Amidol trouble shooting

[RTucker]

Last week I mixed up some Edward Weston Amidol paper developer. Had great success printing on Azo paper. This week I took 1000ml of working solution, and added the packet of 9 grams of amidol to the developer, and tried to print on Ilford warmtone FB paper. Developed for three minutes. No luck, I could not get contrast or even blacks, it was like the developer was exhausted even though I just mixed it up. Am I missing something, or does amidol only work with Azo type papers. Any thoughts.

[Alan9940]

I know Michael A. Smith lists a different formula for Amidol for enlarging papers vs Azo types. You might look it up on his website and compare to what you're using.

[Michael R]

Need some clarity on what you mixed. It reads like you took a week-old working Amidol solution and added 9g of Amidol powder, but that approach is not likely to work well.

I would first mix a new working solution from scratch and try again, giving full development time (2 minutes as a starting point but some experimentation might be required).

[LabRat]

Amidol formulas have a low capacity and short working life... In a tray, life can be much less than hours... You need to move fast as you will see solution turning dark oxidized, and changes happen quickly, especially if you are printing exact multiples of the same image... And mix just before use, don't store stock or used solutions...

Steve K

[j.e.simmons]

Here is the link to Michael A. Smith’s amidol formulas
http://michaelandpaula.com/mp/Azo_Formulas.html

Look through the website for more of his thoughts on amidol.

[RTucker]

It was the Photographers Formulary four liter kit. I mixes up the four liters of stock last week, and used one liter with one packet of amidol. This week I took my second liter, added one package of amidol. It turned dark right away,

[Alan9940]

It was the Photographers Formulary four liter kit. I mixes up the four liters of stock last week, and used one liter with one packet of amidol. This week I took my second liter, added one package of amidol. It turned dark right away,

I've never used the Formulary kit, but I believe Amidol working solution should be mixed fresh from scratch with each darkroom session, then tossed. Another possible culprit in your issues is the Amidol itself. If it's gray, then it's Chinese Amidol vs the much better-quality white English Amidol. I had other issues with the gray Amidol and stopped using it.

[Michael R]

It was the Photographers Formulary four liter kit. I mixes up the four liters of stock last week, and used one liter with one packet of amidol. This week I took my second liter, added one package of amidol. It turned dark right away,

Ok I see now. It’s the one where you mix a 4l stock solution of sulfite, citric acid and bromide and then add the Amidol each time you make a 1l working solution. When you made the first working solution last week did it also turn dark right away?

Several things are possible. Perhaps a bad package of amidol, or the sulfite in the stock solution might have oxidized, or the formula needs adjustment to work well with Ilford Warmtone. An interesting test would have been to try Azo with the second working solution to see if it worked like the first working solution. I’m surprised your Azo is still in working condition but that’s another story.

I suggest contacting Formulary to see if they have a solution to the problem.

[Drew Wiley]

Amidol works superbly on some papers, especially the old graded bromide ones, now nearly extinct, as well as certain cold tone VC papers, but NOT well on some other papers including MGWT. Last time I asked, Formulary themselves had that wretched Chinese amidol in stock. It works, but stains terribly; and takes seemingly forever to wash out the orange stain. I get the good Euro powder from Artcraft in NYC. It's black, not white. I've never heard of, or seen, white amidol; even pharmaceutical amidol is black (perhaps you're confusing it with glycin, Alan?). Once you actually add amidol powder to your precursor solution, it's only good for a single day's session, provided you have some kind of antioxidant in there. I use citric acid, which makes the solution acidic rather than basic, so a plain water stop bath is required.

[Alan9940]

I've never heard of, or seen, white amidol; even pharmaceutical amidol is black (perhaps you're confusing it with glycin, Alan?).

Yes, sorry, I just mixed up some Ansco 130, yesterday, and my old brain just misfired! ;)

[Drew Wiley]

Well, I've got my jar of amidol and "user" jar of glycin on the same shelf, so the color difference is stark. My unopened reserve bottles of glycin powder are kept in the freezer, which is important. But since 130 is now my main go-to developer, best suited to today's selection of papers, I rarely mix amidol anymore.

[Jim Noel]

I've never used the Formulary kit, but I believe Amidol working solution should be mixed fresh from scratch with each darkroom session, then tossed. Another possible culprit in your issues is the Amidol itself. If it's gray, then it's Chinese Amidol vs the much better-quality white English Amidol. I had other issues with the gray Amidol and stopped using it.

You are correct. If the developer from Formulary isn't mixed up fresh, it is exhausted from the beginning.

[Drew Wiley]

I don't know if the contaminant in the Chinese amidol was ever positively identified. One rumor is that it was batched in nickel pots. When cheap equals worthless, it's not a bargain anymore.

[Michael R]

Fresh and uncontaminated amidol should be white or a bluish grey. Darker grey indicates deterioration and the darker it is etc. Similar for glycin. Fresh it should be a light colour ranging from white to grey or even beige/tan. The more it goes off the darker brown it gets.


Amidol works superbly on some papers, especially the old graded bromide ones, now nearly extinct, as well as certain cold tone VC papers, but NOT well on some other papers including MGWT. Last time I asked, Formulary themselves had that wretched Chinese amidol in stock. It works, but stains terribly; and takes seemingly forever to wash out the orange stain. I get the good Euro powder from Artcraft in NYC. It's black, not white. I've never heard of, or seen, white amidol; even pharmaceutical amidol is black (perhaps you're confusing it with glycin, Alan?). Once you actually add amidol powder to your precursor solution, it's only good for a single day's session, provided you have some kind of antioxidant in there. I use citric acid, which makes the solution acidic rather than basic, so a plain water stop bath is required.

[Drew Wiley]

Since when? Glycin is an entirely different topic. I first bought my amidol from a pharmaceutical and research lab supplier where even the counter help had phD's, and was told that photo amidol had to be even higher purity than medical. It was black. Always has been. No issues at all. But glycin is what changes behavior as it oxidizes and progressively goes from off-white to mocha to deep chocolate. Once it's past mocha, it tends to stain even the paper base and becomes worthless to me. Reserve stock has to be kept frozen. Amidol is not like that at all. As long as the powder has been kept dry, it doesn't seem to make any difference if it's been on the shelf a month or for twenty years. If you folks north of the Border had understood that with respect to gunpowder, maybe your ancestors wouldn't have lost our Revolutionary War; it starts black and stays black too - just keep it dry in the meantime. But no, I haven't tried amidol in a flintlock yet.

[Michael R]

Since always. Light grey-ish is what it would look like if you got it directly, fresh. What you typically get from photochem retailers is darker probably because it sits around for a while. The darker it is the more impure/decomposed/oxidized it is and black is junk. It’s a potent enough developing agent that even the black crap probably has enough juice to sort of work, though results will vary - not that anyone will notice because we often see what we want to see anyway. ;)


Since when? Glycin is an entirely different topic. I first bought my amidol from a pharmaceutical and research lab supplier where even the counter help had phD's, and was told that photo amidol had to be even higher purity than medical. It was black. Always has been. No issues at all. But glycin is what changes behavior as it oxidizes and progressively goes from off-white to mocha to deep chocolate. Once it's past mocha, it tends to stain even the paper base and becomes worthless to me. Reserve stock has to be kept frozen. Amidol is not like that at all. As long as the powder has been kept dry, it doesn't seem to make any difference if it's been on the shelf a month or for twenty years. If you folks north of the Border had understood that with respect to gunpowder, maybe your ancestors wouldn't have lost our Revolutionary War; it starts black and stays black too - just keep it dry in the meantime. But no, I haven't tried amidol in a cannon yet.

[Drew Wiley]

They were shipping it in directly from the Spectra plant, as fresh and good as it gets. Black right from the start. The Brit amidol I was getting in recent years was also fresh and black. After the Chinese amidol fiasco, getting high quality amidol was a priority. And ALL my results with amidol, with the exception of the Chinese variety, have been TOTALLY PREDICTABLE, even if the jar of powder was 15 yrs old. Is it possible you're confusing this whole issue with oxidation during the development session itself, due to lack of something which sufficiently inhibits oxidation? Sodium Sulfite won't do that by itself. What formula are you using anyway? The same for Canadian root beer?

But I'm not gonna get into some Zone System style argument whether the color should be Zone 1 black, or Z2 deep gray, or so-so Z3. The exact depth of color doesn't seem to have much to do with it. Certain other developers like metol can shift quite a bit in that respect, and still work predictably. Others can't. Where I bought it for a long time even carried several different quality grades. They were surrounded by biotech and pharmaceutical R&D plants, the University too, and had a superb reputation for professionalism. Possibly the best house in the country for photo chem too at the time, only ten or so blocks from my office; but long gone now due to a family death. Three family members, plus two counter assistants - every one of them a Chem phD.

[Michael R]

I don’t use it. It does nothing special that can’t be done otherwise. Regarding the colour, not sure what to tell you but black is most certainly not fresh. If it’s working it’s working. With some compounds you can sort of get away with garbage (aside from the pain in the ass, staining etc.). P-aminophenol is kind of like that. Fresh p-aminophenol HCL should be white or with a violet tinge. The stuff formulary sells is dark purple, which is technically bad but you can still get an image. Actually amidol is a derivative of p-aminophenol.

In ye olde timey times when amidol was somewhat relevant and Kodak sold high quality bulk chemicals they called their amidol “Dolmi”.


They were shipping it in directly from the Spectra plant, as fresh and good as it gets. Black right from the start. The Brit amidol I was getting in recent years was also fresh and black. After the Chinese amidol fiasco, getting high quality amidol was a priority. And ALL my results with amidol, with the exception of the Chinese variety, have been TOTALLY PREDICTABLE, even if the jar of powder was 15 yrs old. Is it possible you're confusing this whole issue with oxidation during the development session itself, due to lack of something which sufficiently inhibits oxidation? Sodium Sulfite won't do that by itself. What formula are you using anyway? The same for Canadian root beer?

[Drew Wiley]

Fortunately, Formulary makes their own glycin, so it can be obtained fresh, and should be. But unopened bottles of powder can be kept fresh if frozen. It's actually a fun developing agent if timed to the color of the powder. Once its starts going mocha, maybe after 8 months on the shelf in my case, it's still entirely usable, but has a slightly different stain effect on the highlights. For cold-tone images followed by gold toner, I use it only relatively fresh. Once it goes deep chocolate, too late.

The heyday of amidol coincided not only with Azo, but with the great graded bromide papers of the past. I have enough of it left on hand to last the rest of my life probably, if another really suitable paper itself ever turns up again.

[Willie]

Amidol formulas have a low capacity and short working life... In a tray, life can be much less than hours... You need to move fast as you will see solution turning dark oxidized, and changes happen quickly, especially if you are printing exact multiples of the same image... And mix just before use, don't store stock or used solutions...

Steve K

Amidol does have a relatively short working life - you generally can't cover and get started using it the next morning after the first session.
But "low capacity"? Have not seen that. Went to a demonstration of it in a working darkroom and watched a mixed two litre batch(Michael A. Smith formulation) develop 93 8x10 contact prints.

[agregov]

I would mix Amidol based paper developer by hand and use for your developing session. To the earlier points, MS has a formula for VC papers--different than for Lodima/Azo. That said, Ansco 130 works equally well for both Azo and VC papers. It also lasts a long time (~six months). I find Amidol slightly warmer than Ansco 130 but nothing you can't add back with toning if you desire. 130 is an excellent paper developer--I use it for all my b&w work.

[Drew Wiley]

My brew lasts about 6 hrs of tray life - a decent work session. But when it finally crashes, it crashes fast. I suspect that has less to do with capacity than a threshold of oxidation. But I used a quite different and more economical amidol prescription for bromide projection papers than Michael S. used for Azo contact prints.