Overall length and spacing of the Schneider 210mm 6.8 Angulon lens

[lassethomas]

OK, so I'm a bit confused and hope someone can help me out but I'm afraid this is, in the best of cases, sort of a fuzzy thing.

Anyway, I got this 210mm 6.8 Angulon (serial 3840945) in very good condition in a barel mount for $70, a more than fair price.
The barrel could be the original barrel. It has an aperture calibrated for f 6.8, is marked "210" and "made in Germany".
The overall length of the lens in the barrel is 47,5 mm (more about that later)

I could put it front of my Packard shutter, but mounting in a proper shutter would be more fun of course.

It's from here it gets a bit complicated so bare with me.

First, the lens cells has a thread of 56mm 0.75 mm (really 29 1/13 tpi).

This works with the original Compound 3-X Tube 7 shutter.
Thing is that I have no such shutter. Too bad.
What I have is a Copal #3S that have the same cell threads. So in theory, and practice, the 210 mm Angolan cells can be mounted in a Copal #3S shutter. Great!

But then we come down to cell spacing and conflicting information. And the consequences of that information.
I can find two official information on the overall length of the lens:

- A sales brochure from 1963 https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/00832/00832.pdf that states (page 8) that the overall length is 45.8 mm. This is not possible to achieve mounted on a Copal #3S shutter since the back cell then will conflict with the aperture. The closest you can get is about 46.5 mm.
- The information published on Schneiders old web and remembered by the wayback machine https://web.archive.org/web/20150910173209/http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/angulon/data/6,8-210mm.html. Here the overall length is recorded as 48 mm. It would not fit directly in a #3S with this spacing but you could design a thread extension to achieve it.So it's possible with a little bit of machine work or high quality 3D printing.

So which is it? My barrel is is neither but would be closer to 48 mm.
Anyone?

[MAubrey]

I can measure mine with calipers when I get home from work if no one beats me to it.

[lassethomas]

I can measure mine with calipers when I get home from work if no one beats me to it.

Yes, please do! Thanks!

[Vaidotas]

Maybe the different lenght says more about different cells casings design and not related to the cells spacing?
I can confirm prewar barrel 40 mm lenght but cell casings are very compact, they protrude about 1 mm from the barrel edge. Thread is the same as yours.

[lassethomas]

Maybe the different lenght says more about different cells casings design and not related to the cells spacing?
I can confirm prewar barrel 40 mm lenght but cell casings are very compact, they protrude about 1 mm from the barrel edge. Thread is the same as yours.

Well, if casings design was changed along the way then all odds are off of course
But I found no indication that the case design change in the years we are talking about

Mine is made in 1954.

I have published information from 1963 that the length should be 45,8 and from the second half of the 60's that it should be 48. The same for shutter and barrel.
In both these cases the shutter, the weight, dimensions and all other info is exactly the same. The only thing that differs at all is the overall length.

234269 234270

I more and more is starting to think that the 45.8 figure is a typo. 48mm can also be verified in more places over the years.

[LabRat]

I have one of the same era (50's) coated, factory mounted in the Compound 3 shutter in nice shape, but currently buried in storage... Yes, this was the standard shutter for it...

Before you get too ambitious with it, it is in the barrel and you should conduct extensive testing with it to make sure the barrel distances are correct and you like the performance and is set correctly before you mount into shutter...

Mount on a lensboard, and shoot it on a camera with about a 1 second exposure you can flag in front of the lens and check the overall field definition (which would be not good if any spacing errors) before any next steps... (Photographing a lens test chart or a large sheet of fine printed newsprint should be a good quick test...)

Good luck!!!

Steve K

[lassethomas]

I have one of the same era (50's) coated, factory mounted in the Compound 3 shutter in nice shape, but currently buried in storage... Yes, this was the standard shutter for it...

Before you get too ambitious with it, it is in the barrel and you should conduct extensive testing with it to make sure the barrel distances are correct and you like the performance and is set correctly before you mount into shutter...

Mount on a lensboard, and shoot it on a camera with about a 1 second exposure you can flag in front of the lens and check the overall field definition (which would be not good if any spacing errors) before any next steps... (Photographing a lens test chart or a large sheet of fine printed newsprint should be a good quick test...)

Good luck!!!

Steve K

Well, I did mount it on the shutter. Designed and printed a thread extension for 48 mm spacing. So now it's on a Copal #3S. In itself a bit cool perhaps.
Will take a few test shots now. QC was ok at best at the time from what I've heard.
And I've had several 90mm with widely different IQ.

[mhayashi]

Lasse, here are my late copal 3 sample overall height measurements.
9031185 47.50mm
9031257 47.51mm
9110604 47.51mm
234389
I hope it helps.
Best,
Masayoshi

[MAubrey]

Lasse, here are my late copal 3 sample overall height measurements.
9031185 47.50mm
9031257 47.51mm
9110604 47.51mm
234389
I hope it helps.
Best,
Masayoshi

Mine is also a late one. 47.5 is what I have, too.

[lassethomas]

Lasse, here are my late copal 3 sample overall height measurements.
9031185 47.50mm
9031257 47.51mm
9110604 47.51mm
234389
I hope it helps.
Best,
Masayoshi


Mine is also a late one. 47.5 is what I have, too.

And 47.5 was exactly what I measured with the original barrel.
I've remounted it with 48mm (as in most specs) now in a Copal #3S.
Will test it and see and perhaps try 47.5 too if result are disappointing.

Many thanks for helping out.

[lassethomas]

Just a quick follow-up.
As I said i designed and printed a thread extension for 48 mm spacing and mounted it on a Copal #3S.
And at last got to take a few 8x10 test shots.

And I'm surprised how well they look. Sharp in the center and more than useably sharp in the corners at f32.
Focus plane seems fairly flat.
So the odd value of 45.8 that I found seems to be wrong. I was just unlucky to find that first.

So a 210mm/6.8 Angulon works well in a Copal #3S with a thread extension for the rear cell to bring it to a 48 mm spacing front to back.

[Arthur Nichols]

Can someone please tell me the coverage of a 210mm Angulon?
TIA

[Mark Sampson]

You can find archived data for older Schneider lenses in the "blogs" section of Photrio.com; someone copied them from the now-gone Schneider site.
They say that the 210 Angulon has a FOV of 85 degrees, and has an image circle of 382mm @infinity, at f/16. So full coverage, with some movements available, on 8x10.

[Greg]

Question... Was cell spacing done on individual lenses to optimize their sharpness or was it done across the board?

Bob, did Linhof custom space their individual lenses? I once read that they did just that, but I seriously doubt that.