New here and looking for lens advice

[Califmike33]

Hey guys name is Michael and just signed up. Was into 4x5 photography many many years ago in and after playing with digital, and medium format film i have returned to 4X5. Looking for some advice, got myself a camera now i need lenses. I like landscape and portraits so think i want to start off with a 210mm 5.6, the question is what brand ?. I know there are many, i have my eye on a Caltar HD 210mm f5.6 is this any good ? or should i stick with Rodenstock, Nikkor, Fuji etc.

Again thanks for all replies and look foward to being a part of this forum.

[Luis-F-S]

Any 210 f 5.6 will do. I doubt you'd be able to tell any difference as long as the lens has not been damaged, dropped, abused, etc. Just make sure the shutter is accurate. Most lenses are better than most photographers.

[Alan9940]

What Luis-F-S said. Choice will probably come down to price; the Fuji are pretty inexpensive, while a Rodenstock S series is for the fat of wallet.

[Bernice Loui]

Later Calumet "Caltar" lenses were re-branded Schneider or Rodenstock.. with previous comments about the big four (Rodenstock, Niikkor, Schneider, Fujinon) applies identical.. Previous LFF discussions on these lenses:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?170901-Best-250-for-architecture-from-a-distance-for-a-field-camera


Previous "verbiage" related to lenses for "portraits"
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?166282-The-Problem-with-Modern-Lenses-transfered-to-those-new-to-view-camera-image-making

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?170443-Aperture-used-for-portrait-What-do-you-think

Much about portrait lenses for 8x10, core info applies to 4x5:\
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?163239-Suggest-a-12-quot-(300mm)-lens-for-portrait-work-on-8x10&highlight=kodak+ektar


Much about what your image goals are,
Bernice



Hey guys name is Michael and just signed up. Was into 4x5 photography many many years ago in and after playing with digital, and medium format film i have returned to 4X5. Looking for some advice, got myself a camera now i need lenses. I like landscape and portraits so think i want to start off with a 210mm 5.6, the question is what brand ?. I know there are many, i have my eye on a Caltar HD 210mm f5.6 is this any good ? or should i stick with Rodenstock, Nikkor, Fuji etc.

Again thanks for all replies and look foward to being a part of this forum.

[Mark Sawyer]

To echo Luis-F-S, a reliable shutter is as important as the lens, and barring some sort of abuse, it would be difficult to tell much quality differences between modern (post-WWII) lenses.

[Tin Can]

I usually buy from Japan

and buy the best shutter

Mint or better

[paulbarden]

There are so many great lenses in this focal length category that it doesn't matter a whole lot which one you buy (as long as its in a working shutter). You'd be smart to take a few minutes to read this article posted elsewhere on this forum: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses-primer/ and this one: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses4x5.html

I own a Symmar 210, f5.6 and its a great lens. I also own several very old Kodak Anastigmats, and those are very useful also. If I could own just one, I would stay with my 203mm Kodak Ektar, which is considered by many one of the best lenses ever made in this category.

[Califmike33]

Thanks a million guys loads of responces, but they all have one theme, dont seem to matter much who makes the lens as long as its a known brand. Im interested in that Caltar HD 210mm, understand its Calumet from the old days , i surely remember them. I heard its a probally a Rodenstock renamed. Anyways ok lots of great information here, cant wait to get started. I think i will start off with some portraits since i can stay close to home vs driving 400 miles for some good landscape. I use to know how to use the 4x5 very well but its been a long time and will need to shake off alot of rust.

[xkaes]

Welcome back into the fold. What took you so long?

Keep in mind that you've single-handedly just driven up the price of 4x5" film for all the rest of us.

We'll try not to hold it against you!

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/

[Califmike33]

Thanks great to be back, i really dont know what took me so long, but its great to be back and have to the chance to shoot 4x5 again. Sorry for driving up the price its already wayyyyy over the top priced.

[Ulophot]

As one long away from photography who managed to start wading back in about five years ago, I looking forward to seeing some of your work. I'm probably not nearly as good with the 4x5 as you, but my interest in primarily portraits and I had nothing but a 210 until about 18 months ago when a 135 joined it -- easier for certain interior images, as I tend to prefer more environment than head and shoulders framing. Mine, by the way, is a less known Komura "Commercial," 6.3. Plenty of coverage for movements, perfectly sharp enough for me (I'm not a pore-seeker), nice rendering. The 135 is a Nikkor.

[Califmike33]

I will post some work then i get all my gear together, im so sure your work is far superior to mine. I have not heard of that lens Komura, but again just getting back into it, never heard of Caltar lenses till today either, look foward to seeing your work and sharing mine.

[nolindan]

Lenses from lesser and unknown brands can be as good as any: Congo, Computar, Kowa, Kyvytar ... Many of these, and others, can be rebrandings - sometimes a Kyvytar is a Computar (or is it vice versa?), and so on.

[Bernice Loui]

The Caltar II is likely a Calumet re-branded Rodenstock Sironar N, perfectly excellent does most modern view camera lens. Long as the shutter works and is consistent, there is simply not a lot to be overly concerned about it... for now.

Once you're up and making images, and have made enough portraits, then is the time to possibly consider what to alter if anything.. Lens/camera/film and .. are of lesser importance in portrait making as expression captured in the image, lighting, pose and the capturing some aspect of essence within the portrait sitter is often FAR more significant than "gear"...


Bernice




_never heard of Caltar lenses till today either, look foward to seeing your work and sharing mine.

[Robert Opheim]

As far as landscapes and portraits go - I tend to use longer lenses for portraits, and wider lenses for landscapes (for most images) - in general. For portraits it depends on whether you are shooting a head and shoulder, half or 3/4 body or full body, or environmental portrait. Lenses I use in landscapes images are all over the board from the widest lens to the longest lens that your camera will support. A 210mm is a very good all around lens. As far as manufacturer of a lens - they are all very good. I work with a number of lenses manufactured from 1940's to 1990's.

The challenge really is finding or creating an image - pre-visualizing the image - exposing, developing, printing, and observing if what you thought the image was going to be (pre-visualized) is what you ended up with. And then doing the process over and over. There is very good information in the prior comments.

[Califmike33]

As far as landscapes and portraits go - I tend to use longer lenses for portraits, and wider lenses for landscapes (for most images) - in general. For portraits it depends on whether you are shooting a head and shoulder, half or 3/4 body or full body, or environmental portrait. Lenses I use in landscapes images are all over the board from the widest lens to the longest lens that your camera will support. A 210mm is a very good all around lens. As far as manufacturer of a lens - they are all very good. I work with a number of lenses manufactured from 1940's to 1990's.

The challenge really is finding or creating an image - pre-visualizing the image - exposing, developing, printing, and observing if what you thought the image was going to be (pre-visualized) is what you ended up with. And then doing the process over and over. There is very good information in the prior comments.

Your totally correct thanks for reminding me of that.

[Califmike33]

I think i found a 210mm Rodenstock APO N in mint condition for $425 and im going to buy it, i think this is a good starting lens to go with. I was getting to hung up on lenses, you guys took away alot of wanting to get the best of the best and trying to find out what that was. I see there isnt a huge difference between lenses and i find that good, makes picking much easier.

Thanks for all the tips and advice.

This is the lens i want, do you guys think its a fair price , seems like its in excellent shape ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144731001747?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=C6QEJ6roTqu&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=G-qt1-8jQt2&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[ridax]

This is a good choice, and all the above are good advices - but only if the out of focus rendition is irrelevant.

[neil poulsen]

Don't exactly recall, but isn't the 210mm HD Caltar a Tessar?

If so, it has an adequate, though not a generous, image circle.

Here's a snip from another EBay listing for a 300mm HR Caltar lens . . .

"My understanding is that the HR Series lenses were manufactured by Topcon (Horseman) for Calumet Camera."

I also remember the Caltar Pro as being a Tessar lens.

[jnantz]

Igors is a good outfit. he's not somebody holed out in his mom's basement selling "my friend's grandparents lens I know nothing about"

[neil poulsen]

The main thing is, Igor Camera accepts returns. Be sure to examine purchases when received. I once received from Igor's a triple convertible marked as excellent that had loose parts. I sent it back right away with no hassle. (Though, there was a grumble or two.)

I've made several acquisitions from Igor's and would do so again.

[Tin Can]

I second Igor

Do you know how to mount it without damage?

Buy the correct tool

Don't keep checking at top speed

Don't clean the lens unless you know how

Learn to listen to your shutter at shooting speed

Test fire the shutter just before you burn a sheet of film

[Califmike33]

I second Igor

Do you know how to mount it without damage?

Buy the correct tool

Don't keep checking at top speed

Don't clean the lens unless you know how

Learn to listen to your shutter at shooting speed

Test fire the shutter just before you burn a sheet of film


Thanks for the reply so I guess this guy is fairly known on eBay it makes me feel a little bit better even if I find something wrong with it he seems like he'll take it back but I have emailed them and he hasn't responded to any of my emails asking questions about the lens.

Well I've watched a couple videos on mounting it I know there's a retaining clip that holds it on doesn't seem that complicated but no I've never mounted a lens.

If it is not the condition that he claims it's in I will send it back. Waiting for a response from him I typically email people with questions about the item I'm buying I give them about 3 days to respond if they don't respond I typically don't buy stuff from people that don't answer questions.

[jnantz]

Don't clean the lens unless you know how

exactly, check for usual suspects, separation, mold &c, send it out for a CLA
usually lenses aren't overhauled before they are sold...
people will tell all sorts of ways to CLA a lens on your own with lighter fluid,
and oil distilled from the Toro they got for dinner the night before or whatever.
sometimes that does more harm than good, especially when they don't get their toro from
the ones who are known to sell to expert hobby CLA people and they don't include the sea weed salad!

YMMV

[Daniel Unkefer]

I know Igor and have purchased from him several times this last year. He does get some unique items. Usually I just call him he's a busy Guy
Some of his items he does CLA before selling. Best to ask

Here's his website:

http://igorcamera.com/

[xkaes]

Not only that, Igor's Camera Exchange was the first SPONSOR for my website -- the SUBCLUB -- over 25 YEARS ago!

http://www.subclub.org/ (http://www.subclub.org/)

[Califmike33]

Glad to hear it guys it does say the lens had a CLA in 2021 which I guess that means they take it apart clean it whatever which seems good.

I think I'm going to go ahead and buy it there are cheaper lenses out there in the 210 mm but I think the when I'm looking at seems very good and from the links you guys have sent me about reading about lenses it seems like a good lens.

[Califmike33]

Tried to call him off of his website phone number is disconnected can't figure out how to purchase off of his website when I find the lens and I click on it it doesn't do anything.

[Bernice Loui]

This the lens?
Sinaron S / Rodenstock APO Sironar-N 210/5.6 #10841546, MC, 72*, black Copal #1, caps, CLA'd 2021, Mint- $425.
http://www.igorcamera.com/rodenstock_large_format_lenses.htm

"CLA'd 2021" means Clean, Lube, Adjust in 2021.. shutter should be good to go. IMO, worth the cost as a know good shutter is a problem and frustration reducer..


Igor camera's contact info:
Igor's Camera Exchange
34194 Aurora Road, Suite 119
Cleveland, OH 44139
USA

Office: 440 248-8604

Mobile: 216 407-6446

E-mail: igorcamera@roadrunner.com

Call via phone or email. Upon order they will likely request contact via email to confirm order and shipping info.

Make it so, then make images..


Bernice



Tried to call him off of his website phone number is disconnected can't figure out how to purchase off of his website when I find the lens and I click on it it doesn't do anything.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Tried to call him off of his website phone number is disconnected can't figure out how to purchase off of his website when I find the lens and I click on it it doesn't do anything.

Send him an email, after I talk to him and confirm he has something I want, he sends me a PAYPAL invoice to pay. Usually a day later I have the stuff, although I am not that far away. He might be at a camera show today, or out buying? Or resting :) Igor is a good guy to know. Try Monday morning calling, I'll bet he answers. He doesn't have point-n-click buying.

[Califmike33]

The problem is the phone number on his website says it's disconnected I can't call him on Monday.

I'll try an email.

[Califmike33]

This the lens?
Sinaron S / Rodenstock APO Sironar-N 210/5.6 #10841546, MC, 72*, black Copal #1, caps, CLA'd 2021, Mint- $425.
http://www.igorcamera.com/rodenstock_large_format_lenses.htm

"CLA'd 2021" means Clean, Lube, Adjust in 2021.. shutter should be good to go. IMO, worth the cost as a know good shutter is a problem and frustration reducer..


Igor camera's contact info:
Igor's Camera Exchange
34194 Aurora Road, Suite 119
Cleveland, OH 44139
USA

Office: 440 248-8604

Mobile: 216 407-6446

E-mail: igorcamera@roadrunner.com

Call via phone or email. Upon order they will likely request contact via email to confirm order and shipping info.

Make it so, then make images..


Bernice

Thank you for your reply, i will call him tomorrow and im going to purchase that lens.

[Califmike33]

Actually got a hold of him on the phone and we spoke nice guy. I ordered the lens from him he sent me a Paypal invoice the lens is on the way I can't wait.

[Tin Can]

When you get it

Sit down, big table

Don't drop it

I have a special rubber pad for lenses

[Califmike33]

When you get it

Sit down, big table

Don't drop it

I have a special rubber pad for lenses
Don't worry I won't drop it.

[Califmike33]

Guess i need a spanner tool correct to mount the lens on my new board ?

[Daniel Unkefer]

Guess i need a spanner tool correct to mount the lens on my new board ?

Any of these will work ok

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=lens+spanner&_sacat=0

It's helpful to know what size shutter you have (ex: #1) although most of them are adjustable.

[Bernice Loui]

Guess i need a spanner tool correct to mount the lens on my new board ?

The other variety shutter lock ring spanner:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=rodenstock+lens+spanner&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=lens+spanner&_osacat=0


Bernice

[xkaes]

A spanner wrench is nice, but not essential. A flat-head screwdriver and a hammer (with LIGHT tapping) will work just fine.

[Califmike33]

Ok thanks guys, i got my lens today from Igor and im confused a bit, it doesnt say Rodenstock anywhere on the lens, it says Sinar S 210mm f5.6, and it doenst say APO anywhere on the lens but it did in his Ebay ad. Looking at the lens its not mint 9.5 all the lettering on the lens barrel is faded, like faded white. I want to ask your guys opinion did he not sell me the lens that i ordered ?

[jnantz]

Ok thanks guys, i got my lens today from Igor and im confused a bit, it doesnt say Rodenstock anywhere on the lens, it says Sinar S 210mm f5.6, and it doenst say APO anywhere on the lens but it did in his Ebay ad. Looking at the lens its not mint 9.5 all the lettering on the lens barrel is faded, like faded white. I want to ask your guys opinion did he not sell me the lens that i ordered ?

Is it the lens with the same serial numbers as in the ad (10923117 ) or a different one? it seems there were several of these lenses he was selling
If you aren't happy with it, just return it and get another. Igor accepts returns ... affordable LF lenses are a dime a dozen on eBay, once you are here long enough you might find something in the classy fides here ...
personally, I keep away from anything that says APO, not trying to stir a pot but to be honest, I have never noticed a difference. LOL ..

[Tin Can]

but how is the glass and shutter?

I'm out

[Daniel Unkefer]

That lens is still on Ebay. Sinar selected only the best of the bestest glass to put their name on. Perhaps you will really like it if you try it. If not exchange it. $445 is alot for a 210, but I don't buy into that APO jazz myself. Not trying to agitate, just try it before you send it back. Don't get discouraged, simply move on and get it going. That is a very fine fine lens if it checks out

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144731001747?hash=item21b2a3d393:g:SikAAOSw1cdjLN6P&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoAFQnLjB0tBhH9G5L84yzWPTaJI0ECe50dEwGx5Vpteusfwu806QQNBpAIHeh0QEGVdkdgMmsEk6%2FoDlcn7%2BEAJ5qAKtoTcxNby42Ap5193LDc4%2FCTkwdTGh1C7H5BRSgHvAU079z2QhOyZEZRZPJ0yOgeDbRbKKSnVjMkkfgAHMXGm%2FRKCANd01DlN7p9nNKE2dxc2gn6mxZpLxCr21Mhg%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5D_sKKVYQ

EDIT: A Sinaron-S lens is very choice. In these photos the paint is a bit faded. Is this the lens you received? "Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-N (Sinaron S)" is the listing title

[Alan Klein]

Consider filters. If you use them or will, you want to get filters for the largest size lens. Then use an adapter to fit the filter on the smaller-sized required lenses.

[Oren Grad]

Ok thanks guys, i got my lens today from Igor and im confused a bit, it doesnt say Rodenstock anywhere on the lens, it says Sinar S 210mm f5.6, and it doenst say APO anywhere on the lens but it did in his Ebay ad. Looking at the lens its not mint 9.5 all the lettering on the lens barrel is faded, like faded white. I want to ask your guys opinion did he not sell me the lens that i ordered ?

It is Rodenstock - Sinaron S is just Sinar's private-labeled version of the (Apo-)Sironar-N series.

[Califmike33]

That is the lens I received maybe not the exact lens as far as serial number but mine looks exactly like that lens.

[Califmike33]

It is Rodenstock - Sinaron S is just Sinar's private-labeled version of the (Apo-)Sironar-N series.
Well there you go my first rookie mistake didn't know that thank you. The glass looks good on the lens the lens looks very good except all the white lettering seems to be very faded out which in my opinion is not a 9.5 mint lens so it seems a bit generous the rating. I don't see any scratches on the glass everything works on it yeah 445 is a lot for a 210 lens there are several on eBay in the $200 range one of my downfalls is I typically have to have or try to get the best I can get.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Well Congrats! Let's see a test :)

[Califmike33]

Well Congrats! Let's see a test :)
Camera arrives tomorrow be putting the lens on taking some photos I'll be posting some stuff soon.

[Bernice Loui]

A pretty lens alone can never produce a prettier image...

If you're not ok with this lens, return it to Igor..

Sinaron S series are Sinar branded ala "checked" by the folks at Sinar Rodenstock Sironar series of lenses.. Just before the end of LF view camera lens mass production Rodenstock and Schneider re-designed their LF view camera lens offerings, branded them "APO" and such which is more marketing moniker than industry agreed upon International standard point of reference..

Picture of your lens from Igor camera?

Last Sinaron lens offering from Sinar would have a color ring on the front element of the lens, White/Yellow indicated Sinaron S aka-or Rodenstock APO sironar N with 72 degrees of image circle coverage. Red ring indicated Sinaron SE or Rodenstock APO sironar S with 75 degrees of image circle coverage. These were sold in Sinar DB/DBM mount and in shutter. If your specific lens does NOT have the color ring.. not as advertised..

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?29981-sinaron-se-and-apo-sironar-s-are-they-really-the-same

Story to share.. Back in the 1990's when the Rodenstock "APO" sironar series was introduced with Much Fan-Fare at the local Foto store, got a chance to demo these new "APO" lenses.. Easy back then. Take the demo lenses to the studio, mount the lenses on a Sinar lens board, put the lens on the Sinar P2, take a few test color transparencies with the camera pointed out the window in a sunny day, make some in-studio images, take the box of film to The New Lab (E6 processing) about 2 hours later... have a look-see. Results.... Sharp, contrasty, hard-edged snappy and all that with consistent optical performance from f11 to f32.. what's not to like about this.. "Sharp, contrasty, hard-edged snappy and all that"... Went back to using the set of Kodak Commercial Ektars circa 1950's..

~All about trade-offs with none as absolute.

Over the decades since there have been Many opportunities to own any to the entire set of Rodenstock's series of "APO" sironar lenses including the now highly sought after Sironar W which is the 80 degrees of image circle and oversized front lens cell version of this series.. about zero motivation to act on any of that to this day..

Question is.. how will this lens be tested? what will define acceptance-reject?

Which brings up the goal of, "I typically have to have or try to get the best I can get.".. what is defined as "the best"?
Having never previously done this LF sheet film stuff, typically one only has their historical experience to draw (tends to be mis-leading to might not at all to the LF sheet film stuff) from unless there is a extremely experienced mentor to provide hands on/real time experiences.. and what is easily done decades ago might no longer be possible. Point being, don't fall into the "found it on the web, so it must be true Trap".. It takes a few thousand sheets of film and hard learned experience by the tonnage to figure out your image goals related to this LF sheet film stuff. Moderation at the beginning of the LF journey is extremely prudent and wise and don't fall into the other trap of impulsiveness.

All that said, the opinion of highly favoring a modern plasmat in a modern shutter remains as these are excellent general purpose lenses that does most Good with not a lot of limitations or negative traits.


Bernice






Well there you go my first rookie mistake didn't know that thank you. The glass looks good on the lens the lens looks very good except all the white lettering seems to be very faded out which in my opinion is not a 9.5 mint lens so it seems a bit generous the rating. I don't see any scratches on the glass everything works on it yeah 445 is a lot for a 210 lens there are several on eBay in the $200 range one of my downfalls is I typically have to have or try to get the best I can get.

[Califmike33]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i just dropped it, i was taking a photo of it to show here and it fell, a mall silver232856232856 screw came off.

[Califmike33]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i just dropped it, i was taking a photo of it to show here and it fell, a mall silver232856232856 screw came off. I have no idea what the small silver screw is that broke off.

[Tin Can]

Bernice is correct of course

but some also value different lenses

Check selling prices of old lenses without shutters

[Califmike33]

I think i can fix it with some needlenose pliers.

[Bernice Loui]

Early version of Rodenstock APO sironar N, no color ring on the front lens cell, same as Sinaron S which is the lens in picture. 72 degree image circle per spec.

What screw broke off?

Bernice



OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i just dropped it, i was taking a photo of it to show here and it fell, a mall silver232856232856 screw came off. I have no idea what the small silver screw is that broke off.

[Califmike33]

Early version of Rodenstock APO sironar N, no color ring on the front lens cell, same as Sinaron S which is the lens in picture. 72 degree image circle per spec.

What screw broke off?

Bernice

The screw that cocks the shutter came off, but it looks like it was just pressed in. I did get it to go back in but as soon as you cock the shutter it pops out. I think a small touch of epoxy glue on the end and them pressed back in should do it.

Ok so i guess bottom line is this a good lens i paid $445 for ?

I did go under a high magnification and put some epoxy glue and pressed it back in, time will tell if it will hold, i will know in 4-5 hours of dry time.

[Califmike33]

Well guys i got my camera today and im not to happy. I now need to put the lens on the lens board.232895

[Dugan]

It looks like the hole in your lensboard is for a Copal #3 shutter, or similar....you need a lensboard with a hole for a Copal #1.
Don't get discouraged...many of us have been down that path.

[Califmike33]

It's a copal 1 board. Yeah, this camera leaves a lot to be desired, I'm going to send it back or do some mods myself to improve it.

Got the lens on with no problem, there is movement in the lens board, and it wiggles ever so little, need to put something to tighten it up, let the mods begin.

[ridax]

Here is an example - chromatic aberration of a 150mm Rodagon and a 150mm Apo-Rodagon-N from official Rodenstock publications, brought to the same scale. The difference between the other modern APO vs. non-APO lenses of the same type is about the same. As seen in the graphs, it is no more then 1/3 of the total amount. In big enlargements, it can be noticeable but most often it does not matter in practice - while on the secondary market, the difference in such lens prices is often 2 to 4 times.

[Alan Klein]

This spanner wrench tool is useful for tightening lenses on boards. It's made to handle many types of shutters and lenses.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61131-REG/Toyo_View_180_625_Lens_Mounting_Wrench.html/specs?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj4ecBhD3ARIsAM4Q_jE14hu1bVaSDXMHOphccBisDoR0p5oiaTzuW170I_suQrkokbbMvnAaAtIEEALw_wcB

[Jim Jones]

This spanner wrench tool is useful for tightening lenses on boards. It's made to handle many types of shutters and lenses.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61131-REG/Toyo_View_180_625_Lens_Mounting_Wrench.html/specs?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj4ecBhD3ARIsAM4Q_jE14hu1bVaSDXMHOphccBisDoR0p5oiaTzuW170I_suQrkokbbMvnAaAtIEEALw_wcB

$24.99? Ouch! But at least if you buy two of them, you get free shipping! In an hour or two, with fairly basic hand tools, I could make a universal tool which would handle almost all lens and retaining ring needs.

[Califmike33]

Yeah I paid like $12 for my spanner ranch off of Amazon worked fantastic.

As far as the lens goes being an APO lens yeah I paid more for it and I do plan on making big enlargement so hopefully I'll be taking full advantage of the lens.

[Bob Salomon]

$24.99? Ouch! But at least if you buy two of them, you get free shipping! In an hour or two, with fairly basic hand tools, I could make a universal tool which would handle almost all lens and retaining ring needs.

But it doesn’t fit the 3 shutter. The Rodenstock one does.

[Califmike33]

My spanner wrench tool will fit any lens board which is nice.

[Bernice Loui]

Curious, how large of an enlargement? Color or B&W or ?

Bernice



I do plan on making big enlargement so hopefully I'll be taking full advantage of the lens.

[Califmike33]

Maybe 20 x 30 maybe larger I doubt it but probably about that big. Let me correct that 30x45 it's probably about as big as I would go.

[Bernice Loui]

IMO, 20" x 30" projection enlargement from 4x5 film IMO is excessive.. Acceptance will depend on viewing distance and expectations.
For B&W, better quality FB paper stops at 20"x24".. Color would be different.

Bernice




Maybe 20 x 30 maybe larger I doubt it but probably about that big. Let me correct that 30x45 it's probably about as big as I would go.

[jnantz]

Maybe 20 x 30 maybe larger I doubt it but probably about that big. Let me correct that 30x45 it's probably about as big as I would go.

hope you reach your goal!
before you modify that camera, you might consider a one with a little more meat, I'd be afraid to put a heavy lens on a front standard like that!

[Califmike33]

Really a 20x24 is all I can get out of a 4x5 negative? I've seen 16x20s coming from a 6x7 negative that looks stunning up close.

The lens board will be fine I have to admit the cameras and not that stable I mean it's okay I got it on a good tripod. There's definitely some flex and stuff in the camera but once your shots lined up and you let it sit for a second to make sure there's no vibrations you're fine.

When I get through that lens board is going to fit snug as a bug it won't move a bit, what do you expect for a 350 dollar camera. The cost that I would cost me to ship it back from California to the UK probably about $75 to get a $250 refund hardly worth the trouble. I think for now this camera is going to do maybe another year year and a half I'll switch it out that 210 mm lens is heavy and the camera seems fine.

[jnantz]

Really a 20x24 is all I can get out of a 4x5 negative? I've seen 16x20s coming from a 6x7 negative that looks stunning up close.

The lens board will be fine I have to admit the cameras and not that stable I mean it's okay I got it on a good tripod. There's definitely some flex and stuff in the camera but once your shots lined up and you let it sit for a second to make sure there's no vibrations you're fine.

When I get through that lens board is going to fit snug as a bug it won't move a bit, what do you expect for a 350 dollar camera. The cost that I would cost me to ship it back from California to the UK probably about $75 to get a $250 refund hardly worth the trouble. I think for now this camera is going to do maybe another year year and a half I'll switch it out that 210 mm lens is heavy and the camera seems fine.

IDK if 20x24 is all you can get from a 4x5 film, for some people I'm sure, I mean I read people who are kind of excessive and say they refuse to enlarge a 35mm frame bigger than 5x7? it's weird because I know others who print 30x40 out of a 35mm frame. ... it all depends on what YOU want to do. photographers seem to be the only people who put their nose to the glass and inspect grain, I'd venture to say most people don't really care... unless it's part of "the story" so when someone comes into a gallery and might want to buy and eventually, maybe collect they know the story and can talk about it to friends, family and admirers, I know when we owned a gallery we'd tell the story behind the art when people came in off the street and showed an interest. sometimes the story these days is substituted by a 30 second elevator pitch "statement"..
have fun with the camera!

[Alan Klein]

This spanner wrench tool is useful for tightening lenses on boards. It's made to handle many types of shutters and lenses.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/61131-REG/Toyo_View_180_625_Lens_Mounting_Wrench.html/specs?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj4ecBhD3ARIsAM4Q_jE14hu1bVaSDXMHOphccBisDoR0p5oiaTzuW170I_suQrkokbbMvnAaAtIEEALw_wcB

I bought this one because it was metal. The cheaper ones were plastic. I also bought glass lenses instead of plastic ones. ;)

[Califmike33]

Thank you

[Bernice Loui]

Completely depends on your goals and definitions of "stunning"..

There have been countless millions of Large bill board ADs made using 4x5 film in decades past. They are more than good enough for eye catching AD promo displays from that time..

The 20"x24" B&W print size restriction comes from B&W paper availability. screen shot from Freestyle foto's paper page. Choices of 20"x24" papers available are 30. Moving up to 42", choices of 42" paper drops down to 7..
232971
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/category/7-Paper/Black-and-White-Paper

This print size limit and trade-off has been true for a long time..


Back to print size limit, again it really depends on the individual image creator's goals. Personally, it has been 5x7 or 13x18cm B&W negatives projection enlarged to typically aprox 10"x14" or about 2x and no larger than 4x at the absolute max. This is what is deemed as acceptable.. Scaling this back results in the B&W paper restriction of 20"x24" print paper. The 2x preference has less to do with "sharpness or resolution" it's much about tonality and all those other aspects of B&W images.

Color is a different roll all together..


Bernice





Really a 20x24 is all I can get out of a 4x5 negative? I've seen 16x20s coming from a 6x7 negative that looks stunning up close.

[Robert Opheim]

It does depend on print viewing distance by the observer, and what level of detail that you want in the print. What works for a bill board from a distance - probably won't work close up in a picture frame. Of course it depends on what you are doing.

[Bernice Loui]

Yes indeediee, print viewing distance absolutely figures into this and it is fixed due to the way humanoid vision functions.

Other considerations are space and place where print(s) are displayed and the type of print illumination and print illumination intensity and more.


Bernice



It does depend on print viewing distance by the observer, and what level of detail that you want in the print. What works for a bill board from a distance - probably won't work close up in a picture frame. Of course it depends on what you are doing.

[Califmike33]

Got a question for you guys do most 4x5 field cameras have a zero position for rise and fall? My current camera does not have that position how do I determine where it is?

[Bernice Loui]

Previously on LFF..
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?170496-Schneider-Super-Angulon-75mm-and-Vignetting-on-4x5


Bernice



Got a question for you guys do most 4x5 field cameras have a zero position for rise and fall? My current camera does not have that position how do I determine where it is?

[xkaes]

Yes indeediee, print viewing distance absolutely figures into this and it is fixed due to the way humanoid vision functions.

Other considerations are space and place where print(s) are displayed and the type of print illumination and print illumination intensity and more.


Bernice


I still remember the stunned look on people's faces when they would enter Grand Central Station when Kodak was showing 60 foot slides on the galley made from 35mm Kodachrome 25.

[Bernice Loui]

KR25 projected, short life.. _!_ colors and more..

Remember when..
232981


From a different place in time, The New Lab once offered next day processing for Kodachrome.
Bernice


I still remember the stunned look on people's faces when they would enter Grand Central Station when Kodak was showing 60 foot slides on the galley made from 35mm Kodachrome 25.

[Califmike33]

Well i guess 20x24 is probally as big as im going anytime soon.

[Alan Klein]

I still remember the stunned look on people's faces when they would enter Grand Central Station when Kodak was showing 60 foot slides on the galley made from 35mm Kodachrome 25.

Apparently different films and cameras and huge processing pools used to produce the final display. I remember the few I saw when traveling through Grand Central Station. Always amazing.

From a Giant Banquet Camera to a ‘Tiny’ Nikon
The last Colorama Montanus shot was of a Cheetah in Kenya, Africa, in 1989. In those 30 odd intervening years, film emulsions had become much thinner and sharper, and it was possible to enlarge it to 60 feet even from a one-and-half-inch wide 35mm transparency.


The transition from a 25 lb. behemoth of a banquet camera in 1960 on an equally heavy tripod to a handholdable 35mm was incredible. Also, Montanus could quickly jump back in the truck when the cheetah “loped over to investigate.”
...


The Cameras, Films, Lighting, and Printing of Coloramas
“Also, later in the program, Coloramas were taken with the Linhoff Technorama [panoramic images on 120 film] camera,” adds Jim Montanus. “A few were shot with a Hasselblad.

“The Coloramas were shot on formats starting with 8×20” to 35mm film. They were all [except for one] shot on color negative film. VPS 120, Vericolor type S. At least one was shot on 35mm Ektar film. One was shot on 35mm Kodachrome. Also, some used the center cropped section of an 8×10 VPS Negative.

...

“My Dad used early electronic strobes to do the shot [Christmas Carolers],” Jim says. “Ascor 800 flash units but used photofloods for focusing.

“The Coloramas were first printed on Ektacolor print film, then later on Duratrans print material. Depending on what year it was made, there were either 20 or 15 vertical strips [printed in sections and then glued/taped together] in each Colorama.”

On the sixth floor of a Kodak building (B28) was a swimming pool that was never filled with water, and here the Colorama transparencies were dried overnight. The pool bottom was also used to display and check the full transparency before being trucked out to Grand Central Terminal for the installation in the middle of the night. A small light panel was moved under the transparency to “proof” and see how the image would look when it was finally backlit.

“The print itself cost $30,000 to make,” Jim Montanus says. “The costs to shoot it varied wildly. One photographer shot one on his desk. While others traveled to far-flung places around the world.”
https://petapixel.com/neil-montanus/

[xkaes]

Well i guess 20x24 is probally as big as im going anytime soon.


Is that because of the size of your easel or wallet or processor or ?

16x20" is usually the place I start -- even with 35mm. I've got 24" rolls for any size panorama I can fit in my darkroom. I assume they are still made. Maybe not!!!

[Califmike33]

I think the limit at the dark room that I'm going to be going to is 20x24. Anything larger I would have to have a lab do it.

[Califmike33]

I was able to find the zero point on the rise and fall on my intrepid camera it's a tiny little Mark that they make it basically you need a magnifying glass to see it. I'm going to find a gauge or something that has 0 10 mm 20 mm something like that and put it on there or I may just paint a line across at the zero point.

[xkaes]

The ZERO mark on my cameras are two small red dots -- easy to overlook. Why the heck they didn't make them bigger is beyond comprehension.

[Vaughn]

I still remember the stunned look on people's faces when they would enter Grand Central Station when Kodak was showing 60 foot slides on the galley made from 35mm Kodachrome 25.

Like painting a wall, increasing viewing distance hides a lot.

[Tin Can]

Fine Art, my 8X10 MK3 comes today

Tomorrow my improvements begin

I customize nearly anything

Bed tapes just arrived



I was able to find the zero point on the rise and fall on my intrepid camera it's a tiny little Mark that they make it basically you need a magnifying glass to see it. I'm going to find a gauge or something that has 0 10 mm 20 mm something like that and put it on there or I may just paint a line across at the zero point.

[Califmike33]

Beyond me why they did a lot of things on this camera a lot of corners are cut to present this camera at $333.



I have a lot of modifications intended for this camera basically when you flip from the landscape to the portrait mode on the back there's really nothing to stop it. To get it to line up perfectly vertical or horizontal I mean it's not loose but there's no kind of stop. I'm going to make something that will stop them at both positions.

Yeah a Red Dot is not enough I'll probably get some silver paint or some white paint mask it off make a make a line paint it and then pull the tape off I got to have something. The front tilt they made a zero point it actually clicks into position why they didn't do anything for the rise and fall I know now.

The back on the camera only does forward tilt and backwards tilt and there is no 90° lock there's nothing to lock it there are bubble levels on it that are the size of a pencil eraser that you need a magnifying glass to see I'll be fixing that also it's just a lot of little things. The bellows are actually made very well. T

The lens board is loose there's slight movement I'll be addressing that also they're on the 5th version of this camera you would have think by now they would have it refined but they don't.

[xkaes]

It seems like all the things they left OFF would not have cost much to include -- and sales depends on reputation/reviews in a niche market like LF.

Makes no "business sense" to me. Maybe that's why I'm not in "business".

[Mark Sampson]

I haven't seen or used an Intrepid camera, and haven't really followed its development. But I have been using field view cameras, old and new, for over 40 years, so take this for what it's worth.
It seems that Intrepid (like some other new camera makers) have not done the engineering necessary to make an effective product. It's as if they are just "winging it" and are relying on their client base to tell them what's wrong and what to fix. Or to be modern, putting out a beta version like software developers do.
I'll also note that late-20th-century camera makers like Canham, Zone VI, Wisner, Richard Ritter, et al. got their designs right before going into production and selling product. Of course "getting it right" raised the price.
\\end rant\\ I do hope that Intrepid gets their act together, and that the camera owners use them to make photographs that make them happy.

[Califmike33]

Yeah I have to agree with you it does seem like intrepid is just flying by the seat of their pants. I think the camera has huge potential but needs a lot of refinement so I don't know who's designing this stuff I know they have to keep costs down for that price but my God raise at $50 and make it totally functional. I hope they do listen to their customers now I have emailed them with several complaints in a nice way and I've got no response yet.

I am currently in the process of doing several modifications to it to improve its functionality to the level of acceptable the way it comes it's definitely not acceptable but if you're a DIY guy you can definitely turn it into a decent camera with a little bit of thinking and ingenuity.

[Greg Y]

I haven't seen or used an Intrepid camera, and haven't really followed its development. But I have been using field view cameras, old and new, for over 40 years, so take this for what it's worth.
It seems that Intrepid (like some other new camera makers) have not done the engineering necessary to make an effective product. It's as if they are just "winging it" and are relying on their client base to tell them what's wrong and what to fix. Or to be modern, putting out a beta version like software developers do.
I'll also note that late-20th-century camera makers like Canham, Zone VI, Wisner, Richard Ritter, et al. got their designs right before going into production and selling product. Of course "getting it right" raised the price.
\\end rant\\ I do hope that Intrepid gets their act together, and that the camera owners use them to make photographs that make them happy.

Agreed. For many years I used a 1938 Deardorff w 4x5 & 5x7 backs....I paid $600 for it. With the price of sheet film, and paper..... the camera in the long term is the cheapest part of the deal. So many good cameras were made and are still operable I can't see buying the cheapest one out there....& creating the weakest link in the chain...but that's my opinion

[Califmike33]

Well, the camera does get good reviews so i bought one. I did know some of its issues going in, but i didn't think this would be this bad. Now look it will take a picture, its a light-tight box and projects an image onto film. It's just not refined, it's no Chamonix or Wista. The problem I'm having is this is version 5, and you still don't have it right, that worries me.

The swing, tilt work great, its the rise and fall that are rough and not even close to smooth. The base of the camera is a cutout piece of aluminum, they cut away alot to save weight , but that in returm makes the the camera flimsy sort of. The lens board from them i bought is good, its the the cutout for it thats slightly oversized and makes the board move ever so slightly.

The only other option is buy a used field camera off ebay from Japan, and that maybe a better option, but your talking at least another $250 on top of what i paid. I guess i cheaped out cause i knew i had to buy light meter, lens, film holders etc. I will keep it for year and move up to a Chamonix.

[xkaes]

I haven't seen or used an Intrepid camera, and haven't really followed its development. But I have been using field view cameras, old and new, for over 40 years, so take this for what it's worth.
It seems that Intrepid (like some other new camera makers) have not done the engineering necessary to make an effective product. It's as if they are just "winging it" and are relying on their client base to tell them what's wrong and what to fix. Or to be modern, putting out a beta version like software developers do.

Seems like you're right!


https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?171133-New-Intrepid-MK3-8X10-Smells-Great!

[xkaes]

So many good cameras were made and are still operable I can't see buying the cheapest one out there....& creating the weakest link in the chain...but that's my opinion

Some people like to buy what's NEW and HOT -- just like with cars and houses. Go figure. But, I must admit, finding old info on old cameras is a challenge. What you usually end up with are opinions, not details.

[Bernice Loui]

Once Upon a Time...
Two image makers went view camera shopping one day...

Image maker number two..
Been using a Large variety of view cameras for decades creating images from Portraits (indoor, outdoor and more), landscapes, in studio still-life to Ads, Fashion and more, technical macro images, architectural indoor/outdoor with uber power strobe to natural lighting and much more. Burned countless thousand sheets of film from color to B&W and more.. Has very specific expectations from the camera and how that camera Must have every ability to Fully support the optics/lenses required to achieve specific image goals be they prints or mass publications...


Image maker number one...
Completely new to this view camera stuff. Previous experience was strict digital, then roll film starting with 35mm then moved to 120 roll film then got caught up in the curiosity of sheet film. Image maker number one is also from the web-internet centric generation where what is found on the web is considered truth, fact and good solid information, recommendations and "reviews"... No idea what view camera movements are or can achieve due to the long history of using lens fixed to the box camera or at most using tilt/shift lens or lens adapters. Add to this, lenses are brand centric, for a specific camera brand there is a strong interest to keeping with that camera brand's lens offerings or aftermarket lens offerings or in the case of mirrorless, adapted lenses of mixed brands.. Specific image making habits, style and more have been grown out of these previous image making experiences.

Decides to go new view camera shopping.. Do a web search, comes up with "FAB" reviews on a specific camera.. Gee, this must be the camera to have given there are SO many "FAB" reviews given to said view camera.. Part of the "fly in the ointment" difficult with this making choices based on web-internet reviews, these folks posting to the web-internet could have manufacture supported bias promo to create these "FAB" reviews or the reviews simply do not have the depth of experience and real-world experience of being run in the out of the previous era of sheet film image making.. which often shapes the expectations, demands and more of the image maker.. Image maker number one goes for the much web-internet TooTed view camera.. Spanky new, no idea of what a Good view camera should be, yet it is a view camera. Makes images, lightweight, folds up easy and has all these contraptions that allow the front and back of this light tight box that is flexi in the center to be moved and bent around.. Not sure what or how these bendiee motions are for. but... it makes "FAB" images on film _WOW_...


Image maker number two encounters this web-internet TooTed view camera with a Great "ICK"... in short time image maker number two has short tolerance for the lack of precision/accuracy, flimsy lightweight construction, camera/bellows extension limitations and no easy option for a bag bellows, no scales or centering marks, wonky camera focusing mechanism located at the bottom center of the rear standard, semi light transparent lens board causing film fogging and more.. Yet, image maker number two easily produces FAB images from this camera within it's limitations.. Never again, unless this is the only image making tool available.. ick..


So there ya have it..
Bernice








Well, the camera does get good reviews so i bought one. I did know some of its issues going in, but i didn't think this would be this bad. Now look it will take a picture, its a light-tight box and projects an image onto film. It's just not refined, it's no Chamonix or Wista. The problem I'm having is this is version 5, and you still don't have it right, that worries me.

The swing, tilt work great, its the rise and fall that are rough and not even close to smooth. The base of the camera is a cutout piece of aluminum, they cut away alot to save weight , but that in returm makes the the camera flimsy sort of. The lens board from them i bought is good, its the the cutout for it thats slightly oversized and makes the board move ever so slightly.

The only other option is buy a used field camera off ebay from Japan, and that maybe a better option, but your talking at least another $250 on top of what i paid. I guess i cheaped out cause i knew i had to buy light meter, lens, film holders etc. I will keep it for year and move up to a Chamonix.

[Califmike33]

Once Upon a Time...
Two image makers went view camera shopping one day...

Image maker number two..
Been using a Large variety of view cameras for decades creating images from Portraits (indoor, outdoor and more), landscapes, in studio still-life to Ads, Fashion and more, technical macro images, architectural indoor/outdoor with uber power strobe to natural lighting and much more. Burned countless thousand sheets of film from color to B&W and more.. Has very specific expectations from the camera and how that camera Must have every ability to Fully support the optics/lenses required to achieve specific image goals be they prints or mass publications...


Image maker number one...
Completely new to this view camera stuff. Previous experience was strict digital, then roll film starting with 35mm then moved to 120 roll film then got caught up in the curiosity of sheet film. Image maker number one is also from the web-internet centric generation where what is found on the web is considered truth, fact and good solid information, recommendations and "reviews"... No idea what view camera movements are or can achieve due to the long history of using lens fixed to the box camera or at most using tilt/shift lens or lens adapters. Add to this, lenses are brand centric, for a specific camera brand there is a strong interest to keeping with that camera brand's lens offerings or aftermarket lens offerings or in the case of mirrorless, adapted lenses of mixed brands.. Specific image making habits, style and more have been grown out of these previous image making experiences.

Decides to go new view camera shopping.. Do a web search, comes up with "FAB" reviews on a specific camera.. Gee, this must be the camera to have given there are SO many "FAB" reviews given to said view camera.. Part of the "fly in the ointment" difficult with this making choices based on web-internet reviews, these folks posting to the web-internet could have manufacture supported bias promo to create these "FAB" reviews or the reviews simply do not have the depth of experience and real-world experience of being run in the out of the previous era of sheet film image making.. which often shapes the expectations, demands and more of the image maker.. Image maker number one goes for the much web-internet TooTed view camera.. Spanky new, no idea of what a Good view camera should be, yet it is a view camera. Makes images, lightweight, folds up easy and has all these contraptions that allow the front and back of this light tight box that is flexi in the center to be moved and bent around.. Not sure what or how these bendiee motions are for. but... it makes "FAB" images on film _WOW_...


Image maker number two encounters this web-internet TooTed view camera with a Great "ICK"... in short time image maker number two has short tolerance for the lack of precision/accuracy, flimsy lightweight construction, camera/bellows extension limitations and no easy option for a bag bellows, no scales or centering marks, wonky camera focusing mechanism located at the bottom center of the rear standard, semi light transparent lens board causing film fogging and more.. Yet, image maker number two easily produces FAB images from this camera within it's limitations.. Never again, unless this is the only image making tool available.. ick..


So there ya have it..
Bernice


I agree i do take all reviews with a grain of salt. Those reviewers didnt say in WAS PERFECT, they clearly pointed out its flaws also. After playing with it for a few days my biggest issue is the rise and fall 0 mark that you need a microscope to see, but its a easy fix with some enamel and masking tape and a brush.

[Califmike33]

I got my Carson loupes today, a 4.5x and a 7x, the 4.5 is out, 7x is pretty good, i can focus on objects, and i do see a lot of the fine specs in the ground glass. So i think the ideal loupe is 6x to 8x for my tired eyes. I'm also wondering and thinking how much of an improvement would good ground glass be. I'm guessing the Intrepid glass is cheap and low quality, anybody tells me how much of a difference good ground glass makes?

[Joseph Kashi]

I got my Carson loupes today, a 4.5x and a 7x, the 4.5 is out, 7x is pretty good, i can focus on objects, and i do see a lot of the fine specs in the ground glass. So i think the ideal loupe is 6x to 8x for my tired eyes. I'm also wondering and thinking how much of an improvement would good ground glass be. I'm guessing the Intrepid glass is cheap and low quality, anybody tells me how much of a difference good ground glass makes?

I tried the Carson loupes and ditched all of them. They turned out to be not very sharp. Buying an admittedly more expensive used loupe intended for view camera use resulted in a much better focusing experience and sharper negatives. Buying a used Horseman, etc, traditional loupe or a new metal 6X long loupes from the Chinese suppliers on **Bay was ultimately the best solution. Amazing how much better the images looked on the same ground glass. Before buying an expensive ground glass, I suggest getting a better loupe.

[Califmike33]

I tried the Carson loupes and ditched all of them. They turned out to be not very sharp. Buying an admittedly more expensive used loupe intended for view camera use resulted in a much better focusing experience and sharper negatives. Buying a used Horseman, etc, traditional loupe or a new metal 6X long loupes from the Chinese suppliers on **Bay was ultimately the best solution. Amazing how much better the images looked on the same ground glass. Before buying an expensive ground glass, I suggest getting a better loupe.

The carson 7x i got today is the right power, but i have heard to much about how a good quality loupe can make a big difference. There is a Rodenstock i like but its $275, i have seen the chinese ones for $50 to $100 they look pretty good. You have convinced me to return the Carsons.

What do you think of this one ?? https://www.ebay.com/itm/275453498891?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=oeMsk5HFSQC&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=G-qt1-8jQt2&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY Or this one

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184079584015?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4hjYgXnBTam&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=G-qt1-8jQt2&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[Califmike33]

Well guys camera is on Ebay for sale, this Intrepid is a piece of garbage. I took my first shots and the film holder keeps getting stuck and when i pull the darkslide out the whole film holder comes out of camera. Im done with this thing, going to buy a Chamonix or Wista. WARNING DO NOT BUY A INTREPID.

[Joseph Kashi]

I've used the 6X eTone loupe and it's equivalent in quality to the Horseman and other traditionally high quality loupes that I have used. It's good enough that I ultimately bought 3. There are, I am sure, better, more compact, loupes at a higher price but the 6X eTone seems like a sensible balance of quality, usability, and price.

[Califmike33]

I've used the 6X eTone loupe and it's equivalent in quality to the Horseman and other traditionally high quality loupes that I have used. It's good enough that I ultimately bought 3. There are, I am sure, better, more compact, loupes at a higher price but the 6X eTone seems like a sensible balance of quality, usability, and price.

I ordered a Peak 7x today, i almost got the eTone one but passed, i will see how the Peak is and can always try the eTone if i dont like the Peak.

[Alan Klein]

I've used the 6X eTone loupe and it's equivalent in quality to the Horseman and other traditionally high quality loupes that I have used. It's good enough that I ultimately bought 3. There are, I am sure, better, more compact, loupes at a higher price but the 6X eTone seems like a sensible balance of quality, usability, and price.

Can you adjust the eTone focal point to higher or lower? Can you adjust the diopter?

[Califmike33]

Can you adjust the eTone focal point to higher or lower? Can you adjust the diopter?

I think it's adjustable not 100% sure but I think it is look it up on eBay there's a ton of them on eBay.

[Bob Salomon]

I think it's adjustable not 100% sure but I think it is look it up on eBay there's a ton of them on eBay.

If it is not adjustable then it won’t focus on the grain side of your gg. So use it for your stamp collection and get a true focusing loupe.

[Alan Klein]

If it is not adjustable then it won’t focus on the grain side of your gg. So use it for your stamp collection and get a true focusing loupe.

So if my camera uses a GG and fresnel lens, do I need a loupe that adjusts the focal point?

[Bob Salomon]

So if my camera uses a GG and fresnel lens, do I need a loupe that adjusts the focal point?

You want one that focuses on the grain side of your gg.

[BrianShaw]

https://www.etonephoto.com/products/etone-6x-focusing-loupe-lupe-mc-for-4x5-8x10-large-camera-framing-viewfinder

Optical design:
Diopter adjustment, large visible area, adopted multi-layer coating and 4 pieces 2 groups programming, reducing distortion greatly and eliminating chromatic aberration as much as possible.

[Alan Klein]

With the Chamionux 45H-1 the Fresnel lens in behind the GG. So if I understand you correctly, if I focus using a fixed loupe, I'll be focusing on the Fresnel which is incorrect? Is that true?

So I need a loupe that changes it's focus point. Right?

Which side is the grain side of my GG?

[Alan Klein]

I usually buy from Japan

and buy the best shutter

Mint or better

As far as I could determine when I bought my large format lenses from Japan, none of the sellers actually tested the shutters with a shutter tester. So while the lens might be "Mint", no one really knows how good the shutters are.

[BrianShaw]

With the Chamionux 45H-1 the Fresnel lens in behind the GG. So if I understand you correctly, if I focus using a fixed loupe, I'll be focusing on the Fresnel which is incorrect? Is that true?

So I need a loupe that changes it's focus point. Right?

Which side is the grain side of my GG?

Alan, the ground (grain) side of the GG is most likely immediately facing the lens. That is what you want to adjust the loupe to be in focus.

[Alan Klein]

Alan, the ground (grain) side of the GG is most likely immediately facing the lens. That is what you want to adjust the loupe to be in focus.

So do you need an adjustable loupe? Most fixed loupes focus on the surface the loupe sits on which is not the grain side of the GG. Right?

[Joseph Kashi]

You want one that focuses on the grain side of your gg.

I just checked my own eTone 6x loupe and yes it does have an adjustable focal point and is able to focus upon the grain side of the ground glass.

[Bob Salomon]

So do you need an adjustable loupe? Most fixed loupes focus on the surface the loupe sits on which is not the grain side of the GG. Right?
Correct, you need a loupe with an adjustable eyepiece. You should also look for one with an opaque skirt, a folding rubber eyepiece, coated, apochromatic, wide eye relief and a neck strap.

[BrianShaw]

So do you need an adjustable loupe? Most fixed loupes focus on the surface the loupe sits on which is not the grain side of the GG. Right?

Most likely you’ll need an adjustable loupe. You should get one anyway. Many loupes focus on the flat surface that is their shroud.

I have the eTone and really like it. The only thing I didn’t like is that it delivers without caps. Easily solved “problem”.

[Alan Klein]

Most likely you’ll need an adjustable loupe. You should get one anyway. Many loupes focus on the flat surface that is their shroud.

I have the eTone and really like it. The only thing I didn’t like is that it delivers without caps. Easily solved “problem”.

What does that mean?

[BrianShaw]

What does that mean?

Caps… covers for the two ends. To keep the optics clean and undamaged when it’s not in use. They are not included when you buy their loupe.

[Califmike33]

Caps… covers for the two ends. To keep the optics clean and undamaged when it’s not in use. They are not included when you buy their loupe.

That seems a little cheap NO CAPSSSSSSSSSS.

[Bob Salomon]

Caps… covers for the two ends. To keep the optics clean and undamaged when it’s not in use. They are not included when you buy their loupe.

Rodenstock Schneider, Linos, Sinar loupes also come without caps. Fortunately, if it matters, Kaiser has lots of caps to fit almost anything.

[Alan Klein]

I just confirmed that my Chamonix 45H-1 is built so that the order is the lens, ground glass with grain side toward the lens, Fresnel, then your eye. If I use a loupe with a fixed focal plane, I'm focusing on the Fresnel not the grain of the ground glass where the film would lie when inserted.

So I need a loupe that allows changes to its focal plane.

Can someone confirm if the 6X eTone adjusts the focus plane as well as the diopter? If not, other recommendations.

[Bob Salomon]

I just confirmed that my Chamonix 45H-1 is built so that the order is the lens, ground glass with grain side toward the lens, Fresnel, then your eye. If I use a loupe with a fixed focal plane, I'm focusing on the Fresnel not the grain of the ground glass where the film would lie when inserted.

So I need a loupe that allows changes to its focal plane.

Can someone confirm if the 6X eTone adjusts the focus plane as well as the diopter? If not, other recommendations.

See suggestions in my last post.

[Mark Sawyer]

I just confirmed that my Chamonix 45H-1 is built so that the order is the lens, ground glass with grain side toward the lens, Fresnel, then your eye. If I use a loupe with a fixed focal plane, I'm focusing on the Fresnel not the grain of the ground glass where the film would lie when inserted.

So I need a loupe that allows changes to its focal plane.

Also consider a loupe with a soft base that won't scratch up the Fresnel screen.

[Alan Klein]

I have a clip-on magnifier lens that attaches to the front of my eyeglasses that say +4.0. Is that a magnifier of 4x or 4x diopter? What is the difference? Does anyone use these clip-ons in lieu of a loupe?

[Califmike33]

I'm looking at buying my second lens I think I want to get a 240 mm f 5.6 would make a good portrait lens. Probably Rodenstock or Nikkor.

[Bernice Loui]

How many portraits using 4x5 (210mm lens) have been made to this day?

How do you know a 240mm f5.6 Plasmat would make a "good" portrait lens?


Bernice


I'm looking at buying my second lens I think I want to get a 240 mm f 5.6 would make a good portrait lens. Probably Rodenstock or Nikkor.

[Tin Can]

Historically photographers and sitters found soft focus lenses needed less facial repair

but 4X5 SF enlarges poorly

Many shoot portraits 8X10 and above to make contact prints on soft finish paper, such as Pearl

I prefer life size 11X14 film and X-Ray film

X-Ray is very much like 1895 film

Our oldest member shooting since the 30's also uses X-Ray as the film meets his needs

Cheaply



I dislike any touch up on DIGI, Paper, Film

Humidified darkrooms are very good

I watch old B&W movies and consider which lens is used on beautiful women and boxers

[Bernice Loui]

The beauty and wonder of soft focus lenses on 8x10 contact prints are often not appreciated today. Combined with properly applied Hard lighting makes them special beyond their period and timeless results.

~IMO, they are and remain special in many ways..

Sorta-Focus lenses on sheet film does not enlarge well ... at all. ~~Now prepared for the veggie salad to be tossed this way by verbalizing this~~ ...

2x would be IMO, the max enlargement for a sheet of film made with a Sorta-Focus lens, once at 4x, the special qualities of these images dies.. They are just not the same...

Oh, BTW, vast majority of these vintage Sorta-Focus lenses are in Barrel and Big.. rendering the majority of view cameras unable to use them without significant contortions.. Which brings up Packard or Sinar shutters..


Bernice




Historically photographers and sitters found soft focus lenses needed less facial repair

but 4X5 SF enlarges poorly

Many shoot portraits 8X10 and above and make contact prints on soft finish paper, such as Pearl

I prefer life size 11X14 film and the X-Ray film

X-Ray is very much like 1895 film

Our oldest member shooting since the 30's also uses X-Ray as the film meets his needs

Cheaply



I dislike any touch up on DIGI, Paper, Film

Humidified darkrooms are very good

I watch old B&W movies and consider which lens is used on beautiful women and boxers

[Califmike33]

How many portraits using 4x5 (210mm lens) have been made to this day?

How do you know a 240mm f5.6 Plasmat would make a "good" portrait lens?


Bernice

I've taken none using my 210 lens but isn't a 240 mm closer to a standard portrait lens of about 90 mm then a 210 is?. Obviously the tighter I can get in the longer focal length is going to help me to make a tighter more close up photo without having to stick the whole camera in their face. I'm actually thinking now I should have got a 240 to start with instead of the 210 the 210 does not seem tight enough.

[Bernice Loui]

What kind of "portrait" _?_

Head/shoulder, full length, 3/4 length, 1/2 length, couple, group, environmental or _?_

Contrast rendition (high or low), "sharp" or Soft Focus _?_

All in the image perceived to be sharp (smaller exposure aperture), selective focus (large to full lens exposure aperture) or _?_

All above and more applies directly to focal length needed for a specific film format size..

What about into out of focus rendition, would this be of any significance to the image goals?

Once the lens that meets specific portrait goals, then a lens choice could be made.. and the view camera better be able to extract the best out of that lens and properly support the specific lens to properly accomplish the portrait goals.. Or why camera choice is driven by image goals, then lens needed to accomplish these goals. Making the focus on camera alone is not wise.

~None of the above can be properly answered until plenty of portrait images have been made-produced as it is essentially to develop a sense for how LF view camera portraits are made. Only with much experience, mistakes, success and more is gained could choices knowing what is needed can be made. Get a view camera outfit, make images.. it's the only way to learn how to view camera as the gear can never make images on their own.

Bernice




I've taken none using my 210 lens but isn't a 240 mm closer to a standard portrait lens of about 90 mm then a 210 is?. Obviously the tighter I can get in the longer focal length is going to help me to make a tighter more close up photo without having to stick the whole camera in their face. I'm actually thinking now I should have got a 240 to start with instead of the 210 the 210 does not seem tight enough.

[Califmike33]

Definitely Head and shoulders sometimes even tighter just face. And no I do not want to soft focus I want definition detail texture in the skin showing.

[Bernice Loui]

How much of the face to be in perceived focus? Know, LF lenses can be brutally "sharp" with definition and contrast no roll film image can match..

Again, better understanding and appreciation of this comes with making portrait with a view camera, Any view camera... and dare say most any LF lens.

Bernice



Definitely Head and shoulders sometimes even tighter just face. And no I do not want to soft focus I want definition detail texture in the skin showing.

[Bernice Loui]

Lighting has a HUGE effect on portraits, from skin texture to shadows and plenty more. IMO, lighting plays a FAR more important role in portraiture than lens alone. Low contrast lens can be upped contrast by harder light, highly textured skin can be softened by using soft/diffused light. Pose and portrait sitter expression are other important aspects of portraiture...

IMO, sitter expression is at the top of the list of what makes an effective portrait..

Kenny Rodger's Portraits and more previously on LFF:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?169130-John-Sexton-Kenny-Rogers


Bernice

[Alan Klein]

I've taken none using my 210 lens but isn't a 240 mm closer to a standard portrait lens of about 90 mm then a 210 is?. Obviously the tighter I can get in the longer focal length is going to help me to make a tighter more close up photo without having to stick the whole camera in their face. I'm actually thinking now I should have got a 240 to start with instead of the 210 the 210 does not seem tight enough.

Medium telephoto is good for portraits not only because of the framing, but because it compresses the image. If you use a normal or wide-angle lens, features on the front of the face like noses get bigger and distort the overall look.

[Califmike33]

Obviously I want some fall off on the side of the face and the background to be completely knocked out I feel like the 240 lens is probably the correct focal one for tight portraits. I agree 100% lighting is huge the way you like the subject absolutely.

[Califmike33]

IMO, sitter expression is at the top of the list of what makes an effective portrait. Yes, Bernice and Lighting are the key elements to a nice portrait.

[Mick Fagan]

I have a 210mm lens which was my go to lens for tight)ish) portraits, did a handful of portraits each year for about 10 years; then I picked up a 250mm lens.

Haven't used the 210mm lens since and as for portraiture head and shoulders type of stuff, the 250mm works wonderfully for me.

[Califmike33]

I have a 210mm lens which was my go to lens for tight)ish) portraits, did a handful of portraits each year for about 10 years; then I picked up a 250mm lens.

Haven't used the 210mm lens since and as for portraiture head and shoulders type of stuff, the 250mm works wonderfully for me.
Thank you for your reply I figured a 240mm lens would probably be perfect portrait lens for me and in general.

[Califmike33]

240mm 250mm it is.

[Califmike33]

Can somebody tell me what determines what shutter goes with what lens ? what is the difference Copal 0, Copal 1 etc ?

[Alan Klein]

Can somebody tell me what determines what shutter goes with what lens ? what is the difference Copal 0, Copal 1 etc ?

This chart lists the shutter sizes to be used in4x5.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

See here for other size cameras.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

[Califmike33]

This chart lists the shutter sizes to be used in4x5.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html

See here for other size cameras.
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

Thank you for that Alan.