CANHAM vs EBONY

[jdurr]

K B CANHAM 4X5 vs EBONY RW45

Which one would you choose? And why?

Thanks

232157

[Sal Santamaura]

Ebony without a nanosecond's hesitation.

Why? I own two Ebony cameras and once drove more than 100 miles round trip to handle a Canham. I found the Canham not only "fiddly" to open and close, but insufficiently rigid when set up. Proponents will write that, even though Canhams can be deflected, they return to their set positions when pressure is released. My response: pressure is never constant or released when working under windy conditions in the field.

[jdurr]

Ebony without a nanosecond's hesitation.

Why? I own two Ebony cameras and once drove more than 100 miles round trip to handle a Canham. I found the Canham not only "fiddly" to open and close, but insufficiently rigid when set up. Proponents will write that, even though Canhams can be deflected, they return to their set positions when pressure is released. My response: pressure is never constant or released when working under windy conditions in the field.

One for the Ebony!

[Tin Can]

I pick H1 https://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/cameras/45h1

However I want it custom without 4X5 back

Just 5X7 back

Maybe next winter


I bought their 11X14, but sold as it was too nice


I already have a beautiful Japanese 4X5 which I carry unfolded

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Based on the sample? Canham, because I prefer 5x7.

[daisy9]

I purchased the newest Linhof Technika 3000 for a fair used price from KEH. For new 4x5 cameras, try B&H Photo.

[Lachlan 717]

Intrepid 4x5 and buy a couple of top notch lenses with the left over cash.

[Martin Aislabie]

It depends - but doesn't it always.

For sheer build quality and ease of use - the Ebony.

But the RW45 is fairly limited in terms of lenses it can cope with - good for wide angle but it doesn't have the extension for long lenses.

If you are OK with the lens limitations of the Ebony, then it's the Ebony every time.

Martin

[jnantz]

Based on the sample? Canham, because I prefer 5x7.

same here, and the surplus money could be used to purchase film and paper. Ebony's are nice but perfection isn't everything.

[Scott Davis]

One of the big downsides now to an Ebony is that they're no longer in business - you want or need something, either a repair or a customization? No factory support. And as has been noted on many threads here, Keith Canham provides A-1 world-class customer support for his products.

[Michael Kadillak]

One of the big downsides now to an Ebony is that they're no longer in business - you want or need something, either a repair or a customization? No factory support. And as has been noted on many threads here, Keith Canham provides A-1 world-class customer support for his products.

Completely agree. Product support is easily discounted that is until something goes awry. Then it is a huge deal. Add the exorbitant costs of a high end Ebony (which is in fact a beautiful and functional camera) and as a consumer getting back to the basics is excellent advice. Holding a film holder and a lens in a firm desired orientation is accomplished with Canham as it is with Ebony. I see no discernible difference in this regard. The controls of each camera are learned as a function of just using it. At the end of the day the finished print does not know or care the process it went through to get to the wall it is hanging on. I would save my money for superior quality optics and film that is expensive, but still readily available.

[Jeff Keller]

For either 4x5 or 5x7, I would choose Canham ... but I actually bought an Ebony SU45 (the $1200 price that was too good to pass up) even though I have more than one Canham.

The standard Canham bellows enables a very wide range of lenses to be used. The Canham is rigid enough and light enough to carry and use pretty much anywhere outdoors. My first large format camera was a Canham MQC57 so the Canham controls are what I'm most used to. As has been mentioned many times, Keith Canham is great to do business with. Unless you are a lot younger than he is, your Canham will last your lifetime.

An Ebony Camera's ease of use depends very much on the model. The wide-angle versions typically have fewer movements and are very simple and quick to use. If you only shoot wide-angle to normal-length lenses, an Ebony Camera could be very attractive.

Both cameras are very well made. I think you would be comfortable with the operation of either with experience. Both cameras look great ... they are works of art themselves.

jeff

[Drew Wiley]

The Canham is really a 5X7 with an optional 4x5 back, and well made of black walnut. In my opinion it's the sweet spot in Canham's entire lineup, and I have long coveted one, but declined because 5x7 color film is so hard to get. The hardware is CNC anodized aluminum, which is quite surface hard, but not internally so. That shouldn't be an issue under ordinary circumstances of usage, but is a distinction. The bellows material is routine. If you want something with optional 5x7 capacity, and a helluva lot more convenient to set up than an ancient Dorff Special, this would be a wonderful choice. But you're talking about something nearly double the weight of the little Ebony in mahogany wood, potentially requiring a somewhat heavier tripod too (I tested it for that fact).

The Ebony RW45 is an entirely different animal. It's nearly a super-lightweight 4x5 folder, but way better made and more stable. The hardware is machined titanium - as good as it gets. Mine is true pattern grade mahogany for sake of light weight, versus the heavier true ebony wood option. It has a "universal" bellows of very high quality, which functions as both a regular bellows and partial bag bellows. It has enough extension to use a standard (non-tele) 360mm lens if base tilts are also employed, or 300mm if they are not. The other direction, it can handle down to around a 90mm lens before you need a recessed lensboard. So I do NOT recommend the RW45 for very short focal length lenses like their specialized architectural models. It accepts common Technika style boards.

I have taken the Ebony on lots of long strenuous backpacks using both conventional 4x5 holders, roll film back, and formerly Quickload holders. It's an especially compact gem. Don't confuse it with their heavier and more complicated triple-extension SU45. And in my case, finding something as light and compact as possible without giving up rigidity was a priority, since I already had a full featured monorail Sinar system plus an 8x10 folder for other things. But I hate focus fresnels, so removed that from the Ebony.

Repair-wise down the line? No different than any other wooden camera choice. If you have basic cabinet shop skills, no issue either way. The finish is easily DIY maintained. If it's a hypothetical hardware question, the Ebony is superior. It would take a long time to wear out an Ebony bellows, and those are replaceable from the usual sources.

Gosh - the only fair opinion I can give it to buy both! But I couldn't afford both either. Flip a coin?

[Greg]

I have been fortunate to use both over the years. I suppose I could compare them to driving a Porsche and a BMW... both a pleasure to drive but with a different feel to each. You decide which matches the Ebony and which matches the Canham. For a 4x5 field view went with a Chamonix probably 5 years ago. Definitely (subjectively) preferred the Chamonix over an Ebony or a Canham. But then sold the Chamonix in favor of using my Sinar Norma. Just preferred the controls and operation of the classic Norma. When I was shooting 4x5 Chromes commercially, I used a P or an X because setup time mannered. Now I can enjoy leisurely setting up the Norma. Stopped shooting 4x5 Chromes. Sold the P. Kept the X and still enjoy using it from the back of my car. Using Sinar's binocular reflex viewer was always the game changer for me. Never liked any of my monocular reflex viewers, and never liked to use a dark cloth with a 4x5. Now for whole plate up to 11x14, my "modus operandi" changes to a large black cloth and absolutely no fresnel. When I look back over the years, I wish that I had just stuck with one 4x5 make and model... would have made life a lot more simpler... Also could have afforded an exotic lens or two.

[many]

I purchased the newest Linhof Technika 3000 for a fair used price from KEH. For new 4x5 cameras, try B&H Photo.

The other day I saw one for sale, its a beauty.
Are you enjoying the 3000?
I feel it is worthy the price?

[Mark Sampson]

Of course you can buy a Canham new, and Ebony cameras have been out of production for some years now. That makes a difference, if you're shopping.

[Dugan]

Buy a Burke & James or an Ansco, and buy a used car with the savings.
Just kidding...sorta. :o

[Drew Wiley]

Buy a junk car, and save your money for a serious camera. Fancy cars lose half their value the first accident, and just tempt people to steal them anyway. I guess you could make a pinhole camera out of a stolen catalytic converter and call it your Platinum Edition.

[Bernice Loui]

Going side-ways here... point of view from a decades long Sinar user.. It is much about ergonomics, camera control layout and how each camera movement control falls-fits for those who are right handed.. After using the Norma for some years now, the camera controls can be operated by feel knowing where each camera movement control is located without looking for the camera movement control lever-knob. Similar applies to the Sinar P/P2.. Think of this as muscle memory much like playing a musical instrument or similar. It is much a combo of Sinar camera ergonomics, muscle-memory and all related that is developed over years and years of using the same camera system and countless thousand sheets of film burned..

For indoors/studio the P/2 remains The Fave by a Far.. it is Big, Heavy, Stable with self-arresting geared camera movement controls that are an absolute joy to use. This ease of camera set up based on ergonomics goes a Long ways to reducing time, effort and energy on camera set up freeing up these resources for setting up lighting and subject which is most often the most time and effort and resource intensive aspect of these indoor/studio images..

It is likely this learned muscle memory and all related is why the dis-like for field folders as they are ergonomically that much different from a Sinar Norma or P/P2..

With the Linhof Technikardan 23s, the camera movement controls are on the left hand side of the camera (focus on right hand side).. not so good ergonomically and it requires learning and think of how/where the camera movement controls are.. About 30+ rolls of 120 film later.. still not wild about the left hand controls on the TK23s.. it is tolerated, just.


Bernice



I have been fortunate to use both over the years. I suppose I could compare them to driving a Porsche and a BMW... both a pleasure to drive but with a different feel to each. You decide which matches the Ebony and which matches the Canham. For a 4x5 field view went with a Chamonix probably 5 years ago. Definitely (subjectively) preferred the Chamonix over an Ebony or a Canham. But then sold the Chamonix in favor of using my Sinar Norma. Just preferred the controls and operation of the classic Norma. When I was shooting 4x5 Chromes commercially, I used a P or an X because setup time mannered. Now I can enjoy leisurely setting up the Norma. Stopped shooting 4x5 Chromes. Sold the P. Kept the X and still enjoy using it from the back of my car. Using Sinar's binocular reflex viewer was always the game changer for me. Never liked any of my monocular reflex viewers, and never liked to use a dark cloth with a 4x5. Now for whole plate up to 11x14, my "modus operandi" changes to a large black cloth and absolutely no fresnel. When I look back over the years, I wish that I had just stuck with one 4x5 make and model... would have made life a lot more simpler... Also could have afforded an exotic lens or two.

[Peter Lewin]

Bernice is one of the most knowledgeable and trustworthy members of the forum, but I will restrict my thoughts to the original question. While I have never owned an Ebony, I have owned a Canham DLC (his metal 4x5) for probably over 20 years. I find the controls, which are similar to those on his woodie, easy to work with once you get used to them. I have both the bag and normal bellows, so the camera allows movements with all my lenses from an 80mm to a 300mm. With that flexibility I have heard others call the Canham the “Swiss army knife” of cameras. I have dealt with Keith a number of times, both when upgrading the camera to the newer DLC^2, and when I stupidly broke the GG. Keith's responses were almost immediate, he says his goal is to keep his cameras out in the field. So my own experience with a Canham camera has been excellent.

[Drew Wiley]

Apples versus oranges. An Ebony folder should be compared to a Canham woody, which seems to have been the gist of the original query. Metal Canhams are really in a different category, although there is the common denominator of Keith's well known attitude of excellent service. But his cameras will outlive him, so thinking ahead toward potential maintenance issues is advisable for anyone of younger years. Things really get splattered all over the map once Linhofs and Sinars get thrown into the equation, not to mention ancient decrepit wooden cameras perhaps better repurposed for campfire kindling. Wooden field cameras wouldn't have been produced parallel to metal monorails for so very long if there weren't such a strong demand for BOTH. They fill somewhat different niches, though I use both mainly in the field myself.

[Scott Davis]

Another thought with the Ebony cameras - many (don't know if it is all, or only some models) used titanium hardware instead of aluminum. From a technical standpoint, titanium is great stuff, but it is harder to work with, and more expensive. Should you need it repaired (you have a case of the oopsies and drop your camera and damage the hardware), finding a third party that can make the replacement part will be more difficult and more expensive than having the same repair done on a Canham once Keith is no longer in business.

[Drew Wiley]

The difference is, that the titanium hardware will undoubtedly outlast the rest of the camera itself. A non-issue. That's not necessarily the case with brass or aluminum hardware. But even titanium can be machined in any reasonably equipped shop, just not CNC-style probably. It's not like you're trying to make a jet fighter plane out of it. Not much more difficult than working with stainless steel. Drop a wooden camera on the rocks and you've got a lot more than the hardware to worry about anyway!

The titanium rack and pinion gearing of the Ebony is basic, however. Don't expect it to be as silky smooth as the helical gearing of a Technika or Horseman FA, or the Delrin gearing of Sinar. Canham's is also basic, as are most field cameras.

[jdurr]

Thanks for all the input. For now I plan on keeping the Canham and look for a 5x7 back for it.