4x5 B&W development - no processor

[kal800]

Hi,

Is there any way to develop LF film more or less in the same manner as 120 or 135? I planned to get JOBO 2500 series tak with sheet film reel, but I’ve read that it is intended to use with rotary agitation, not inversion as in hand processing. I need to upgrade my enlarger to cater 4x5 which is rather obvious, and I’m not able to buy Jobo CPP or CPA unit at the same time. Is there any way to do film development manually in case od sheet film?

Chris

[Dugan]

There are 4x5 racks available for Paterson plastic tanks.
20th Century makes one, among others.

[Pieter]

Dip and dunk.

[jp]

I use Combiplan tanks for normal inversion processing.
You could also do tray processing, make drums with sewer pipes, buy an insert for the Patterson, and stearman tanks.

[xkaes]

Check out YANKEE AGI-TANKS and YANKEE UTILITY TANKS. These are easy to find, inexpensive, and can be used in a lot of different ways.

The problem with inversion for 4x5" is the amount of liquid involved and the size of the sheets of film. Smaller roll film can handle all that sloshing around movement. Sheets have a harder time, so rocking or dip & dunk are used instead.

To cut the amount of liquid to a minimum, use tubes -- these are very inexpensive.

[Lachlan 717]

You can still use Jobo 26xx tanks; however, you’ll need the sealed cap, rather than the cog top.

232665

[ic-racer]

You might want to check these threads too for more info:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?636-Developing-4x5-Film-by-Inversion-in-a-Jobo-Tank-2500
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?3078-JOBO-2500-4X5-sheet-film-processing-tank
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?134114-MOD54-vs-Jobo-2509n-minimum-developer-for-6-sheet-inversion-processing

[jnantz]

do the shuffle, and while you do it you can listen to do the hustle

[Mick Fagan]

I would suggest you look seriously into the Stearman 4x5" tank, it takes 4 sheets and requires just under 500ml of solution. Perfect for inversion processing.

I have all the Jobo gear and have rotary processed 35mm, 120 and 4x5" film extensively over a 30 year period. The Stearman tank is simplicity itself.

[Vaidotas]

I use Combiplan tanks for normal inversion processing.
You could also do tray processing, make drums with sewer pipes, buy an insert for the Patterson, and stearman tanks.

I’d reccomend Combiplan too, up to 6 sheets per developing. Combiplan is multiformat system, suitable for smaller formats like 9x12, 6.5x9, etc.
To my experience it’s good to have separate tanks for wash stop and fixer because liquid release valves are small.

[esearing]

Or take the opposite approach - One sheet at a time to control the variables for each shot. It will change how and what you shoot once your get in the LF sheet mindset.

[Tin Can]

Trays always work

Sometimes I process 1 or 2 in the next size up tray

Particularly glass plate

I can do that by inspection

with some, not all

I use a plastic spatula for lifting as the bottom is clear glass

[Alan9940]

I would suggest you look seriously into the Stearman 4x5" tank, it takes 4 sheets and requires just under 500ml of solution. Perfect for inversion processing.

Perfect, if it works for you. I have the Stearman 4x5" tank and have tried three different versions of the holders but the clips along the sides of the holders always gouge the emulsion of my film. Plus, over the years I've had off-and-on "ghosting" issues whereby there's a slight shadow image on the film of the holes in the holder. Others love this tank and have never had a single issue...it just didn't work out for me.

[Per Madsen]

I’d reccomend Combiplan too, up to 6 sheets per developing. Combiplan is multiformat system, suitable for smaller formats like 9x12, 6.5x9, etc.
To my experience it’s good to have separate tanks for wash stop and fixer because liquid release valves are small.

I can also recommend the Combiplan tank, which i have used for 25 years without problems.

[jp]

I’d reccomend Combiplan too, up to 6 sheets per developing. Combiplan is multiformat system, suitable for smaller formats like 9x12, 6.5x9, etc.
To my experience it’s good to have separate tanks for wash stop and fixer because liquid release valves are small.

The drain/fill is small and slow and I think it might not be suitable for very fast steps like c41 sometimes is, without doing as you suggest. My B&W develop times are 11-14:30 depending on film, so no real hurry getting it drained/filled. Once fixer goes in, the top comes off anyways and fix finishes and washing is done in normal room light. I do have two tanks because I like them and wanted a spare. It's handy once in a while to do twelve sheets running two tanks.

[xkaes]

Or take the opposite approach - One sheet at a time to control the variables for each shot. It will change how and what you shoot once your get in the LF sheet mindset.

Along the same line, Cibachrome (and perhaps others) made a great, tiny 4x5 processing tube. It's designed for one sheet of 4x5, and uses less than 50ml of liquid. Great for individual processing and saving chemicals -- AKA, $$$.

[Doremus Scudder]

If you have access to total darkness for processing, my vote would be for tray processing.

I've been tray processing 4x5 film for 35+ years. I find it the most flexible of all the options. You can develop for how long you like, add sheets that need shorter development times during the processing, easily do reduced agitation, etc.

There is a bit of a learning curve. You have to be careful when shuffling through the stack in the tray not to get film crossed up and scratch a sheet. It took me a few times practicing with scrap sheet with the lights on, then the lights out and then a couple of runs with not-so-important negatives to feel confident I had the proper technique. After that, I never looked back.

Investment is minimal: 4-5 5x7 trays plus the usual graduates and containers (which you would have anyway). I like Paterson 5x7 trays for tray developing 4x5; some like 8x10 trays. Those work fine too, and you may already have them, they just need a bit more solution volume.

There are lots of tutorials and descriptions of tray processing here and over on Photrio.com if that's the route you want to go.

Best,

Doremus

[mike rosenlof]

http://davidkachel.com/wpNewDK/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/TrayProcessingInTubes-1.pdf

this has been my technique for the last 25 years or so. I've only used it for fairly low volumes -- 5 sheets of 4x5 in an 8x10 tray for example, but It's been a good method for me.

The only issue I've had is the antihalation dye does not get 100% removed from Kodak T-Max films (and possibly others). A fairly short bath after fixing in something mildly alkaline fixes it up just fine. In my case I use the exhausted developer from the same run (I use dev exclusively one-shot) and it's fine, but 10g of sodium carbonate in a liter of water is just as good. I do a two step fix. First fix in the tubes, second fix in little sandwich sized trays, one sheet to a tray. Then the alkalai bath, then wash in the tiny trays.

I mostly use ilford sheet films and with them have not had the AH dye issue.

[ericantonio]

I use a Stearman, I've done dip and dunk, Nikor reels, trays and for the amount of 4x5 I do (not a whole lot), I find the Stearman perfect for my needs. YMWV. Depends on your budget and how many sheets you are doing. Once a while, i will still do trays for example, if I have a few 8x10's, I do trays, and then why not, I stick some 4x5's in there after a run.

[David Schaller]

I use the Jobo tank for hand inversion exclusively. Yes, it’s a lot of chemistry, but I use Pyrocat HD, so it’s very economical.

[Alan9940]

I've been tray processing 4x5 film for 35+ years.

We're all different, of course, and have greater/lesser abilities with regard technique, but I tray processed 4x5 and 8x10 film for my first 15 years of LF photography and never gave it a thought. I was happily doing my thing until I got a Jobo and the Expert Drums in the mid-90's. When I did some stress testing to compare evenness of development between what I had been doing in trays (shuffle method, btw) vs the Jobo drums I was shocked to see what truly even development in sheet film looked like (hint: the Jobo won hands down!) Been running the Jobo for over 25 years now and, as you said, I've never looked back.

[xkaes]

My experience is similar -- but I made the switch a little sooner, partly in order to save the cost of chemicals, and give everything FRESH chemicals each time. My switch was to Colourtronic tubes and water baths -- basically the poor man's JOBO.

And no more space wasting, spill-causing trays!!! And I can turn the lights ON too!!!

[nitroplait]

I don't think the MOD54 has been mentioned yet. Fits in a Paterson tank. The MOD54 unit is a little overpriced for what it is, but not unreasonably so.
Works great if you have average fine motor skills, but see the inventors videos first to avoid frustrations.

[Tom Monego]

I have been using a Nikor cage tank for years, can take up to 12 sheets in 1200cc of liquid. Thich is pushing most developers capacity, so I generally use 8 sheets. I have a thin pipe that keeps the film from pistoning using inversion agitation. With this I don't have any problem with uneven developing which was an issue when learning how to use the tank. I started with a Yankee tank, but it was messy.

[Vaidotas]

http://davidkachel.com/wpNewDK/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/TrayProcessingInTubes-1.pdf

this has been my technique for the last 25 years or so. I've only used it for fairly low volumes -- 5 sheets of 4x5 in an 8x10 tray for example, but It's been a good method for me.

The only issue I've had is the antihalation dye does not get 100% removed from Kodak T-Max films (and possibly others). A fairly short bath after fixing in something mildly alkaline fixes it up just fine. In my case I use the exhausted developer from the same run (I use dev exclusively one-shot) and it's fine, but 10g of sodium carbonate in a liter of water is just as good. I do a two step fix. First fix in the tubes, second fix in little sandwich sized trays, one sheet to a tray. Then the alkalai bath, then wash in the tiny trays.

I mostly use ilford sheet films and with them have not had the AH dye issue.

+1

[xkaes]

I started with a Yankee tank, but it was messy.

There are different Yankee tanks -- I use two types. "Messiness" varies.

[nolindan]

The Jobo tanks work very well. I use the spiral reel variety with no problems. You can get a motorized roller base on ebay to agitate the tank - the bases were originally used for agitating color printing drums.

If you are only doing a few sheets then tray development works fine - but doing 8-12 sheets in a tray without scratches takes a lot of legerdemain.