Question on how to assess condition of Sinar X

[pchong]

Hi all, I am a long time member, but have not been shooting LF for a long time, now considering to return. I am thinking of a Sinar X which I viewed recently. The movements are all nice and smooth except the rise/fall and focus knobs on the back standard are both quite stiff and tight. Anything I should be aware of that is the reason for this condition? I guess it’s preferable to being well worn and loose, but is it possible to fix? Any other views on the X is appreciated too.

Thanks.

[Bernice Loui]

If the geared controls are stiff on a Sinar X/P/P2 it is usually due to the lubricants drying out then becoming clay like. This caused excessive friction and wear on all the moving parts. This problem could also be due to dirt and grit finding their way into the moving parts.

Most often worn part of a Sinar X/P/P2 would be the rear focus gearing as that is the most often used control.

Stiff controls could also be a user perception issues as there is a specified amount of torque/force required to operate the controls. The specfied forces involved are in the Sinar X/P/P2 service manual:
https://www.galerie-photo.com/manuels/sinar-p-demonter-remonter-verifier.pdf

Sinar X was a "non-sheet film format convertible" version of the P, idea being lower cost. The frames can be removed and interchanged by loosening the set screws that are on the X instead of the finger screws on the P and P2.. essentially the same camera in too many ways.


Bernice



Hi all, I am a long time member, but have not been shooting LF for a long time, now considering to return. I am thinking of a Sinar X which I viewed recently. The movements are all nice and smooth except the rise/fall and focus knobs on the back standard are both quite stiff and tight. Anything I should be aware of that is the reason for this condition? I guess it’s preferable to being well worn and loose, but is it possible to fix? Any other views on the X is appreciated too.

Thanks.

[pchong]

Wow, thanks Bernice for that link. Haven’t looked at it yet. But I would imagine it will detail what lube to use, where and how much to use.

I don’t think it’s a perception issue as the two rear gears need significantly more torque than the front equivalents.

[Drew Wiley]

Basically a simplified P without the extra expense of the all the engraving marks. A few limitations. All the Sinar series are capable of being user-maintained with respect to the foregoing problem, unless the gearing is totally worn out, and then you look for a replacement of the culprit component itself. If experimenting with simple lube, make sure it isn't a sticky kind of grease that will actually trap grit and sand. That's one downfall of geared controls; they need to be periodically cleaned.

[Joshua Dunn]

Is there a reason you are considering the X over a F2? They are a lot less money, lighter and easier to tote around and have all the movements you will ever need. I have the F2 and the P2 and almost always use the F2.

-Joshua

[pchong]

I am doing mostly tabletop work. And prefer geared movements.

[Bernice Loui]

P/P2/X flat works for indoor table top images where lower weight is a Dis-advantage and More Weight is an Advantage... as in Stability. Geared camera movement are a definite plus for table top work. From the perspective of having available many, many Sinar modules from F to P2 to Norma, the specific need drives what modules are needed to make up a view camera to best meet the specific image making need(s)..

Fave indoor view camera to this day after many decades remains the P or P2 in too many ways. DB or DBM mount lenses with Sinar shutter and remote cables can further speedy and improve image making needs. Sinar GG metering probe can aid in exposure and image contrast control by simply using a meter back on any Sinar rear standard frame.

Other things to consider, best to apply some form of compendium lens shade for table top image and there are often filters involved and more.. All easily accommodate within the Sinar system be the basic camera an F, F+, F2, X, P, P2 or Norma...

As for market $, current F2 market prices are near P prices with the X some where in the middle and a premium for the P3 or P2 as basic cameras.. All still typically lower than most lightweight field folder view cameras... today.


Bernice



Is there a reason you are considering the X over a F2? They are a lot less money, lighter and easier to tote around and have all the movements you will ever need. I have the F2 and the P2 and almost always use the F2.

-Joshua

[pchong]

Thanks to all, I bought the Sinar X. Comes with two regular bellows, a WA bag bellows, extension rail and a F standard. Waiting for delivery now…together with a 180mm Nikkor f5.6. Will report back with my new (to me) camera when all are assembled. Will use it with my Photoclam Multiflex Head (I believe is an Arca Cube copy) and Gitzo Systematic 3 series tripod.

[Bernice Loui]

Sinar, far more than a camera..

Been there, done similar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU8ozo1ubfc


Bernice



Thanks to all, I bought the Sinar X. Comes with two regular bellows, a WA bag bellows, extension rail and a F standard. Waiting for delivery now…together with a 180mm Nikkor f5.6. Will report back with my new (to me) camera when all are assembled. Will use it with my Photoclam Multiflex Head (I believe is an Arca Cube copy) and Gitzo Systematic 3 series tripod.

[Tin Can]

Like the glass stage platform

[Bernice Loui]

Or why Sinar for so many decades...

Modularity = Capability limited by creativity.


Bernice



Like the glass stage platform

[pchong]

Yea, great idea…I can try that too. Will try and figure out a way to mount my digital camera (Fuji GFX) to the P standard. Actually the X I bought comes with a P rear standard as well, but the switch to change from swing to tilt is broken, stuck on tilt I think. I can probably try that as the standard to permanently mount the GFX quick release.

[Bernice Loui]

Sinar made a camera adapter for the P rear standard to attach cameras and etc to the rear P standard. Note the plate at the bottom of the DSLR.
233244

233245

If a custom bellows was made to fit the digital camera lens mount to the Sinar front standard, the results would be a digital "view camera"...
Similar in function to the current Cambo ACTUS.
https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/

The official Sinar version would be the P3 which is designed to be used with digital imager backs.


Bernice



Yea, great idea…I can try that too. Will try and figure out a way to mount my digital camera (Fuji GFX) to the P standard. Actually the X I bought comes with a P rear standard as well, but the switch to change from swing to tilt is broken, stuck on tilt I think. I can probably try that as the standard to permanently mount the GFX quick release.

[Greg]

Sinar, far more than a camera..
Been there, done similar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU8ozo1ubfc Bernice

I have used a relatively same setup off and on since the mid 1970s. Back when, initially with Norma standards. IMO: Works best with a 120 camera - Hasselblad and Bronica GS-1 specifically. I found it to be a little less workable with 35mm/DX cameras. The Novoflex brand light stands are not inexpensive to say the least. Instead I adapted six articulating arms and light sources from a Bogen Light Modulator mounting them on moveable bases. Maybe 10-15 years ago I converted their tungsten bulbs to Nikon fiber optic light sources (for Nikon Microscopes) and never looked back. I never was into using electronic flashes even with modeling lights as light sources. Over the past years I have been doing a lot of Photomacrography in the field rather than in the "studio". Mostly with a Nikon D850 tethered to my MacBook Pro. The monitor on the Macbook Pro is so vastly superior to the way smaller D850's LCD screen.

I have read references of being able to convert the X's rear standard to carry an 8x10 frame, but I have yet to find a detailed description of the conversion. But then acquiring a genuine 8x10 P shouldn't break the bank and having the correct 8x10 standards would be a real plus over adapting 4x5 standards.

[pchong]

Here is one on the Bay. I am already using the Fujifilm GFX. I don’t know if the measurements are accurate enough to place the sensor plane to the film plane, so refocusing is not needed after tilt/swing movements. I would imagine Sinar P3 if they have a GFX solution would be accurate. Also available from Cambo and Arca Swiss Universalis. And I believe there is a Horseman version for the LX. Of course, the Chinese version below, which does not seem to be a copy of any, is less pricey.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275545915833

[Bernice Loui]

Photography with the Sinar P and Phase One P45+...
~Peter Chong,

https://deployant.com/photography-with-the-sinar-p-and-phase-one-p45/


_?_
Bernice

[pchong]

Thanks for the shoutout Bernice.

[Bernice Loui]

This info page on macro/micro photography might be useful for your watch photographs, don't get hung up on specific brands for these specialty lenses/optics as there have been LOTs of these optics made for industry, scientific world over the many decades that are simply excellent in too many ways. APO microscope objectives are just one example.
https://www.savazzi.net/photography/index.htm

Big plus of the Sinar system, virtually any of these Macro/Micro speciality lenses can be adapted to be used on the Sinar system.


Bernice

[pchong]

Thanks, I have bought a Nikkor W 180mm f/5.6 from B.S. Kumar...and will probably use it for a while before exploring other lenses.

I have been doing watch photography professionally for decades, mostly on medium format but don't think I will need large format for my kind of work. To get the look I am known for, I think I will probably need 3X magnification...but why not. Will give it a try.