First 8x10 Advice/Suggestions

[Dhanner]

Hi, I am a fairly new member here and have used a 4x5 a few time over the past couple of years. I would now like to venture into an 8x10 field camera.

There are a few nice options available currently that I have found.

1. Wista in like new condition - like the condition and look of this camera, it seems to be a pretty solid bet
2. Deardorff V8m - in moderately used condition, from 1968 but still looks pretty good
3. Gundlach Korona C1 - this is the full kit with the Gundlach triple convertible lens, looks to be mint condition too but seller is asking $1,800 which seems maybe a little steep to me given it’s age.

Would appreciate any thoughts / comments to help this first 8x10 buying decision. Budget is around $3k for camera, a lens, & couple of holders.

Thanks,
Dave

[Mark Sampson]

Check the older wooden cameras for rigidity if you can see them in person. I've owned and used a few 8x10 cameras, none that you mention though. If in good shape, any of those will do a fine job. Size/weight/movements/bellows extension, those are up to you.

[Tin Can]

Those are all nice

But I recently bought https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/products/intrepid-8x10-camera

and like lightweight

don't worry we always buy the wrong camera first

[Vaughn]

The V8 is a classic...and usually priced so. Great cameras, not light. But if the bellows are good and not mis-used in the past (joints tight, hardware in good condition), it should keep its value as well as be an excellent first and last camera (or at least until it is too heavy to carry far afield).

The C1 would be a good price if it was an 11x14. They are light, but lack front movements (except front rise/fall...use your 4x5 without front movements to see how it works for you). I use a 5x7 Eastman No.2 for landscapes and can survive without front movements, but I'd prefer to have them if possible.

The C1 was not designed for a sliding tripod block like my Eastman No.2, so it will help if one can get some support under the front rail hinge to stiffen it up. A large mounting platform on the tripod/tripod head helps.

The Wista I have not used -- most likely a very fine beast, too!

[Scraps]

For me the condition of the bellows is primary.

[Dhanner]

That does seem to be true, doesn’t it :)

[Dhanner]

Thanks, yes the weight of the V8 is a little concern for carrying in the field.

[Bernice Loui]

Place the camera choice at a Much lower priority..

~Top of the priority list is image goals, what kind of images will be made, what will be done with the film post process.. Scanned, contact print, projection enlargement, alternative process or _?_

~Where will these images be made? Outdoors, taken on long hikes or camping trips, strictly in studio with controlled lighting or _?_

~What lenses will be needed to achieve the above image goals? If there is an interest in using lenses in barrel, the camera must be able to support this, if smaller exposure apertures are always used (ala f22 and smaller) why use a whopper sized and weight modern plasmat when a very modest sized Dagor does easily equal or better. Will wide angle lenses be needed, if yes, how short a focal length, will extensive camera movements be needed, does the camera properly support a bag bellows and extensive camera movements front and rear... Or maybe large aperture lenses or soft focus lenses for portraits and other images will be needed... will the camera properly support these needs?

~Then comes what camera might properly support those needs listed above.

~Don't focus on camera first then regretting the camera choice due to it's inability to meet your image goal needs and requirements.

~Keep the tripod, tripod head ala camera support system in mind as it is often one of the most important items in the outfit as with the other bits including the case for this outfit..


Bernice





Hi, I am a fairly new member here and have used a 4x5 a few time over the past couple of years. I would now like to venture into an 8x10 field camera.

There are a few nice options available currently that I have found.

1. Wista in like new condition - like the condition and look of this camera, it seems to be a pretty solid bet
2. Deardorff V8m - in moderately used condition, from 1968 but still looks pretty good
3. Gundlach Korona C1 - this is the full kit with the Gundlach triple convertible lens, looks to be mint condition too but seller is asking $1,800 which seems maybe a little steep to me given it’s age.

Would appreciate any thoughts / comments to help this first 8x10 buying decision. Budget is around $3k for camera, a lens, & couple of holders.

Thanks,
Dave

[Vaughn]

Thanks, yes the weight of the V8 is a little concern for carrying in the field.

At the same time, do not put too much importance on the difference of a kilogram or so between cameras. Everything else that is required will swallow that kilo.

Bernice has a point. If you do not plan on using long lenses (600mm, for example), then a lighter camera without extreme bellows extension would be suitable. But if you are planning on head & shoulder portraits inside, then more bellows extension is what you may want. I have a Zone VI 8x10 that easily handles 600mm at infinity or a bit closer...but not the 710mm lens (maybe if I hang it on the last tooth of the rails). And there can be limitations going the other way (relatively short lenses).

But any of those three cameras would be fine for multiple uses.

[Jeff Keller]

There's a Toyo 810G on ebay for about $1K (I don't know anything about the seller). In general Toyo cameras are excellent but perhaps on the heavy side.

There is an old thread started on the Toyo 810G
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?11276-Toyo-810G-in-the-field

[Robert Opheim]

8x10 gets a lot more expensive to buy and use than 4x5. How much more expensive depends what weight of equipment and what you are producing as a end product. The lenses are usually more expensive and there are a smaller number of them. Obviously different than 4x5, more weight, heavier tripod, bigger everything. Contact print or enlarge? Enlargers are a lot bigger and heavier and a lot more expensive - with lenses too. If a V8 is heavy than I would be concerned - there will be a lot of weight - it does seems to be proportional to expense. OK, the next factor I didn't realize when I started with 8x10 is that there is far less depth-of-field. I wanted more detail more information on my prints. Ignorantly on my part, I thought for example that a wide angle on 8x10 was like a wide angle on 4x5 ( which I had been using for 30 plus years). Depth of field on 8x10 - a 165mm or 155mm lens on 8x10 is the same as it is on 4x5 - not at all like depth of field of a 90mm or 75mm lens on 4x5. So shooting 8x10 is very different. My first 8x10 was an old wood camera (something similar to a Kodak 2D) - it got me started. I wasn't able to control camera movement blur that well so I went to a metal Calumet C-1 which is very heavy 18 pounds. Still 8x10 requires more attentiveness to detail than 4x5 while taking images and printing. Even with a 10 pound camera I would be hauling around 50 pounds plus. All of the advise above comes from seasoned photographers - and is very helpful. I wish you the best journey.

[Dhanner]

There's a Toyo 810G on ebay for about $1K (I don't know anything about the seller). In general Toyo cameras are excellent but perhaps on the heavy side.

There is an old thread started on the Toyo 810G
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?11276-Toyo-810G-in-the-field

Actually did see that one too as it looked a pretty economical way to get an 8x10. I asked the seller on the weight and it is around 15 lbs.

[Dhanner]

8x10 gets a lot more expensive to buy and use than 4x5. How much more expensive depends what weight of equipment and what you are producing as a end product. The lenses are usually more expensive and there are a smaller number of them. Obviously different than 4x5, more weight, heavier tripod, bigger everything. Contact print or enlarge? Enlargers are a lot bigger and heavier and a lot more expensive - with lenses too. If a V8 is heavy than I would be concerned - there will be a lot of weight - it does seems to be proportional to expense. OK, the next factor I didn't realize when I started with 8x10 is that there is far less depth-of-field. I wanted more detail more information on my prints. Ignorantly on my part, I thought for example that a wide angle on 8x10 was like a wide angle on 4x5 ( which I had been using for 30 plus years). Depth of field on 8x10 - a 165mm or 155mm lens on 8x10 is the same as it is on 4x5 - not at all like depth of field of a 90mm or 75mm lens on 4x5. So shooting 8x10 is very different. My first 8x10 was an old wood camera (something similar to a Kodak 2D) - it got me started. I wasn't able to control camera movement blur that well so I went to a metal Calumet C-1 which is very heavy 18 pounds. Still 8x10 requires more attentiveness to detail than 4x5 while taking images and printing. Even with a 10 pound camera I would be hauling around 50 pounds plus. All of the advise above comes from seasoned photographers - and is very helpful. I wish you the best journey.

Thank you for sharing your experience, all great points.

[John Kasaian]

The last time I bought a tennis racquet, I asked a Pro for advice.
He told me to look for one I could picture myself on the court using.
That way I'd be more likely to take it out and use it---if not it will collect dust in the closet, rather than going out and playing the game--- which is the only way to improve.

Maybe 8x10 cameras are kind of like tennis racquets that way.

[Dhanner]

The last time I bought a tennis racquet, I asked a Pro for advice.
He told me to look for one I could picture myself on the court using.
That way I'd be more likely to take it out and use it---if not it will collect dust in the closet, rather than going out and playing the game--- which is the only way to improve.

Maybe 8x10 cameras are kind of like tennis racquets that way.

Excellent way to put it, thanks!

[Thom Bennett]

For an 8x10 field camera I'm a big fan of the Kodak KMV 8x10; essentially a metal Deardorff (same weight and movements) with the added benefits of front shift and quick front extension feature that makes roughing in the focus quick and easy. Using short lenses is no problem and, if you are a fan of long lenses, there is a 1/4/20 hole in the front standard that you can put a tripod or monopod or some other support to keep things steady. I used a Deardorff for over a decade before switching to the KMV. Primary reason was the quick focus feature. Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee used these and for good reason. Also, I think they sell for less than the more prestigious Deardorff. Good luck in your move to 8x10!

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/kodak/masterview.html

[Serge S]

I've always heard good things about those KMV's.The only downside I ever heard was the lens boards are hard to come by, but you can get them made up pretty easily from what I have been told.


For an 8x10 field camera I'm a big fan of the Kodak KMV 8x10; essentially a metal Deardorff (same weight and movements) with the added benefits of front shift and quick front extension feature that makes roughing in the focus quick and easy. Using short lenses is no problem and, if you are a fan of long lenses, there is a 1/4/20 hole in the front standard that you can put a tripod or monopod or some other support to keep things steady. I used a Deardorff for over a decade before switching to the KMV. Primary reason was the quick focus feature. Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee used these and for good reason. Also, I think they sell for less than the more prestigious Deardorff. Good luck in your move to 8x10!

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/kodak/masterview.html

[Thom Bennett]

I've always heard good things about those KMV's.The only downside I ever heard was the lens boards are hard to come by, but you can get them made up pretty easily from what I have been told.

I had S.K. Grimes adapt a Technika board to an original KMV board and mount all my lenses on Technika boards which are very common. Glenn at http://www.glennview.com/ does a conversion to Sinar boards for another option.

[John Kasaian]

Hiking with an 8x10, a tripod that will support an 8x10, a big lens in a big shutter that covers 8x10 and a passel of 8x10 film holders is a very heavy load to carry, so I'll suggest buying the first camera that comes along so you can use it before you get any older.
Just sayin'

[Bernice Loui]

Weight of any 8x10 field folder is nil compared to the weight of all involved with making images. From tripod/tripod head to a stack of film holder, lenses, focusing aids, lenses, light meter and ... easily adds up to a whole lot more than a few extra pounds of camera..

Add to this, using an 8x10 or larger camera outdoors is not easy, specially if environmental conditions get windy.. Stability of the set up remains a top consideration.. and where a light weight camera outfit degrades.. Essentially a lower weight view camera is inherently less stable/rigid and all those factors that aid in image quality..

For a good number of view camera folks 8x10 is considered the "ultimate" sheet film format.. IMO, it's not and more speciality then what that sheet film format offers. The very real and rational trade off is 5x7 / 13x18cm.. which not a lot heavier/bulkier than 4x5 with significantly improved image quality over 4x5, best selection of view camera lenses, easier to deal with than 8x10 and reasonable sized enlargers and related...

Then there is cost of film and all related to that.. which has never been low cost or 8x10 film. Cost of gear rapidly becomes nil compared to the cost of film and related for 8x10 after the first 100 sheets of film.

That said, think every view camera user needs to try 8x10 at least once...

Bernice

[Willie]

Much prefer Deardorffs but use of others is limited.
Uncle told me of his 8z10 start. Kodak Master View because a number of friend used & liked them. He got one and hated it. Almost quit 8x10 because it just did not work for him. Then he lucked into a Deardorff & loved how it handled.
Nothing wrong with the Master View - just one felt right and the other did not. Both take fine images in the hands of many.

As noted Photographer Tillman Crane has said: "One can't own too many Deardorffs".

Whatever you get use it and get fine results.

[Tin Can]

My new photo adventure is on 3 wheels

Waiting on eTrike that will enable my local area

Almost a wheelchair, but I can walk, however don't drive. Bad eyes

Small camera is fine, but my big ones may draw sitters

I prefer to photograph people

I may use flash and flashbulbs Wee Gee (https://www.icp.org/browse/archive/constituents/weegee?all/all/all/all/0) style

That means estimate distance and shoot without focus


One I love, as the people and bar are long lost

Shot handheld at 4am bar closed

[LabRat]

The choice of camera will be mostly based on size/weight and bellows extension/compression needs... Will one be able to practically carry it around, and then there is the FL of the lenses the user will prefer to shoot with normally???

A "normal" (ish) 300mm is lens will require about 12" of extension between lens & film to focus to infinity, but will require double that extension to shoot close up (1:1), so that's how much extension for one FL... Long lenses need their FL bellows distance extension just to shoot infinity, and wides need camera/bellows to compress enough to shoot infinity... So a bigger/heavier camera that can extend long enough would be needed for those extensions, and a nearly closed compact camera for wides... Then there's movements available on a camera model, remember less DOF & camera movements less pronounced with larger formats...

So first, really figure the FL you normally will shoot with and calculate how much the camera extension/compressions you would need and select cameras "by the numbers"... Decide early what would be your "only" FL (on a desert island) and basically stick to that... It's very easy to get "blinded by choice" of wanting it to do "everything", but start by narrowing down right in the beginning...

Steve K

[Dhanner]

Weight of any 8x10 field folder is nil compared to the weight of all involved with making images. From tripod/tripod head to a stack of film holder, lenses, focusing aids, lenses, light meter and ... easily adds up to a whole lot more than a few extra pounds of camera..

Add to this, using an 8x10 or larger camera outdoors is not easy, specially if environmental conditions get windy.. Stability of the set up remains a top consideration.. and where a light weight camera outfit degrades.. Essentially a lower weight view camera is inherently less stable/rigid and all those factors that aid in image quality..

For a good number of view camera folks 8x10 is considered the "ultimate" sheet film format.. IMO, it's not and more speciality then what that sheet film format offers. The very real and rational trade off is 5x7 / 13x18cm.. which not a lot heavier/bulkier than 4x5 with significantly improved image quality over 4x5, best selection of view camera lenses, easier to deal with than 8x10 and reasonable sized enlargers and related...

Then there is cost of film and all related to that.. which has never been low cost or 8x10 film. Cost of gear rapidly becomes nil compared to the cost of film and related for 8x10 after the first 100 sheets of film.

That said, think every view camera user needs to try 8x10 at least once...

Bernice

Thanks Bernice for sharing your thoughts here. I definitely see the advantage of the bit heavier setups outdoors, one reason I am avoiding the Intrepid though they are low cost. I recently acquired an old 5x7 camera in great condition and I see your point on that format as well. Detail on my first couple of shots with it was amazing.

Thanks,
Dave

[Dhanner]

For an 8x10 field camera I'm a big fan of the Kodak KMV 8x10; essentially a metal Deardorff (same weight and movements) with the added benefits of front shift and quick front extension feature that makes roughing in the focus quick and easy. Using short lenses is no problem and, if you are a fan of long lenses, there is a 1/4/20 hole in the front standard that you can put a tripod or monopod or some other support to keep things steady. I used a Deardorff for over a decade before switching to the KMV. Primary reason was the quick focus feature. Michael A. Smith and Paula Chamlee used these and for good reason. Also, I think they sell for less than the more prestigious Deardorff. Good luck in your move to 8x10!

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/kodak/masterview.html

I did briefly conider that one too. There is one on eBay now that is comparable in price to the Deardorff I was considering. Definitely looks very sturdy and well built. Thank you for your thoughts on them.

Dave

[ericantonio]

I'm selling a 8x10 KVM this year, I have way too much stuff. DM me for photos and stuff. Why selling? I have a cambo 8x10 and Intrepid.

[Greg]

For years I used Burke & James Commercial wooden 8x10. The camera never let me down. You can get one for around $500 and spend the res of your money on a lenses or lenses. 12" f/4.5 Wollensak Velostigmat in a Betax (without the variable diffusion on the front of the lens) is a pleasure to focus (with its f/4.5 max aperture) and compose with on the GG and at f/45 produces a wonderfully sharp image.

[jp]

I'd figure out which lenses and shutters you plan to use, then buy a camera that works for that.
(I have a B&J field camera and a B&J Rembrandt 8x10)

[John Kasaian]

I have to admit a fondness for my Deardorff.
I find working with it is very intuitive and besides, when the light isn't cooperating I'll often sit down on a boulder or stump and try to imagine the stories that old camera could tell.
I hope your 8x10, whatever the make, gives you as much pleasure.

[Drew Bedo]

My fikrst 8X10 was a Kodak 2D. Doesn't have all the movements up front, but it was the right price and it go me into LF photography.

They still are still thousands below other cameras in price and are commonly available on e-Bay.

The Kodak 2D is a great steppingstone into LF imaging.

[Dugan]

The Calumet C1 is a nice camera, but hernia-inducing...even the "lightweight" green one.

[Tin Can]

It also can be difficult with short lenses

While it can focus very short or long lenses, short becomes a PITA

[John Earley]

One more option is the Gibellini BELLATRIX 810 8x10 View Camera. I have one that I really like. Freestyle sells them @ about $1350.

[Dhanner]

One more option is the Gibellini BELLATRIX 810 8x10 View Camera. I have one that I really like. Freestyle sells them @ about $1350.

I have looked at those. Wasn't sure about the 3D printed parts and the overall quality though compared to their more expensive models.

[Serge S]

Have you considered the Intrepid?
I think a few members here have purchased one?

[Peter De Smidt]

I would get an Intrepid. The current version is a very useable camera, and it's super light. Use it for a year or so, and then you can decide if you'd like something different. If not, you're set! If yes, then you'll likely be able to sell it for very little loss. Think of it as a rental fee.

[Len Middleton]

It also can be difficult with short lenses

While it can focus very short or long lenses, short becomes a PITA

Indeed an issue with tailboard style cameras as the front standard is fixed in its position on the rail.

Certainly I did not like the rear rail in my chest or neck when trying to use any short lens with my C1 Green Monster...

[Len Middleton]

I would get an Intrepid. The current version is a very useable camera, and it's super light. Use it for a year or so, and then you can decide if you'd like something different. If not, you're set! If yes, then you'll likely be able to sell it for very little loss. Think of it as a rental fee.

As noted by many and experienced by myself, your first 8x10 is unlikely to be your last, as you learn what works and what doesn't, what you like, and what features you tend to use that are a real PITA to use.

I agree with Peter's philosophy above; buy well and consider the difference between the price paid and the price sold, as either rent or education, or compensation for the PITA using it, if you selected poorly...

[paulbarden]

I have the most recent iteration of the Intrepid 8x10.
I also have a 1930's Deardorff 8x10.

Guess which one gets used more? (It ain't the Deardorff!)

[Dhanner]

I have the most recent iteration of the Intrepid 8x10.
I also have a 1930's Deardorff 8x10.

Guess which one gets used more? (It ain't the Deardorff!)

It would certainly be worth a try. The 8 week delivery time is what has kept me from ordering one. A friend of mine ordered one t the beginning of December and is still waiting on it. He already has another 8x10 though and that is just going to be a second.

[John Kasaian]

What lens are you considering using?

[Dhanner]

What lens are you considering using?

John, well I actually just won an eBay auction for a beautiful mint condition Wista which comes with a Caltar HR 300mm F5.6 lens. So I will be starting with the 300mm for now. I will probably pick up something a little wider (240 or 250 maybe), depending on how the 300 works out. I don’t generally shoot much beyond the typical “50mm” (in 35mm) equivalent lens.

[Peter De Smidt]

Enjoy the camera! Don't use much force on view camera controls.

[Dhanner]

Enjoy the camera! Don't use much force on view camera controls.

Thanks Peter, will certainly be easy with it!