Help finding the right 8x10 camera/lens for a silly project...

[The Loam Ranger]

Hi all,

In October 2023, I'll be heading off to photograph an extreme action sports competition that takes place in a mountainous region of a windy desert. I am looking to capture this event on an 8x10 camera... because I like pain and heartbreak, I suppose!

In all seriousness, I want to use the larger format and the extensive lens movements to help convey just how wild the terrain is that these athletes are riding on. There will be a mix of portraits and action shots.

I would love to shoot with an 8x10 body and lens combo that will:
1) survive out in the desert for over a week of windy, sandy and exposed shooting conditions
2) has the fastest shutter speeds possible
3) has "interesting" bokeh (not looking for a clinical look and will almost always be shooting wide open)
4) 5.6 or 4.5 max aperture would be ideal, for thin DOF

I fully realize that the obvious answer to the criteria above is the Aero/Speed combo, which I used to shoot with, but I would very much like to shoot this project on 8x10.

I'm completely new to the world of 8x10, so any help is much appreciated!

[jp]

Most of the 4.5/5.6 lenses for 8x10 will be in a big shutter like the ilex5 which has a max speed of 1/50th. If it's less modern, then an older pneumatic shutter.

You have a ton of lens choices.

If it's not needing to be super portable, you can modify a speed graphic to act as a shutter and get your 1/1000 or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjyYixKXm8&t=1s

[Mark Sawyer]

Be aware that most 8x10 shutter have a fastest speed of 1/50 or 1/100 of a second. For action shots, you would probably be much better off with that 4x5 Speed Graphic you mentioned.

[The Loam Ranger]

Thanks! I've found a Schneider 240mm Apo-Symmar f/5.6 with a Compur 3 shutter that maxes out at 1/250, which isn't too bad. I also saw the 300mm 5.6 version in the same shutter online, which gives me hope! Is there any reason to stay clear of this type of shutter?

[Bernice Loui]

Curious, previous sheet film view camera experience would be _?_

This view camera stuff, specially 8x10 is zero like a roll film or digital camera.. Entirely different can-O-film...


Bernice



Hi all,

In October 2023, I'll be heading off to photograph an extreme action sports competition that takes place in a mountainous region of a windy desert. I am looking to capture this event on an 8x10 camera... because I like pain and heartbreak, I suppose!

In all seriousness, I want to use the larger format and the extensive lens movements to help convey just how wild the terrain is that these athletes are riding on. There will be a mix of portraits and action shots.

I would love to shoot with an 8x10 body and lens combo that will:
1) survive out in the desert for over a week of windy, sandy and exposed shooting conditions
2) has the fastest shutter speeds possible
3) has "interesting" bokeh (not looking for a clinical look and will almost always be shooting wide open)
4) 5.6 or 4.5 max aperture would be ideal, for thin DOF

I fully realize that the obvious answer to the criteria above is the Aero/Speed combo, which I used to shoot with, but I would very much like to shoot this project on 8x10.

I'm completely new to the world of 8x10, so any help is much appreciated!

[ic-racer]

a mountainous region of a windy desert.!

Just about any modern 8x10 lens, camera and shutter will have nearly identical specs. How will you manage the film holders? You probably need a large changing bag.

You will need a lot of light to expose film at 1/250. It is 3:00PM and the sun is in a couple hours with not a cloud in the sky. Pointing my meter out the window show 1/250 at f4 with ISO 400 film

[Tin Can]

Ya

Dust will eat it

Ever been in desert?

I have

[The Loam Ranger]

Bernice - as I mentioned in the original post, I've shot 4x5 quite extensively, so the process is not new to me. I do fully realize that going to 8x10 makes everything bigger and heavier, which I am okay with (I'll have an assistant with me to help manage the load).

ic-racer - good call. Fortunately there are no trees and this area is bathed in rather harsh sunlight throughout most of the time I'll be shooting. For me, I know that I will not be able to fully freeze the action of the athletes during their runs (I need closer to 1/1000 for that), but I do want as much opportunity as I can to shoot the lens wide open.

Tin Can - Classic internet commenter, right there haha. The reality is that this camera setup may be completely destroyed by the end of this project, but I am willing to accept that if it means I can produce the work I have in mind.

Any rugged 8x10 bodies you would suggest for something like this? I don't need every movement available, just basic front standard movements, really.

[Alan9940]

It seems to me that working in conditions as you describe is going to demand a fairly heavy camera and tripod. For lens choice, your basic options are small, slow(ish) lenses in Copal 0 or 1 shutters (which will give you speeds up to 1/500) or faster lenses that are BIG and HEAVY. But as Tin Can already pointed out DUST BAD!! I live in the desert and, trust me, sand can and will get everywhere in windy conditions.

[Tin Can]

Calumet C1 Magnesium version

With heavy duty new belows

But it is a vented design so good luck

I deliberately took no cameras to Burning Man 1999, except a sealed DIGI

Baggy every Holder

Duplicate all gear

No fun for you

[Bernice Loui]

Lens focal length will decide camera choice.

Few lenses in a# 1 shutter will cover 8x10 and they will be of short_ish focal length.
Majority of 8x10 lenses will be in a# 3 shutter or larger.

Typical copal# 1 shutter tops out about 1/400 sec and they are typically never 1/400 sec.

Typical copal# 3 shutter tops out about 1/125 sec and they are typically never 1/125 sec.
Exception being a Electronic Compur# 3 which tops out at 1/200 and is typically 1/200 sec.

Essentially, lens choice drives camera and know 8x10 lens choices are limited, often Very limited..

Curious, why 8x10 and what possible advantages could 8x10 offer your image goals?


Bernice




Bernice - as I mentioned in the original post, I've shot 4x5 quite extensively, so the process is not new to me. I do fully realize that going to 8x10 makes everything bigger and heavier, which I am okay with (I'll have an assistant with me to help manage the load).

Any rugged 8x10 bodies you would suggest for something like this? I don't need every movement available, just basic front standard movements, really.

[Dugan]

Alphax/ Betax #5 shutters top out at 1/50 sec, which is usually 'optimistic'...

[CreationBear]

There’s a Walker Titan XL currently in the Classified section that I might take a look at (no connection with the seller)—they have a reputation for bomber construction, and the ABS furniture might be a little easier to keep clean. A bit bellows limited, but if you are working wide angles it might be your huckleberry. At any rate I hope you share part of your project here when all is said and done…

[Vaughn]

I am reminded of an ancient workshop that Richard Misrach was one of the faculty. He showed that he could use that 8x10 (Deardorf, I believe) better than the best with a 4x5. The desert fire series took some quick 8x10 work.

I missed anything about the film you wish to use -- color or B&W.

I think a Kodak 2D that is still a solid beast would be the tool to use. Not light, but I assume you are not an old fart like most of us. Minus point -- lacks some front movements. But folds up with the lens on it and the design is relatively easy to carry over one's shoulder on a tripod if/when you need to set up NOW. Have a shoulder-bag for the holders, and nothing but the tripod legs have to hit the ground.

I use a similar camera, but 5x7. I put the darkcloth over the camera and then a waterproof stuff sack over the cloth and camera to keep out dust and to protect the bellows from branches, etc. Wood tends to give a little and returns, rather than deform.

A point-and-shoot 8x10 of some kind might be nice to have as a back-up (as well as extra ground glass!)

[John Layton]

Make a wire frame finder and do some panning…could be great!

[John Kasaian]

Been there, done that :cool:
A Gowland Aerial 8x10 might be your huckleberry.
https://www.petergowland.com/gowlandflex-cameras
Nikon f/9 300M on the snout shot wide open. Just a box camera really, you could make one out of plywood (or aluminum, like Peter Gowland did)
Who needs a tripod? Set it on the ground or a boulder---plenty stable. Prefocused for infinity, use the sports finder for framing handheld, or the ground glass if you're taking your sweet time. Protect your film holders from dust in plastic zip locks (Jumbo-sized) from the dollar store.
Terrific for night photography in the desert, too


The Stars Go Over The Lonely Ocean
by Robinson Jeffers

Unhappy about some far off things
That are not my affair, wandering
Along the coast and up the lean ridges,
I saw in the evening
The stars go over the lonely ocean,
And a black-maned wild boar
Plowing with his snout on Mal Paso Mountain.

The old monster snuffled, "Here are sweet roots,
Fat grubs, slick beetles and sprouted acorns.
The best nation in Europe has fallen,
And that is Finland,
But the stars go over the lonely ocean,"
The old black-bristled boar,
Tearing the sod on Mal Paso Mountain.

"The world's in a bad way, my man,
And bound to be worse before it mends;
Better lie up in the mountain here
Four or five centuries,
While the stars go over the lonely ocean,"
Said the old father of wild pigs,
Plowing the fallow on Mal Paso Mountain.

"Keep clear of the dupes that talk democracy
And the dogs that talk revolution,
Drunk with talk, liars and believers.
I believe in my tusks.
Long live freedom and damn the ideologies,"
Said the gamey black-maned boar
Tusking the turf on Mal Paso Mountain.

[Vaughn]

If you have a friend who deals in electronics, see if they have any pink (anti-static) ziplock bags for the holders.

[linhofbiker]

Exception being a Electronic Compur# 3 which tops out at 1/200 and is typically 1/200 sec.

Bernice

Electronic Compur's are not liked for some reason. I have several in #3 and #1. The #1 tops out at 1/500 sec. Since they have only one mechanical speed (the maximum speed) and slower speeds are controlled by 1960's electronics i.e. resistors and capacitors. If you find one make sure the contacts and battery housing are really clean. That is the one weakness of these shutters.

[Maris Rusis]

Fotoman 810PS point and shoot?

[gypsydog]

Lion and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!

[Two23]

Thanks! I've found a Schneider 240mm Apo-Symmar f/5.6 with a Compur 3 shutter that maxes out at 1/250, which isn't too bad. I also saw the 300mm 5.6 version in the same shutter online, which gives me hope! Is there any reason to stay clear of this type of shutter?



Be advised that most of these shutters are no where near the rated top speed in actuality.


Kent in SD

[Peter De Smidt]

How about the Walker ABS camera someone has for sale here right now? That would be about as rugged as on 8x10 could get.....The bellows and lens would be the week links. I doubt those copal 3s get very close to their max speeds.....

[Two23]

Hi all,

In October 2023, I'll be heading off to photograph an extreme action sports competition that takes place in a mountainous region of a windy desert. .......
I'm completely new to the world of 8x10, so any help is much appreciated!


I missed that part. I live in South Dakota, have been shooting 4x5 for over 25 years and 8x10 for several years now. South Dakota is a windy place. Trust me when I say that 8x10 and "windy" do not add up to success unless you can set the camera up behind a large wind break. The surface area of an 8x10 makes it a very large sail that shimmies in the wind.


Kent in SD

[linhofbiker]

Be advised that most of these shutters are no where near the rated top speed in actuality.


Kent in SD

Compur Electronic shutters from the 1960's had a single mechanical speed, its highest speed: 1/200 for a #3 and 1/500 for a #1. All other speeds are controlled by 1960's electronics in the form of resisters and capacitors - not a single integrated circuit is present! What could possible go wrong?

[Tin Can]

Don Quixote

[jnantz]

get a big solid cooler to store your stuff.

[Rod Klukas]

Hi all,

In October 2023, I'll be heading off to photograph an extreme action sports competition that takes place in a mountainous region of a windy desert. I am looking to capture this event on an 8x10 camera... because I like pain and heartbreak, I suppose!

In all seriousness, I want to use the larger format and the extensive lens movements to help convey just how wild the terrain is that these athletes are riding on. There will be a mix of portraits and action shots.

I would love to shoot with an 8x10 body and lens combo that will:
1) survive out in the desert for over a week of windy, sandy and exposed shooting conditions
2) has the fastest shutter speeds possible
3) has "interesting" bokeh (not looking for a clinical look and will almost always be shooting wide open)
4) 5.6 or 4.5 max aperture would be ideal, for thin DOF

I fully realize that the obvious answer to the criteria above is the Aero/Speed combo, which I used to shoot with, but I would very much like to shoot this project on 8x10.

I'm completely new to the world of 8x10, so any help is much appreciated!


Hi
So Edward Weston made many of his famous portraits, and other images, using a smaller format camera, when 8x10 was not feasible. He then duped the negative to 8x10 to make contact prints.

That is how he could use cameras with faster shutters and on occasion, hand-held. Remember , enlarging, or projection printing does not get really going until the late 1930s. And that was because platinum, the previlant fine art medium for prints from 1870s, became hard to get in

the late 1920s in the US, and non-existant after about 1936. And B&W Silver paper being so much faster, along with the availability of the Leica, and later the Contax platforms, which required enlarging, also were things that pushed enlarging to the fore.

Just some thoughts.

Rod

[nolindan]

Aerial camera. Usually 9x9 inch, though.

[nolindan]

Aerial camera. Usually 9x9 inch, though.

[Willie]

One big problem will be wind. 8x10 bellows are like a sail.
Get a section of round pipe - lightweight and fit it to the camera to cover the bellows so they are protected from direct hits in the wind.
It does work even while it looks crazy.

[EH21]

I like my Wehman 8x10 for this kind of work because it's really light weight and easy to carry and still has some movements. You might be able to use flash on your subjects?

[Alan Klein]

Take a smaller format for backup.