Probably a dumb question - how to see or adjust LF aperture from behind the camera?

[gdi]

Recently I have committed to shooting more LF and find myself in situations where it is impractical or even risky to walk to the front of the camera to change the aperture. For example at the edge of a drop off or rocky stream. Since there are no click stops on the shutters are there any tricks for
doing this? Maybe something as simple as a dental mirror?

Thanks

[Pieter]

Recently I have committed to shooting more LF and find myself in situations where it is impractical or even risky to walk to the front of the camera to change the aperture. For example at the edge of a drop off or rocky stream. Since there are no click stops on the shutters are there any tricks for
doing this? Maybe something as simple as a dental mirror?

Thanks
It seems to me if it isn too risky to step in front of the camera, it might be just as risky to try using a dental or other inspection mirror. I would suggest a strong panorama mount that would allow you to rotate the camera to face you, set the aperture and return the camera to its original position.

[gdi]

Thanks.

While I don’t have a pano head (and I am not really familiar with them, since I shoot panorama cameras), I do have a strong three axis geared head, but I don’t think I could maintain my composition rotating it back and forth - it has an angle gauge but it is hard to read and not always visible. Maybe a good properly leveled pano head would be accurate enough to work. I need to do some research I suppose.

[Pieter]

Thanks.

While I don’t have a pano head (and I am not really familiar with them, since I shoot panorama cameras), I do have a strong three axis geared head, but I don’t think I could maintain my composition rotating it back and forth - it has an angle gauge but it is hard to read and not always visible. Maybe a good properly leveled pano head would be accurate enough to work. I need to do some research I suppose.

A grease pencil or a bit of tape and a sharpie should help you return the camera to position. Just move one axis if possible.

[gdi]

Great idea! Thanks for the great idea!

I’ll give it a try on my next outing.

[Alan9940]

I've used a piece of tape to mark the head position before swinging the camera around, but I've used the same lenses for so long that I can generally guesstimate the aperture by feel. Probably not dead on, but close enough for the B&W film that I shoot.

[Alan Klein]

Recently I have committed to shooting more LF and find myself in situations where it is impractical or even risky to walk to the front of the camera to change the aperture. For example at the edge of a drop off or rocky stream. Since there are no click stops on the shutters are there any tricks for
doing this? Maybe something as simple as a dental mirror?

Thanks

Reminds me of the joke of the guy who went to his doctor. "Every time I raise my right arm like this, my shoulder hurts like hell. What should I do?"
"Stop raising your arm like that," responded the doctor.

[Alan Klein]

Thanks.

While I don’t have a pano head (and I am not really familiar with them, since I shoot panorama cameras), I do have a strong three axis geared head, but I don’t think I could maintain my composition rotating it back and forth - it has an angle gauge but it is hard to read and not always visible. Maybe a good properly leveled pano head would be accurate enough to work. I need to do some research I suppose.

How about an erasable grease pencil? You mark it before you turn it to face you then turn it back and line up the marks.

[xkaes]

Invite your brother-in-law along -- ostensibly to learn about LF photography -- and hope the jerk falls off the cliff.

Did I say "push"?

[Tin Can]

Better copy this in case you...


Invite your brother-in-law along -- ostensibly to learn about LF photography -- and hope the jerk falls off the cliff.

Did I say "push"?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Probably not relevant, but Sinar Shutters (Norma Green or Modern Black), and Sinar "Rabbit Ear" Lens Boards, allow setting shutter speed and aperture from behind the camera. There are basically four levels to the system; Barrel Mount with No Automation , Barrel or Regular Shutter Mount, with Aperture Cable Only (Direct Operating), and finally the Deluxe, Rabbit Ears with spring-loaded aperture control (this last one stops down the lens to taking aperture when you close the shutter blades. Deluxe Deluxe is shutter cable, closes the shutter and stops down the lens, when you insert a plate in the camera back. These do work well for me, I have some of each. I appreciated the operating speed when I was shooting in fleeting light

[gdi]

How about an erasable grease pencil? You mark it before you turn it to face you then turn it back and line up the marks.

Yeah, that was Pieter’s suggestion as well

[gdi]

Probably not relevant, but Sinar Shutters (Norma Green or Modern Black), and Sinar "Rabbit Ear" Lens Boards, allow setting shutter speed and aperture from behind the camera. There are basically three levels to the system; Barrel Mount with No Automation , Barrel Mount with Aperture Cable Only (Direct Operating), and finally the Deluxe, Rabbit Ears with spring-loaded aperture control (this last one stops down the lens to taking aperture when you close the shutter blades. Deluxe Deluxe is shutter cable, closes the shutter and stops down the lens, when you insert a plate in the camera back. These do work well for me, I have some of each. I appreciated the operating speed when I was shooting in fleeting light

Interesting - I have not seen that variation.

[Bernice Loui]

Question/problem was solved decades ago by Sinar shutter with Sinar DB/DBM mount lenses.

Sinar DB mount lenses have built in aperture only with the shutter mounted on camera. When used in combo, the lenses are full lens aperture at rest. The exposure aperture is set using a scale on the side of the shutter. Inserting the film holder into the GG back film holder slot presses on a cable linked to the shutter. This closes the shutter aperture blades preparing the shutter for film exposure. Pressing on the shutter's cable release winds the shutter, stops down the lens aperture to the f-stop set on the side dial, cycles the shutter to the set exposure time. Releasing the shutter cable resets the shutter and lens for another exposure cycle. Once the exposure aperture is set on the Sinar shutter scale, there is no need to reach at the front of the lens (nothing on the lens to set anyway), just the shutter open button on the side and cable release. This system is faster to use with the ability to reduce film into camera exposure errors due to forgetting to stop down the lens, close the shutter before exposure..

This Sinar system works on Sinar Norma to P/P2/X/F/F+/F1/F2..
Sinar lens/shutter brochure:
https://www.pacificrimcamera.com/rl/02097/02097.pdf

233746

233747

DB/DBM mount lenses & lens in shutter.
233748


Berince

[Tin Can]

Deardorff Studio Cameras had optional levers and knobs to adjust everything from behind decades before SINAR

Hard to find with all bells and whistles, 2 for sale right now, not me, Blue Moon has one

Tilts, swings even aperture, bulb and hose shutter allows any position

Front and rear focus

I considered adding complications last decade

Now it's exercise

Mine shoots to 75" bellows, to high ceiling, 5X7, 8X 10, 11X14 and upside down

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123936751_72af467f1a_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/385j29b3u5)Upside down Macro (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/385j29b3u5) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[xkaes]

Trade in all my gear for a Sinar or Deardorff? It's a lot simpler to just hire my brother-in-law!

[Bernice Loui]

The brother-in-law has the option of push to "dispose"

:eek:
Bernice



Trade in all my gear for a Sinar or Deardorff? It's a lot simpler to just hire my brother-in-law!

[jnantz]

people who are vision impaired sometimes have raised dots that have an adhesive. you might think about putting on on your shutter so either it stops your fstop ring or you know where to move it to from behind the camera. that said I documented a quarry and was on the rim 300 feet from the floor. I wore a rock climbing diaper and was attached to a deadman or tree so I wouldn't fall far. I always went around the camera to adjust the fstop. you might consider safety equipment if you are in a dangerous situation. the strap they used could take a 2000lbs dead drop.

[xkaes]

The brother-in-law has the option of push to "dispose"

:eek:
Bernice


And in defense, you can always state, "I always thought he was a clumsy fellow!"

[xkaes]

With short lenses, you can look over the top of the camera pretty easily, but with long lenses that is nearly impossible -- unless you are Simone Biles.

Fortunately, when I'm near the edge of a cliff, I'm usually using a wide lens -- or if not, I can move back a foot or two to negate the problem -- and bump into my brother-in-law at the same time, by mistake, of course.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51919961265_f2db917a07_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2n6ZnBX)5x7 TLR Norma 300mm Symmar matched pair (https://flic.kr/p/2n6ZnBX) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

See the Mickey Mouse Cables? You can see that from behind the camera, it's easy to read the f/stop off of the color coded aperture cable. See the shutter speed scale on the shutter up top? It's also imprinted on the back side. Simple and it works without fuss. BTW these are both the Deluxe Deluxe spring loaded aperture controlled versions. On the lensbaord, see the little black lever with the red dot on it? Flip that and it stops the lens down to the preselected aperture. Simple brilliant mechanism and it works without fuss or bother.

After a while you could operate this camera blindfolded. Sinar Norma had an ad in the day, with a Guy in a blindfold, happily operating the Norma

[Alan Klein]

Ask Ansel Adams how he did it.
233775

[Tin Can]

my lackey does all the magic

[Chuck Pere]

Maybe you can use a smart phone front camera to look at the f-stop adjustment numbers. Just use some kind of wrist strap so you don't drop the phone over the cliff.

[Jim Noel]

To properly set up a camera on a tripod, the tripod itself should be level. Doing so simplifies situations such as you mention. I do it for EVERY shot so I'm always in practice,
With the tripod level, most heads will allow it (the head) to be rotated thus placing the front of the camera to face the operator. Before rotating, note carefully the image along one of the edges Make the adjustment, try the shutter, rotate back to the front and even stopped down there is enough light on the ground glass to reset to original position. Load the film, remove the dark slide and fire the shutter.

[neil poulsen]

Here's an idea . . .

If you're on the edge of a precipice (hopefully still), then depth of field is probably not a problem. Suppose the correct aperture is f22. Then open the aperture to f8 to focus the camera, and it's easy enough to hold (without falling?) a two stop neutral density filter in front of the lens to expose the negative.

Maybe (??) the ND filter will have some slight effect on the final image? But, at least you'll be around to see the photograph after it's been processed.

Of if black and white, one could use a yellow filter with enough of an ND filter to make up the difference. For example, a Wratten 8 yellow has a 1 stop filter factor. So this filter, and a one stop ND filter would be needed to expose the negative.

[xkaes]

To properly set up a camera on a tripod, the tripod itself should be level.

The last time my tripod was level was when I was in Neverland.

[xkaes]

Here's an idea . . .

If you're on the edge of a precipice (hopefully still), then depth of field is probably not a problem.

We must be on different planets. You've never been to the America South West.

[gdi]

Thanks for all the ideas !

I’m not talking about photos on the edge of cliffs usually, but more like at the edge of a river with bolders and slippery rocks to negotiate - the risk is getting wet or maybe a broken ankle and/or camera.

I think my tripod head will be accurate enough to swing to adjust and then swing back to the original composition (or damn close to it). I may need to mark it though it has some rough indexing that should get me close. Or maybe I need to move to longer lenses and shoot from a nice flat car roof!

Many thanks!

[gdi]

Deardorff Studio Cameras had optional levers and knobs to adjust everything from behind decades before SINAR

Hard to find with all bells and whistles, 2 for sale right now, not me, Blue Moon has one

Tilts, swings even aperture, bulb and hose shutter allows any position

Front and rear focus

I considered adding complications last decade

Now it's exercise

Mine shoots to 75" bellows, to high ceiling, 5X7, 8X 10, 11X14 and upside down

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51123936751_72af467f1a_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/385j29b3u5)Upside down Macro (https://www.flickr.com/gp/tincancollege/385j29b3u5) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

I’m gonna need a bigger backpack.

[Tin Can]

500 made, for Wards and Sears catalogs

They each had 100 set up, being used constantly in one room, Chicago, NYC

I almost got inside the big studio before condos

Rumour was 100 came out of NYC when DIGI killed the Radio Star




I’m gonna need a bigger backpack.

[Dugan]

DIGI killed the Radio Star

Nice 'The Buggles' reference, Randy!
:)

[Alan Klein]

To properly set up a camera on a tripod, the tripod itself should be level. Doing so simplifies situations such as you mention. I do it for EVERY shot so I'm always in practice,
With the tripod level, most heads will allow it (the head) to be rotated thus placing the front of the camera to face the operator. Before rotating, note carefully the image along one of the edges Make the adjustment, try the shutter, rotate back to the front and even stopped down there is enough light on the ground glass to reset to original position. Load the film, remove the dark slide and fire the shutter.

Jim Have you worked with those leveling bowls that allow you to level the camera with the bowl rather than having to mess around with the tripod legs? Are they worth it? I never can level the legs which require me to use the three way head if I pan the camera.

[Merg Ross]

Ask Ansel Adams how he did it.
233775

For shutter a Packard, lens stop by feel. Worked pretty well for me. Lassen Park, CA 1967

.233836

[Alan Klein]

For shutter a Packard, lens stop by feel. Worked pretty well for me. Lassen Park, CA 1967

.233836

Looks pretty dicey to me. Glad you survived.

[Merg Ross]

Looks pretty dicey to me. Glad you survived.

Young and foolhardy!

[diversey]

Use your smart phone. This is what I use if I can’t see the lens.
Another option is that Prontor professional shutters can be used behind cameras.


Maybe you can use a smart phone front camera to look at the f-stop adjustment numbers. Just use some kind of wrist strap so you don't drop the phone over the cliff.

[Doremus Scudder]

Gee, I just reach around and unmount the lens from the font standard. Then I set the aperture and shutter speed while holding it in my hand, close the preview, remount it and make the exposure. ...guess I'm too low-tech...

Doremus

[maltfalc]

you could probably diy a little clip or magnet of some sort that you attach to the edge of the shutter to block the aperture slider from going past where you want to stop the lens down to, so you can do it without looking kinda like a preset lens.

[B.S.Kumar]

A Prontor Professional shutter and a Prontor Aperture Control Arm: https://photos.app.goo.gl/jvxmiCm1BH7ioBsU6 will do that.

Kumar

[Oslolens]

A Copal press shutter. Set the working aperture and mount the lens. Use one cable release to expose and the other one to view at full aperture.


Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Alan Klein]

you could probably diy a little clip or magnet of some sort that you attach to the edge of the shutter to block the aperture slider from going past where you want to stop the lens down to, so you can do it without looking kinda like a preset lens.

You wouldn't know what stop to put the magnet until you took a meter reading after the camera was already in place at the edge of the cliff.

[maltfalc]

You wouldn't know what stop to put the magnet until you took a meter reading after the camera was already in place at the edge of the cliff.so take the meter reading before you frame and focus the shot. have you never used a preset lens before?

[Alan Klein]

so take the meter reading before you frame and focus the shot. have you never used a preset lens before?

The light can easily change while you're setting up the camera and you have to take another reading? Then what?

What's a preset lens?

[maltfalc]

The light can easily change while you're setting up the camera and you have to take another reading? Then what?

What's a preset lens?you literally just have to turn the camera around, take a meter reading, set the magnet or clip, turn the camera back around, set your final framing and focus, stop the lens down and take the photo like normal. you can take a second meter reading to verify the first one if you're that worried about the light changing in less than a minute. preset lenses have two aperture rings. one adjusts the aperture and the other sets the minimum aperture the first one can close down to.

[Alan Klein]

you literally just have to turn the camera around, take a meter reading, set the magnet or clip, turn the camera back around, set your final framing and focus, stop the lens down and take the photo like normal. you can take a second meter reading to verify the first one if you're that worried about the light changing in less than a minute. preset lenses have two aperture rings. one adjusts the aperture and the other sets the minimum aperture the first one can close down to.

It appears the four lenses I own don;t have two aperture rings. (Schneider, Nikor, and Fujicon) I never heard of these two-ringed lenses. Who makes them? What do I do with my lenses?

[xkaes]

Large format lenses are not pre-set lenses. I don't know why that is brought up. Pre-set lenses were used primarily on early (1950-1960's) lenses before AUTO-diaphragm lenses were developed. Large format lenses don't need to have auto-diaphragms, and don't need to be pre-set.

I've taken lots of pictures at the top of cliffs. I've learned to be VERY careful -- especially in the wind. So far I've only lost a tape measure and a cable release.

[maltfalc]

It appears the four lenses I own don;t have two aperture rings. (Schneider, Nikor, and Fujicon) I never heard of these two-ringed lenses. Who makes them? What do I do with my lenses?


Large format lenses are not pre-set lenses. I don't know why that is brought up. Pre-set lenses were used primarily on early (1950-1960's) lenses before AUTO-diaphragm lenses were developed. Large format lenses don't need to have auto-diaphragms, and don't need to be pre-set.

I've taken lots of pictures at the top of cliffs. I've learned to be VERY careful -- especially in the wind. So far I've only lost a tape measure and a cable release.

a scenario like this where you want to stop a lens down without having to look at it is exactly why preset lenses exist and why i suggested adding something to the shutter of a large format lens to limit the travel of the aperture lever so that you can use it LIKE a preset lens.

[Alan Klein]

a scenario like this where you want to stop a lens down without having to look at it is exactly why preset lenses exist and why i suggested adding something to the shutter of a large format lens to limit the travel of the aperture lever so that you can use it LIKE a preset lens.

I think it's easier to stay away from cliffs. ;)

[Alan Klein]

I think it's easier to stay away from cliffs. ;)

I learned my lesson. Here's a picture of me at Dead Horse Point near Canyonlands, Utah a few feet from a cliff about 1300 feet to the bottom, maybe more. My wife took the picture and kept telling me to move back a little more to improve the shot and make it more interesting.

[Drew Wiley]

Numerous times, I've had my Sinar monorail with a long extension rail propped up on some little ledge, leaning over anything from 500 ft to several thousand feet of empty space. Even with both me and it roped to something more solid, how did I set the lens before the shot? - peeing my pants at the same time!

[gdi]

I thought about it but I’m still afraid I would bump the aperture mounting the lens from behind the camera.

[gdi]

I have been practicing with marking the head’s panning position and then spinning the camera around on the tripod and back - I think it will work ok. I just have to remember to do it when needed!

Or… maybe a drone will help, my son has a little Mavic Mini I can use? ;)

[Drew Wiley]

A telescoping inspection mirror can help you at least see what your settings are. Include a parachute for yourself when in doubt.

[Andrew O'Neill]

When I've been in tight situations where it was impossible to walk in front of the camera to change the aperture, I would remove the lens, make the adjustment, then re-attach the lens. I also use a little mirror from the dollar store.

[Doremus Scudder]

I have been practicing with marking the head’s panning position and then spinning the camera around on the tripod and back - I think it will work ok. ...

I do this from time-to-time, but only when I know that I'm going to leave a little "breathing room" around my image for cropping. That way, any mistake in returning the pan head to its original position will be inconsequential. My tripod heads have a 360° marked scale on the pan movement with an index mark, so I just have to remember which mark to return to.

In most situations, I just reach around, unmount the lens, set the aperture and shutter speed, close the preview and cock the shutter and then remount it.

Doremus

[Bill Burk]

Then there was the time my son held the back of my belt as I leaned over the cliff.

I was using a rangefinder so all I had to do was compose and shoot. The focus, f/stop and shutter speed were already set.

[MrFujicaman]

Guys-

Just go to Amazon and order a cheap $3.99 stainless steel dental inspection mirror!

[Doremus Scudder]

Guys-

Just go to Amazon and order a cheap $3.99 stainless steel dental inspection mirror!

A mirror won't set the aperture and shutter speed or cock the shutter for you. You still have to either unmount the lens, set everything, cock the shutter and remount the lens, or rotate the camera around and back. With a bit of practice, either of these two methods works just fine.

In my experience, it's fairly easy to remount the lensboard plus lens on the camera from behind without changing the settings (especially easy if the lens is in a recessed board) unless you've got lots of bellows extension and just can't reach. In that case, rotating the camera around after carefully noting its original position works well.

Sure, you can use the mirror to check if everything is set correctly, but I don't usually find that that is necessary.

Doremus

[Alan Klein]

A mirror won't set the aperture and shutter speed or cock the shutter for you. You still have to either unmount the lens, set everything, cock the shutter and remount the lens, or rotate the camera around and back. With a bit of practice, either of these two methods works just fine.

In my experience, it's fairly easy to remount the lensboard plus lens on the camera from behind without changing the settings (especially easy if the lens is in a recessed board) unless you've got lots of bellows extension and just can't reach. In that case, rotating the camera around after carefully noting its original position works well.

Sure, you can use the mirror to check if everything is set correctly, but I don't usually find that that is necessary.

Doremus

It seems with all that jostling, the focus or movements may slip.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Here IMO is the BEST way to do it! LOL. March 1964 Enjoy.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52717924679_cd7a35a2ba_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ojv9kR)SINAR AD 03-1964 (https://flic.kr/p/2ojv9kR) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr