Getting back into 8x10, would a cheap Intrepid Satisfy?

[gdi]

I have had several 8x10 cameras but stupidly sold them all in a weak attempt to downsize. Basically - started with a Kodak 2D, too limited with respect to movements, then a Calumet C-1, too heavy and it hurt whenever I dropped it on my toes, and finally a Deardorff V8, just right. I should have kept the V8 but now I realize the prices have gone up significantly and it is painful to contemplate repurchasing at the higher prices.

Also, I found myself using X-ray film mostly due to the high film costs of course, and did scanning and contact prints ( some Cyanotype as well). I found it harder to get good results with the double sided X-ray film, but again - so cheap. Could those with experience with the classic 8x10s as well as the Intrepid or Cheap Gibellini, etc., weigh in on the suitability of the new players compared to the tried and true brands?

Or will I be judged a buffoon for getting anything when my main intent is to shoot the cheapest film I can find? ( Note, I have shot a good bit of 4x5 over the years so I am neither a stranger or an expert with LF- but I do want fairly good movement capability)

Thx

PS, if anyone had a line on a good user Deardorff or comparable classic wooden field camera please message me! 😉

[Dugan]

You should have access to the classified section, since your join date is 2007.
If not, PM a moderator.
Look in the FS section, go back through the first 10-12 pages & see what tickles your fancy. :cool:

[gdi]

Thanks for sharing your insight.

[LabRat]

With 8X10, severe movements are not as pronounced as with smaller LF formats... Most all field cameras end up not having all that much movement "effect" than pro monorails or smaller formats... Field folding cameras tend to have less bellows draw that limits applications with different FL lens ranges...

I still hold on to smaller LF has more range to enlarge with standard (available) enlargers, but for alt processes, bigger neg is better for contact printing processes...

Tons of 4X5 stuff available inexpensive, but 8X10 stuff more limited... Beyond camera + lenses, lotsa other stuff needed like holders, heavy tripod, bags/cases etc + processing needs (you can develop a sheet in a tray, but multiples???) And a big rig to carry around shooting...

A camera is the entry level drug here... :0

Steve K

[gdi]

Thanks Steve.

Fortunately I have a big study tripod patiently waiting in the corner, along with a modified Kelly back pack, and a couple of light tight holders so if I decide on a camera and lens I should be able to be productive ( meaning I can quickly start burning more cash on film etc) right off the bat. I even have a Jobo processor and a big expert drum to process efficiently ( though I’ll need to test out some X-ray film in that drum).

[Alan9940]

I have both a Deardorff V8 and Intrepid V2 8x10's. The Deardorff is too heavy to backpack very far, but is wonderfully solid and a joy to use. The Intrepid can be carried anywhere I want to take it, but it's fiddly and what you'd expect at it's price point. That said, I'm glad I have both because each fills a different need.

[paulbarden]

I have both a Deardorff V8 and Intrepid V2 8x10's. The Deardorff is too heavy to backpack very far, but is wonderfully solid and a joy to use. The Intrepid can be carried anywhere I want to take it, but it's fiddly and what you'd expect at it's price point. That said, I'm glad I have both because each fills a different need.

This is exactly my situation as well, and my comments would be virtually identical to Alan's. For the most part, the Deardorff gets used only at home "in studio" nowadays, and the Intrepid goes everywhere else. The Intrepid gets the job done, but I feel I have to be more careful with it and pay extra attention to setting it, but it has yet to fail me in any way. Because of its light weight and conveniences, the Intrepid gets used far more, at least until I need to mount my 15" Lerebours et Secretan Petzval, which only the Deardorff can support!

[Alan9940]

The Intrepid gets the job done, but I feel I have to be more careful with it and pay extra attention to setting it, but it has yet to fail me in any way.

Exactly! I've always held the opinion that the Intrepid has its place, but I don't consider it a beginner 8x10 camera. I use Fuji A and C lenses on mine. The only "failure" I ever had was with the spring back when shooting dry plates. The short clips on the end of the spring would slip off the back making it a little more of a challenge to get the holder in/out. Then, I'd have to fiddle with the springs to get them back into correct position. This issue was later resolved by Intrepid by increasing the size of the clip end, which I retrofitted to my camera. All is good now.

Like you, the Deardorff is used when I feel the itch to use my HUGE Schneider 360/6.8, the Fuji CM 360, or the Schneider 19" Artar. I am especially fond of the way the Schneider 360 renders on film and would use it all the time, except that it's big/heavy with a front element the size of a small dinner plate! ;)

[Duolab123]

231361

[Bernice Loui]

Better question to ponder..

~Image goals.

~What lenses will be used with any camera choice. Camer brand/type and all that is not as importaint then the specific camera's ability to properly support the lenses needed and how the outfit will be used.

~How will this outfit be used (hiking, indoors, back packing-day trips, etc.).


SO much focus on camera weight/size.. what about tripod, film holders (each 8x10 film holder weights about 1.2 pounds then add their physical size), and all related to view camera image making? More often than not, the camera weight/bulk is merely a smaller part of what makes up the bulk of the entire out fit.

Light weight tripod trades off lens/camera stability and related which can become a very serious limitation depending on image goals and how the outfit is used. Been there done this with Wood -vs- Carbon Fiber -vs- Aluminium tripods.. Wood came out the highly perfered choice for too many reasons.

Given the goal of 8x10, size/weight of the entire outfit is not gonna be small or light weight.


Bernice

[Alan9940]

Given the goal of 8x10, size/weight of the entire outfit is not gonna be small or light weight.


Very true, but at 70 years young the Intrepid 8x10 along with Fuji A and C lenses plus carbon fiber tripod enable me to trek this outfit to places I couldn't dream of going with my Deardorff gear. Yes, there are challenges (especially with regard to wind) to using this lighter weight outfit, but they can usually be dealt with, and I come away with images that I couldn't otherwise create.

[Bernice Loui]

Personal solution for the need of using a view camera to meet image making needs, go down film size to 120 roll film. Don't trek or hike or camp or ... no real interest in making those types of images or experiences..

What cannot be trade off, lens choice and the camera's ability to do as required. Same applies to tripod/tripod head or why the woodiee tripod after doing rounds with Alum & CF..

Have about zero tolerance for a camera that cannot do as required with ease, precision, accuracy and stability. Life is too short for frustrations and struggles like this. Make each and every film frame count greatly reduces film cost and film waste. 120 roll at 6x9 gives 8 frames which is plenty per day.

Hope is one day to be back at using the 5x7 Sinar Norma and all related camera outfit.


It's all a trade off folks,
Bernice





Very true, but at 70 years young the Intrepid 8x10 along with Fuji A and C lenses plus carbon fiber tripod enable me to trek this outfit to places I couldn't dream of going with my Deardorff gear. Yes, there are challenges (especially with regard to wind) to using this lighter weight outfit, but they can usually be dealt with, and I come away with images that I couldn't otherwise create.

[Duolab123]

Personal solution for the need of using a view camera to meet image making needs, go down film size to 120 roll film. Don't trek or hike or camp or ... no real interest in making those types of images or experiences..

What cannot be trade off, lens choice and the camera's ability to do as required. Same applies to tripod/tripod head or why the woodiee tripod after doing rounds with Alum & CF..

Have about zero tolerance for a camera that cannot do as required with ease, precision, accuracy and stability. Life is too short for frustrations and struggles like this. Make each and every film frame count greatly reduces film cost and film waste. 120 roll at 6x9 gives 8 frames which is plenty per day.

Hope is one day to be back at using the 5x7 Sinar Norma and all related camera outfit.


It's all a trade off folks,
Bernice

I've really been shooting my Fuji 6x9 rangefinders a lot. 4x5 Crown Graphic is nice to carry, I use the rangefinder. I have a Deardorff V8, it rarely gets out of the house these days.

[ic-racer]

I was going to write to just get another Deardorff, but after looking at the Interpid 8x10 website and seeing the price, I think there is a lot of value there. Obviously you know how to use an 8x10 and can see the same pictures of the camera. Unless someone comes on here and says it fell apart in their hands, I'd seriously consider the Interpid.

[Alan9940]

Personal solution for the need of using a view camera to meet image making needs, go down film size to 120 roll film.

For me, using an 8x10 is a desire not a need. As a matter of fact, it's my favorite format! For 40 years now, I've never tired of shooting this format or the resulting contact prints that can be made when done by a sensitive/skilled worker. In general, I too, prefer precision in my cameras, but the Intrepid (though a bit fiddly) enables me to make images I otherwise wouldn't get. Personally, I'm willing to make that trade off.

[Ben Horne]

Better question to ponder..

Given the goal of 8x10, size/weight of the entire outfit is not gonna be small or light weight.

Bernice

On my backpacking trip this past spring, my entire pack was about 35lbs. That included 5 days worth of food, survival gear, and my 8x10 kit with 3 lenses and 4 film holders. Quite honestly, my lightweight 8x10 kit weighs less than some digital kits. It's amazing what's possible these days when you make the right choices.

[gdi]

Ok Ben - what is your lightweight 8x10 kit comprised of ? I guess I never had a lightweight 8x10 -closest was the 2d I believe but I’d never call it lightweight.

Thx

[gdi]

Thank you all for the advice. And to follow up on some of the excellent points - I shoot mainly MF - 6x7 Mamiya 7, and 6x12 Noblex and 6x17 Noblex and G617. So if I am hiking I probably use one of those ( or my new to me Pentax 645 which I think I may grow to love - first test rolls are drying tonight!)

I shoot a bit of 4x5 with a Super Speed graphic and have thought about getting a more flexible 4x5 field camera, but I really want to get back to the deliberate process and those 8x10 contact prints! So I will likely not be trekking far with the big camera - and definitely not with my Bogen 3051!

Yes, my heart, and appreciation for history, says Deardorff, but we’ll see…

[Two23]

I use a lightweight Chamonix 4x5, a 1920s Gundlach Korona 5x7, and a 1920s Kodak 2D 8x10. I shoot film, dry plate, wet plate. I'm strictly an outdoor photographer, mostly architecture and "historical" events, some landscapes. I've found that what camera I use depends on the reason for the photo. If hiking or traveling, I usually use the 4x5. If selling the photo I generally use th e8x10. All in all I've found the 5x7 to be perfect middle ground. It's big enough to print (or make tin type portraits,) yet still compact & light enough to travel or hike with. It's my most used camera. You might consider a modern 5x7 if you aren't doing a lot of color negs.


Kent in SD

[Ben Horne]

Ok Ben - what is your lightweight 8x10 kit comprised of ? I guess I never had a lightweight 8x10 -closest was the 2d I believe but I’d never call it lightweight.

Thx


On my spring backpacking trip, I brought the following:

Chamonix Alpinist X 8x10
4 Chamonix Film Holders
Fujinon A 240mm
Fujinon C 300mm
Fujinon C 450mm
Arca-Swiss P0 Ballhead
Gitzo 1 Series Mountaineer Tripod
Light Meter, cable release, stopwatch, etc.

The Chamonix Alpinist X actually weighs a small amount more than the Intrepid, so swap the far less expensive Intrepid 8x10 for an even lighter setup.

All of that fit inside an ultralight backpack made by Zpacks.
Here's a video showing what all I brought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDt-xWiM5sc

[gdi]

I use a lightweight Chamonix 4x5, a 1920s Gundlach Korona 5x7, and a 1920s Kodak 2D 8x10. I shoot film, dry plate, wet plate. I'm strictly an outdoor photographer, mostly architecture and "historical" events, some landscapes. I've found that what camera I use depends on the reason for the photo. If hiking or traveling, I usually use the 4x5. If selling the photo I generally use th e8x10. All in all I've found the 5x7 to be perfect middle ground. It's big enough to print (or make tin type portraits,) yet still compact & light enough to travel or hike with. It's my most used camera. You might consider a modern 5x7 if you aren't doing a lot of color negs.


Kent in SD

I havent given serious consideration to 5x7, but I will investigate - so far I have only shot B&W in large format.

Thanks!

[gdi]

On my spring backpacking trip, I brought the following:

Chamonix Alpinist X 8x10
4 Chamonix Film Holders
Fujinon A 240mm
Fujinon C 300mm
Fujinon C 450mm
Arca-Swiss P0 Ballhead
Gitzo 1 Series Mountaineer Tripod
Light Meter, cable release, stopwatch, etc.

The Chamonix Alpinist X actually weighs a small amount more than the Intrepid, so swap the far less expensive Intrepid 8x10 for an even lighter setup.

All of that fit inside an ultralight backpack made by Zpacks.
Here's a video showing what all I brought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDt-xWiM5sc

Impressive video, Ben - incredible that you can get the weight down to 35 pounds! The Alpinist looks great, but as a hobbyist with limited dedication to large format I think that is more than I will spend. The intrepid is looking pretty good - at least to try out. As a gear junkie, I really have to keep myself on point.

Many thanks - I am enjoying your videos and appreciate your contribution to the community.

[Tin Can]

Life is short, even if we make 100

Do it now!

[Peter De Smidt]

I had an 8x10MKII. It was a decent camera to use. I bet the new version is better. Every camera has it's quirks. The only way to really know if it's for you is to give it a try. You can always buy one, use it for 6 months, and then decide. If you sell it, you'll likely recoup quite a bit of the purchase price. Think of it as a rental....I had a few quality issues with mine, but Intrepid was quick to help.

[CreationBear]

As a gear junkie, I really have to keep myself on point.

Ha, I think most of us view GAS like my favorite saint and Church Father used to see chastity, praying for continence, but not yet.;)

At any rate, I'll throw another option out there: whole plate. You could do your own search about what others have said about the format, but a lot folks see it as a sweet spot between 5x7 and 8x10: big enough for a reasonable contact print, yet small enough to be covered by a lot of 4x5/5x7 lenses. The cameras themselves tend to be on the svelte side as well.

At any rate, good luck with your search.

[gdi]

I think I’ll go for an new Intrepid - it looks like there is about a months wait ( if they can stick to that schedule) so I’ll have time to try to source a lens.

Thanks for all the advice!

[Luis-F-S]

I have had several 8x10 cameras but stupidly sold them all in a weak attempt to downsize. Basically - started with a Kodak 2D, too limited with respect to movements, then a Calumet C-1, too heavy and it hurt whenever I dropped it on my toes, and finally a Deardorff V8, just right. I should have kept the V8 but now I realize the prices have gone up significantly and it is painful to contemplate repurchasing at the higher prices.

Also, I found myself using X-ray film mostly due to the high film costs of course, and did scanning and contact prints ( some Cyanotype as well). I found it harder to get good results with the double sided X-ray film, but again - so cheap. Could those with experience with the classic 8x10s as well as the Intrepid or Cheap Gibellini, etc., weigh in on the suitability of the new players compared to the tried and true brands?

Or will I be judged a buffoon for getting anything when my main intent is to shoot the cheapest film I can find? ( Note, I have shot a good bit of 4x5 over the years so I am neither a stranger or an expert with LF- but I do want fairly good movement capability)

Thx

PS, if anyone had a line on a good user Deardorff or comparable classic wooden field camera please message me! 😉

If you buy a new cheap camera you’ll loose money when you sell it. If you buy a user Deardorff you won’t loose money. It’s your nickel.

[Peter De Smidt]

I didn't lose much money when I sold my Intrepid.

[tykos]

If you buy a new cheap camera you’ll loose money when you sell it. If you buy a user Deardorff you won’t loose money. It’s your nickel.

well, an intrepid costs 520£+VAT, if you sell it for half the price you'll lose 2-300£. Not great, not terrible.

Latest Deardorffs on ebay went for something like 2000$-2500$: one could put up a decent kit with the price difference alone, you cannot compare the two...

[nitroplait]

If you buy a new cheap camera you’ll loose money when you sell it. If you buy a user Deardorff you won’t loose money. It’s your nickel.

All used equipment comes with a risk, and if you need to pay in order to address any unexpected problem, that money is not recoupable when you resell.

All new equipment will lose in value when you resell, expensive or cheap.
The loss on cheap may be a higher percentage but less in $$:
Sell your new $5000 Arca Swiss with a 20% loss = $1000.
Sell your new $500 Intrepid with a 50% loss = $250.

Some may prefer to loose $250 rather than $1000.

[ic-racer]

Probably make money selling a used Intrepid 8x10. You can't get them anywhere used or new. If someone is selling one for half-price, I'll buy it. My daughter is currently using my rickety old Century 8x10 in school. I could upgrade her.

[Alan9940]

Probably make money selling a used Intrepid 8x10. You can't get them anywhere used or new. If someone is selling one for half-price, I'll buy it. My daughter is currently using my rickety old Century 8x10 in school. I could upgrade her.

I have a MK1 lying around not being used. If interested, PM me and I'll come up with a price.

[Daniel Unkefer]

World of Used Photography in Columbus Ohio has an 8x10 Intrepid in their showcase.

https://www.worldofusedphotography.com/

[Serge S]

I've been reading this thread with great interest –
As the reason I got into LF was I really like the look of 8x10.
But the weight with all the extras was too much for me. A light camera would mean lighter tripod - that would help in the equation.
Curious if my existing lens would work on the 8x10 intrepid? It's the 12" commercial ektar?
Is it too heavy?
Thanks!

[Alan9940]

Curious if my existing lens would work on the 8x10 intrepid? It's the 12" commercial ektar?


IMO, questionable on the MK1, but probably doable on the MKII or MKIII. Hopefully, an Intrepid 8x10 user with similar weight/size lens will chime in.

[Serge S]

IMO, questionable on the MK1, but probably doable on the MKII or MKIII. Hopefully, an Intrepid 8x10 user with similar weight/size lens will chime in.

Thanks!

[acrobatic_citron]

the UK VAT is aready included in the £520 and a quick google shows no import duty from UK into US under $800! score!

[Peter De Smidt]

IMO, questionable on the MK1, but probably doable on the MKII or MKIII. Hopefully, an Intrepid 8x10 user with similar weight/size lens will chime in.

Should be fine with a MkII or later.

[John Kasaian]

If you want a classic, look for a Century Universal. Much lighter than a 'dorff. Also the Tachihara double extension is another svelte runner-up which might be worth considering.

[paulbarden]

I've been reading this thread with great interest –
As the reason I got into LF was I really like the look of 8x10.
But the weight with all the extras was too much for me. A light camera would mean lighter tripod - that would help in the equation.
Curious if my existing lens would work on the 8x10 intrepid? It's the 12" commercial ektar?
Is it too heavy?
Thanks!

I have the MkII 8x10, and my 12" f4.5 Ektar is too heavy to put on that camera. I have used my 12" Turner-Reich Gundlach on it, but its stressing the camera if I attempt to rack the focus out more than halfway. Its really not built for heavy lenses.

[Greg]

My first 8x10 camera in the mid 1970s was a (quite bulky) Burke & James Commercial view. Hiked up many a gorge in the Finger Lakes region of New York with it even in the dead of winter. Backpacked the B&J 8x10 outfit but only on day hikes. When I wanted to make overnight hikes and backpack an 8x10, I chose an Empire State view camera which I modified the lensboard to be able to tilt. I swear that it was the lightest 8x10 field camera ever made. Later on acquired an 11x14 Improved Empire State view camera which I also modified the whole front standard to include tilts. (Modifying the lensboard to tilt instead of the whole front standard worked out to be a better DIY modification). The 11x14 proved too large to backpack on overnight hikes, plus carrying four 11x14 film holders really added a lot of weight (and volume) to the pack. Years ago I switched to an 8x10 Chamonix... not cheap but once you use it in the field, there is no going back. I have used a friend's 8x10 Intrepid only once... honestly I wasn't impressed by it (I do believe that it was a very early model/version of the camera with no updates or improvements). If you don't want to backpack with the 8x10, I'd suggest acquiring a Sinar 8x10 Norma which is my present 8x10 to use from the back of my car/SUV. Once owned and used a Sinar 8x10 P expert outfit and was shooting 8x10 Chromes but I actually preferred using the Norma to the P and ended up selling the P. I had a friend who backpacked with a Raja? (probably the wrong manufacturer's brand name but it was made in India) wooden flatbed view camera and he loved it.

[gdi]

the UK VAT is aready included in the £520 and a quick google shows no import duty from UK into US under $800! score!

Exactly my thoughts…

[gdi]

My first 8x10 camera in the mid 1970s was a (quite bulky) Burke & James Commercial view. Hiked up many a gorge in the Finger Lakes region of New York with it even in the dead of winter. Backpacked the B&J 8x10 outfit but only on day hikes. When I wanted to make overnight hikes and backpack an 8x10, I chose an Empire State view camera which I modified the lensboard to be able to tilt. I swear that it was the lightest 8x10 field camera ever made. Later on acquired an 11x14 Improved Empire State view camera which I also modified the whole front standard to include tilts. (Modifying the lensboard to tilt instead of the whole front standard worked out to be a better DIY modification). The 11x14 proved too large to backpack on overnight hikes, plus carrying four 11x14 film holders really added a lot of weight (and volume) to the pack. Years ago I switched to an 8x10 Chamonix... not cheap but once you use it in the field, there is no going back. I have used a friend's 8x10 Intrepid only once... honestly I wasn't impressed by it (I do believe that it was a very early model/version of the camera with no updates or improvements). If you don't want to backpack with the 8x10, I'd suggest acquiring a Sinar 8x10 Norma which is my present 8x10 to use from the back of my car/SUV. Once owned and used a Sinar 8x10 P expert outfit and was shooting 8x10 Chromes but I actually preferred using the Norma to the P and ended up selling the P. I had a friend who backpacked with a Raja? (probably the wrong manufacturer's brand name but it was made in India) wooden flatbed view camera and he loved it.


Thanks for sharing your experiences! It’s very valuable to those considering a purchase.

[gdi]

Quick update - I ordered an Intrepid Mk 3 from the manufacturer. It looks like it will take about a month to get it, but I’ll have time to source a lens.

Also if any US based photographers are thinking about getting one - now is a good time. The price will be minus VAT and with exchange rate it came out to just under $450, I’m paying $44 shipping but that includes shipping for a camera case and a pinhole lens.

[Lachlan 717]

Probably make money selling a used Intrepid 8x10. You can't get them anywhere used or new. If someone is selling one for half-price, I'll buy it. My daughter is currently using my rickety old Century 8x10 in school. I could upgrade her.

3-4 weeks for a new one.

They had a (recent) slow period where I believe they were ramping up the MkIII.

[gdi]

My first 8x10 camera in the mid 1970s was a (quite bulky) Burke & James Commercial view. Hiked up many a gorge in the Finger Lakes region of New York with it even in the dead of winter. Backpacked the B&J 8x10 outfit but only on day hikes. When I wanted to make overnight hikes and backpack an 8x10, I chose an Empire State view camera which I modified the lensboard to be able to tilt. I swear that it was the lightest 8x10 field camera ever made. Later on acquired an 11x14 Improved Empire State view camera which I also modified the whole front standard to include tilts. (Modifying the lensboard to tilt instead of the whole front standard worked out to be a better DIY modification). The 11x14 proved too large to backpack on overnight hikes, plus carrying four 11x14 film holders really added a lot of weight (and volume) to the pack. Years ago I switched to an 8x10 Chamonix... not cheap but once you use it in the field, there is no going back. I have used a friend's 8x10 Intrepid only once... honestly I wasn't impressed by it (I do believe that it was a very early model/version of the camera with no updates or improvements). If you don't want to backpack with the 8x10, I'd suggest acquiring a Sinar 8x10 Norma which is my present 8x10 to use from the back of my car/SUV. Once owned and used a Sinar 8x10 P expert outfit and was shooting 8x10 Chromes but I actually preferred using the Norma to the P and ended up selling the P. I had a friend who backpacked with a Raja? (probably the wrong manufacturer's brand name but it was made in India) wooden flatbed view camera and he loved it.


Greg - I just noticed from your signature that we live in the same town! What a small world!

Here is an iPhone picture of Cyanotype print I made from an 8x10 X-Ray film shot from the deserted Collinsville Jamboree one Sunday morning ….

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52401642936_99bbb20584_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nQy7Nm)Jamboree (https://flic.kr/p/2nQy7Nm) by gdi2003 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69104028@N00/), on Flickr