F/9.0 lenses, what's your tips/trick for better viewing?

[ericantonio]

Besides the obvious, (really good darkcloth?) and I need to get hit in the head with the obvious cause I'm a little slow like that, what's your tips/tricks for slow aperture lenses? In the studio long time ago, I used to be able to shine a mole/richardson on something that I need to focus on and put up the NYTimes to focus on letters but I don't have anything that bright anymore.

Outdoors, I'm thinking just wing it, stop it down to a reasonable aperture, and hope for the best. I mean, I used to be able to do that with rangefinders.

[Vaughn]

For max brightness on the GG, keep your eye on the same path as the light coming from the lens.

[mike rosenlof]

that's pretty much it. move your head around and the bright spot will follow

[Alan9940]

If the camera doesn't have a manufacturer installed bright screen, like on my Arca-Swiss, I install a fresnel over the ground glass. A lot of folks don't like a fresnel because it goes very dark when viewing off angle. I just hold my head a little further back and it's not too bad. For focusing, I use a laser pointer in low light conditions.

[ericantonio]

If the camera doesn't have a manufacturer installed bright screen, like on my Arca-Swiss, I install a fresnel over the ground glass. A lot of folks don't like a fresnel because it goes very dark when viewing off angle. I just hold my head a little further back and it's not too bad. For focusing, I use a laser pointer in low light conditions.

I can look for a fresnel. I think it'll be a decent investment.

Laser pointer? Really? But the "dot" is so small. That helps out? Are you focusing on the quality of the dot or does it illuminate what you are focusing?

[Sal Santamaura]

If 4x5, nothing I've seen can hold a candle to Maxwell's HI-LUX Ultra Brilliant screen. I use it with a 150mm f/9 Germinar W and, viewed through the Horseman folding hood, have no problem composing and focusing with the camera in full sunlight. Bill supplies the same screen up through 5x7.

For larger formats, even with a Maxwell fresnel lens over Satin Snow ground glass, using a dark cloth is mandatory for f/9 lenses.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I also use a fresnel on my cameras, and move my head around, helpful for viewing the corners.

[xkaes]

I'll second -- or is that sixth? -- the idea of a INTENSCREEN or similar. I use f12, f9, f8.5 and f8 lenses in dimly lit forests without much trouble. The center of the screen is the brightest area, of course, and with the help of a Wista 7X loupe, I have not had major problems focusing.

[Willie]

https://www.fenixlighting.com/products/fenix-tk35ue-v2-flashlight

One of these can help even in daylight. A lot of power and you can often see reflected light from what you are trying to focus on even in sunlit scenes.

[ericantonio]

https://www.fenixlighting.com/products/fenix-tk35ue-v2-flashlight

One of these can help even in daylight. A lot of power and you can often see reflected light from what you are trying to focus on even in sunlit scenes.

JEEBUS. I can't imagine why you had to search for something like this! Coon hunting? Dang! That seems darn cool though. Like I would whip that out in a backyard BBQ and say "hey fellas, hold my beer, check this thing out...."

[Bernice Loui]

f9 full aperture lenses are much a non-issue to use or focus on the ground glass of a view camera as they tend to be longer than normal focal lenght lenses which tends to concentrate the light used to form the image.

Opposite happens with wide angle view camera lenses where the light collected to form the image is spread across the ground glass and film.


Bernice

[Tin Can]

I need a new Fenix

The first I loved, but I washed it to oblivion. FENIX LD15R USB RECHARGEABLE RIGHT ANGLE FLASHLIG. Washed maybe 10 times

My second, a FENIX 25 perfect, but is it the battery or lamp. I need it today

I use it all day long as my vision is dim

and the magnetic base is very handy in studio

All my Doctors want one, one even wrote it down!




https://www.fenixlighting.com/products/fenix-tk35ue-v2-flashlight

One of these can help even in daylight. A lot of power and you can often see reflected light from what you are trying to focus on even in sunlit scenes.

[Vaughn]

I prefer the cleaner look without the fresnel lens.

But then I also like trimmed corners on the GG. The aerial image is easier for me to see/compose what is in the corner than GG. From under the darkcloth I like being able to quickly check for any vignetting possibilities there might be, and at what f/stop they 'disappear'. I often work in places where I cannot physically get around to the front of the camera (I should take a small mirror of setting aperture and shutter speed.)

There's no accounting for taste...

[Robert Opheim]

Also, a really good loupe, I like blackened sided loupes - easier to see lower light. I lastly broke down and bought a Horsman loupe. I have stepped up slowly from a linen tester to a Toyo loupe and now a Horseman loupe. I use the same process as Vaughn does #13. I know a photographer who uses small flashlights - and puts them in the scene that he is shooting to make sure that the depth of field is covered in the image that he wants. I haven't tried this yet.

[Drew Wiley]

I've never had a problem focussing any f/9 lens outdoors, or even an f/12. The right kind of grind on the ground glass itself helps (not excessively fine); but a supplementary fresnel is counterproductive in my opinion. One extremely simple trick besides and effective darkcloth is wearing dark glasses until you are under the cloth, so your eyes will already be better accommodated to the dim light. I really dim situations you can hypothetically use a little flashlight or laser pointer and carry a bit of reflective aluminum foil to temporarily put it the scene. I've done that for cave and tunnels shots, and even there gotten along fine with f/9 lenses.

[Alan9940]

Laser pointer? Really? But the "dot" is so small. That helps out? Are you focusing on the quality of the dot or does it illuminate what you are focusing?

Yep, the dot is small but I don't use it on things far away from the camera. And, yes, I focus on the quality of the dot. It's not that hard to see clearly with a loupe. Think of it like focusing on grain when doing enlargements in the darkroom.

[c.d.ewen]

Ach! Are there nae Scotsmen here?

Take the cheapest flashlight you can find and drop it where you want to focus.

If you need some tilt for your focus, stretch a string of Christmas lights.

Charley
(pronounced, in this instance, "Chair-lay")

[ericantonio]

Yep, the dot is small but I don't use it on things far away from the camera. And, yes, I focus on the quality of the dot. It's not that hard to see clearly with a loupe. Think of it like focusing on grain when doing enlargements in the darkroom.

Ahhh, that's what I was thinking. Like a darkroom mag.

[ericantonio]

Ach! Are there nae Scotsmen here?

Take the cheapest flashlight you can find and drop it where you want to focus.

If you need some tilt for your focus, stretch a string of Christmas lights.

Charley
(pronounced, in this instance, "Chair-lay")

I just happened to be watching Spectre on Amazon Prime. I can't wait until they go to that iconic scene. You know that road and the house where they have the shootout.

[Kevin Crisp]

I'm with Drew and Bernice. I've never given it a second thought and just use them. All my cameras have some form of Fresnel. On the 4X10 it is just a thin lightweight plastic flexible reading magnifier. Still no problem to focus.

[maltfalc]

rub a bit of grease on the center of your gg to brighten it up. not ideal, but it'll do in a pinch.

[ericantonio]

rub a bit of grease on the center of your gg to brighten it up. not ideal, but it'll do in a pinch.

Wait what? Ohhh, like vaseline it'll create a sort of lens like effect? interesting.

[maltfalc]

Wait what? Ohhh, like vaseline it'll create a sort of lens like effect? interesting.

it'll fill in the frosted surface, making it smoother, which means the light doesn't get diffused as widely, so it's brighter.

[ericantonio]

it'll fill in the frosted surface, making it smoother, which means the light doesn't get diffused as widely, so it's brighter.

Ohhhhh, science bit***s!!!

[Whir-Click]

If 4x5, nothing I've seen can hold a candle to Maxwell's HI-LUX Ultra Brilliant screen. I use it with a 150mm f/9 Germinar W and, viewed through the Horseman folding hood, have no problem composing and focusing with the camera in full sunlight. Bill supplies the same screen up through 5x7.

For larger formats, even with a Maxwell fresnel lens over Satin Snow ground glass, using a dark cloth is mandatory for f/9 lenses.

Fully agree, my Maxwell screen has been among the best money I’ve spent in large format.

[Doremus Scudder]

I don't have problems with my f/9 lenses either...

That said, here are some tips for low-light ground-glass viewing in general:

Get a dark cloth with Velcro or whatever that seals under and around you and the camera so you can get things really dark. Then wait; it takes more than 15 minutes for your eye to fully adjust to darkness, but four or five will do wonders. Take your time. Really, the number one thing that makes viewing difficult is that your eyes haven't adjusted to the dark or there is too much stray light under the dark cloth.

Use your loupe in line with the light path from the lens. This means that you need to tilt the loupe for anything off-axis. You can use a loupe with a skirt resting on the ground glass for bright situations, but in dim light, remove the skirt (or use a loupe without one, like I do always) so you can tilt it to the right angle. Yes, you need to fiddle around and move your head back and forth to find the frosted surface of the ground glass to focus on, but once you get the hang of it, it's fairly easy. And, the corners and sides of your ground glass will be a lot brighter.

In dim light, it helps to evaluate the scene without the camera in the way and decide on focus points for both movements and focusing (I do this in any kind of light). Then, you can simply concentrate on those particular spots in the scene and not deal with the entire image. Sure, it's nice to see that upside-down projected image on the ground glass, but it's not really all that necessary to see everything to focus.

Go out on a cloudy day with your camera, mount a lens and stop it down to f/11 or f/16 and practice the above techniques. If you get good at f/16, f/9 will be a snap.

Best,

Doremus

[Bernice Loui]

How to remove any grease of the GG can be an issue. If a Sinar GG is washed with water, the grid will literally float off the GG once soaked.

Bernice



rub a bit of grease on the center of your gg to brighten it up. not ideal, but it'll do in a pinch.

[Peter De Smidt]

How to remove any grease of the GG can be an issue. If a Sinar GG is washed with water, the grid will literally float off the GG once soaked.

Bernice

Which I unfortunately learned the hard way.

As Bernice said earlier, longer lenses don't have as much of a problem with viewing fall off as wide angles. F9 lenses aren't too bad. You can always add a reflex viewer or a bag bellows ala Sinar as a viewer. I occasionally do that for framing, but I usually switch to a loupe for fine focusing. Maxwell screens are great, but they are delicate and very expensive. I like mine, but if it broke, I'm not sure I'd replace it.

I did replace the screen on my Rollei TLR with an Intenscreen +. That was a massive Improvement. For 8x10, I just use a flexible page magnifier, a fairly course Fresnel. I just hold it up, sometimes angling it for affect. Frame....then I put it away to focus with a loupe.

[maltfalc]

Get a dark cloth with Velcro or whatever that seals under and around you and the camera so you can get things really dark. Then wait; it takes more than 15 minutes for your eye to fully adjust to darkness, but four or five will do wonders. Take your time. Really, the number one thing that makes viewing difficult is that your eyes haven't adjusted to the dark or there is too much stray light under the dark cloth.



sunglasses help.

[Bernice Loui]

There is more to this GG viewing stuff than brightest image on the ground glass.. There is the upside-down, reversed image projected by the lens on to the ground glass. Brighter GG image does not alone make focusing easier. If the 480mm f4.5 Xenar is used on the 5x7 sinar in bright sun, the GG image is SO bright, it literally can hurt the eyes to view this GG image... with focusing no less easier..

If the lens has high optical performance the image can literally "snap" into focus when properly focused.

Longer than normal focal lenght lenses tend to be easier to focus as a group, more challaning to focus as a group are wide angel lenses and more challanging when these wide angle lenses are used for dark interior images... with camera movements front & rear..

More challanging still are focus are Sorta Focus or soft focus lenses, differnt kettle of lens than the normal variety. These often have large full apertures (f4.5 and such), yet their large full aperture alone does not aid in focusing..

Point being, properly focusing the GG image is a learned skill & thing with those previously learned habits from using digital (mirrorless produces an artificial image for better or worst, this coupled with modern auto focus tends to mute manual focusing developent and skills related to focusing) or fixed box roll film cameras. This is much an issue of going up the LF view camera skills set, less about the viewing aid alone.


Bernice

[Drew Wiley]

Just the opposite of greasing a lens, presumably matched to a slicked-backed ducktail hairdo and black leather jacket in lieu of a darkcloth, what you more likely need is a coarser grind glass, or at least a more correct kind of grind relative to your specific format and lens selection. My LF cameras are equipped with Satin Snow glass, which seems ideal, though I tend to use Sinar glass for those monorails per se. Also, too high magnification of a loupe can often be counterproductive. When everything is right, it just kinda pops in focus at that particular point in the composition you prioritize. Hot spots are basically an artifact of very wide-angle lenses or an excessively smooth ground glass.

[esearing]

I have a flash light that lights up on the sides. In dark-ish conditions I will put it where I want sharp focus. You could also use a glow stick, especially in colder times when batteries may not power a light.

[Tin Can]

I am not fond of fresnel 'aids'

Occasionally I use a book reader (https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Magnifying-Magnifier-Newspapers-Unbreakable/dp/B00WRJMRWG) like this

But never trust it for final focus

I have 2 Horsemen 8X10 backs

One has OE fresnel on inside the other outside

[nolindan]

Sinar makes (well, made) a range of viewers for their 4x5 cameras: a reflex viewer with a magnifying binocular (as in two magnifying lenses); a board that took the binocular and used a bag bellows so you could look around the gg; and a loupe attached to a bag that fit the rear of the camera. The magnifying lenses on the binocular could be flipped out of the way for viewing the entire gg. The Sinar Fresnel made the view brighter with some lenses.

A DIY solution along these lines might be to fashion a tapered bag that attaches to the back of the camera, attach the bag to a loupe and put an eye-cup on the loupe.

I have a gg on an 8x10 that has clear unfrosted lines for the grid - the unfrosted lines give a bright aerial view that can be used for focusing. I think the gg was from a Deardorf.

As to cleaning a Sinar gg, yeah it is really, really easy to wash the lines off the gg. I managed to do it twice. What in hell Sinar was thinking of when they came up with this abomination of a gg design is a mystery.

[Daniel Unkefer]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52420108097_d1c5c48844_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nSbKRc)SONY DSC (https://flic.kr/p/2nSbKRc) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

IMO Monocular Oculars with Baggy Bellows are very underated gear. These are my preference for viewing with slow lenses. Here are two Sinar Norma ones (actually the one fabric baggy may be olde Horseman?? I love it, wish I could find more of these). The one at the bottom is for the Plaubel Peco Profia. There is a darn good reason why these were made available for these cameras. The Norma Monocular Rubber Bellows top right is kinda rare: Finally I just found another one, it's on it's way from the UK :) I can easily view the corners with the Norma Monocular rubber bellows. Good olde stuff

[Peter De Smidt]

I agree with Daniel: That type of arrangement works great!

One used to be able to buy Sinar bellows frames cheaply. At one point I used them to make my own viewing bellows, but any old Horseman or Sinar bag bellows should work fine.

[Tin Can]

Years ago I sold two 8X10 Horseman frames with the tiny screws $200

Almost sorry now


I agree with Daniel: That type of arrangement works great!

One used to be able to buy Sinar bellows frames cheaply. At one point I used them to make my own viewing bellows, but any old Horseman or Sinar bag bellows should work fine.

[Daniel Unkefer]

I just happened to be watching Spectre on Amazon Prime. I can't wait until they go to that iconic scene. You know that road and the house where they have the shootout.

Um, I think you're thinking of SKYFALL. My favorite Bond movie.