_trksid=p2047675.c101196.m2219&amdata=cksum%3A2756159502099a3a423b93ed42d09e1ae5fc2065f418%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAAA8A7MsZABwLuaVPSMs%252FTholPj6Yl%252BKviZkjBwf4Ot%252FuQXYcgEWuqzF104SNVdnt0D1GFItkbwCwoWFs3TSU%252FZD8Tgypaw0a6wEjZNF1vA%252BebNHRa5heY9E5c8nwhcpTp2bOtaFH8fcANJzmUdsHkKrqdl7hw5ab9OjizjrTDPAH0QI1EY%252BcMRyNptKjs2XF1gCKNYEJ04LS2FGW3jcIsRpBOsrRDkK5ey4a43q3231AN%252FoOo%252FqUSUpirThv%252Fe%252FVlFUNsITjfYNo2T8HTcqAiodnCBOHEpqywPFlxM75Ep79ZvG%252BTcvS9pgy21e67c8RH0PQ%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675


Bob,
Have you seen these units? I just bought one for myself, and the extension unit. I have a lot of JOBO tanks, always used until now on Unirollers. Just bought a spare, lots of them usually on Ebay

Thanks so much Daniel I did not see this I will look into it.

Bob

[bob carnie]

Daniel do you think this will work with the expert drums 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 , and I assume the rotation is in one direction ??I see it is not compatable with heavy tanks

[Peter De Smidt]

I've had a CPP2 that I bought new in 1996. It generally works ok, but occasionally it just decides not to rotate. This usually happens at the very start, i.e. I turn the rotate switch, and nothing happens. Eventually, it starts turning, and then it'll be fine. Basically, I agree that Jobos can be pretty flakey.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Daniel do you think this will work with the expert drums 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 , and I assume the rotation is in one direction ??I see it is not compatable with heavy tanks

I'll test it and report. It says it reverses, I use 2500 Multitanks 4&5 (sheet and roll) and European film drums so it should work for me (I hope).
It says it works with the 2500's

[bob carnie]

I'll test it and report. It says it reverses, I use 2500 Multitanks 4&5 (sheet and roll) and European film drums so it should work for me (I hope).

It does have back and forth , looks absolutely perfect except it says cannot handle heavy tanks which is what I want it for. good luck with your tests

[Daniel Unkefer]

Thanks

[Fred L]

Bob,

I'd still be looking at the Stark processor/roller unit. I believe a member here (Greg ?) had one but not sure he's posted an updated review. If I had the spare coin, I would sell my CPP-2 in a heartbeat to get one of these (the long version, esp if it can handle tubes for 7x17).

[Michael R]

I don’t think this will work with Expert drums.


Daniel do you think this will work with the expert drums 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 , and I assume the rotation is in one direction ??I see it is not compatable with heavy tanks

[Greg Blank]

The position of the fuses is because all CPP machines were made as such, they weren't designed to be taken apart by users. I am sorry that seems inconvenient, but the complexity of the circuitry discourages user molestation.

It's generally not advised. The fuses protect the DC components from the AC Power supplied items. The heating element circuitry versus, motor and display. Some of both kinds circuit paths are found upon the same boards.....so if you don't know that
you could get a 110V shock especially with a wet machine.

Why can't CatLabs fix it? At one point I was doing Jobo repairs but both Catlabs and Jobo teamed up and basically made it more difficult and more expensive for me to compete.



I have a CPP3 Jobo unit that is not working properly right now. the control panel is not operating and I am told by Cat Labs who sold it to me that its probably the fuse. Problem in this unit some genius in the factory decided to put the fuses in the guts of the motor unit and taking it apart is not a user friendly issue. I am being told a new motor is going to cost me $3000 to replace which is 2/3 the cost of the machine when I bought it. I believe my unit is the first unit sold in North America. It has low mileage and I feel shipping to Europe will not only be very expensive but also time consuming.
So my question is does anyone here know where I can have a piece of equipment like this looked at and serviced?
best
Bob Carnie