5x7/13x18 daylight processing [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Yourix

3-Oct-2022, 04:35

Hello everyone

My new Woodyman 13x18 is on his way and I'm preparing to shoot with it soon.
I don't have a light-tight room at home and tray processing is not an option for me. Till now I processed dozen and dozen of 4x5 in a 3-reels-Paterson with a MOD54 with great results and zero isue. I would love to process my 13x18 the same way, 4 sheets at a time, in the same tank.
20thcenturycamera (https://20thcenturycamera.com/products/ql1318-jp-13x18-quick-load-4-sheet-film-reel-for-jobo-and-paterson-tanks)produced a reel for that but it is sold-out (discontinued ?) and I think it is outrageously expensive for a 3d printed piece of plastic...

I think I'll start with the Taco method , 2 sheets at a time, but I'm wondering what are the option for 5x7/13x18 daylight processing nowadays ?
Since I already own 2,3 and 8-reels Paterson tanks I would prefer to use it instead of buying a completely new system... Not to mention Jobo Expert drum prices are absolutely crazy !

I'm OK to DIY if any solution exist, I can even 3d print... I already looked after it on Thingyverse but found only 2 sheets reel.
On E-bay somebody is selling a homemade 3d printed 4 sheets reel for Paterson-3 but they are in Mexico (I'm in France) and it doesn't make sense to me to order from the other side of the planet something I could print at home...

How do you process ? Any advices ?
Thanks !

Tin Can

3-Oct-2022, 04:43

Michael R

3-Oct-2022, 05:22

Bounet makes a 5x7 Paterson “B’s” insert. Not sure if it’s too expensive but just letting OP know it’s out there.

cp_photo

3-Oct-2022, 13:24

I use the Stearman Press SP-810 with two 13x18cm or 5x7" sheets at a time. It works well. I load it in a changing bag and then process in daylight.

koraks

3-Oct-2022, 23:36

Find 2" aka 50mm ID PVC pipe with caps

https://www.amazon.com/PVC-Pipe-Sch-Inch-White/dp/B00V67YKP2/ref=asc_df_B00V67YKP2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416771367821&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6477107802494129288&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022737&hvtargid=pla-905736615782&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=96633971489&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416771367821&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6477107802494129288&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022737&hvtargid=pla-905736615782

That would also be my suggestion.

I even wrote a blog about this recently:
https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/pvc-development-tubes-for-sheet-film/

I used PVC drain elements augmented with tape, 3D-printed caps and whatnot, but there are many ways to skin a cat. The 3D printed stuff certainly isn't necessary. There's a liquid rubber kind of stuff that I haven't tried but that I think Tim Layton used on his tubes. It's a lot easier and quicker than my method. The basic premise remains the same, though.

You can load the film inside any changing bag, pour in developer, cap the tube and then do the rest of the processing in daylight. Yes, it's perfectly fine to unscrew the cap at the end of development in broad daylight, pour out the developer and pour in the stop. There won't be any fog unless you work very very slowly.

PS: keep in mind the PVC pipe is generally NOT light tight on its own. You need to add another layer of light proofing to prevent problems; see my blog for an example of what you might run into.

PPS: if you're mechanically inclined, you could upgrade the drainpipe solution with an end cap with a light trap, so the processing goes pretty much like any daylight tank. It's still on my to-do list, but with low priority. I see you've got a 3d printer as well, so you're all set for it provided you can come up with a good light trap design. Opaque black PETG prints easily, is pretty light proof if it's a couple of layers thick and is chemically resistant. I wouldn't bother with PLA in a photochemical environment.

mpirie

3-Oct-2022, 23:49

Try and find a Paterson Orbital processor. It does two 5x7 sheets side by side or four 5x4 sheets at once.

Very economical on chemicals but sometimes hard to find.

Mike

Daniel Unkefer

4-Oct-2022, 10:52

I have a couple of 11x14 Unicolor Unidrum II's, and Uniroller. For over a decade I processed four 4x5s in the 8x10 Unicolor II 8x10 Print Drum. The 11x14 Drum will holds four sheets of 5x7, so we will see. Recently a bought a 3D printed four 5x7 reel, for the Paterson five reel tank, from a Guy in Mexico. I intend to test that as well.

The tubes look very promising too.

Bernice Loui

4-Oct-2022, 11:05

B&W king tanks, similar to Nikkor 4x5 tank from decades ago..
http://www.bw-king.com

Jobo expert drums work.. IMO, worth the cost. another "penny wise, pound foolish" thing..

Do consider the cost of film and all related beyond the cost of a single film processing item..
Back in the E6 days, a single E6 lab bill can easily exceed the cost of a new Jobo expert drum.. That was during a time long ago and long gone now.

Bernice

Vaughn

4-Oct-2022, 11:40

...
Jobo expert drums work.. IMO, worth the cost. another "penny wise, pound foolish" thing..
...
Bernice
I have to admit there is truth to this...especially if 5x7 is going to be a long adventure. If not for right now, keep an eye open for Expert Drums to appear for a decent price. I use a motor base to turn the drums (small cost and small footprint) I use both 3005 and 3006 for 5x7. Snag a 3005 -- that way you are ready for the eventual move to 8x10! :cool:

Bernice Loui

4-Oct-2022, 11:50

Decades ago, moving from 4x5 to 5x7 caused a film processing issue. Back then (circa 1980's) using a 4x5 Nikkor tank was ok enough, once into 5x7 the Nikkor tank was no longer possible. Tried various 5x7 sheet film processing ways, from tray to hangers to single sheet tubes and etc.. after wasting a pile-O-film and ALL that goes with wasting sheet film (lower cost and more avaialbe back then).. decided to get a Jobo expert drum after being given a semi dead Jobo ATL-1 (the automation parts were dead, converted it to a non-automated Jobo and still works good to this day). That Jobo expert drum cured the 5x7 sheet film processing problems good and done. During the era when film was well out of fashion, purchased a few more 5x7 Jobo expert drums as they were low cost back then..

No regrets as that Jobo became one of the better "investments" to process film. A simple roller base that fits and rolls with direction reversal works too. Negating the need for the Jobo processor. Key item is the Jobo expert drum.

If processing 5x7 film and other size sheet film happens not very often and not many sheets of film and none of the images made are of any importance, GOOD film processing might not be that importaint at all. Film processing becomes deadly serious once the film images become importaint to the image maker.

Bernice

I have to admit there is truth to this...especially if 5x7 is going to be a long adventure. If not for right now, keep an eye open for Expert Drums to appear for a decent price. I use a motor base to turn the drums (small cost and small footprint) I use both 3005 and 3006 for 5x7. Snag a 3005 -- that way you are ready for the eventual move to 8x10! :cool:

Vaughn

4-Oct-2022, 12:10

Trying not to go off-topic too much...the Unicolor motor base does have an auto-reverse. Less than useless with the Expert Drums -- due to the large diameter of the drums and the short duration of the change of direction, the drum does not even make a full revolution before the motor base reverses. I pick the drum up and spin it 180 degrees and set it back on the motor base as needed instead.

I disabled the arm that hit a switch inside the unit that reversed the motor every one of its rotation. If I was electrically handy, I would wire that switch to the outside of the unit and just hit the switch instead of lifting and turning the drum. Hmmmmm. A shocking idea at my skill level...

Yourix

4-Oct-2022, 12:47

Recently a bought a 3D printed four 5x7 reel, for the Paterson five reel tank, from a Guy in Mexico. I intend to test that as well.
This is interesting. I would really like to have your feedback on this 3d printed reels once you tested it.

Jobo expert drums work.. IMO, worth the cost. another "penny wise, pound foolish" thing..
I'm sure the JOBO work great, but the price is insane...

Daniel Unkefer

4-Oct-2022, 12:58

With my 2500 Multitank JOBO roll film drums, and the 8x10 Unicolor Print Drums, the unmodified Uniroller with reversing mechanism is mighty handy and has never disappointed. I recently bought another Uniroller cheaply (WOW they are expensive now!), and I disabled the reversing mechanism inside. Easy to do. I have a Chromega Roller too, that works a charm with my JOBO 3012 9x12cm Eight Sheet Film Drum, the Chromega also doesn't reverse. But I do have to lift and flip the drum direction by hand during processing. The 3012 is quite rare and usually uber expensive. Bought it on German Ebay and it wasn't easy to do but worth it. The 11x14 Unidrum is simply a scaled-up version of the 8x10, and will hold four 5x7 sheets. And the Uniroller works perfectly with the bigger Unicolor Drums. BTW the 16x20 will process process four 8x10 sheets cleanly on a Uniroller.

We used to call it "the poor man's JOBO".

Daniel Unkefer

4-Oct-2022, 14:44

[QUOTE=Yourix;1658327]This is interesting. I would really like to have your feedback on this 3d printed reels once you tested it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325157717708?hash=item4bb4e906cc:g:heAAAOSwivtiFara&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoIvoUrhTRfF6zUxuUup3h4u6A0RDLJLQ0TGAczMqM3O0w3f7tu1JqF5W3zgl1M4BdHdZI3LzZ15zYyrk13hw05MEr%2Bpuj9NBGmDlh19KKi0F0xClzS10F5XTFS6ONfss%2Bh3fodxviMfDJVjAHsJNL%2BF911QakZMTGc%2F1mqcAg7NydtI4GBRqKvNC4aTpKNvofIJPZqluqNt%2BCURpj66NeX8%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9Kpssz0YA

Here is the reel. 5x7 goes on smoothly, haven't tried 13x18 yet. I went through his feedback, one buyer uses Foma film, and says it scratches by other methods. Works well on his reel. So there is one positive. I fed on some perforated 5 inch Aerial film which is kind of thin-based, seems to load without issues. When I unpack some 13x18 I will give it a go, as they say.

unityofsaints

4-Oct-2022, 14:51

Wait for the 5x7 reel to come back into stock, it's worth it. And as for it being expensive for a piece of plastic - you've clearly not looked at Jobo prices yet.

Ironage

4-Oct-2022, 19:24

I tried the 3d printed reels for patterson tanks and threw them away. The center tube allows light to pass because it is not opaque. Not very practical, and hard to load. Instead I now use this: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/205757-20th-Century-5-x7-Quick-Load-Film-Processing-Reel-4-Sheets

I also use the B&W King tank, it is good but leaky and expensive. I prefer the patterson tank because it is lighter and has an accessory hose to wash the film in the tank.

Daniel Unkefer

5-Oct-2022, 06:53

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52406310861_3153a35561_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nQY3pP)5x7 3D Printed Paterson Five Reel Tank (https://flic.kr/p/2nQY3pP) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is my 3D Printed 5x7/18x24cm Film Reel for Paterson Five Reel Tank System 4. As you can see should be no light leaks, it uses the original Paterson Center Column. So you can stack on, a couple of rolls of 35mm, or a couple of rolls of 120 or a roll of 220 Shanghai. Pretty good for one run. That's four sheets of Kodak Aerographic Type II Perfed Five Inch Plus-X 2402 trimmed seven inches long. Slides easily into the four slots, easy to do no probs. Regular film stock should go on easily as well. But not sure at all about 13x18cm, it's a bit wider than 5x7, so we will see. Might not work? Will be fun to test. BTW he also makes 'em for the JOBO 2500 Multitank.

I bought just the end of the JOBO Washer, and made a screw-on hose connection. It fits the JOBO and also Paterson.

Bob Salomon

5-Oct-2022, 07:37

Find the old 57 Combi. Plan T and it takes 6 sheets of 57 and 12 sheets back to back if B&W. Inversion processing in daylight. Converts to other sizes as well or for up to 6 glass plates.

Yourix

9-Oct-2022, 13:39

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52406310861_3153a35561_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nQY3pP)5x7 3D Printed Paterson Five Reel Tank (https://flic.kr/p/2nQY3pP) by Nokton48 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/18134483@N04/), on Flickr

This is my 3D Printed 5x7/18x24cm Film Reel for Paterson Five Reel Tank System 4.

This look neat ! It would be super easy to adapt it for 13x18 by tweaking the lenght of the central pipe...
I think I'll try to copy it and print one myself...

But for now I found 2 Simma-color print drums + the motor base for 30€ and bought it. The larger drum can hold four 13x18 and even tough it is designed for RA4 color prints it's worth trying it.

Thanks to everyone for your precious feedbacks and advices

Ironage

10-Oct-2022, 05:06

The problem is the white center pipe which requires you to leave the lid on to prevent the film being exposed. I can not be used with water stop for same reason.

Rick A

10-Oct-2022, 05:08

I'm quite content to process a pair of 5x7 negatives at a time in my Unicolor drums with a self reversing Uniroller base I have four 8x10 drums and can handle 4x5 through 8x10 negatives, I also have a pair of 11x14 drums sitting in a box somewhere. I down sized from a Jobo CPE-2 w/lift and a ton of accessories years ago and am happy I did. Keeping it simple.

Fred L

10-Oct-2022, 13:52

If you can save up for the Jobo 3006, that would be ideal. Otherwise my suggestion would be to find Simma 8x10 processing and end caps for daylight processing. I used this for 8x10 for a long time and now use the caps with ABS tubes for processing 7x17 film.

Carl J

12-Oct-2022, 13:55

re. "poor man's JOBO": When processing 4 sheets of 8x10 in the 16x20 Unicolor drum what do you use to separate the sheets vertically from each other? I have one of the little rubber separators but it's deteriorating (might have tried it once with 4x5 film in the 8x10 drum); also do you have any problems scratching film sliding it in-and-out to the lower half of the drum?

Also, do you have any problems with leaky caps with the Unicolor drums? I've traced the original 'seals' onto x-ray film and cut out replacements, a bit tedious and can work for a time but not the greatest solution.

Thanks.

With my 2500 Multitank JOBO roll film drums, and the 8x10 Unicolor Print Drums, the unmodified Uniroller with reversing mechanism is mighty handy and has never disappointed. I recently bought another Uniroller cheaply (WOW they are expensive now!), and I disabled the reversing mechanism inside. Easy to do. I have a Chromega Roller too, that works a charm with my JOBO 3012 9x12cm Eight Sheet Film Drum, the Chromega also doesn't reverse. But I do have to lift and flip the drum direction by hand during processing. The 3012 is quite rare and usually uber expensive. Bought it on German Ebay and it wasn't easy to do but worth it. The 11x14 Unidrum is simply a scaled-up version of the 8x10, and will hold four 5x7 sheets. And the Uniroller works perfectly with the bigger Unicolor Drums. BTW the 16x20 will process process four 8x10 sheets cleanly on a Uniroller.

We used to call it "the poor man's JOBO".

Daniel Unkefer

12-Oct-2022, 14:27

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

About half way down in this attachment, note the plastic clamps, from the dollar store. I made a few of these myself, but I've always used the rubber plug pieces to separate sheets in the 8x10 Unidrum, never had any damage I can recall. These should also fit the 16x20 Unidrum I would think. I've not tried the 16x20 Drums I have for 8x10 film, I am looking forward to testing it soon.

Carl J

12-Oct-2022, 16:01

Great info. I appreciate the link.

Thanks!

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

About half way down in this attachment, note the plastic clamps, from the dollar store. I made a few of these myself, but I've always used the rubber plug pieces to separate sheets in the 8x10 Unidrum, never had any damage I can recall. These should also fit the 16x20 Unidrum I would think. I've not tried the 16x20 Drums I have for 8x10 film, I am looking forward to testing it soon.

Joseph Kashi

20-Oct-2022, 17:08

B&W king tanks, similar to Nikkor 4x5 tank from decades ago..
http://www.bw-king.com

Bernice

+1 on the 5x7 BW King stainless steel daylight tanks and reels. They hold six sheets and work great, basically like oversized 35mm/120 SS tanks. The only current source seems to be the link Bernice posted. I found that they work best as traditional inversion tanks rather than using the built-in rotation mechanism, which sometimes causes 5x7 film sheets to dislodge.

These tanks can also be used to process 4x5 film when the 4x5 sheets are loaded on the 5 inch edge.

John Layton

21-Oct-2022, 04:31

Curious about the effectiveness of using the open tank, "lift and twist" method for the BW King tanks. Anyone?

Joseph Kashi

21-Oct-2022, 18:48

I never tried lift and twist as I do semi-stand with XTOL 1:2 and a few inversions and twists every three minutes with the cap on weeks very well with Delta 100. This helps control highlight blocking.

Yourix

5-Nov-2022, 10:07

Hi there
I did some testing with the color drums I bought...(Symma-Color)
With the small one for processing two 13x18 everithing was fine. Good result and even development.

But when I tried the bigger one for four 13x18 things where different : This drum is designed for paper and the inner surface is smooth except for some grooves where you can slide the dividers (for differents paper format). The design is slightly different than the small one.
I did a very classic development routine : presoak with about 1 liter, dev, stop and fix with 400ml (200ml recommended), rinse...
Of course the emulsion wath facing the inside but there was two major isue : The chemical and water couldn't reach efficiently the back of the sheets and there was some anti-halation layer left (green on foma 100) and the grooves mentioned earlier seems to retain the chemicals and it somehow afect the emulsion side by overdeveloppinglocaly (basically I can see a ghost image of the grooves on the sheet, border included).

I'm pretty sure it is because of insufficent liquid circulation between the sheet and the drum. Did anyone of you already dealed with this issue and how ? I think I remember reading something about sanding the inside of the drum with a a very coarse grit ...

(ps: sorry for my english, I reach my limit when trying to explain something like that... Hope it is understandable tho...)

Daniel Unkefer

5-Nov-2022, 10:16

I have a 11x14 Unidrum I have not been able to use so far, it came with no gasket. I just received today another 11x14 black Unidrum II, in perfect condition, with a gasket I can copy out onto brake pad material, I bought a sheet from local auto part store. I can say it works great making replacement gasketing on the 8x10 Unidrums. Use a sharpie marker to mark your pattern, then sharp scissors to cut the break lining material. It Works! and no leaks now ever with that particular 8x10 Unidrum II.

Also I will cobble up some type of plastic clips to keep the sheets from "riding over" during the agitation processor. That's about it, dollar stores used to sell those clips in the link for drying clothes on a hanger. Also Amazon likely source. Plastic spring clothes pin would work too. I hope the 11x14 Unidrum II will neatly process four sheets in a go when shooting 13x18cm sheets...... Know it works OK with 5x7 film

I can't use PMK+ in the Unidrum II, the pyro afterstain showed the interior ribs as "shadowing" I think this happened in the after wash cycle, though. I wash my film in the Unidrum under the faucet, works fine but not with PMK+. That's OK for now for me.

GuillaumeZuili

15-Nov-2022, 09:56

s389

16-Nov-2022, 06:01

The 20th Century reels are really good, easy to load and no flaw in process.
Jeff Perry is really nice and you can ask him for some special jobs (he did for me some reels for Film pack, perfect)
Another option as said before is the SP 810 for small batches.
Not a fan of rotary processing but its a personal taste.

I was using a 20th century reel for developing 13x18 and I always have issues with the antihalation layer because the film was touching the reel. I never found the solution.
Do you use it for 5x7 or 13x18?

Fred L

16-Nov-2022, 06:50

agree with those who suggest biting the bullet and getting the 3006, or 3005. The wallet is going to hurt in the short term but in the long run, it's, short of tray processing, the best way to process 5x7 imo. Am grateful to have the 3006.

Less expensive would be the Simma processing tube, and their roller base. Can handle 8x10 and would think 5x7 as well.

iml

16-Nov-2022, 07:02

I always tray processed 8x10, but then bought a Stearman Press SP-810 when he launched the Kickstarter, because I thought it looked like a good idea. When it went into production a few months later and I finally received it, I didn't use it for ages, I left it to one side as something that I was happy to fund, but I probably wouldn't find a use for. One day I decided to try it out, and from first use it's become my main way to process 8x10. I always tray processed one sheet at a time, so doing one sheet at a time in the SP-810 was no different, but it was great being able to turn the lights on for the developing stage. It will also take 2 sheets of 5x7 or 4 of 4x5. I just use it for the dev stage (I presoak in a tray in the dark, then load up the SP-810, switch the lights on to dev, and then stop and fix in trays in the dark), but it's designed to do the whole thing from start to finish if that's what you need.